Do USA citizen need to pay tax in Thailand?

[Dipterocarp]

The OP knows EU and US tax law already and knows the answers, so why ask what is already known? To claim bragging rights over US citizens? Nothing they can do about it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[F4UCorsair]

OP, you cannot legally avoid paying tax somewhere. If you earn money, you must pay tax to some government.

You're riding high on the hog right now, thinking you're in the clear, but you will be called upon to pay tax at some time in the future, and in all probability, it will be retrospective, along with a fine, usually for the amount of tax avoided, but can be considerably higher.

Edited June 20, 2016 by F4UCorsair

[F4UCorsair]

I should feel guilty now . I don't pay tax at all, not even file... nothing. will I be in trouble?

Yes, you will, at some time in the future, and when you least expect it. If you're not paying to your own government back in Europe, then you should be paying in Thailand. There have been many who have gone down your path, but very few have walked away scot free.

I have to say that the OP has the hallmarks of a troll post.

Edited June 20, 2016 by F4UCorsair

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Thanks. So is there a website to file the tax online? Or is it a complicated process and needs a lawyer to file?

There are several software companies that have products that walk you through the tax process and will file electronically. Prices range from free to a couple hundred dollars, The free versions are typically limited in what they can handle and may only be available if your income is below a certain threshold. I'm not sure if the free versions would handle foreign income, as the companies try to push you to more expensive versions if you have any non-typical cases.

Alternatively, you can hire an accountant to fill in the forms and file, or if you are the accountant type, you can fill in the forms directly and file.

I believe the online version of TurboTax Premier, which runs about $70 or less with credit union member discounts, will handle everything and includes electronic filing of one's federal return. I noodled around with it last year, and it included support for foreign income credits/deductions.

They have a couple of lower/expensive packages available. But I'm not sure if those support foreign income or not, as well as other things like K-1 statements issued by Master Limited Partnerships (MLPs). The Premier version handles all that and various other stock market stuff..

Edited June 20, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[thaihome]

If u pay thai tax on the full income of 200,000 $ at 35 % , its 70,000 . If We Minus it as foreign tax credit from a taxable 92,000 $, its still 22,000 $ income left to be paid the US Tax? Isnt it?

It is a credit, not a deduction, so it is subtracted from the amount owed in taxes, not from the taxable income. It is a non-refundable credit, so if it is more than was owed in tax, it only reduces the amount to $0, unlike the earned income credit, which can actually result in a tax refund if the credit amount is more than is owed in taxes.

There is also a foreign tax deduction that would be subtracted from income instead, but it is rarely used because you need to choose either the credit or deduction (not both), so the credit almost always results in lower taxes.

Actually, you can take the foreign income exclusion and there is a formula on the foriegn tax credit form that calculates how much your foriegn tax credit is on the foriegn tax on the income above the exclusion so you can use both the foriegn income exclusion and the foriegn tax credit. You can also carry over any unused foriegn tax credits to future years (for 5 years I believe).

TH

[Naam]

OP, you cannot legally avoid paying tax somewhere. If you earn money, you must pay tax to some government.

You're riding high on the hog right now, thinking you're in the clear, but you will be called upon to pay tax at some time in the future, and in all probability, it will be retrospective, along with a fine, usually for the amount of tax avoided, but can be considerably higher.

little do you know about tax liabilities

[rwdrwdrwd]

OP, you cannot legally avoid paying tax somewhere. If you earn money, you must pay tax to some government.

You're riding high on the hog right now, thinking you're in the clear, but you will be called upon to pay tax at some time in the future, and in all probability, it will be retrospective, along with a fine, usually for the amount of tax avoided, but can be considerably higher.

That is completely untrue.

One example of many.

1 - British citizen, resident in Thailand

2 - All income is earned from USA and paid to a personal account in Hong Kong

3 - Income is held in Hong Kong and remitted to Thailand on the subsequent January 1st

This is entirely legally tax free because:

1 - Britain does not tax foreign income of non residents.

2 - Hong Kong does not tax non HK income of non residents.

3 - Thailand only taxes foreign income remitted to Thailand in the year it is earned.

Edited June 21, 2016 by rwdrwdrwd

[Naam]

OP, you cannot legally avoid paying tax somewhere. If you earn money, you must pay tax to some government.

You're riding high on the hog right now, thinking you're in the clear, but you will be called upon to pay tax at some time in the future, and in all probability, it will be retrospective, along with a fine, usually for the amount of tax avoided, but can be considerably higher.

That is completely untrue.

One example of many.

1 - British citizen, resident in Thailand

2 - All income is earned from USA and paid to a personal account in Hong Kong

3 - Income is held in Hong Kong and remitted to Thailand on the subsequent January 1st

This is entirely legally tax free because:

1 - Britain does not tax foreign income of non residents.

2 - Hong Kong does not tax non HK income of non residents.

3 - Thailand only taxes foreign income remitted to Thailand in the year it is earned.

nail... head!

but no matter how often you explain a quite simple tax situation there will always be some 'know-it-all' (who possesses a wealth of no idea about taxes) insisting "that can't be!"

[thaihome]

OP, you cannot legally avoid paying tax somewhere. If you earn money, you must pay tax to some government.

You're riding high on the hog right now, thinking you're in the clear, but you will be called upon to pay tax at some time in the future, and in all probability, it will be retrospective, along with a fine, usually for the amount of tax avoided, but can be considerably higher.

That is completely untrue.

One example of many.

1 - British citizen, resident in Thailand

2 - All income is earned from USA and paid to a personal account in Hong Kong

3 - Income is held in Hong Kong and remitted to Thailand on the subsequent January 1st

This is entirely legally tax free because:

1 - Britain does not tax foreign income of non residents.

2 - Hong Kong does not tax non HK income of non residents.

3 - Thailand only taxes foreign income remitted to Thailand in the year it is earned.

nail... head!

but no matter how often you explain a quite simple tax situation there will always be some 'know-it-all' (who possesses a wealth of no idea about taxes) insisting "that can't be!"

Do you stick to only interest bearing or capital gain potential type investments to avoid US tax?

TH

[Naam]

Do you stick to only interest bearing or capital gain potential type investments to avoid US tax?

TH

i'm not sure what you mean TH. are you referring to US income tax (applicable only to US citizens and US persons) or US withholding tax on dividends applicable also to non-US persons?

[returnofthailand]

some people here make me laugh here by their degree of ignorance.

I don't have to pay tax because I m not a resident . I didn't file for residence for years.

I don't have kids going to school, I m not married.

guys, you have been brainwashed by the "everybody have to pay tax".

there are millions of people who pay no tax at all and have and make money. I m one of these.

i have nothing to worry, I can not be taxed on income , taxed and fined by who? again my country can not tax me as I m Not a resident. for this privilege, all you need is to be a citizen of a country who tax on residence and leave your country (this big advantage is only for all countries in the world except USA and etria)

if you are an etria citizen sorry guys, you are screwed. and if you were born in the USA, you are screwed even further as it's not possible to give up your USA citizenship if born in the "land of the free"

Edited June 22, 2016 by returnofthailand

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

That's all well and good.... but you seem to have forgotten the title of the thread that you yourself started here:

Do USA citizen need to pay tax in Thailand?

Not what Germans, or Brits or others can do and do do.

The reality is, all the things you're talking about in your personal situation don't apply at all to American citizens, nor do they really apply to the subject of your thread.

Edited June 22, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[beachproperty]

some people here make me laugh here by their degree of ignorance.

I don't have to pay tax because I m not a resident . I didn't file for residence for years.

I don't have kids going to school, I m not married.

guys, you have been brainwashed by the "everybody have to pay tax".

there are millions of people who pay no tax at all and have and make money. I m one of these.

i have nothing to worry, I can not be taxed on income , taxed and fined by who? again my country can not tax me as I m Not a resident. for this privilege, all you need is to be a citizen of a country who tax on residence and leave your country (this big advantage is only for all countries in the world except USA and etria)

if you are an etria citizen sorry guys, you are screwed. and if you were born in the USA, you are screwed even further as it's not possible to give up your USA citizenship if born in the "land of the free"

You have a passport....Where is it from?

[JimGant]

2 - All income is earned from USA and paid to a personal account in Hong Kong

As TH alluded to, not all income derived from US sources escapes taxation by non resident aliens. Yes, portfolio interest is not taxable; but dividends are. You do get a break, however, from the flat 30% withholding at source due to tax treaty; file a W8BEN, and only have 15% withheld. And most capital gains are tax exempt, except for those related to real estate. Have rental property? You pay US taxes on the net income by filing a 1040NR (non resident) -- superior to having your renter withhold 30% via 1042-S, with no tax treaty break. Have a US Social Security check from the years you worked in the States? Welcome to 30% withholding on 85% of your payments -- and no tax treaty protection.

but no matter how often you explain a quite simple tax situation there will always be some 'know-it-all' (who possesses a wealth of no idea about taxes) insisting "that can't be!"

Yep, the grey area of taxation always invites pushback.

[Naam]

some people here make me laugh here by their degree of ignorance.

I don't have to pay tax because I m not a resident . I didn't file for residence for years.

I don't have kids going to school, I m not married.

guys, you have been brainwashed by the "everybody have to pay tax".

there are millions of people who pay no tax at all and have and make money. I m one of these.

i have nothing to worry, I can not be taxed on income , taxed and fined by who? again my country can not tax me as I m Not a resident. for this privilege, all you need is to be a citizen of a country who tax on residence and leave your country (this big advantage is only for all countries in the world except USA and etria)

if you are an etria citizen sorry guys, you are screwed. and if you were born in the USA, you are screwed even further as it's not possible to give up your USA citizenship if born in the "land of the free"

Record Numbers Renounce Their U.S. Citizenship

Once again, the number of Americans renouncing U.S. citizenship has gone up, up 560% from its Bush administration high. In 2015, there were approximately 4,300 expatriations according to the published names of individuals who renounced. The name and shame list is published quarterly, with the most recent three-month total being 1,058. That brings the total to 4,279 for 2015.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2016/02/06/record-numbers-renounce-their-u-s-citizenship/#1d19816ea6e6

[zierf1]

no taxes if you earn under $100k/yr. if a usa expat is worried about taxes i always advise them to send money to their wifey's account. you can have the wifey set you up a stealth account with an atm.

Edited June 22, 2016 by zierf1

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

if a usa expat is worried about taxes i always advise them to send money to their wifey's account. you can have the wifey set you up a stealth account with an atm.

That's a truly inspired suggestion... except:

--my U.S. banks report the interest I earn to the IRS.

--my Thai banks report or share info on the interest I earn with the IRS.

--my U.S. brokerages report the dividends, cap gain, etc. I earn to the IRS.

--my U.S. pension provider reports the payments I receive to the IRS

--when I'm hopefully old enough to receive Social Security, those payments will get reported to the IRS...

So please tell me how taking any of those funds and routing them into my wife's account is going to accomplish anything, except take the money out of my own pocket...

[partington]

2 - All income is earned from USA and paid to a personal account in Hong Kong

As TH alluded to, not all income derived from US sources escapes taxation by non resident aliens. Yes, portfolio interest is not taxable; but dividends are. You do get a break, however, from the flat 30% withholding at source due to tax treaty; file a W8BEN, and only have 15% withheld. And most capital gains are tax exempt, except for those related to real estate. Have rental property? You pay US taxes on the net income by filing a 1040NR (non resident) -- superior to having your renter withhold 30% via 1042-S, with no tax treaty break. Have a US Social Security check from the years you worked in the States? Welcome to 30% withholding on 85% of your payments -- and no tax treaty protection.

but no matter how often you explain a quite simple tax situation there will always be some 'know-it-all' (who possesses a wealth of no idea about taxes) insisting "that can't be!"

Yep, the grey area of taxation always invites pushback.

Just wanted to add that for UK citizens who are UK residents (unlike the person quoted above who is Thailand resident) currently a tax treaty with the US means there is a tax rate of 0% on social security payments resulting from years worked in the US.

Of course this means that you pay tax on these payments in the UK instead, so they're not tax free, but they will almost certainly be subject to less than 30% withholding in the UK , so it's worth knowing.

[Naam]

if a usa expat is worried about taxes i always advise them to send money to their wifey's account. you can have the wifey set you up a stealth account with an atm.

That's a truly inspired suggestion... except:

--my U.S. banks report the interest I earn to the IRS.

--my Thai banks report or share info on the interest I earn with the IRS.

--my U.S. brokerages report the dividends, cap gain, etc. I earn to the IRS.

--my U.S. pension provider reports the payments I receive to the IRS

--when I'm hopefully old enough to receive Social Security, those payments will get reported to the IRS...

So please tell me how taking any of those funds and routing them into my wife's account is going to accomplish anything, except take the money out of my own pocket...

you are right and "Zierf1" is wrong. you could avoid taxes by transferring some of your assets to your wife, assuming she is Thai and neither US citizen nor holder of a green card. but that is not advisable because it would be clearly tax fraud if you are benefitting from these "savings".

[returnofthailand]

I understand there is no way to avoid being taxed(for americans) . you pay tax in Thailand or in the USA.

you must file a tax report to the irs if you make more than 1000$

90k$ are deductible if you pay tax in Thailand. but you still need to pay your tax in Thailand and prove it to the irs. correct?

I heard now that the irs is raiding many accounts. so if you have over 10k in non usa account and you are part of the USA club, I hope you filed with fbar

it sucks to be an American . especially if you are young.

I will show up to my country and tell them I don't pay tax. how can I? there is no interview like in the USA , I just pass a gate at the airport with my chiped passport and I m inside my country after scanning myself my passport.

I think nobody have asked me any questions since I was born except if I had something to declare.

Edited June 23, 2016 by returnofthailand

[beachproperty]

I understand there is no way to avoid being taxed(for americans) . you pay tax in Thailand or in the USA.

you must file a tax report to the irs if you make more than 1000$

90k$ are deductible if you pay tax in Thailand. but you still need to pay your tax in Thailand and prove it to the irs. correct?

I heard now that the irs is raiding many accounts. so if you have over 10k in non usa account and you are part of the USA club, I hope you filed with fbar

it sucks to be an American. I will show up to my country and tell them I don't pay tax. how can I? there is no interview anyway like in the USA , I just pass a gate at the airport with my chiped passport and I m inside my country.

I think nobody have asked me any questions since I was born except if I had something to declare.

AND what country would that be that your from? where is your passport issued?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

if a usa expat is worried about taxes i always advise them to send money to their wifey's account. you can have the wifey set you up a stealth account with an atm.

That's a truly inspired suggestion... except:

--my U.S. banks report the interest I earn to the IRS.

--my Thai banks report or share info on the interest I earn with the IRS.

--my U.S. brokerages report the dividends, cap gain, etc. I earn to the IRS.

--my U.S. pension provider reports the payments I receive to the IRS

--when I'm hopefully old enough to receive Social Security, those payments will get reported to the IRS...

So please tell me how taking any of those funds and routing them into my wife's account is going to accomplish anything, except take the money out of my own pocket...

you are right and "Zierf1" is wrong. you could avoid taxes by transferring some of your assets to your wife, assuming she is Thai and neither US citizen nor holder of a green card. but that is not advisable because it would be clearly tax fraud if you are benefitting from these "savings".

OK, so now we're talking about the difference between Zierf's sending "money" and your use of the term ASSETS, which is an entirely different matter.

AFAIK, Americans can legally GIFT to anyone they choose up to $14K or so in cash per year, without any U.S. tax reporting requirements or consequences for the giving or receiving party. And, if that money happened to have income earning potential, then obviously that income earning potential would be removed from the giver's pocket and put into the receiver's pocket.

And AFAIK, there'd be absolutely nothing illegal or inappropriate about that under U.S. laws. And, if the receiver happened to be a NON-U.S. person in terms of U.S. tax law (and you're not doing a married filing jointly U.S. tax return), then obviously, there'd be no U.S. tax obligation created on the receiver's part -- not for having received the gift, and not for any future income produced by the proceeds of that gift.

Though a Thai citizen presumably would then have a Thai tax obligation related to any future earnings produced by the gifted money in whatever Thai investment the money might be placed.

Edited June 23, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

I understand there is no way to avoid being taxed(for americans) . you pay tax in Thailand or in the USA.

you must file a tax report to the irs if you make more than 1000$

90k$ are deductible if you pay tax in Thailand. but you still need to pay your tax in Thailand and prove it to the irs. correct?

I heard now that the irs is raiding many accounts. so if you have over 10k in non usa account and you are part of the USA club, I hope you filed with fbar

it sucks to be an American. I will show up to my country and tell them I don't pay tax. how can I? there is no interview anyway like in the USA , I just pass a gate at the airport with my chiped passport and I m inside my country.

I think nobody have asked me any questions since I was born except if I had something to declare.

AND what country would that be that your from? where is your passport issued?

,

Oh, returnofthailand probably has at least a half dozen passports. I wouldn't hold your breath in him telling you what country he's from, what passport(s) he holds based on some of his quotes below from earlier in the thread. And would you believe him even if he did? He just says he a EU citizen. He makes it sound like as a EU citizen they don't have to be concerned about any taxes ever as long as they keep moving around the world, not even the tax system of their home country such as Germany, France, UK, and any other country making up the EU...and makes it sound like EU membership overrides all home country tax requirements (what ever they may be). But he sure seems to have a hang-up about the U.S. tax system even though he apparently an EU citizen. Strange.

I am not a resident of Europe, I m a EU citizen making me off radar for income tax in Europe as I don't reside in Europe.

I m not a US citizen and I have no residence on earth. I m just a tourist in Thailand. I m a PT.

[JimGant]

I think nobody have asked me any questions since I was born except if I had something to declare.

Kind of a waste of time to ask questions of someone with a blank stare -- and drooling.

[Pib]

Hey, my bad, maybe he's Portuguese since he said he's PT. Unless PT means something else like Pregnant Teenager, etc....so many abbreviations and slang now days to sometimes confuse tax issues.

[Naam]

Hey, my bad, maybe he's Portuguese since he said he's PT. Unless PT means something else like Pregnant Teenager, etc....so many abbreviations and slang now days to sometimes confuse tax issues.

PT = permanent traveller

[Pib]

Hey, my bad, maybe he's Portuguese since he said he's PT. Unless PT means something else like Pregnant Teenager, etc....so many abbreviations and slang now days to sometimes confuse tax issues.

PT = permanent traveller

OK, thanks for that clarification. Now we are back to a EU citizen (specific country unknown at this time) being concerned about the U.S. tax laws for U.S. folks living outside the U.S. That's OK...we all have strange concerns.

[Naam]

if a usa expat is worried about taxes i always advise them to send money to their wifey's account. you can have the wifey set you up a stealth account with an atm.

That's a truly inspired suggestion... except:

--my U.S. banks report the interest I earn to the IRS.

--my Thai banks report or share info on the interest I earn with the IRS.

--my U.S. brokerages report the dividends, cap gain, etc. I earn to the IRS.

--my U.S. pension provider reports the payments I receive to the IRS

--when I'm hopefully old enough to receive Social Security, those payments will get reported to the IRS...

So please tell me how taking any of those funds and routing them into my wife's account is going to accomplish anything, except take the money out of my own pocket...

you are right and "Zierf1" is wrong. you could avoid taxes by transferring some of your assets to your wife, assuming she is Thai and neither US citizen nor holder of a green card. but that is not advisable because it would be clearly tax fraud if you are benefitting from these "savings".

OK, so now we're talking about the difference between Zierf's sending "money" and your use of the term ASSETS, which is an entirely different matter.

AFAIK, Americans can legally GIFT to anyone they choose up to $14K or so in cash per year, without any U.S. tax reporting requirements or consequences for the giving or receiving party. And, if that money happened to have income earning potential, then obviously that income earning potential would be removed from the giver's pocket and put into the receiver's pocket.

And AFAIK, there'd be absolutely nothing illegal or inappropriate about that under U.S. laws. And, if the receiver happened to be a NON-U.S. person in terms of U.S. tax law (and you're not doing a married filing jointly U.S. tax return), then obviously, there'd be no U.S. tax obligation created on the receiver's part -- not for having received the gift, and not for any future income produced by the proceeds of that gift.

Though a Thai citizen presumably would then have a Thai tax obligation related to any future earnings produced by the gifted money in whatever Thai investment the money might be placed.

-where's the tax saving gifting $14k cash? only gift tax is saved but income tax on the gifted amount is or has been already levied.

-why would a potential Thai partner invest in Thailand generating an income tax liability instead of investing it offshore?

-why would anybody living abroad report to the IRS that he/she has gifted x-amount Dollars instead of pretending having it spent?

[sas_cars]

Hey, my bad, maybe he's Portuguese since he said he's PT. Unless PT means something else like Pregnant Teenager, etc....so many abbreviations and slang now days to sometimes confuse tax issues.

PT = permanent traveller

OK, thanks for that clarification. Now we are back to a EU citizen (specific country unknown at this time) being concerned about the U.S. tax laws for U.S. folks living outside the U.S. That's OK...we all have strange concerns.

Myself I m a non-US citizen myself so nothing here concerns me, but I just had my child born in NY last month, so that's why I m here collecting information on this topic, to be told to my kid later on in life.

[Pib]

Myself I m a non-US citizen myself so nothing here concerns me, but I just had my child born in NY last month, so that's why I m here collecting information on this topic, to be told to my kid later on in life.

Durn good reason. Assuming your child will have another citizenship under his/her belt, the child can always renounce U.S. citizenship once old enough. If going to do that probably best to do it before coming of working age/going out into the world on his/her own. Could be a tough decision to make depending on the environment the child grows up in and prefers to live in, associated benefits, etc. Seems like there are always pluses and minuses to having dual citizen between any two countries....can get complicated sometimes and not only for taxes. Hope it all works out.

F. RENUNCIATION FOR MINOR CHILDREN/INCOMPETENTS

Citizenship is a status that is personal to the U.S. citizen. Therefore parents may not renounce the citizenship of their minor children. Similarly, parents/legal guardians may not renounce the citizenship of individuals who are mentally incompetent. Minors seeking to renounce their U.S. citizenship must demonstrate to a consular officer that they are acting voluntarily and that they fully understand the implications/consequences attendant to the renunciation of U.S. citizenship.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Pib