Did the EU Grant Thailand a Fishing Ban Extension?

[webfact]

Did the EU Grant Thailand a Fishing Ban Extension?
By Prashanth Parameswaran

Thailand’s illegal fishing woes were in the spotlight again this week.

BANGKOK: -- On Monday, Thailand’s Deputy Prime Minister Prawit Wongsuwan said that the European Union (EU) had granted Thailand more time to end illegal fishing before reaching a decision on whether to ban fish exports from the Southeast Asian state (See: “EU Threatens Thailand With Trade Ban”).

Prawit said that the EU had given Thailand a further six months to curb illegal, underregulated, and underreported fishing (IUU), after giving Bangkok a “yellow card” or warning in April last year.

His remarks came following the latest round of talks between Thai officials and the EU in Brussels last week to address concerns about Bangkok’s fishing industry, whose reputation has been tarnished with instances of human trafficking, forced labor, and violence. Countries offered a yellow card are usually required to clean up their act in six months or face a red card which would mean a trade ban.

Full story: http://thediplomat.com/2016/05/did-the-eu-grant-thailand-a-fishing-ban-extension/

-- THE DIPLOMAT 2016-05-25

[EricBerg]

Well, the government cannot blame the EU for being impatient. High time to cleanup. Usual superficial stuff will not work. 6 months to show hard results. I doubt they can deliver on this.

[NongKhaiKid]

Big difference between saying an extension had been granted and no decision had been reached but apparently not a clear enough distinction for Prawit which is no surprise.

Another case of speaking first and thinking later causing the need to backtrack in the best face saving way possible.

The usual rush to put a positive spin on everything plus a comment on behalf of others which SOP for Thai officialdom.

[z42]

A nickel says Prawit was spinning BS as per. If the EU gives them 6 months, personally I think that's a dire insult to the people who are still suffering hellish lives since the last pathetic claims that the Thai govt would clean it up.

How can the EU even trust them do it right, why would they start now? The new charges added would imply that things have got even worse since the yellow card

[alant]

Another 6 months? is this right. No wonder Thailand continues as always when the spineless EU repeatedly says one day we may ban this but for now we will turn a blind eye.

[Caveat Emptor]

Big difference between saying an extension had been granted and no decision had been reached but apparently not a clear enough distinction for Prawit which is no surprise.

Another case of speaking first and thinking later causing the need to backtrack in the best face saving way possible.

The usual rush to put a positive spin on everything plus a comment on behalf of others which SOP for Thai officialdom.

Prawit didn't report what the EU delegation said but what they should have said, quite a common trait here.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Caveat Emptor

[Snig27]

BP this morning basically says he lied. Now that's a surprise.

[stevenl]

Another 6 months? is this right. No wonder Thailand continues as always when the spineless EU repeatedly says one day we may ban this but for now we will turn a blind eye.

Did you read the OP?

[Plutojames88]

The insidious thing about elitism in general is the self absorbed notion they are better than you and you must kneel down to that idea.

The manipulation of facts and distortion s make the truth harder to define.

The way westerners and our pesky concerns for human trash as they refer to peasants as, makes them reluctantly clean up some slavery...but only token gestures where eyes might look.

The great thing is the delusion gets shattered sometimes with reality.

And as time passes and their oppression continues eventually the referee will red card them ....game over.

But I am sure they only ever wanted to buy time and the Russians and Chinese will eat their seafood.

One audacious insult to our intelligence and good will was the Tuna contest .....

They really do think we are suckers.

It's amazing how a Thai can sit next to a westerner and talk about say the sun.

One knows what it is "" A themo nuclear explosion "" how far away it is ....93 million miles ....

And why there are seasons.

And yet the person with that knowledge is the more humble .

The other being taught they are superior .

It's similar here.

Why are we interfering they think?

Wait until sanctions hit ..the backlash will be enormous

[AlQaholic]

The Thai Govt., in this case for once, has done an incredible job to improve their fishing industry. There is still more to do but I must say I am truly impressed with what they have accomplished in such a short time.

I would also like to know, how many countries in the world has actually been "red-carded", i.e. imposing a trade ban on that country by another country or group of countries unless it is about sanctions against idiot regimes such as Korea and Iran?

I don't think the EU is powerful enough to actually impose such a trade ban considering the very powerful multinational food industry. How much revenue would be lost on all sides if such a trade ban was imposed? In my opinion impossible to do just like that.

Edited May 25, 2016 by AlQaholic

[Bob12345]

... unless it is about sanctions against idiot regimes such as Korea and Iran?

You mean countries where a lunatic leader takes power by force and then micro-manages every little detail while the country is slowly going back in time?

[Eric Loh]

The Thai Govt., in this case for once, has done an incredible job to improve their fishing industry. There is still more to do but I must say I am truly impressed with what they have accomplished in such a short time.

I would also like to know, how many countries in the world has actually been "red-carded", i.e. imposing a trade ban on that country by another country or group of countries unless it is about sanctions against idiot regimes such as Korea and Iran?

I don't think the EU is powerful enough to actually impose such a trade ban considering the very powerful multinational food industry. How much revenue would be lost on all sides if such a trade ban was imposed? In my opinion impossible to do just like that.

Why impossible to ban. The EU has done that before with Sri Lanka. Thailand is only 1 of the 98 countries that are certified to export fishery products to EU. The fishery products can easily supply by any of the other SEA countries that are in the EU certified list. The EU take the trafficking issue very seriously and the junta better heed those warnings, unless they just don't have the fortitude to go those on the top of this food chain.

[Plutojames88]

Some countries by law forbid the purchase of slave labour products .

See recent US laws passed through congress.

The evidence slave labour existed is found numerous ways .

Death camps within Thai borders existed.

Military involvement.

It's like saying be a captor now only rapes the hostages on Fridays it's somehow wonderful ?

Sorry that logic doesn't work outside third world countries.

Slave labour in any manifestation deserves red cards.

It can and will be applied.

The finger pointing won't work.

Consumers don't want to buy products produced by crews that are beaten and often not paid.

Defending Thais is a game that's played by elites and apologetic supporters.

It's also true of LM and hefty I prison terms being morally indefensible

[Plutojames88]

The Thai Govt., in this case for once, has done an incredible job to improve their fishing industry. There is still more to do but I must say I am truly impressed with what they have accomplished in such a short time.

I would also like to know, how many countries in the world has actually been "red-carded", i.e. imposing a trade ban on that country by another country or group of countries unless it is about sanctions against idiot regimes such as Korea and Iran?

I don't think the EU is powerful enough to actually impose such a trade ban considering the very powerful multinational food industry. How much revenue would be lost on all sides if such a trade ban was imposed? In my opinion impossible to do just like that.

Why impossible to ban. The EU has done that before with Sri Lanka. Thailand is only 1 of the 98 countries that are certified to export fishery products to EU. The fishery products can easily supply by any of the other SEA countries that are in the EU certified list. The EU take the trafficking issue very seriously and the junta better heed those warnings, unless they just don't have the fortitude to go those on the top of this food chain.

Correct...

The above highlights what I said before fact meets fiction.

Thai side fiction

Above statement the realty

[MZurf]

The Thai Govt., in this case for once, has done an incredible job to improve their fishing industry. There is still more to do but I must say I am truly impressed with what they have accomplished in such a short time.

I would also like to know, how many countries in the world has actually been "red-carded", i.e. imposing a trade ban on that country by another country or group of countries unless it is about sanctions against idiot regimes such as Korea and Iran?

I don't think the EU is powerful enough to actually impose such a trade ban considering the very powerful multinational food industry. How much revenue would be lost on all sides if such a trade ban was imposed? In my opinion impossible to do just like that.

"The Thai Govt., in this case for once, has done an incredible job to improve their fishing industry."

They have? What evidence have you seen that would indicate that? I'm not saying categorically that you're wrong but I am very skeptical that anything substantial has happened given the elements of Thai culture that prevent the wealthy and connected from ever facing the consequences of their actions.

And it's not like the junta has a great track record in this department.

[Winniedapu]

Because of the effect that sanctions would have on the EU businesses that buy Thai seafood, and the ripple effect it would have on the people who buy Thai seafood, I suspect this is a political decision - it's possible that the looming Brexit vote may me a card in the EUU's hand - they would not want to create a situation where the Leave crowd would point to yet another policy decision from brussels which affects Ma and Pa in the UK.

Might be wrong, but...

Some years ago (but less than 10 years ago, I saw where a prominent member of the elites (though for the life of me I can't remember who it was - possibly Kasit but it seems too intelligent a thing for Kasit to say) who said that Thai diplomacy has been superior to and more effective that the British and French and American diplomacies because the Thai diplomacy was based on 'delay and double-speak".

In other words, put it off until tomorrow when the situation may have changed, and lie in your teeth.

Here's a really good example of that. The problem is that Prawit is too dim to lie in his teeth effectively,. When he does it, it's always obvious.- always stands out and is always as obvious as a large pimple on the end of his nose.

But if I have no regard for Prawit, (and I don't), it doesn't matter, he has enough regard for both of us.

Winnie

[phuketandsee]

Big difference between saying an extension had been granted and no decision had been reached but apparently not a clear enough distinction for Prawit which is no surprise.

Another case of speaking first and thinking later causing the need to backtrack in the best face saving way possible.

The usual rush to put a positive spin on everything plus a comment on behalf of others which SOP for Thai officialdom.

Prawit didn't report what the EU delegation said but what they should have said, quite a common trait here.

Don't you mean "what he thinks they should have said"? Or "what he wishes they had said"?

[slapout]

It has been often repeated that a good liar must be intelligent and have a good memory so he can remember and repeat the same lie again at a later time.

It would appear that the most important qualifications are missing by many who are in the public spotlight on a regular basis, answering questions put to them.

Then add the old addage " those who feel insecure in their position, tend to hire /appoint people less intelligent than they are to work for them, thus less threat to their position" The result of these two human traits seem to have resulted in, instead of a upgrade desired/sought, by some,, a dummy down organization achievment.

Edited May 25, 2016 by slapout

[tuanku]

"But the EU has remained unconvinced by progress made thus far. Just last month, it said in a statement that dialogue with Thailand was “proving difficult” "

I wonder if this means that arrogant fools keep making public statements that don't reflect the actual outcomes of the dialogue in the hope of strong-arming the outcome in the desired direction?

[Winniedapu]

“They have not yet upgrade us, but extended for another six months. Maintaining the same position is fine, as the problems have been accumulating for long time,” Prawit said according to Thai newspaper The Nation.

This is a remarkably translucent but dishonest bit of sophistry. What Prawit says very clearly implies the EU had a choice between upgrading Thailand or extending the Yellow Card, whereas the reality appears to be it was a choice between extending the yellow card and handing down a red card, which may not have played well to the gallery in Europe for reasons unconnected with Thailand.

A very slimy little guy this one...

Interestingly, research shows that when deciding whether to like/trust/believe someone, an observer relies very heavily on how their visual physical appearance presents itself - it's a throwback to an earlier time when it was more important. So (for example) tall, slender and powerful looking bodies have been shown to be more likely to make management than shorter or tubbier men (a different set of rules apply to women, reasonably enough since a whole different set of emotional responses is in play when evaluating women).

Physical characteristics play a large role, then non-verbal communication such as body language and facial expressions (an important component of body language)are parsed in turn. It's all unconscious , automatic responses, but this is the reason (for example) that Prayuth always likes to be next to shorter men in group photos, so he looks taller by comparison.

In my opinion, Prawit looks untrustworthy. Analyzing my own responses to the man tell me that I perceive him to be short fat, ugly, poorly-groomed (hair, skin, teeth, eyes etc) and with a major speech impediment. A perfect dishonesty storm.

btw, did anyone else notice Prayuth pointing with his thumb yesterday? The image-management people have been at him, trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear I'll be bound, He still points with his fingers way too much, which is considered aggressive and accusatory body language, but he pointed with his thumb a few times when he managed to avoid being angry or irritated. Tony Blair was a bit proponent of doing that, and Bill Clinton, after the image-management people had got to them. It's an obvious but important attempt at deceit.

The reality is that pointing with your thumb has become a useful and reliable indicator of a lack of sincerity and an obvious attempt at manipulation.

Winnie

[Winniedapu]

“They have not yet upgrade us, but extended for another six months. Maintaining the same position is fine, as the problems have been accumulating for long time,” Prawit said according to Thai newspaper The Nation.

This is a remarkably translucent but dishonest bit of sophistry. What Prawit says very clearly implies the EU had a choice between upgrading Thailand or extending the Yellow Card, whereas the reality appears to be it was a choice between extending the yellow card and handing down a red card, which may not have played well to the gallery in Europe for reasons unconnected with Thailand.

A very slimy little guy this one...

Interestingly, research shows that when deciding whether to like/trust/believe someone, an observer relies very heavily on how their visual physical appearance presents itself - it's a throwback to an earlier time when it was more important. So (for example) tall, slender and powerful looking bodies have been shown to be more likely to make management than shorter or tubbier men, or skinner men of any size (a different set of rules apply to women, reasonably enough since a whole different set of emotional responses is in play when evaluating women).

Physical characteristics play a large role, then non-verbal communication such as body language and facial expressions (an important component of body language)are parsed in turn. It's all unconscious , automatic responses, but this is the reason (for example) that Prayuth always likes to be next to shorter men in group photos, so he looks taller by comparison.

In my opinion, Prawit looks untrustworthy. Analyzing my own responses to the man tell me that I perceive him to be short fat, ugly, poorly-groomed (hair, skin, teeth, eyes etc) and with a major speech impediment. A perfect dishonesty storm.

btw, did anyone else notice Prayuth pointing with his thumb yesterday? The image-management people have been at him, trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear I'll be bound, He still points with his fingers way too much, which is considered aggressive and accusatory body language, but he pointed with his thumb a few times when he managed to avoid being angry or irritated. Tony Blair was a bit proponent of doing that, and Bill Clinton, after the image-management people had got to them. It's an obvious but important attempt at deceit.

The reality is that pointing with your thumb has become a useful and reliable indicator of a lack of sincerity and an obvious attempt at manipulation.

Winnie

Edited May 25, 2016 by Winniedapu

[elgordo38]

Well, the government cannot blame the EU for being impatient. High time to cleanup. Usual superficial stuff will not work. 6 months to show hard results. I doubt they can deliver on this.

Yes I doubt there will be reprecussions. The EU like all governments today are all talk threats and no action. We live in a lawless world

[Jonmarleesco]

'Speculation has been rife as to whether the EU will impose a trade ban or simply extend the time given for Bangkok to fix its illegal fishing problem ... Prawit said that the EU had given Thailand a further six months to curb illegal, underregulated, and underreported fishing (IUU) ...' Presumably hoping the EU will follow the Thai government's modus operandi, then, by consistently moving the goal posts to compensate for its continued failure to enforce the rules.

[Jonmarleesco]

The Thai Govt., in this case for once, has done an incredible job to improve their fishing industry. There is still more to do but I must say I am truly impressed with what they have accomplished in such a short time.

I would also like to know, how many countries in the world has actually been "red-carded", i.e. imposing a trade ban on that country by another country or group of countries unless it is about sanctions against idiot regimes such as Korea and Iran?

I don't think the EU is powerful enough to actually impose such a trade ban considering the very powerful multinational food industry. How much revenue would be lost on all sides if such a trade ban was imposed? In my opinion impossible to do just like that.

Thailand, contrary to what the likes of Prawit would like (and like everyone else) to believe, is a tiny spoke in one wheel. Thailand needs the EU a great deal more than the EU needs Thailand - or its seafood.

[alant]

Another 6 months? is this right. No wonder Thailand continues as always when the spineless EU repeatedly says one day we may ban this but for now we will turn a blind eye.

Did you read the OP?

I thought so, what did you see that I did not?