Koh Tao murders appeal reveals shocking new evidence suggesting unfair trial and wrongful conviction

[TheLobster]

'Panya didn't screw up', he was scared or scored ... 'He named two mafia figures'

[JLCrab]

'Panya didn't screw up', he was scared or scored ... 'He named two mafia figures'

If one day he had all the evidence to charge two mafia figures with murder and his management of the evidence was so lax that the very next day the evidence didn't exist, then he definitely screwed up.

Edited June 19, 2016 by JLCrab

[Khun Han]

He's absolutely desperate to discredit Panya because Panya named the murderers he's doing his little internet bit to shield from justice.

Panya did nothing wrong. His boss unexpectedly introduced corruption and overruled Panya. Nothing further that Panya could do. It was taken out of his hands.

[JLCrab]

He's absolutely desperate to discredit Panya because Panya named the murderers he's doing his little internet bit to shield from justice.

Panya did nothing wrong. His boss unexpectedly introduced corruption and overruled Panya. Nothing further that Panya could do. It was taken out of his hands.

The guy didn't even pass data management 101. I am not desperate about anything. All you have to do is read the two PBS articles 23 & 24 SEP 2014 and it shows how ill prepared the guy was to manage a case like this regardless of what his superiors did -- superiors influenced by the Mafia? NAH it could never happen on Koh Tao.

Every time the word 'unexpectedly' crops up it shows just how much the guy screwed up. He was dealing with the mafia and charging them with murder: TRUST NO ONE.

Edited June 19, 2016 by JLCrab

[Khun Han]

It doesn't matter who he trusted or didn't trust. As soon as his boss unexpectedly introduced corruption and overruled him, the matter was out of his hands.

You really are desperate to discredit him because he named the real murderers.

[JLCrab]

It doesn't matter who he trusted or didn't trust. As soon as his boss unexpectedly introduced corruption and overruled him, the matter was out of his hands.

You really are desperate to discredit him because he named the real murderers.

Every time you use the word 'unexpectedly' you show just how desperate you are to say that because he said on SEP 23 that the 2 goons are guilty, that is game, set, & match.

You yourself said this same topic that the Koh Tao family could put fear in the lives of Supreme Court justices in Bangkok. This guy should have been prepared that -- whether it was higher up police or the mafia themselves influencing their own persons at the lower cop level to destroy any evidence -- this guy should have been prepared and he wasn't. Such is YOUR desperation.

[JLCrab]

There is statement above that I, JLCrab, am 'desperate to 'discredit' Kuhn Panya.

In August 2015 the Matichon Group, owner of the Khasod newspaper, settled a lawsuit brought by the Koh Tao family in response to printing the allegations made by Kuhn Panya 24 SEP 2014 as also in the 23 SEP 2014 PBS article. KhaoSod English Aug 14, 2015 said:

“We have verified facts and discovered that the aforementioned news items were inaccurate,” a statement published in today’s newspaper read.

The Matichon Group is not a weak-kneed publisher and my guess would be that their lawyers asked, before settling the suit:

Is there any way that we can verify the truthfulness of the statements we published 24 SEP 2014 and say "We stand by our story as published and will fight any libel action against us" and the answer finally came back: NO!

So much for MY discrediting the veracity of Kuhn Panya's comments. My comments deal mostly that there was not sufficient protection of any evidence whether it be from Police superiors, the local Mafia, or a tsunami striking Koh Tao. One day the evidence was supposedly there and within 24 hours it was gone and if that is the case, it is \gross incompetence.

[Moonsterk]

Putting anyone on the ignore list like xylophone just did means he is not willing to look at both sides of the coin.

Yes we all know how the Thai justice system works and it's not up to western standards we expect.

But that does not mean we should close our eyes when members here have some interesting theories of what might have happened. Instead of just confirming that my word is the only right one , because I want justice for B2 since they are clearly innocent in many peoples eyes.

Reasonable debate is fine, even with people whose motives appear questionable to me. The only poster on the whole of this forum I have on ignore is 'Moonsterk' - who's posts I find particularly intellectually dishonest and unsavoury. I generally don't respond to Crab, but his posts don't bother me enough to warrant being blocked (they're sometimes even genuinely witty), even though he is a self-confessed troll/wind-up merchant.

Dear Undecided Reader,

I consider it a badge of honour this member finds my posts must be ignored instead of countered with reasoned objections because I find the majority his posts to consist of very little but cheerleading for a flawed narrative based on lies- such as the deliberate twisting of JL Crab's words;

self-confessed troll/wind-up merchant.

He admitted no such thing, but indicated he enjoys reading many make fools of

themselves, not that it is his intention to force it. Indeed, is it not inevitable when one relies on erred information to counter his superior logic and reasoning?

[Moonsterk]

He named two mafia figures without conveying the slightest implication as to what evidence he had. All I ever said was that the manner in which he presented the case would be the same as if he had no evidence and that one could believe that there never was any evidence and that is still the case. You are the one who said he could now be a dead hero if he released any heretofore unknown evidence -- I said, if that is the case, he could have been a dead hero just as likely back then -- just like the Supreme Court justices you have said might be in fear of more than their careers if they crossed the wrong persons.

But it's really all moot point. If there really was evidence it is now gone and if the evidence could so easily disappear then it wasn't properly handled with the anticipation that mafia figures MIGHT try to compromise any evidence. If that ain't incompetence, I don't know what is.

Maybe he saw the "CSI LA" wanna-be investigator photo shopped Nom Sod nose pasted on the CCTV screen grab of running man/aka Wao Phyo? That one fooled thousands as it was designed to do.

Original fuzzy video in which the features are too blurred to distinguish ;

CSI La added facial features of Nom Sod and this is the picture shared hundreds of thousands of times on FB and elsewhere, not the nose is perceptively clearer now, and ski slope shaped;

Maybe Panya's replacement then saw the resemblance to this young man, Wai Phyo whose cheek swabbed DNA matched evidence found at the scene.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Moonsterk

[Moonsterk]

Moonsterk, on 17 Jun 2016 - 15:42, said:

canuckamuck, on 14 Jun 2016 - 01:33, said:

Considering the condition Ms. Witheridge was left in. I have serious doubts she was alive even moments after the attack. Also the position she was in, suggests she was posed. Would someone who came to her aid, leave her in such a manner? And why was there no attempt to get her help if she was discovered still alive?

Actually, I think you are just getting a kick out of winding up posters as a devil's advocate.

I think JL Crab is being accused of winding up posters because he masterfully shreds the logic lacking narrative many are putting out- and does it in a highly amusing manner to the interested reader who might even find his posts and/or the thread to have some entertainment value.

People do read for pleasure, topic notwithstanding.

Not everyone gives a damn.

Here's a thought- Hannah had blonde hair, she had dyed blonde hair with darker blonde roots.

Is it remotely possible the hair in her hand have been..... hers?

As far as "suggested" Witheridge was left posed. It really is far more likely she engaged in a sexual encounter-perhaps forced, perhaps even consensual with Miller, and then a secondary forced assault which might have occurred after she was beaten unconscious- as the initial confession stated, and simply left in the position.

It was stated in court witness testimony that the blonde hair found in Hannah's hand was not hers, or David Miller's, or either of the two accused. What part of that do you not understand?

Your constant references to Hannah and David being about to engage in sex or being engaged in sex on the beach that night has already earned you a rebuke from the Miller family via facebook. Give it a rest, please.

Maybe that witness was wrong. So much else is claimed to be wrong in the DNA evidence, but a blonde hair couldn't be? How do you ascertain some evidence testimony is correct, but some is not?

As for the Miller alleged rebuke- regrettable but I'd tell them how I've defended them against libel and attacks claiming the only reason they accepted the verdict is they have "vested interests.... were paid off, etc. etc."

Ms Witheridge was an exceptionally beautiful young woman, not sure why it's a given Mr. Miller would not be interested in a tryst with her. (GF or not..)

Regardless of the Millers, I'm entitled to my opinion based on the initial confession the couple were followed to a place where they went to be alone.

I remind the reader Miller was found nude.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Moonsterk

[Khun Han]

"One day the evidence was supposedly there and within 24 hours it was gone and if that is the case, it is \gross incompetence"

Nope. It is gross corruption.

And when Somyot personally took over the case, it was made clear that anyone discussing the real murderers would be pursued legally. It's no surprise that large mainstream media backed away from the truth, as they usually do when told to do so by the current regime.

You just want history re-written, the same as the real murderers and their corrupt agents. Panya named two of them, they quickly got their money and political and business connections working, and Panya's case was sabotaged by corruption less than 24 hours later.

[Moonsterk]

If I hadn't been personally attacked on so many levels, even threatened with violence, I too probably would have gone on believing their innocence, having never really stood back and looked at what was being said, and how it lacked a basis in facts, it was just crap being regurgitated.

I find accusing someone of murder with no more evidence than a photo shopped nose on a pic to be objectionable- and within this nation, is it not technically a criminal offense?

Yes, you do have a history of being personally attacked, and not just on this forum. Perhaps you have never really stood back to look at your attitude, as well as what you have said and how it lacked basis in facts, it is just crap being regurgitated.

I find convicting someone of murder and sentencing them to death on no more than unverifiable evidence to be objectionable…...

…… especially in the face of evidence that could implicate certain others being ignored.

So you believe my attitude, which is basically the same attitude of every other contributor to this conversation ( I'm right, you're wrong) is a worthy basis for personal attacks, and threats of violence.

Pasting a nose on a screen grab is not evidence. Having the owner of a bar and his brother questioned ( not arrested) in a murder case is not evidence.

I think your posts are regurgitating BS specifically CSI La's FB lies, the ones with a basis in revenge against the Tuvichien family.

I think disreputable media such as Samui Times and Andrew Drummond are spreading complete lies by way of twisted facts and assumptions and those lies are called facts and used to spread more lies right here on this forum.

Let's have facts, by all means...

Having your DNA found in a victim is evidence.

Making a confession and telling how it happened that fits with known facts (even if later rescinded) is evidence of involvement.

A timeline regarding one's whereabouts early morning hours of Sept 14, 2014 that changes with the tides is evidence of lying.

DNA

Confession

Lying

Seems obvious to me, (and possibly the undecided reader,) that's the real reason for the ad hominem. When you cannot counter an argument - attack.

Drivel....fruitloop.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Moonsterk

[JLCrab]

Matichon settled their libel case because they were unable to prove that any of the allegations Panya made and that they printed occurred at least on Planet Earth. That is history.

However corruption might have compromised the primary evidence, not having some sort of back-up copy is incompetence. But as I've said before and you obviously feel is an attempt to discredit, saying that there is no evidence because of corruption is the same net outcome as if there never was any evidence.

But all this 'desperate attempt to discredit' stuff happened nearly 2 years ago -- it is old news and nobody at least on the defense has paid it any note that Panya said this or that before he was summarily removed from the case.

Edited June 20, 2016 by JLCrab

[Moonsterk]

Matichon settled their libel case because they were unable to prove that any of the allegations Panya made and that they printed occurred at least on Planet Earth. That is history.

heck, for all we know, in thoroughly corrupted [sarcasm] Thailand, Panya was tasked with the collar. Gotta have a mark if you want a payoff.

Maybe that's what he was really rewarded for.

[Khun Han]

Matichon settled their libel case because they were unable to prove that any of the allegations Panya made and that they printed occurred at least on Planet Earth. That is history.

In view of the fact that Panya had been muzzled by corrupt forces from higher up, Matchicon would have found it impossible to defend their case even though their story was essentially true.

[Moonsterk]

Matichon settled their libel case because they were unable to prove that any of the allegations Panya made and that they printed occurred at least on Planet Earth. That is history.

However corruption might have compromised the primary evidence, not having some sort of back-up copy is incompetence. But as I've said before and you obviously feel is an attempt to discredit, saying that there is no evidence because of corruption is the same net outcome as if there never was any evidence.

But all this 'desperate attempt to discredit' stuff happened nearly 2 years ago -- it is old news and nobody at least on the defense has paid it any note that Panya said this or that before he was summarily removed from the case.

Another thing the defense ignored from the FB BS campaigns (at least in the appeal doc) was the assertion DNA was missing and not offered for retesting.

Just never came up. Is the defense really that inept? Or maybe they know something - like their clients are guilty.

Er, no thanks we like the swirling BS re the DNA no need to confirm any connections.

[JLCrab]

Just how many people are in on this collusion just to keep some 20-year old kid with a hormone imbalance from being charged with a crime that everybody knows he actually committed? Sometimes you write like you have transcripts of all these planning and scheming meetings ... that someone on the inside provides you with leaks. How do you know what Somyot told people to do or not do or threatened people with if they stepped out of line and for what? Just where do you get this stuff?

Edited June 20, 2016 by JLCrab

[Moonsterk]

^ Some of the more extremist versions have the conspiracy it going all the way up to a former Democratic Deputy Prime Minister.

One of the more, er.... obnoxious FB posters has taken to posting illegal content on community pages- not clear if he believes it or is just trying to get people arrested. Probably both.

Upper echelons of police, an entire police testing lab...prosecutors....roti makers. All to protect a third rate beach community leader's son.

[Khun Han]

"Just how many people are in on this collusion"

As many as it takes for a fabulously rich and well-connected family to enable two of it's members to get away with murder.

[JLCrab]

"Just how many people are in on this collusion"

As many as it takes for a fabulously rich and well-connected family to enable two of it's members to get away with murder.

Right ... and not a peep out of any of 'em because Somyot is watching.

Edited June 20, 2016 by JLCrab

[Moonsterk]

Just how rich are the Tuvichiens? I mean after all, they do live on Koh- Tao, can't get much more backwater than that.

And if we are to believe the narrative, dozens of police, including the erstwhile head Panya and Somyot, testing lab staff, etc etc as mentioned above are in on the conspiracy, that would would need millions of dollars it seems to shut it all up- and pay off that media libel claim too.

It's ridiculous.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Moonsterk

[Khun Han]

"Just how many people are in on this collusion"

As many as it takes for a fabulously rich and well-connected family to enable two of it's members to get away with murder.

Right ... and not a peep out of any of 'em because Somyot is watching.

Him and others. Maybe you are getting up to speed.

[Moonsterk]

Oblivious to sarcasm has never been a convincing tactic, either- to the undecided reader.

[JLCrab]

I've been up to speed for a long time in that people on here can propose detailed speculations and scenarios as to what happened and if the didn't happen all, the outcome would be just the same.

Like the one guy's explanations as to why no one in UK that may have seen The Kid and the late Ms. Witheridge at the AC Bar that evening. He listed reasons i. through vi. but he didn't list the reason that no one has come forward reporting such sighting because no one ever DID see such an occurrence.

So Matichon settled the case because they couldn't talk to Panya as if they didn't have other persons scouring all over looking for any evidence that to which Panya alluded and maybe Somyot told them not to publish any evidence if they they found any and just settle the case even if Matichon concluded that maybe such evidence never existed. But of course we are told on here that such evidence DID exist but it disappeared.

So another answer to the query above as to how many persons are in on this collusion and the answer given in one post is "as many as it takes" may be spot on because the answer could also be ZERO because there isn't any collusion and, other than a whole bunch of scenarios posited on here and maybe elsewhere, there never has been any proof or evidence that there IS any collusion.

Edited June 20, 2016 by JLCrab

[Khun Han]

Matchicon was being necessarily diplomatic.

[JLCrab]

Matchicon was being necessarily diplomatic.

Oh PUH - Leez Just where do you get this stuff?

Here's what I think: If the Matichon / Khaosod group had any way to prove the Koh Tao Mafia family was responsible for the brutal murders of the young Brits, they would put it ALL OVER their front page and tell Somyot to go F888ck himself.

Edited June 20, 2016 by JLCrab

[Khun Han]

"

Like the one guy's explanations as to why no one in UK that may have seen The Kid and the late Ms. Witheridge at the AC Bar that evening. He listed reasons i. through vi. but he didn't list the reason that no one has come forward reporting such sighting because no one ever DID see such an occurrence."

A bit like the beach party then. The one that attendees posted about attending on their facebook pages, that was going on near the murders when the murders were occurring, but then none of those attendees wanted to discuss the party. And it wasn't discussed any more, except by people on sites such as this.

[Khun Han]

It's not me: it's simple logic. Once Panya had been muzzled, their proof went with him.

[Moonsterk]

"

Like the one guy's explanations as to why no one in UK that may have seen The Kid and the late Ms. Witheridge at the AC Bar that evening. He listed reasons i. through vi. but he didn't list the reason that no one has come forward reporting such sighting because no one ever DID see such an occurrence."

A bit like the beach party then. The one that attendees posted about attending on their facebook pages, that was going on near the murders when the murders were occurring, but then none of those attendees wanted to discuss the party. And it wasn't discussed any more, except by people on sites such as this.

Not at all.

One is a fabrication of event that puts a person in a place he wasn't.

The latter is an incident relegated to the past, without much relevance aside from a relative proximity to a horrible crime.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Moonsterk

[JLCrab]

It's not me: it's simple logic. Once Panya had been muzzled, their proof went with him.

So you think Panya would be the only possible way that a group like Matichon would be able to come up with evidence to the 'real killers" ? They've already been stung by printing Panya's allegations -- I am talking about journalistically sound multiple sourced hard evidence and you have some notion that the only way such would exist is if it came from Panya. What a joke.

They would like nothing better than to stick it to the family, if they had the hard evidence, after eating crow and they would maybe just dare Somyot to get in their way.

But this is all hypothetical because there is no indication that there is or ever was any sound evidential proof that the KT family were involved.

Edited June 20, 2016 by JLCrab