Is this fair and reasonable?

[williamgeorgeallen]

there is a side to the drug trade that many dont know about. if you are caught with drugs you can 'make bail' at the police station and never go to court. it is important if you are a druggie or a pusher that you have the 'bail money' so that you can get out if caught. 2 of my younger thai staff were caught with yabba at a motorbike police check point. i met them and their mothers at the police station and loaned them the bail money. i told them it was a one off and did not expect to see the money again. amazingly their mothers paid me back in full, i guess they were very great full to not having their sons go to jail for years. i doubt the police really want to get rid of the problem as it must be a good source of income for them.

second point is single mothers not having any way to get support from the father. choices have to be made. life working long hours on a farm or in a factory, or break the law selling drugs in the hope of giving your kid a better life.

[hawker9000]

The fact that cops have an easier time catching users & street dealers than they do catching the lords is no reason to just ignore the offenses of the users & street dealers. Sure - it would be better if the cops were more proficient and effective in pulling in the jefes, and that's much to be hoped for. But in the meantime users should understand they're sticking their own necks out. And by spending their own money and maybe the money their families need to live on (and possibly money they're stealing from others) on drugs, they're not only ruining their own lives, they're funding criminal enterprise, police corruption, and even violence & butchery. They are miscreants, and while incarcerating them isn't the whole solution, it's certainly appropriate. To smugly call people ignorant who simply disagree with the idea of assigning responsibility when these bad choices are made, possibly gives us a big hint about the person saying it...

As for the bit about "making a better life" for a dependent, where would you draw the line? If a mom could make a whole bunch of money for her kids by carrying out a contract killing, is that also something that should be "understood"? Well, the damage that drugs can do isn't always that far from it! How about some other crime for pay, say, burning down someone's house? Planting a bomb? So no sale. Pure snake oil.

Edited June 2, 2016 by hawker9000

[ChrisKC]

She is guilty and deserves everything she got her fault not her school not what you call local scrotes!!!!. Her and no one else

I think I said that too, but her background, upbringing, education and choice of peers made it difficult for her to choose any other path in life.

And yes, I have been here a long time, it used to be a wonderful country, but it is not now.

I am not sure how many poor young people there are in Thailand but if we use the example of bargirls who seek to "better" themselves, we have about 4% of those who do so. My guess is that the percentage of young people who engage in drugs is equally small, leaving 90% of the so-called disadvantaged finding legitimate ways to earn a living.

[maoro2013]

I think that a reflection of what has been the punishment for well publicised hi so killers in comparison, has something to do with this story.

[ThailandLOS]

She wasn't sentenced to 5 years for using yaba, it was for DEALING yaba, big difference and her free choice.

I got no sympathy whatsoever for idiotic choices done by grown people. She got what she deserved as far as I'm concerned.

[Altalake]

Agree with Tonray 100%.

Soft on drugs? Spare me. TPI has no idea at all.

[Kabula]

What is your next silly question?

Should 21 year old adults who commit murder go to prison?

[Kabula]

What is your next silly question?

Should 21 year old adults who commit murder go to prison?

[Kabula]

What is your next silly question?

Should a 21 year old adult who committed murder go to prison?

I don't agree with all the laws, but I don't break them.

[tonray]

And for crying out loud...she'll be out at 23 years of age ! Her entire life to be lived. Maybe some of her customers wrapped their motos around a lamppost or tree and might not be so fortunate. She got a fair and reasonable sentence.

[oxo1947]

Is this fair and reasonable----TPI

.

Boy did you pick the wrong forum to post that question on--

Have you not noticed that most posters on this forum would rather talk about the death penalty being handed out a weekly bases---even for a pot smoker , as they sit on their bar stalls & chug away on their 8-10 chang's a night.

Recidivism isn't a word they want to hear--- facts & figures isn't something they want to read about.

.

She will be out on the street by the time she is 22---23 and probably dealing drugs again , (there wont be to many options left for her) nothing would have changed in her life other than the 5 years of brutality she was shown.

[sanukjim]

They do know this " If they get caught,they are going to prison or will be a policeman's informant and slave.". So what you are saying if they are lacking a proper education then they should be judged by other rules and laws with lenient punishments.How much education do you think the king pin drug dealer and billionaire Guzman received.only 6 years of school, so may be we should let him go ,right ? Do you want to take her place in the lock up for her ?

[sanukjim]

What a fool.Must be new here.

[orpheus454]

How many lives did her yaba sales ruin ? How many teenagers did she sell to who then stole from their parents, gave up educational opportunities and made other's live's miserable hells. ?

Yes...it is quite fair for drug sellers. For Users maybe harsh...but for dealers...throw the book at them.

She hasn't ruined any lives except her own. Every single user is solely responsible for their own life choices, unless they're human slaves being forced to use the product, in which case the slave masters are the criminals, not the sales people.

How do you know that someone has had there lives ruined because the woman SOLD drugs to a young person who then committed a crime under the influence of the drug . Don't you think that that has ruined the person and his/her mum and dad lives as well

By this logic, when someone hits a pedestrian while driving drunk we should lock up the bar owner.

Is that a good idea?

[luk AJ]

there is a side to the drug trade that many dont know about. if you are caught with drugs you can 'make bail' at the police station and never go to court. it is important if you are a druggie or a pusher that you have the 'bail money' so that you can get out if caught. 2 of my younger thai staff were caught with yabba at a motorbike police check point. i met them and their mothers at the police station and loaned them the bail money. i told them it was a one off and did not expect to see the money again. amazingly their mothers paid me back in full, i guess they were very great full to not having their sons go to jail for years. i doubt the police really want to get rid of the problem as it must be a good source of income for them.

second point is single mothers not having any way to get support from the father. choices have to be made. life working long hours on a farm or in a factory, or break the law selling drugs in the hope of giving your kid a better life.

Same happened with one of our delivery drivers, I fired him on the spot.

[robertson468]

How many lives did her yaba sales ruin ? How many teenagers did she sell to who then stole from their parents, gave up educational opportunities and made other's live's miserable hells. ?

Yes...it is quite fair for drug sellers. For Users maybe harsh...but for dealers...throw the book at them.

She hasn't ruined any lives except her own. Every single user is solely responsible for their own life choices, unless they're human slaves being forced to use the product, in which case the slave masters are the criminals, not the sales people.

Sorry, this is a very naive comment. For the youngster the most important thing is what their peers are doing and if they are into the drug scene, many will follow suit. However, if drugs are not readily available..................I am sure from now on you can work it out?

[Thaidream]

While I do not condone selling or using drugs- I can understand completely why both occur. Many people have lost hope- they have tried everything legal and nothing works. The situation in Thailand has gotten worse throughout the years. The salary level for non educated workers in

Thailand as laborers or factory workers is 300 Baht per day. No one can live on this wage and unless one has friends who can share expense or family help- life becomes unbearable. Even with help- it is only slightly tolerable

Let's not be too hard on people like this. Many foreigners here on this very board use alcohol excessively for whatever reason every day. I do not condemn you nor do I condemn those who use drugs. Who I condemn are the wealthy factory owners; business conglomerates; and governments who refuse to take any responsibility for the conditions they have set in motion which contribute to the hopelessness of people. They have the power to raise wages to a livable level or provide tax relief or programs that would give people a chance to succeed. They have not because they are corrupt and greedy.

If I had the power, I would legalize all drugs. At the same time I would put in the mechanisms that would force business and government to provide the necessary levels of salary and assistance to make sure people had opportunities. I would seize assets of the corrupt wealthy and corrupt politicians and redistribute it to the poor. In addition, if drugs were legal we would not need the police being used as they are now; jails overcrowded with hopeless people; and drug cartels using their money and influence to corrupt all levels of life.

Is the sentence fair- absolutely not. The real crime is why a person cannot get adequate healthcare; an education that prepares them for a job; a job that pays a living wage; a government that cares and takes care of its people; and a society that understands what is really the cause of so much hopelessness. This isn't just Thailand- it is Worldwide and it is not sustainable.

[khunPer]

OP refers to Sakdina – there is a good article here: The Last Orientals – The Thai Sakdina System

...Sakdina was legally abolished as late as the 1932 coup, but refused to go away. Even the Fascist Dictator Phiboon Songkran Thailand’s most powerful ruler had a shot at ending it, but failed, discovering almost 800 years of history, deference and effeteness doesn’t pass easily and especially not in Thailand. There’s a saying “understand Sakdina and you understand Thailand”...

[F4UCorsair]

Ya play the game....ya take the knocks.

If they'd put some effort into legal work, they'd be OK.

[F4UCorsair]

How many lives did her yaba sales ruin ? How many teenagers did she sell to who then stole from their parents, gave up educational opportunities and made other's live's miserable hells. ?

Yes...it is quite fair for drug sellers. For Users maybe harsh...but for dealers...throw the book at them.

She hasn't ruined any lives except her own. Every single user is solely responsible for their own life choices, unless they're human slaves being forced to use the product, in which case the slave masters are the criminals, not the sales people.

Responsible for life choices?? So was she and she made the WRONG choice.

Can you see that? They ALL, including this dealer, had life choices.

[mcfish]

Same here, no sympathy for drug dealers, but i get the point your raising. She'd have been better of running over & killing 3 cyclists - that only gets you 2 years

I think the major difference is greed. Profiting from destroying lives intentionally is different to a drunk losing control of a car , one is premeditated the other is just Dumb but I can see why drug dealing attracts a harsher sentance

[Thaidream]

Choices to do what? Maybe get a job at Lotus mopping floors; or at a factory gluing shoes together and get paid 300 Baht per day or if lucky 7-8000 per month. If you have a child and the father runs away and provides nothing which is common in Thailand how do you pay rent; eat a sustainable diet and take care of your child? Even in the West, the nanny states cannot get fathers to pay for their children. So, you soon realize how hopeless life becomes. You then try yaba to stay awake and maybe get some overtime. Soon, you start to think that if I just had a little more money- my life and child's life could be better. So you become a pusher- well who am I hurting- others like me need the rush to work and survive. You rationalize because your choices are limited. Even a college graduate in Thailand starts at a salary well below what it takes to advance economically but they have a shot. If you don't sell drugs, you enter the entertainment industry and destroy your body and soul.

It is so easy for us to sit in our nice homes or apartments with plenty to eat and drink and criticize those who are lesser. However, if you really look around and open your eyes you will understand why so many young people in Thailand are turning to drugs and prostitution. We keep saying there has to be another way; just work hard and everything will be fine. The truth is that while hard work is admirable- sometimes it is not enough.

[elgordo38]

This is not a Thai problem, it is universal. The jails all over the world are rammed to bursting point with petty criminals, most of their offences drug and drink related in some respect, the majority of whom pose no real danger to society; their offences tend to be against property. I've never understood the logic in such a ridiculous system but it is alive well and kicking in most so called first world countries.

Its a sure winner if your in the jail building business.

[TPI]

Be interesting the know the quantities she sold.....was it a couple of pills or was it much more ?

Talking to the prisoners (about 200) involved with possession and selling yaba they're generally done for having less than 10 pills, they were only partners of their partners (so they say!). While I'm sure there're a few "porkies" in there most of their stories ring true, for Thailand anyway!

[thaiduncankk]

I know a lady who got 8 years for shoplifting, albeit serial, then as she had jumped bail, she had 4 years added on for that offence, 12 years total !

[ukrules]

How many lives did her yaba sales ruin ? How many teenagers did she sell to who then stole from their parents, gave up educational opportunities and made other's live's miserable hells. ?

Yes...it is quite fair for drug sellers. For Users maybe harsh...but for dealers...throw the book at them.

How many lives have those drug users ruined (they ruined their own life by choice already) by tempting otherwise regular people into a life of dealing illegal drugs due to the sheer amount of users looking for suppliers of Yaba.

[Shiver]

I don't know of, and have never heard of drug planting on people or their property (it would come 'on top' way too quickly with the frequency, and there are easier ways anyhow).

I do know that the informant business is alive and kicking (supplier grasses user in order to stay out of prison a little longer and is given a quota to meet). If you stay out of those circles then you likely have zero to be concerned about.

Due to the nature of the business (police make money letting people off the hook, and once handed over to the prison it's someone else's money making opportunity), and that prison population now that are related to drugs is north of 70% and climbing, I think rehab would be preferable to incarceration. How that is done is a whole other topic though. That system might not get the message through and they end up where they were going to anyhow. It might make a dent in the area where wearing a medallion for protection, or believing they are unbreakable is unhooked and save one more life from misery.

[Myshkin]

How many lives did her yaba sales ruin ? How many teenagers did she sell to who then stole from their parents, gave up educational opportunities and made other's live's miserable hells. ?

Yes...it is quite fair for drug sellers. For Users maybe harsh...but for dealers...throw the book at them.

She hasn't ruined any lives except her own. Every single user is solely responsible for their own life choices, unless they're human slaves being forced to use the product, in which case the slave masters are the criminals, not the sales people.

What a load of crap. no dealers no drugs simple as that. Take away the source there is no choice.or opportunity to use drugs

So simple indeed! Maybe in your dreamworld! The method you defend has failed for alcohol during the prohibition.and for drugs all around the world in the last 50 years, even in countries with long jail sentences or death penalty.

[Myshkin]

How many lives did her yaba sales ruin ? How many teenagers did she sell to who then stole from their parents, gave up educational opportunities and made other's live's miserable hells. ?

Yes...it is quite fair for drug sellers. For Users maybe harsh...but for dealers...throw the book at them.

She hasn't ruined any lives except her own. Every single user is solely responsible for their own life choices, unless they're human slaves being forced to use the product, in which case the slave masters are the criminals, not the sales people.

How do you know that someone has had there lives ruined because the woman SOLD drugs to a young person who then committed a crime under the influence of the drug . Don't you think that that has ruined the person and his/her mum and dad lives as well

I repeat, she is only responsible for ruining her own life because she broke the law and will be punished for it.

In your presumptive scenario, the young person committing a crime under the influence of drugs is the one ruining their life (+ family), and the life of the victim (+ family).

And the same applies whether the product is legal or not. Any product in fact: alcohol, knife, gun, etc... If you kill someone under the influence of alcohol (intentional or accident) it is not the responsibility of the bar (shop,etc...) that sold you the product.

Products don't kill!

[wprime]

Same here, no sympathy for drug dealers, but i get the point your raising. She'd have been better of running over & killing 3 cyclists - that only gets you 2 years

I agree with what you're implying (I don't have any sympathy for the negligent), but the logic behind the law is that running over those cyclists is negligence, the damage caused by dealing in drugs is intentional.