Bringing Thaksin To Account

[sriracha john]

No shortage of international media attention on this...

Thailand threat to shoot 4,000 in drug war

The new Thai government is to relaunch the country's "war on drugs" which killed more than 2,500 people allegedly involved in the trade.

During a three-month killing spree in 2003 as intense as a full-scale armed conflict, thousands named on police "black lists" were shot dead, allegedly on government orders.

Yet the government's narcotics control board concluded that more than half the victims had no involvement in drugs. One couple from north-eastern Thailand were shot dead after coming into unexplained wealth and being added to a black list. They were, in fact, lottery winners.

The campaign was one of the principal policies of Thaksin Shinawatra, the former prime minister and Mr Samak's political patron, who now lives in exile and owns Manchester City Football Club.

"My government will decisively implement a policy against drug trafficking. Government officials must implement this policy 24 hours a day, but I will not set a target for how many people should die," said Samak Sundaravej, the new prime minister.

The Interior Minister Chalerm Yubamrung, said: "When we implement a policy that may bring 3,000 to 4,000 bodies, we will do it,"

Although the military junta which overthrew Mr Thaksin in 2006 called the killings "a crime against humanity", the former premier and his supporters - who were re-elected in December - insist that the dead were the victims of gang warfare, not police killings.

Yet there is strong evidence of police involvement. Many were shot days after being summoned to defend themselves before local authorities or after reporting to a police station to have their name removed from the "black list".

The government ordered the police to compile "black lists" which were as comprehensive as possible, then shorten the list by 25 per cent every month. Often the only way off the list was death.

- Telegraph (UK)

[sriracha john]

PM: War on drugs a government priority

Samak Sundaravej has reiterated plans to relaunch the war against drugs and says the government is serious about cracking down on drug traffickers. Speaking during his weekly television show "Speaking in Samak's Style", the PM blamed the inaccuracy in relaying the government's policies to the public which, in turn, makes them believe that extra-judicial killings are part of the government's strategy in its fight against drugs. "I want people to understand that in order to fulfill the government's anti-drug war, extra-judicial killings do occur and that police officers responsible for these acts will have to face the legal consequences," he said. He added: "In the past, there have only been

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=126113

[sriracha john]

PM Samak: No extra-judicial killings in war-on-drugs policy

BANGKOK – Thai Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej stood firm Sunday reasserting that his government's policy to resume a tough policy to suppress drug trafficking in the country, as implemented by the former Thaksin government some five years ago, has nothing to do with the so-called extra-judicial killings which had sparked an outcry from local and international organisations.

In his weekly radio and television program, Samak said it was impossible that government authorities had killed some 2,500 people during the drug suppression campaign launched by the ousted government of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra in 2003.

Concerned officials had investigated and found that only 59 persons out of 2,500 were killed by police officers and those implicated must stand trial in the courts, he said.

The rest were killed by their colleagues to protect major drug dealers from police investigation and prosecution.

"It's impossible not to carry out the drug suppression policy and when it's implemented killings will take place," said Samak, adding that the media never tried to understand that the government's policy is meant to protect the new generation.

He charged that the media always cited criticisms on the policy by the United Nations and "those people who stay far away" and also failed to listen and thought the government had ordered policemen to shoot the traffickers which was untrue.

Several local and international organisations have charged that previous large-scale killings called the 'war on drugs' policy had led to human rights violations. Many victims were believed by critics to have had no links to the illegal drug trade.

- TNA

[thedude]

i find it very disturbing that such an old thread from the early junta days is still bouncing around the News Clipping forum. and its kept alive by the same few anti-thaksin fanatics that continue to post incessently like they are actually going to make a difference to what happens here.

move on already, the forum deserves new life and new articles from the current media, and by this i mean not just the Nation, whose editorial is seriously biased and incapable of objective reporting.

[sriracha john]

Do articles from Reuters, AFP, and the Daily Telegraph posted on the day they are written and concerning an issue that will not resolve itself in 3 days meet with your approval?

[Plus]

In a way Thedude is right - no one is going to bring Thaksin or anyone else to justice any time soon. It's time for the new drug war thread.

[marshbags]

In a way Thedude is right - no one is going to bring Thaksin or anyone else to justice any time soon. It's time for the new drug war thread.

Nothing personal in any way Plus.

As with other threads all you,ll get is duplicated debate and observations.

If it happens let us continue with empathy for the murdered and their famlies in this instance, while at the same time i would pray that history doesn,t repeat it,s horrendous self as is very publically stated, about to take place, yet again

GOD FORBID THEM PLEASE !!!

This thread was started on behalf of the EJK victims and to highlight and exchange views while keeping the important issue in the public domain while paying respect to them and offer our heartfelt sympathies.

Not only T.Visa members read the forums contributions as we all appreciate, hence the public domain reference.

It is / has been a worthy debate and is a credit to everyone who has contributed to it for all the right reasons and in a very positive and sympathetic way.

marshbags

[younghusband]

In a way Thedude is right - no one is going to bring Thaksin or anyone else to justice any time soon. It's time for the new drug war thread.

Nothing personal in any way Plus.

As with other threads all you,ll get is duplicated debate and observations.

If it happens let us continue with empathy for the murdered and their famlies in this instance, while at the same time i would pray that history doesn,t repeat it,s horrendous self as is very publically stated, about to take place, yet again

GOD FORBID THEM PLEASE !!!

This thread was started on behalf of the EJK victims and to highlight and exchange views while keeping the important issue in the public domain while paying respect to them and offer our heartfelt sympathies.

Not only T.Visa members read the forums contributions as we all appreciate, hence the public domain reference.

It is / has been a worthy debate and is a credit to everyone who has contributed to it for all the right reasons and in a very positive and sympathetic way.

marshbags

And while we are at it let's keep in mind the hundreds of thousands of Thais whose lives have been destroyed as well as the communities devestated by drug dealers and the corrosive damage of the narcotics industry.

[Plus]

Former Human Rights Commissioner who was charged with inciting violence outside Prem's residence has voiced support for the new round in the drug war, he insisted that it should be done according to the Constitution. As previous killings were not found in breach of Constituion, they must have been ok, if you follow his logic.

The guy was praised for his anti-junta activities once, will the same people still support his position now? Will they keep him pinned as democracy poster boy? Another anti-junta, pro-democracy protester, Dr. Weng, was invited by "We Love Thaksin" assossiation to take part in their bring Thaksin home campaign. So far there's no news that he accepted the invitation, but the mere fact that he was even considered says a lot about his standing.

It appears that as time goes by all those allegedly anti-Thaksin pro-democracy types have found themselves on the wrong side of human rights issues debates, and the junta appears to be far more concerned with human rights than those so called democracy lovers.

Even Nation's staunch anti-junta writer, Pravit Rojanapruek, is openly concerned with the new, democratic government's direction. Perhaps in a couple of months he'd realise that the junta were really the best of the bunch and "democratic" governments are far more dangerous.

Maybe when another tree four thousand people are killed they'll start saying it's good because it was done in a democratic way. I hope it won't come down to that, but they obvioulsy have misplaced priorities.

>>>

I'm in favour of starting a new thread to cover the new drug war, if it materialises.

[sriracha john]

I'm coming around to accepting that idea... if the current General Forum thread gets moved over to the News Clipping Forum. It could be separated, as best as possible, from the this the previous War and still this could remain open for any posting on updates to specifically the Thaksin version of the War itself.

It might have been considered to name the newer thread Drug War 2 or such... but that wouldn't actually reflect the reality that Thaksin had sanctioned Drug War 1, Drug War 2, Drug War 3, and Drug War 4.

[younghusband]

Former Human Rights Commissioner who was charged with inciting violence outside Prem's residence has voiced support for the new round in the drug war, he insisted that it should be done according to the Constitution. As previous killings were not found in breach of Constituion, they must have been ok, if you follow his logic.

The guy was praised for his anti-junta activities once, will the same people still support his position now? Will they keep him pinned as democracy poster boy? Another anti-junta, pro-democracy protester, Dr. Weng, was invited by "We Love Thaksin" assossiation to take part in their bring Thaksin home campaign. So far there's no news that he accepted the invitation, but the mere fact that he was even considered says a lot about his standing.

It appears that as time goes by all those allegedly anti-Thaksin pro-democracy types have found themselves on the wrong side of human rights issues debates, and the junta appears to be far more concerned with human rights than those so called democracy lovers.

Even Nation's staunch anti-junta writer, Pravit Rojanapruek, is openly concerned with the new, democratic government's direction. Perhaps in a couple of months he'd realise that the junta were really the best of the bunch and "democratic" governments are far more dangerous.

Maybe when another tree four thousand people are killed they'll start saying it's good because it was done in a democratic way. I hope it won't come down to that, but they obvioulsy have misplaced priorities.

>>>

I'm in favour of starting a new thread to cover the new drug war, if it materialises.

I'm very dubious, as you would expect, about much of this but most of us can agree that every effort must be made to prevent a repetition of the drug war killings.I think it's essential that leaders in Thai society speak out NOW to nip any further abuses in the bud.Signals need to be sent out to Chalerm NOW by the great and the good (not just activists or those with a political axe to grind) that this kind of activity is intolerable regardless whether majority opinion supports it or not.So far the silence has been deafening.

[Plus]

Chalerm and Samak ARE the leaders. No one can tell them anything, they've been elected by the people.

Who is supposed to send them signals? I think you refer to the same people Samak and Chalerm snubbed in the elections, they have no authority over these thugs.

[younghusband]

Chalerm and Samak ARE the leaders. No one can tell them anything, they've been elected by the people.

Who is supposed to send them signals? I think you refer to the same people Samak and Chalerm snubbed in the elections, they have no authority over these thugs.

Why just give up? Campaigns can be launched by concerned citizens in Thailand just as alsewhere.People like former premiers can speak out.Abhisit can lobby internationally.We've seen campaigns work before.Election victory is not a license for the government to do what it likes.The old cliche is true - all that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.I'm not quite sure what you mean by the people snubbed by the way.

[Plus]

Earlier you said:

"Signals need to be sent out to Chalerm NOW by the great and the good (not just activists or those with a political axe to grind)"

Abhisit and others fall under guys with political axe. There's only Anand among former Prime Ministers who is not an active player anymore, but what makes you think that he will sit it out or that Chalerm would listen to him?

[younghusband]

Earlier you said:

"Signals need to be sent out to Chalerm NOW by the great and the good (not just activists or those with a political axe to grind)"

Abhisit and others fall under guys with political axe. There's only Anand among former Prime Ministers who is not an active player anymore, but what makes you think that he will sit it out or that Chalerm would listen to him?

By political axe to grind I was referring mainly to anti Thaksin fanatics who grasped at anything to destroy their nemesis.Of course people like Abhisit can get involved and he's well placed to bang the drum internationally, lobby the UN Sec General for example, anything to name and shame.It's frankly shameful to think that decent Thais don't want to say what is the right thing "because Chalerm won't listen to them".

Frankly I'm a bit disappointed at your defeatism.The Bangkok middle classes can get out on the streets for some causes, why not this.I suppose my concern is that the educated and middle class people don't seem to really worry about the state "removing from circulation" those who for one reason or another don't fit.This is just one of myrid examples.

If what you are really saying that most Thais -regardless of class or income bracket -couldn't care less about illegal drug killings (and I wouldn't necessarily disagree) probably best to say so.

[Plus]

They won't march on the streets over drug war, that is certain.

Abhisit and others will respond to this new policy in the usual way, in parlament, if they haven't already. Right now it's in the early stages, there's nothng yet to really accuse Chalerm, parmalentary opposition is a heavy artillery, they shouldn't engage in a war of words on newspaper pages.

I don't think you'll find anyone neutral on Thaksin issue, they can all be accused of having axes. Thaksin (and you, btw, on this board), managed to turn their concerns about human rights into anti-Thaksin agenda, so rip what you sow.

[younghusband]

Thaksin (and you, btw, on this board), managed to turn their concerns about human rights into anti-Thaksin agenda, so rip what you sow.

Ignoring the rather odd personal reference, this is a strange spin implying the opposition to Thaksin was driven by human rights concerns.There were serious human rights concerns of course but the main opposition had different motives.

You do make a valid point of course that a campaign whether in parliament or outside can't get traction until abuses actually start.Still my main premise holds that the decent parts of Thai society can put Chalerm on warning.My guess is that some will.

[marshbags]

I'm coming around to accepting that idea... if the current General Forum thread gets moved over to the News Clipping Forum. It could be separated, as best as possible, from the this the previous War and still this could remain open for any posting on updates to specifically the Thaksin version of the War itself.

It might have been considered to name the newer thread Drug War 2 or such... but that wouldn't actually reflect the reality that Thaksin had sanctioned Drug War 1, Drug War 2, Drug War 3, and Drug War 4.

Keeping this open for ongoing updates relevant to Thaksins " EKj,s /War on Drugs makes common sense S.J., as changes are always being announced.

Perhaps move the new one to the News Clipping Forum and rename it PPP to Restart the Drug War

This would seperate the two into their respective era,s TRT, the initial one, and PPP the new one.

Perhaps a ref. note / url stating the other in each case is running so viewers can have knowledge / access of each for information / reference

marshbags

P.S.

As announcements are still being made relating to this thread, it makes sense to keep it open.

No matter what happens regarding the proposed New Drug War when it comes down to H.Rights issues they are seperate when investigated ect. so again it makes sense to keep them both going, thus avoiding any confusion ect.

IMHO as always

[Plus]

Thaksin (and you, btw, on this board), managed to turn their concerns about human rights into anti-Thaksin agenda, so rip what you sow.

Ignoring the rather odd personal reference, this is a strange spin implying the opposition to Thaksin was driven by human rights concerns.There were serious human rights concerns of course but the main opposition had different motives.

It's not that the opposition to Thaksin was driven by human rights concerns, it's the other way around allegation - every time human rights were mentioned it was brushed aside as an excuse to further anti-Thaksin agenda. You took an active part in discrediting Kraisak's commission and any attempts to bring this issue to light in junta's days, I think you deserve to be mentioned.

My point is, you won't see any new sources of opposition to the drug war, it will be all familiar faces, and, interestingly, mostly from people who sided with the military. Charan's support for the next round because he is on "democracy" side now demonstrates this perfectly - people who opposed the junta have no democratic legs to stand on themselves. Maybe he is just an exception, but do you honestly expect anyone connected to PPP to oppose the drug war?

[younghusband]

It's not that the opposition to Thaksin was driven by human rights concerns, it's the other way around allegation - every time human rights were mentioned it was brushed aside as an excuse to further anti-Thaksin agenda. You took an active part in discrediting Kraisak's commission and any attempts to bring this issue to light in junta's days, I think you deserve to be mentioned.

If you insist on personalising this get your facts right.I actually felt that Kraisak was doing a good job and said so accordingly.I made the point however that the political support of the junta was motivated mainly by the desire to nail Thaksin.When it was realised that this wouldn't really be possible without revealing the feudal elite's own involvement, all went quiet.Why do you think Surayud watered down the commission's conclusions?

[Plus]

I said Kraisak's commission, not Kraisak's personally. He wasn't alone there, and support for his work came from various sides. You dismissed them all then just as you dismiss them now as agents of "feudal elite".

Now it looks like these people are the only ones that care in this country.

[younghusband]

I said Kraisak's commission, not Kraisak's personally. He wasn't alone there, and support for his work came from various sides. You dismissed them all then just as you dismiss them now as agents of "feudal elite".

Now it looks like these people are the only ones that care in this country.

Do you understand what an "agent" is? The point I made was that the decent people involved in the enquiry were "used" by those with a narrow political agenda, feudal elite if you like.I never thought of the Kraisak Commission and others as "agents", anymore than I thought of some on this forum with genuine moral indignation such as Marchbanks as "agents".

You ignore my question btw why Surayud watered down the commission;s findings.

[marshbags]

The Nation 26-02-2008

EDITORIAL

No to another war on drugs

Samak government's rhetoric reminiscent of Thaksin's bloody campaign and its rights abusesPublished on February 25, 2008

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej and Interior Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung are not famous for their blunt manner of speech for nothing. The crudity of their tone and aggressive demeanour are probably two personal traits that endear them to many simple folks in this country. But the interior minister's announcement, backed by Samak, that the government would launch a war on drugs similar to former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra's 2003 campaign is a cause for worry. After all, more than 2,500 suspected drug traffickers were killed in just three months during Thaksin's campaign. Strong suspicions were raised about gross human-rights violations, and the government was roundly condemned by civil-rights advocates and the international community.

Thaksin claimed that most of the deaths were the result of drug-pushers killing one another in order to avoid being implicated in the illicit drug trade, and that only in a small number of cases were suspects killed by police while resisting arrest.

But the former prime minister was believed to have given tacit approval for widespread extrajudicial killings by police when he instructed law-enforcement officials to "eliminate drugs from society" through the use of "extreme measures".

What was disturbing was that the majority of the Thai public approved of Thaksin's drug war and his popularity ratings soared.

Now Chalerm is sending out a similar message, saying that he would not mind if a few thousand drug suspects were eliminated by their comrades in crime. Asked to comment on the interior minister's planned crackdown on drugs, Samak upped the ante by saying he couldn't care less if 5,000 drug pushers were killed by their own kind.

The prime minister said that no one should be sorry to see suspected drug traffickers die in large numbers. Of course, neither Chalerm nor Samak said they would order police to shoot to kill drug suspects on sight.

But such crass statements from government leaders who claim to wield the public mandate won through a democratic election go against the very principle of the supremacy of the rule of law. That principle states that all suspected criminals must be presumed innocent until proven otherwise and that every one of them has a right to the due process of the law.

Even if it were true that the cancerous spread of illicit drugs, particularly methamphetamines, in Thailand has reached epidemic proportions, and that attempts at combating the drug scourge have not produced results that are anywhere near satisfactory, there can be no justification for law-enforcement officials taking the law into their own hands and killing off suspected drug dealers.

It is too simplistic for the government to be fixated on a get-tough policy against drug traffickers without also implementing preventive measures through innovative public education campaigns aimed at reducing the demand for drugs, especially amphetamines, which have become the lifestyle drug of choice for many young people.

Known drug abusers should be encouraged to undergo rehabilitation programmes to help them kick the habit.

A whole gamut of anti-drug measures should be brought to bear against those involved in the illicit trade: strict law enforcement should be complemented by asset forfeiture against big- and small-time drug dealers.

It is sad to see our top political leaders stoop so low and show such utter disrespect for the rule of law and human rights in this country just a short time after a functioning democracy has been restored.

Equal protection and due process are among the most important hallmarks of the rule of law, which makes democratic rule possible. Let's not forget that Thaksin's dirty war on drug traffickers, which tainted the country's human-rights record and compromised the conscience of the nation, also marked the beginning of the end of democracy, which ended up losing its true meaning.

No democracy can survive abuses such as state-sponsored terror against its citizens.

The Nation

[marshbags]

Bangkok Post sunday 09-03-2008

Quote:-

The unjust war

By Kamolwat Praprutitum

The Thaksin Shinawatra government will never fully recover from the crushing assault to its name for waging a war on drugs, and this government must think carefully before launching a new drugs offensive.

At the cost of 2,500-plus lives, the 2003 campaign was trumpeted by supporters who said it had pulled down the floodgates on the torrents of drugs flowing into, through and throughout the country.

In the process, it splatteed blood on the country's human rights record, as some human rights advocates have phrased it.

Five years on and the new government is all fired up with plans to form a national centre with the prime minister as chairman to flush out illicit drugs. This is ominously familiar.

Unquote.

Please go to the following for the complete article:-

Ref. url.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=126395

marshbags

[marshbags]

Bangkok Post,General news, Tuesday March 25, 2008

No fighting drug war alone

The controversial war on drugs, carried out by the Thaksin Shinawatra administration in 2003, is set to be revived tomorrow when Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej is due to chair a meeting on reviving the campaign. Still, the government does not appear to have any concrete plans to make the campaign a success. Nor were there any clear signs concerning this matter emerging from talks between Mr Samak and his counterparts during his recent visits to neighbouring countries.

Ref the url for full article :-

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/25Mar2008_news11.php

Inconsistant and disengenuine remarks that suggest there is no intention of addressing the drugs issue.

Education and much needed support are and always have been the way to go, not selected extermination / murder of the lower rungs of the ladder related to the " What are judged as insignificant members of society and therefore justified canon foder to once again excuse murder and illimination. " who are used and exploited by the Barons / Puyai, due to various circumstances and dependancy via addiction, ect.

The upper section of the ladder just sit back and await a convenient time to then start the vicious cycle off again, for monetary gains and self interest / greed for yet more monetary gains, which in turn = power, Thai style and high positions in society as we know it to be.

IMH and HO of course.

marshbags

[sriracha john]

Thaksin's lawyers are back to suing critics...

Democrat MP Reports to Police over Thaksin's Defamation Charge

A Democrat MP and a former member of the National Human Rights Comittee reported to the police to hear the defamation charge filed against them by deposed Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, following their remarks on the death of thousands of drug dealer suspects during the war against narcotics.

Party-list MP of the opposition Democrat Party Kraisak Chunhawan and a former member of the National Human Rights Committee, Wasan Panit, visited Narng Leong police station today to acknowledge the defamation charge filed by deposed Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Thai Day Dot Com Company, the operator of ASTV, is also named in the suit.

Thaksin's representative, Wasuthep Srisoda, pressed charges earlier with Narng Leong police station, accusing Kraisak and Wasant of misleading the People's Alliance for Democracy's rally-goers and ASTV's viewers.

The two accused claimed on the PAD rally stage that the deaths of 2,500 drug dealer suspects were caused by the Thaksin administration's war against narcotics.

Meanwhile, ASTV is accused of broadcasting remarks that caused damage to Thaksin's image.

Kraisak and Wasan denied the accusations and were later released after the questioning concluded.

- Thailand Outlook / Aug. 4, 2008

[Tony Clifton]

I see Coward the Great is nothing but a simple eunuch with no testicles filing defamation charges while he's in hiding abroad. Hiiiaaaa.

[baanthale]

I see Coward the Great is nothing but a simple eunuch with no testicles filing defamation charges while he's in hiding abroad. Hiiiaaaa.

But I'm sure he is man enough to deal with his neighbors dog if needed. Also sure he's man enough to drive his car, without using his wife as a private chauffeur

[Tony Clifton]

I see Coward the Great is nothing but a simple eunuch with no testicles filing defamation charges while he's in hiding abroad. Hiiiaaaa.

But I'm sure he is man enough to deal with his neighbors dog if needed. Also sure he's man enough to drive his car, without using his wife as a private chauffeur

<deleted> is that all about?

Man enough to deal with his neighbour s dog?

Are you saying here you went to pick some b*llshit in another thread and brought it over here? I m not man enough to deal with my neighbours dog when I m moving in a month? Why would I bother when two shouting matches did nothing? Most would say it is a smart move to ignore and avoid my assh*le of a neighbour and his 3 untied dogs.

As for my wife driving. I suffer from severe road rage when driving in Thailand, most again would approve of my decision not to drive instead of getting into trouble.

Thaksin who had thousands of his fellow citizens murdered is seen here taking care of his neighbour's dog.

[Bangyai]

Its curious how many people loathe Taksin, both Thais and Foreigners. And yet it wasn't so long ago that under the Suchinda ' govournment ' ( ? ) soldiers and police were shooting pro democracy demonstrators in the streets. The current prime minister, Mr Samak is on record as saying that there was only 1 death during these demonstrations, an awful slap in the face to anyone who lost a loved one. If Mr Taksin is to be held to account for his corrupt leadership shouldn't people also be demanding justice for those killed during the last coup. However, if you mention this to many Thais there answer is likely to be '....don't go there '. Its a taboo subject if you value your safety.

To call a Thai politician corrupt, is, as Martin Sheen put it, ' like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500 '. To be corrupt is almost a prerequisit if you want to get ahead in local politics. And has anybody who reads the Bangkok Post noticed that from time to time there is a free supplement anouncing the opening of a new factory somewhere. Inside there will be a ' family tree ' of the company executives and perched on the top branches there is nearly always a General this or that. They seem to have expertise in just about everything, from making cars to turning out furniture. Wonderfully useful.

But now it appears that one family, Mr Taksins is responsible for all the ills in the country and if only he can be stripped of his fortune and locked away everything will be roses roses. Dream on. Until EVERYONE in a position of public responsibility is held to account there will continue to be roller coaster politics with the rich and influential playing musical chairs while the poor keep the country going.