China vows to reject South China Sea ruling

[LawrenceChee]

The UN sponsored Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague that is about to rule on the UNCLOS treaty in the Philippines v China dispute has five members.

The presiding arbiter is from Ghana and the Tribunal arbiters are from France, Germany, Netherlands, Poland.

CCP Dictators in Beijing have radically different notions on the law of the sea. To include radically different notions of the rule of law domestically and internationally. CCP does not like the rule of law as it continues to enrich itself by the rule of men.

Under the UNCLOS the South China Sea is a global commons where freedom of navigation is assured both on the sea and in the air above it. CCP however wants it to become a Chinese lake.

CCP in Beijing have gone so far with it that they've alienated almost all of Asean and the entire region from Japan and S Korea to India, all the while lining up supporters against the UNCLOS such as Gambia, Togo, Slovenia, Fiji and among a bunch of such others, Moscow.

Scarborough Shoal is the only place CCP Dictators haven't grabbed yet. It's well within the Philippines EEZ and Philippine sovereignty, 470 miles away from the CCP coast. US told Beijing not to go there because CCP missiles would be in range of Manila and US troops returning to the Phils.

So everyone is waiting for the PCA to drop the first shoe to find out if the CCP will drop the other one to show its defiance. If CCP does move against Scarborough it will know to expect a response which is of no comfort to anyone.

Can you ask your government to sign and ratify the UNCLOS and then come in trying to tell China to obey the international ruling under UNCLOS.

Or is USA able to interpret the laws in the way when they want to because they believe they are a world power ?

So they will ratify any UN agreements when they are ready and not when people ask them to ?

But in the meantime can butt in to any regional business almost like the war cry at Iraq into bullying all the smaller UN members to believe the USA that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction in an open deceitful declaration ?

The Executive branch of the US Government signed the UNCLOS.

Congress has not ratified it. The Executive conducts itself consistently with the treaty.

Beijing has separated itself from Asean and the entire region while lining up countries against the UNCLOS such as Togo and Moscow. Your Boyz really think they know what they're going! 5000 years and they've learned nothing.

Then why don't they just ratify it ? Why signed it and not ratify it ?

What's so difficult if they agree with it ? What about the Kyoto treaty when will they ratify that or the UN Child Labor act ?

Why does USA think they are above treaties sanctioned by the UN if they have no issue with the law and its content ?

Would it be similar superpower behaviour or is there a double standard because one is a communist country ?

[lvr181]

".......they act purely on behalf of their stakeholders, and that sure ain't any of us."

And who are their stakeholders?

If the U.S, was instrumental (alone or with others) in not letting your country being over run by China, would you not be a stake holder? Just thinking.

BTW - I am not a citizen of the U.S.A. in case you think I am being biased.

Sorry but the subject here is not "COUNTRY OVER RUN".

The subject here are Atolls and Reefs in the wide open ocean.

There aren't even inhabitants involved, unless it are Chinese military and workers, but none from the rabblerousing countries.

If these rabble-rousers had any brains, they would sit down with China (their next door neighbor) and workout a system of joint development, but no they listen their bosom friend from the other side of the world

Agreed it is not about COUNTRY OVER RUN. But the question was about "stakeholders" and who are they? Just trying to clarify another poster's very very broad definition of a "stakeholder, not being one of us".

If you understand what that poster means, then please enlighten me!

Are we not all citizens of this world and therefore (directly or indirectly) a stakeholder?

[Ireland32]

What goes round comes round. Why shouldn't China ignore this resolution ? Why should the US get so upset ? After all the Jewish supported US congress has allowed Israel to totally disregard UN resolutions over Palestine . The US are just upset because the Chinese now have the military ( and economic ) might to show the finger to the States.

Game over , world power domination is shifting, as it always does through history.

boloney...

[Ireland32]

The UN sponsored Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague that is about to rule on the UNCLOS treaty in the Philippines v China dispute has five members.

The presiding arbiter is from Ghana and the Tribunal arbiters are from France, Germany, Netherlands, Poland.

CCP Dictators in Beijing have radically different notions on the law of the sea. To include radically different notions of the rule of law domestically and internationally. CCP does not like the rule of law as it continues to enrich itself by the rule of men.

Under the UNCLOS the South China Sea is a global commons where freedom of navigation is assured both on the sea and in the air above it. CCP however wants it to become a Chinese lake.

CCP in Beijing have gone so far with it that they've alienated almost all of Asean and the entire region from Japan and S Korea to India, all the while lining up supporters against the UNCLOS such as Gambia, Togo, Slovenia, Fiji and among a bunch of such others, Moscow.

Scarborough Shoal is the only place CCP Dictators haven't grabbed yet. It's well within the Philippines EEZ and Philippine sovereignty, 470 miles away from the CCP coast. US told Beijing not to go there because CCP missiles would be in range of Manila and US troops returning to the Phils.

So everyone is waiting for the PCA to drop the first shoe to find out if the CCP will drop the other one to show its defiance. If CCP does move against Scarborough it will know to expect a response which is of no comfort to anyone.

Can you ask your government to sign and ratify the UNCLOS and then come in trying to tell China to obey the international ruling under UNCLOS.

Or is USA able to interpret the laws in the way when they want to because they believe they are a world power ?

So they will ratify any UN agreements when they are ready and not when people ask them to ?

But in the meantime can butt in to any regional business almost like the war cry at Iraq into bullying all the smaller UN members to believe the USA that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction in an open deceitful declaration ?

They are a World Power...

[Redline]

The time grows near when everybody in the region is going to reveal themselves and whose side they're on. No getting out of it. You either back China's territorial land grab or respect the rule of law. Let's see how the members of ASEAN line up.

Agree about China being a worry & seeing how countries line up. However the US is just the devil we know, they act purely on behalf of their stakeholders, and that sure ain't any of us.

Unless you are from an ASEAN country, you don't matter anyway. Every country acts for it's stakeholders. There has to be an enemy. There has to be aggressors. This is human nature. Besides, it's in the corporate interest.

[LawrenceChee]

The UN sponsored Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague that is about to rule on the UNCLOS treaty in the Philippines v China dispute has five members.

The presiding arbiter is from Ghana and the Tribunal arbiters are from France, Germany, Netherlands, Poland.

CCP Dictators in Beijing have radically different notions on the law of the sea. To include radically different notions of the rule of law domestically and internationally. CCP does not like the rule of law as it continues to enrich itself by the rule of men.

Under the UNCLOS the South China Sea is a global commons where freedom of navigation is assured both on the sea and in the air above it. CCP however wants it to become a Chinese lake.

CCP in Beijing have gone so far with it that they've alienated almost all of Asean and the entire region from Japan and S Korea to India, all the while lining up supporters against the UNCLOS such as Gambia, Togo, Slovenia, Fiji and among a bunch of such others, Moscow.

Scarborough Shoal is the only place CCP Dictators haven't grabbed yet. It's well within the Philippines EEZ and Philippine sovereignty, 470 miles away from the CCP coast. US told Beijing not to go there because CCP missiles would be in range of Manila and US troops returning to the Phils.

So everyone is waiting for the PCA to drop the first shoe to find out if the CCP will drop the other one to show its defiance. If CCP does move against Scarborough it will know to expect a response which is of no comfort to anyone.

Can you ask your government to sign and ratify the UNCLOS and then come in trying to tell China to obey the international ruling under UNCLOS.

Or is USA able to interpret the laws in the way when they want to because they believe they are a world power ?

So they will ratify any UN agreements when they are ready and not when people ask them to ?

But in the meantime can butt in to any regional business almost like the war cry at Iraq into bullying all the smaller UN members to believe the USA that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction in an open deceitful declaration ?

They are a World Power...

Ditto China ...this poster is anti China in most of his postings and has a lot of negativity towards the CCP

The CCP is not perfect and no government can claim to be ...they will continue to make mistakes in managing 1.4 billion people but I believe in most of the things the are doing has been non aggressive in nature and have never staked a regional conflict as its end point

China is a world power and in the SCS ...USA came in too late and now wants a slice of the pie in whatever form possible

Most ASEAN countries except Japan which has no claims to most islands disputed has no means in exploring these islands for the potential energy sources and the trade $$$ after

As such most ASEAN countries are using naive USA to be on a better platform to negotiate China and share the $$$$ and trade after the exploration stage

China is not dumb and knows this and hence the negotiations are bilateral

[ilostmypassword]

The UN sponsored Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague that is about to rule on the UNCLOS treaty in the Philippines v China dispute has five members.

The presiding arbiter is from Ghana and the Tribunal arbiters are from France, Germany, Netherlands, Poland.

CCP Dictators in Beijing have radically different notions on the law of the sea. To include radically different notions of the rule of law domestically and internationally. CCP does not like the rule of law as it continues to enrich itself by the rule of men.

Under the UNCLOS the South China Sea is a global commons where freedom of navigation is assured both on the sea and in the air above it. CCP however wants it to become a Chinese lake.

CCP in Beijing have gone so far with it that they've alienated almost all of Asean and the entire region from Japan and S Korea to India, all the while lining up supporters against the UNCLOS such as Gambia, Togo, Slovenia, Fiji and among a bunch of such others, Moscow.

Scarborough Shoal is the only place CCP Dictators haven't grabbed yet. It's well within the Philippines EEZ and Philippine sovereignty, 470 miles away from the CCP coast. US told Beijing not to go there because CCP missiles would be in range of Manila and US troops returning to the Phils.

So everyone is waiting for the PCA to drop the first shoe to find out if the CCP will drop the other one to show its defiance. If CCP does move against Scarborough it will know to expect a response which is of no comfort to anyone.

Can you ask your government to sign and ratify the UNCLOS and then come in trying to tell China to obey the international ruling under UNCLOS.

Or is USA able to interpret the laws in the way when they want to because they believe they are a world power ?

So they will ratify any UN agreements when they are ready and not when people ask them to ?

But in the meantime can butt in to any regional business almost like the war cry at Iraq into bullying all the smaller UN members to believe the USA that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction in an open deceitful declaration ?

They are a World Power...

Ditto China ...this poster is anti China in most of his postings and has a lot of negativity towards the CCP

The CCP is not perfect and no government can claim to be ...they will continue to make mistakes in managing 1.4 billion people but I believe in most of the things the are doing has been non aggressive in nature and have never staked a regional conflict as its end point

China is a world power and in the SCS ...USA came in too late and now wants a slice of the pie in whatever form possible

Most ASEAN countries except Japan which has no claims to most islands disputed has no means in exploring these islands for the potential energy sources and the trade $$$ after

As such most ASEAN countries are using naive USA to be on a better platform to negotiate China and share the $$$$ and trade after the exploration stage

China is not dumb and knows this and hence the negotiations are bilateral

I've noticed a constant refrain in LawrenceChee's comments about the disputed islands. Namely that all the nations in question, with the exception of China, are basically pursuing this dispute for economic gain only. National pride doesn't enter into it. So is Lawrencechee saying that for the Chinese it's also only about the money or is it a question of national pride for them?

[LawrenceChee]

I believe ASEAN countries are pragmatic and if you believe Philippines wants the rocks for the sake of national pride or riding a jet ski to plant a flag ...it's silly right ?

I have friends in the senate and they are of the same opinion ; they want a fair deal and this is what the incoming president wants too ...he's a tough man to crack and he wants to be sure the Filipinos gets the $$$ ...watch how much Indonesia is getting for selling natural gas and that money of course will help push many of the social and infrastructure programs that the president of Philippines wants

No one including China cares about the rocks ...its what is underneath that gets people excited ...same as America if this is in your neck of the woods

Unfortunately it's not there and USA is naively misunderstanding the ability of the ASEAN nations to act weak for commercial gains

China is not dumb ...no one can win a war against Vietnam easily ...so outwardly the vietcongs are playing the Americans again playing by the weaker card to China ...both generals in Vietnam and China are commies and know there is nothing to gain over a war and no one will win without much years of bloodshed.

This is the inherent difference in ASEAN nations , no one here wants the useless wars similar to the Middle East.

So everyone is posturing for their voters but inwardly everyone wants to negotiate a fair deal and get the $$$

[ilostmypassword]

I believe ASEAN countries are pragmatic and if you believe Philippines wants the rocks for the sake of national pride or riding a jet ski to plant a flag ...it's silly right ?

I have friends in the senate and they are of the same opinion ; they want a fair deal and this is what the incoming president wants too ...he's a tough man to crack and he wants to be sure the Filipinos gets the $$$ ...watch how much Indonesia is getting for selling natural gas and that money of course will help push many of the social and infrastructure programs that the president of Philippines wants

No one including China cares about the rocks ...its what is underneath that gets people excited ...same as America if this is in your neck of the woods

Unfortunately it's not there and USA is naively misunderstanding the ability of the ASEAN nations to act weak for commercial gains

China is not dumb ...no one can win a war against Vietnam easily ...so outwardly the vietcongs are playing the Americans again playing by the weaker card to China ...both generals in Vietnam and China are commies and know there is nothing to gain over a war and no one will win without much years of bloodshed.

This is the inherent difference in ASEAN nations , no one here wants the useless wars similar to the Middle East.

So everyone is posturing for their voters but inwardly everyone wants to negotiate a fair deal and get the $$$

Good to know that the Vietnamese are not intensely nationalistic and don't resent and mistrust the Chinese. It might even be true on an alternative planet.

[sgtsabai]

TPP is NOT a trade agreement, it is, simple put, a corporate coup and workers in all nations involved will suffer. The corporations and plutocrats are the only ones that will benefit............... China has been sitting back, laughing and building it's military while the US has been wasting it's fortune, lives, and international standing in illegal, immoral endless wars for empire in the Mid-East. The dragon is moving and perceives weakness in the only nation able to counter it. Japan of course will give one hell of a good accounting of itself. When China starts it's war, and it will, it will find, at the cost of many lives, ships, planes and money on both sides it will not have a navy or an air force, they will cease to exist as will their phony "islands". This will not be a war for empire for the US, it will be a war for the empire China has always felt entitled to. China has no claim to the islands or the South China Sea. A little reading:................. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-wp-blm-asia-military-94d18196-27e5-11e6-8329-6104954928d2-20160605-story.html................

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-china-idUSKCN0YS09J............................

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/international/asia-pacific/2016/06/03/shangri-la-dialogue-opens-singapore-south-china-sea-largely-dominating-summit/85361430/.....................

http://thediplomat.com/2016/06/us-arms-sales-to-vietnam-a-military-analysis/....................

[LawrenceChee]

I believe ASEAN countries are pragmatic and if you believe Philippines wants the rocks for the sake of national pride or riding a jet ski to plant a flag ...it's silly right ?

I have friends in the senate and they are of the same opinion ; they want a fair deal and this is what the incoming president wants too ...he's a tough man to crack and he wants to be sure the Filipinos gets the $$$ ...watch how much Indonesia is getting for selling natural gas and that money of course will help push many of the social and infrastructure programs that the president of Philippines wants

No one including China cares about the rocks ...its what is underneath that gets people excited ...same as America if this is in your neck of the woods

Unfortunately it's not there and USA is naively misunderstanding the ability of the ASEAN nations to act weak for commercial gains

China is not dumb ...no one can win a war against Vietnam easily ...so outwardly the vietcongs are playing the Americans again playing by the weaker card to China ...both generals in Vietnam and China are commies and know there is nothing to gain over a war and no one will win without much years of bloodshed.

This is the inherent difference in ASEAN nations , no one here wants the useless wars similar to the Middle East.

So everyone is posturing for their voters but inwardly everyone wants to negotiate a fair deal and get the $$$

Good to know that the Vietnamese are not intensely nationalistic and don't resent and mistrust the Chinese. It might even be true on an alternative planet.

The amazing thing in Asia is trade binds ties more closely than real trust ...unlike the western world we don't like pretending we can ever be best buddies or BFF or share the same ideologies because we don't

You can hate each other , resent each other's culture but the binding ties of trade has been here forever in Asia thru trade winds and won't change ...if you ever get to Hue ...you can see the last remnants of a palace built by the Emperors of Vietnam modelled after the forbidden palace in China when ties were not rosy then but the cultural impact of the Chinese empire then spread thru much of Asia

Was a beautiful sight till Uncle Sam bombed it to bits in the Vietcong war ....and now there are only some frame gates left

Edited June 6, 2016 by LawrenceChee

[boomerangutang]

Why does USA think they are above treaties sanctioned by the UN if they have no issue with the law and its content ?

The US is not commandeering other countries' territories. .....and certainly not going on to obstruct international ship and air lanes.

China is a world power and in the SCS ...USA came in too late and now wants a slice of the pie in whatever form possible

The US doesn't want a slice of any pie. The US is standing by its friends in the region: Philippines, Vietnam, Taiwan, and others. ....countries which are being bullied by China.

Besides helping its friends in times of need, the US doesn't want restrictions put on shipping lanes and flying spaces. Those are just some of the new restrictions China is enacting in its business of grabbing other countries' territories.

Having a large population is no excuse for illegally grabbing other countries' territories. There is no excuse, and that's why China is defying international jurors and the world in this issue. What it's doing is illegal. The proof is it's declaring, even before the findings, that it won't abide by any international judgments.

If a bank robber went from bank to bank, each time eluding cops, and each time declaring: "I don't care what the law says, I need money, so I'm going to get it any way I can. Because I don't respect the law, the law doesn't apply to me. So don't even bother telling me it's against the law. I won't hear it."

[LawrenceChee]

Why does USA think they are above treaties sanctioned by the UN if they have no issue with the law and its content ?

The US is not commandeering other countries' territories. .....and certainly not going on to obstruct international ship and air lanes.

China is a world power and in the SCS ...USA came in too late and now wants a slice of the pie in whatever form possible

The US doesn't want a slice of any pie. The US is standing by its friends in the region: Philippines, Vietnam, Taiwan, and others. ....countries which are being bullied by China.

Besides helping its friends in times of need, the US doesn't want restrictions put on shipping lanes and flying spaces. Those are just some of the new restrictions China is enacting in its business of grabbing other countries' territories.

Having a large population is no excuse for illegally grabbing other countries' territories. There is no excuse, and that's why China is defying international jurors and the world in this issue. What it's doing is illegal. The proof is it's declaring, even before the findings, that it won't abide by any international judgments.

If a bank robber went from bank to bank, each time eluding cops, and each time declaring: "I don't care what the law says, I need money, so I'm going to get it any way I can. Because I don't respect the law, the law doesn't apply to me. So don't even bother telling me it's against the law. I won't hear it."

Yeap we all believed the USA liberated Iraq to only open McDonald's and Walmart and introduce them to the great American culture of BBQ and backyard conversations

For years in the name of security enhancements have not occupied Iraq illegally to safeguard the oil ...unicorn fairy tale mates ....you can believe the Americans went in there legally but Bush hoaxed the UN and its allies and bullied its way to a resolution to Attack Iraq to achieve his cowboy ego of revenge

China has obstructed nothing and again the western media plays to this fear ...till date ...

What major armed conflict has happened in Asia stated by China since Vietnam war or since China has become a superpower ?

What countries have been denied fair usage of the trading lanes since China has become a superpower ?

As for flying spaces - USA imposes the same so when you dismantle yours maybe China would learn a superpower cannot do that and follow suit ...since as a poster it's has always been your point that China has zero innovation and only good at copying others

Answer : None so stop believing China is a tyrant bullying country ...as superpower it has the edge in negotiations and that is normal. I don't believe the USA or any foreign powers G5 or G7 will go in to any country smaller than them and treat them as equals.

German Chancellor struck a hard deal with Greece an will do so again in a few months ...you think as a country representing Germany they will negotiate on fair terms with Greece ?

You can believe the western media and if you believe Vietnam & Philippines is your Friend ...you can read the above prior posts again ...there is no denying USA has a good heart but it's naiveness in foreign affairs is why the ASEAN countries can always make a mickey out of them and play the damsel card

[ddavidovsky]

China is knowingly rushing into conflict here, in a way the world hasn't seen since the 1930s.

They will take the South China Sea by force - a process that is well under way and now unstoppable.

The rest of the world has to decide whether the region is worth a World War. It isn't, because the other claimants have already lost (being so feckless) and because the Chinese are hardly likely to have territorial aspirations on any mainland. Nor can a World War be justified on principle when the rest of the world has done nothing about China's much more heinous territorial annexation of Tibet and Xinjiang.

Conclusion: there will be a long cold war, but life will go on.

Edited June 7, 2016 by ddavidovsky

[boomerangutang]

Why does USA think they are above treaties sanctioned by the UN if they have no issue with the law and its content ?

The US is not commandeering other countries' territories. .....and certainly not going on to obstruct international ship and air lanes.

China is a world power and in the SCS ...USA came in too late and now wants a slice of the pie in whatever form possible

The US doesn't want a slice of any pie. The US is standing by its friends in the region: Philippines, Vietnam, Taiwan, and others. ....countries which are being bullied by China.

Besides helping its friends in times of need, the US doesn't want restrictions put on shipping lanes and flying spaces. Those are just some of the new restrictions China is enacting in its business of grabbing other countries' territories.

Having a large population is no excuse for illegally grabbing other countries' territories. There is no excuse, and that's why China is defying international jurors and the world in this issue. What it's doing is illegal. The proof is it's declaring, even before the findings, that it won't abide by any international judgments.

If a bank robber went from bank to bank, each time eluding cops, and each time declaring: "I don't care what the law says, I need money, so I'm going to get it any way I can. Because I don't respect the law, the law doesn't apply to me. So don't even bother telling me it's against the law. I won't hear it."

Yeap we all believed the USA liberated Iraq to only open McDonald's and Walmart and introduce them to the great American culture of BBQ and backyard conversations

For years in the name of security enhancements have not occupied Iraq illegally to safeguard the oil ...unicorn fairy tale mates ....you can believe the Americans went in there legally but Bush hoaxed the UN and its allies and bullied its way to a resolution to Attack Iraq to achieve his cowboy ego of revenge

China has obstructed nothing and again the western media plays to this fear ...till date ...

What major armed conflict has happened in Asia stated by China since Vietnam war or since China has become a superpower ?

What countries have been denied fair usage of the trading lanes since China has become a superpower ?

As for flying spaces - USA imposes the same so when you dismantle yours maybe China would learn a superpower cannot do that and follow suit ...since as a poster it's has always been your point that China has zero innovation and only good at copying others

Answer : None so stop believing China is a tyrant bullying country ...as superpower it has the edge in negotiations and that is normal. I don't believe the USA or any foreign powers G5 or G7 will go in to any country smaller than them and treat them as equals.

German Chancellor struck a hard deal with Greece an will do so again in a few months ...you think as a country representing Germany they will negotiate on fair terms with Greece ?

You can believe the western media and if you believe Vietnam & Philippines is your Friend ...you can read the above prior posts again ...there is no denying USA has a good heart but it's naiveness in foreign affairs is why the ASEAN countries can always make a mickey out of them and play the damsel card

"China has obstructed nothing" "As for flying spaces"

Reality: China has already started restricting flying over the contested territory. It will increase its restrictions, as time rolls by. It will then restrict ship traffic and fishing rights. Then it will drill for oil.

....all those things it's doing and will do there, are things that a country does on its own territory. The difference in this scenario is: IT'S DOING THEM ON TERRITORY IT DOESN'T OWN.

[LawrenceChee]

Why does USA think they are above treaties sanctioned by the UN if they have no issue with the law and its content ?

The US is not commandeering other countries' territories. .....and certainly not going on to obstruct international ship and air lanes.

China is a world power and in the SCS ...USA came in too late and now wants a slice of the pie in whatever form possible

The US doesn't want a slice of any pie. The US is standing by its friends in the region: Philippines, Vietnam, Taiwan, and others. ....countries which are being bullied by China.

Besides helping its friends in times of need, the US doesn't want restrictions put on shipping lanes and flying spaces. Those are just some of the new restrictions China is enacting in its business of grabbing other countries' territories.

Having a large population is no excuse for illegally grabbing other countries' territories. There is no excuse, and that's why China is defying international jurors and the world in this issue. What it's doing is illegal. The proof is it's declaring, even before the findings, that it won't abide by any international judgments.

If a bank robber went from bank to bank, each time eluding cops, and each time declaring: "I don't care what the law says, I need money, so I'm going to get it any way I can. Because I don't respect the law, the law doesn't apply to me. So don't even bother telling me it's against the law. I won't hear it."

Yeap we all believed the USA liberated Iraq to only open McDonald's and Walmart and introduce them to the great American culture of BBQ and backyard conversations

For years in the name of security enhancements have not occupied Iraq illegally to safeguard the oil ...unicorn fairy tale mates ....you can believe the Americans went in there legally but Bush hoaxed the UN and its allies and bullied its way to a resolution to Attack Iraq to achieve his cowboy ego of revenge

China has obstructed nothing and again the western media plays to this fear ...till date ...

What major armed conflict has happened in Asia stated by China since Vietnam war or since China has become a superpower ?

What countries have been denied fair usage of the trading lanes since China has become a superpower ?

As for flying spaces - USA imposes the same so when you dismantle yours maybe China would learn a superpower cannot do that and follow suit ...since as a poster it's has always been your point that China has zero innovation and only good at copying others

Answer : None so stop believing China is a tyrant bullying country ...as superpower it has the edge in negotiations and that is normal. I don't believe the USA or any foreign powers G5 or G7 will go in to any country smaller than them and treat them as equals.

German Chancellor struck a hard deal with Greece an will do so again in a few months ...you think as a country representing Germany they will negotiate on fair terms with Greece ?

You can believe the western media and if you believe Vietnam & Philippines is your Friend ...you can read the above prior posts again ...there is no denying USA has a good heart but it's naiveness in foreign affairs is why the ASEAN countries can always make a mickey out of them and play the damsel card

"China has obstructed nothing" "As for flying spaces"

Reality: China has already started restricting flying over the contested territory. It will increase its restrictions, as time rolls by. It will then restrict ship traffic and fishing rights. Then it will drill for oil.

....all those things it's doing and will do there, are things that a country does on its own territory. The difference in this scenario is: IT'S DOING THEM ON TERRITORY IT DOESN'T OWN.

Have a look at your own airspace restrictions ,..ever wonder why flying to the USA has seperate counters and always at the end of the terminal so that seperate Brownings can be concluded ? There is no restricted flying ...just reporting ....and I know Uncle Sam believes they report to no one and its irking them China can now do what they have doing for years

It's in unicorn tales if you believe flying over Isa airspace has zero restrictions or reporting ...so why whine about it ? China is a superpower like you and can do the same ...most airlines have no issues with this

If you start to permit Russian and Chinese air jets to fly over your airspace without reporting , you can ask for the same in China ...if not it's fair game mate

[Usernames]

Since the end of World War II, US territory and its possessions have shrunk significantly, while China's territorial claims, conquests, and annexations of Tibet, India, Bhutan, and the SCS (not to mention its stealth maneuvering to control Mongolia and parts of Russian Siberia), if allowed to stand, would increase its territory since World War II by almost 25 percent. It's clear just who is the imperialist power and who wants to conquer and subjugate other people.

[tonbridgebrit]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/taiwan-says-wont-recognise-chinese-air-defence-zone-033109232.html



Two Chinese (Republic Of China) navy personnel, yes, fight and die for YOUR cause, that's what being in the military is all about.


Okay, the above is from Reuters.

A few quotes. "Taiwan's new defence minister said on Monday the island would not recognise any air defence zone declared by China over the South China Sea, as the island's top security agency warned such a move could usher in a wave of regional tension."

And "U.S. officials have expressed concern that an international court ruling expected in coming weeks on a case brought by the Philippines against China over its South China Sea claims could prompt Beijing to declare an air defence identification zone, or ADIZ, as it did over the East China Sea in 2013."




Obviously, this whole thing is becoming ridiculous and absurd. Look, China (Republic of China, Taiwan) is already occupying that Taiping Island place. And China (Peoples' Republic of China) claims the South China Sea. China (Republic of China, Taiwan) should accept that it's claims on Taiping Island and the South China Sea are on the same basis and principles as China's (Peoples' Republic of China) claims on the South China Sea.


On this occasion, China (Republic of China) should accept that it is the same as China (Peoples' Republic of China), yes, accept the One-China policy. Yes, there is ONE China, not two. Come on everybody, Washington itself accepts that there is only ONE China. Beijing accepts that there is only ONE China. Who doesn't accept that there's only ONE China ? There will always be ONE China, never two. Just like there will always be ONE USA, never two.

How about China (Republic of China) gets together with China (Peoples' Republic of China) to claim the South China Sea, and not have two seperate policies ? That will make China look pretty stupid right, if there were two seperate policies ?

[tonbridgebrit]

China is knowingly rushing into conflict here, in a way the world hasn't seen since the 1930s.

They will take the South China Sea by force - a process that is well under way and now unstoppable.

The rest of the world has to decide whether the region is worth a World War. It isn't, because the other claimants have already lost (being so feckless) and because the Chinese are hardly likely to have territorial aspirations on any mainland. Nor can a World War be justified on principle when the rest of the world has done nothing about China's much more heinous territorial annexation of Tibet and Xinjiang.

Conclusion: there will be a long cold war, but life will go on.

"China's much more heinous territorial annexation of Tibet and Xinjiang."

Do you want to claim that Britain taking over Australia and New Zealand was just as heinous ?

You talk about a cold war ? Do you reckon America and the European Union should import less goods from China as part of this new cold war ?

[impulse]

GENEVA, Feb. 24, 1933

"Japan will oppose any attempt at international control of Manchuria. It does not mean that we defy you, because Manchuria belongs to us by right.

"Read your history. We recovered Manchuria from Russia. We made it what it is today."

http://www.johndclare.net/league_of_nations6_news.htm

Sounds eerily familiar...

[SheungWan]

China is knowingly rushing into conflict here, in a way the world hasn't seen since the 1930s.

They will take the South China Sea by force - a process that is well under way and now unstoppable.

The rest of the world has to decide whether the region is worth a World War. It isn't, because the other claimants have already lost (being so feckless) and because the Chinese are hardly likely to have territorial aspirations on any mainland. Nor can a World War be justified on principle when the rest of the world has done nothing about China's much more heinous territorial annexation of Tibet and Xinjiang.

Conclusion: there will be a long cold war, but life will go on.

"China's much more heinous territorial annexation of Tibet and Xinjiang."

Do you want to claim that Britain taking over Australia and New Zealand was just as heinous ?

You talk about a cold war ? Do you reckon America and the European Union should import less goods from China as part of this new cold war ?

It is always a bizarre sight reading fellow-travellers spin defending Stalinist practice. Always was, always will be.

[tonbridgebrit]

"China's much more heinous territorial annexation of Tibet and Xinjiang."

Do you want to claim that Britain taking over Australia and New Zealand was just as heinous ?

You talk about a cold war ? Do you reckon America and the European Union should import less goods from China as part of this new cold war ?

It is always a bizarre sight reading fellow-travellers spin defending Stalinist practice. Always was, always will be.

Do you reckon that China is a danger to world peace ? Do you reckon, if China is a threat to world peace, that America and Europe should reduce the amount of Chinese goods that are being imported ?

Or, do you reckon that China is harmless, and that a lot of Chinese-made goods in your home is actually not a problem ?

Or, maybe you reckon, China IS a threat to world peace, but because we're so addicted to them flat-screen televisions and other electronic goods, well, we should carry on buying Chinese goods regardless ??

I mean, how about I say that I don't really care about Republic of China carrying on it's occupation of Taiping Island (Itu Aba). And I don't really care about Peoples' Republic of China building some islands in the middle of the South China Sea, I don't know where on a world map where these dots are. But I do know, that a lot of the stuff in my home has been imported from China, and that's not actually a problem to me.

[tonbridgebrit]

GENEVA, Feb. 24, 1933

"Japan will oppose any attempt at international control of Manchuria. It does not mean that we defy you, because Manchuria belongs to us by right.

"Read your history. We recovered Manchuria from Russia. We made it what it is today."

http://www.johndclare.net/league_of_nations6_news.htm

Sounds eerily familiar...

Japan recieved a thoroughly good kicking during World War Two. They had s___ beaten out of them, they deserved it.

Japan actually killed a whole load of people in the 1930s, BEFORE they fought their war against Britain and America.

China isn't actually killing anybody. Also, China did actually take part in defeating Japan during World War Two.

[LawrenceChee]

Since the end of World War II, US territory and its possessions have shrunk significantly, while China's territorial claims, conquests, and annexations of Tibet, India, Bhutan, and the SCS (not to mention its stealth maneuvering to control Mongolia and parts of Russian Siberia), if allowed to stand, would increase its territory since World War II by almost 25 percent. It's clear just who is the imperialist power and who wants to conquer and subjugate other people.

After WWII China was not a superpower yet ....so it may be good to see that in that context

Now it has morphed into a communist state with capitalistic thoughts ...there is no conquests ...unlike the USA ...China has not fired thousand of missiles at any sovereign countries in the last 30 years ...no opportunity and no interest in this part of the world

Pretty clear who is the trigger happy nation that resorts to only missiles to resolve territorial issues ...China has been negotiating , talking , trading deals and that is what they are good at. Acknowledge that and there is some mutual respect to build on

I will repeat again China has been keeping mad generations of Kim from a pan Asian conflict for decades and receive no credit for it ....Japan / Sputh Korea / Russia are all beneficiaries of that policy of continuous talk and trade and no missiles fired into the peninsula to subdue anyone ....

No one wants mad Kim on the loose including ASEAN nations ...if this implodes , millions here will suffer from economic grief as trade sea routes and air routes all get threatened and instability in the region with massive refugees

That's a real issue ...and China has been keeping this part of the world safe for its partners through no demonstrations and no military display of might

Think about that ...the Chinese do a lot that over tea ..patience is the name of the game.

[Usernames]

Ah, so China only attacks and occupies weak neighbors, such as Tibet, Bhutan, and Mongolia, who can't fight back. I see. And they get to do it, because they think they are a "superpower."

[ddavidovsky]

China is knowingly rushing into conflict here, in a way the world hasn't seen since the 1930s.

They will take the South China Sea by force - a process that is well under way and now unstoppable.

The rest of the world has to decide whether the region is worth a World War. It isn't, because the other claimants have already lost (being so feckless) and because the Chinese are hardly likely to have territorial aspirations on any mainland. Nor can a World War be justified on principle when the rest of the world has done nothing about China's much more heinous territorial annexation of Tibet and Xinjiang.

Conclusion: there will be a long cold war, but life will go on.

"China's much more heinous territorial annexation of Tibet and Xinjiang."

Do you want to claim that Britain taking over Australia and New Zealand was just as heinous ?

You talk about a cold war ? Do you reckon America and the European Union should import less goods from China as part of this new cold war ?

The comparison with Australia (and the Americas) is valid to the extent that it is also an unstoppable human force - an invasion of sorts - the tectonic plates of history creaking. In any case far bigger things have happened in history and the world has no more than shrugged. The upheaval comes from the societies that are expanding. It's probably a surprise to most people that the world is still evolving in this way, but it is all about competition for resources and it was quite predictable that the newly emerged China would begin to assert itself.

China's actions are still immoral though, because they take place in the modern era, when the world has to a large extent settled down and we know better the consequences of certain actions. They are placing the whole world at risk. When Australia and North America were colonised, those were not nations with cities and universities and organised industry and agriculture etc, but tribes living in a near-state of nature - after thousands of years they were still living in caves and tents. In history, you snooze, you lose.

Should trade with China be boycotted? Why bother? It won't work and everyone will lose. China has won this one through brute determination and numbers. Galling as it is, the rest of the world had better let them them to get away with it. Some things you have to fight a world war over. Not this.

[boomerangutang]

There's a bunch of nonsense on this thread which is muddying the waters. Let me try to address some of it:

>>>> Of course the US, as every other country ww, has rules re; fly-overs of their territory. A primary issue here, in this thread is China commandeering other countries' territory, and then going on to restrict movement in the seas around it, and the air above it. The US hasn't commandeered any territory since, I don't know, Puerto Rico.

>>>> Diversionary posters on here occasionally harken back hundreds of years in the past, when European powers were imperialists. That was the thinking then. Nearly all European possessions have gained independence, some through conflict, some by peaceful processes. For the past 100 to 150 years, European powers and US have matured to realize that imperialism is not the right path. China never learned that. So China is trying to do what European powers did hundreds of years ago ; commandeer territories. It's archaic thinking. We welcome China to the 21st century. They can leave your broadswords and gilded horses behind - put them in a museum.

>>>> Economics are important, but they're not the over-riding concern. Some people think money is God. It's not. Some people frame the imboglio in the SCS (all triggered by China, btw) as all about money. It's bigger than that. It's about being a decent neighbor (don't covet thy neighbor's territory), it's about not restricting movement of boats and planes in international regions, it's about allowing Fil Fishermen to fish in waters off their coast, it's about sanctity of coral reefs and natural habitat, and also about environmental husbandry in general.

We're just at the beginning stages, yet already China is destroying sea life and toxifying the waters. China has barely cranked up its pollution machine. Then later, expect oil spills and ships cleaning out their bilge tanks, and perhaps dumping N waste, and.....?

Trusting China to take care of the natural environment is like trusting a paedophile to take charge of a nursery school.

[LawrenceChee]

Ah, so China only attacks and occupies weak neighbors, such as Tibet, Bhutan, and Mongolia, who can't fight back. I see. And they get to do it, because they think they are a "superpower."

Define Attack ? When you speak of Bhutan ...do you mean by the same token India which proclaims to be a key USA ally and the world largest democracy stick and carrot approach in their foreign affairs management with Bhutan and Nepal ?

India has repeatedly used oil and gas supplies as a means of holding on to Bhutan much like Russia's strategy in the baltics

Bhutan is strategic in a military sense to both China and both countries wants to make friends with Bhutan

I have not seen any military inclusions so what attacks are you talking about or you are flaming the issue ?

Politics is wide encompassing ...be good to see the multiple complexities

Tibet and Mongolia is strategic to China in blocking India and Russia ...no different from why USA hold on to Alaska for holding Russia to create a military and missiles buffer

By the way China is a superpower ...if anyone is still using terms like they think...they are obviously not current with the world situations

Edited June 7, 2016 by LawrenceChee

[Usernames]

At least the Soviets had the sense to deny it when they did something wrong. Invasion of Czechoslovakia? What invasion? Invasion of Afghanistan? What invasion? But here, in this topic, we see some posters glorifying and justifying territorial conquest. And China needs to expand. Its ramshackle social policies, poisonous environmental actions, and ruinous treatment of its population requires it to expand or fall apart at home. But fall apart it will. Too many inner inconsistencies, as noted, to keep things going without vast internal turmoil.

[ddavidovsky]

At least the Soviets had the sense to deny it when they did something wrong. Invasion of Czechoslovakia? What invasion? Invasion of Afghanistan? What invasion? But here, in this topic, we see some posters glorifying and justifying territorial conquest. And China needs to expand. Its ramshackle social policies, poisonous environmental actions, and ruinous treatment of its population requires it to expand or fall apart at home. But fall apart it will. Too many inner inconsistencies, as noted, to keep things going without vast internal turmoil.

Not glorifying, just taking an anthropological perspective. The Communist government (not in fact communist but fascist) will surely crumble eventually - I don't know what that will mean for Tibet and the other annexed territories, but a less nationalistic China would make the world a safer place. All the more reason for the world not to act rashly over the South China Sea.