So what did the Brexit supporters gain?

[Naam]

9 minutes ago, GuestHouse said:

The UK has not left the EU.

why spoil with simple facts a wet dream? 

[Naam]

2 hours ago, i claudius said:

if we are still in the EU ,why did the pound drop when we"left"

Sterling did not drop and the British ship sailed away to economic areas where milk and honey flows. don't believe the ugly rumours spread by shady politicians in Brussels by orders of Empress Angie I.

[sandyf]

3 hours ago, i claudius said:

Well its time to admit it ,us brexiteers were wrong , manufacturing in the UK is up , retail sales are booming ,unemployment is down  and the no of people on the  dole has dropped , we are selling more goods to Asi----  oh hang on , sorry ,mistake ,we seem to have got it right , drat it

Incorrect information, manufacturing is not up, it is manufactured exports that are up. Manufacturers are reaping the benefit from selling existing stock against a weak pound. When current factory gate prices on raw materials filter through to stock, prices will rise and sales will decline.

If as predicted by the leavers the pound was to have made a dramatic recovery then manufacturers would have been in for a very nasty shock, not that that is likely any time soon.

[MissAndry]

6 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Incorrect information, manufacturing is not up, it is manufactured exports that are up. Manufacturers are reaping the benefit from selling existing stock against a weak pound. When current factory gate prices on raw materials filter through to stock, prices will rise and sales will decline.

If as predicted by the leavers the pound was to have made a dramatic recovery then manufacturers would have been in for a very nasty shock, not that that is likely any time soon.

 

Raw material prices are down 40% on 2 years ago. Prices should be going down.

[sandyf]

This is a clear indication that the government is considering the free movement policy, you cannot have an 'open' border where free movement is not allowed. The reference to other countries is pertaining to non EU countries in the EEA where both allow free movement.

Once the UK is no longer an EU member, the border in Ireland would become an 'external' border of the EU and as such would come under the control of FRONTEX, unless of course the UK is part of the single market.

 

 

Brexit minister David Davis underlines 'open border' aim

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-37238279

[sandyf]

17 minutes ago, MissAndry said:

 

Raw material prices are down 40% on 2 years ago. Prices should be going down.

UK factory gate prices see biggest rise since 2014 after Brexit slump in sterling

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-inflation-idUKKCN10R0Q9

[Khun Han]

I notice that remainers are now saying the sky will fall eventually. Is my memory playing tricks on me? I need to go back and re-read the discussions that followed the brexit vote. I'm damned sure the remainer predictions were immediate recession due to the world immediately pulling out of Britain Inc.

 

Any advances on the daft, convoluted excuses put forward so far, remainers? You're starting to tie yourselves up in knots .

[Khun Han]

6 hours ago, sandyf said:

UK factory gate prices see biggest rise since 2014 after Brexit slump in sterling

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-inflation-idUKKCN10R0Q9

 

That article refers to factory gate prices, and makes no specific reference to statistical prices of raw materials.

[Khun Han]

6 hours ago, sandyf said:

This is a clear indication that the government is considering the free movement policy, you cannot have an 'open' border where free movement is not allowed. The reference to other countries is pertaining to non EU countries in the EEA where both allow free movement.

Once the UK is no longer an EU member, the border in Ireland would become an 'external' border of the EU and as such would come under the control of FRONTEX, unless of course the UK is part of the single market.

 

 

Brexit minister David Davis underlines 'open border' aim

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-37238279

 

Huh??? You're desperate! This is nothing more than a feeler for maintaining the traditional soft border between the UK and ROI.

[GuestHouse]

52 minutes ago, MissAndry said:

 

Raw material prices are down 40% on 2 years ago. Prices should be going down.

 

Raw material prices are down, but the drop in the £ increases the relative price paid by UK companies compared to their international competitors.

[MissAndry]

4 minutes ago, GuestHouse said:

 

Raw material prices are down, but the drop in the £ increases the relative price paid by UK companies compared to their international competitors.

 Raw materials -40%, exchange rate +10%, wages - 10%

Can you do simple math?

 

Now the problem is the British government appears to be doing everything possible to harm British nationals, I can't see the reason for that. But it's the way it is. They love non-whites, they love non British. It doesn't appear that other governments act this way, it just seems to be the British government.

Edited September 2, 2016 by MissAndry

[sandyf]

12 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Huh??? You're desperate! This is nothing more than a feeler for maintaining the traditional soft border between the UK and ROI.

Maybe a bit of homework is required.

" Frontex helps border authorities from different EU countries work together. Frontex’s full title is the European Agency for the Management of Operational Cooperation at the External Borders of the Member States of the European Union. The agency was set up in 2004 to reinforce and streamline cooperation between national border authorities. In pursuit of this goal, Frontex has several operational areas which are defined in the founding Frontex Regulation and a subsequent amendment. "

http://frontex.europa.eu/

[Khun Han]

^ What point are you trying to make? If the UK and ROI want a soft border, they will have one (they have one by default anyway). And it will have no practical pressure from third party influences. You remainers put an absurd amount of weight on the power and influence of the EU and it's associated agencies. What happened to your thinking???

[autanic]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

This is a clear indication that the government is considering the free movement policy, you cannot have an 'open' border where free movement is not allowed. The reference to other countries is pertaining to non EU countries in the EEA where both allow free movement.

Once the UK is no longer an EU member, the border in Ireland would become an 'external' border of the EU and as such would come under the control of FRONTEX, unless of course the UK is part of the single market.

 

 

Brexit minister David Davis underlines 'open border' aim

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-37238279

 

An open border with Ireland was agreed over 80 years ago, nothing to do with the EU.

[i claudius]

5 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

What's the point? Time will need to pass ... the terms of exit and the consequences of exit will take several years ... and if it does put the UK in a poor position you and your like will say it would have been so much worse inside the UK. 

 

I love it , yes the remainers were telling us the sky would fall ,the four horesmen of the apocalypse were going to come and a plague of locusts would descend the moment we voted to leave , now, well we have not left yet ,you wait a few years , ok we will wait ,please in the meantime stop whining and just get on with your lives ,  the sun has got his hat on , when and if it rains ,then have go .

[autanic]

Ireland like the UK is a Non-Shengeun Country, so an Open Border between the two nations of ROI and UK will simply either revert to the pre-existing relation pre-europe or a new bilateral agreement will be signed.

The UK and Ireland have the closest relationship of any two countries in the EU anyway, Irish Voters can vote in the UK and vice versa. We can apply for each other passports if we can prove descent from either nation and quite frankly, it is my prediction, that now the UK has chosen to leave. Questions will be raised in Ireland as to why they should remain also, considering, Britain is Ireland's biggest trading partner.

 

Lets take a whirlwind look around the state of EU.  

 

Germany, struggling to cope with 2 million refugees. The rise of the far right again.

France, terror attacks, struggling with the rise of the far right. Social decommission.  

Belgium rise of the far right. Home of the EU parliament, but the biggest gap between rich and poor in the EU.

Spain, high youth unemployment. Housing crisis inevitable as prices are unaffordable.

Portugal, not much going on here at all really. 

Italy, migrants arriving at a rate of 5,000 a week from Libya. High unemployment.

Greece, the basket case of Europe, very high debt, high unemployment, rise of the far right.

Hungary, closed its land borders in contravention to EU treaties. Far right in power.

Austria, closed its land borders to prevent refugees transiting, in contravention to EU treaties., far right in power.

Sweden, more than a million refugees in a less than 10 million. This means 1 in 10 people are refugees.

Denmark, closed it land borders in contravention to EU treaty. Rise of the far right.

 

 

The UK. Manufacturing UP. Exports UP. Unemployment DOWN. Currency, down which has boosted growth. 

 

All in all, the EU is in a bit of a mess, the only country in the UK to have a referendum is the the country with no viable far right. This is because the people have been allowed to express their views, yes there have problems, isolated incidents and general delinquency, but the UK does not have anywhere near the problems the rest of the EU is facing.

 

The question really is why didn't we leave the EU sooner.

 

[AlexRich]

6 minutes ago, i claudius said:

 

I love it , yes the remainers were telling us the sky would fall ,the four horesmen of the apocalypse were going to come and a plague of locusts would descend the moment we voted to leave , now, well we have not left yet ,you wait a few years , ok we will wait ,please in the meantime stop whining and just get on with your lives ,  the sun has got his hat on , when and if it rains ,then have go .

 

As time goes by and we all begin to understand the terms of exit ... in other words, what Brexit actually means in practical terms, you may find that many people won't like that outcome ... so this event is by no means a done deal. Is that why the brexit zealots want everyone just to shut up and get on with it? Their real fear is that the result will be reversed in a General Election ... which, incidentally, is also democracy in action. Time is not your friend.

 

 

[AlexRich]

8 minutes ago, autanic said:

Ireland like the UK is a Non-Shengeun Country, so an Open Border between the two nations of ROI and UK will simply either revert to the pre-existing relation pre-europe or a new bilateral agreement will be signed.

The UK and Ireland have the closest relationship of any two countries in the EU anyway, Irish Voters can vote in the UK and vice versa. We can apply for each other passports if we can prove descent from either nation and quite frankly, it is my prediction, that now the UK has chosen to leave. Questions will be raised in Ireland as to why they should remain also, considering, Britain is Ireland's biggest trading partner.

 

Lets take a whirlwind look around the state of EU.  

 

Germany, struggling to cope with 2 million refugees. The rise of the far right again.

France, terror attacks, struggling with the rise of the far right. Social decommission.  

Belgium rise of the far right. Home of the EU parliament, but the biggest gap between rich and poor in the EU.

Spain, high youth unemployment. Housing crisis inevitable as prices are unaffordable.

Portugal, not much going on here at all really. 

Italy, migrants arriving at a rate of 5,000 a week from Libya. High unemployment.

Greece, the basket case of Europe, very high debt, high unemployment, rise of the far right.

Hungary, closed its land borders in contravention to EU treaties. Far right in power.

Austria, closed its land borders to prevent refugees transiting, in contravention to EU treaties., far right in power.

Sweden, more than a million refugees in a less than 10 million. This means 1 in 10 people are refugees.

Denmark, closed it land borders in contravention to EU treaty. Rise of the far right.

 

 

The UK. Manufacturing UP. Exports UP. Unemployment DOWN. Currency, down which has boosted growth. 

 

All in all, the EU is in a bit of a mess, the only country in the UK to have a referendum is the the country with no viable far right. This is because the people have been allowed to express their views, yes there have problems, isolated incidents and general delinquency, but the UK does not have anywhere near the problems the rest of the EU is facing.

 

The question really is why didn't we leave the EU sooner.

 

 

You could have made similar claims about the 'sick man of Europe' in the 1970's ... the UK ... with all of its problems it is just going down forever. It went cap in hand to the IMF for a loan, I believe? But it didn't last forever, despite the problems it faced it worked through them. 

 

Incidentally the UK is facing into historically high levels of indebtedness, a situation that will get worse following Brexit, not to mention the prospect of rising prices in 2017, as the currency impact hits goods inwards. Hays plc yesterday warned on lower levels of hiring, so beware that you don't talk prematurely.

 

And who's to say that the issues that some European countries are facing are insurmountable? Nothing ever stays the same and I would not be surprised to see a stronger Europe in the future ... as nothing is written in sand ... in a decade or less we might be looking at a different economic scenario. We've seen the Asian crisis, Russian debt crisis, on and on ... but they recovered ... as will the EU. 

 

 

[GuestHouse]

1 hour ago, MissAndry said:

 Raw materials -40%, exchange rate +10%, wages - 10%

Can you do simple math?

 

Now the problem is the British government appears to be doing everything possible to harm British nationals, I can't see the reason for that. But it's the way it is. They love non-whites, they love non British. It doesn't appear that other governments act this way, it just seems to be the British government.

 

Raw materials (including oil and gas).

 

Whatever the price, a depreciated pound increases the costs within the UK and outside the UK when UK produced goods are marketted overseas.

 

Heating and energy prices are being revised up in the UK as a direct impact of the devalued pound.

 

How you extrapolate that into your theories on government policies is anyone's guess.

[autanic]

On 9/2/2016 at 4:40 PM, AlexRich said:

 

You could have made similar claims about the 'sick man of Europe' in the 1970's ... the UK ... with all of its problems it is just going down forever. It went cap in hand to the IMF for a loan, I believe? But it didn't last forever, despite the problems it faced it worked through them. 

 

Incidentally the UK is facing into historically high levels of indebtedness, a situation that will get worse following Brexit, not to mention the prospect of rising prices in 2017, as the currency impact hits goods inwards. Hays plc yesterday warned on lower levels of hiring, so beware that you don't talk prematurely.

 

And who's to say that the issues that some European countries are facing are insurmountable? Nothing ever stays the same and I would not be surprised to see a stronger Europe in the future ... as nothing is written in sand ... in a decade or less we might be looking at a different economic scenario. We've seen the Asian crisis, Russian debt crisis, on and on ... but they recovered ... as will the EU. 

 

 

 

The 1970's was a very long time ago. But I take your point about the rest.  

Every naysayer prediction made before the EU Referendum and talk of Armageddon and End of Capitalism, were sensationalised by the remain camp, even the Bank of England Governor. 

 

I even remember George Osbourne saying "Cuts start on Friday 24th June".    This bully boy tactics did not wash with the British People and looking back, you can draw your own conclusions.  Heres an example of his claims.  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-george-osborne-britain-lose-control-economy-effects-facts-a7071581.html

 

George Osborne says Britain would 'lose control' of its economy if it left the EU

 

I ask you in all fairness, has Britain lost control of it Economy >?   Absolutely Not.

[MissAndry]

5 minutes ago, GuestHouse said:

 

Heating and energy prices are being revised up in the UK as a direct impact of the devalued pound.

How you extrapolate that into your theories on government policies is anyone's guess.

 

Heating and energy costs are directly dependent on oil price in the UK, oil is the cheapest it's been for ten years. How the prices of everything are rising in the face of all the material and labour costs decreasing is just a scam. Brexit is an excuse by all the crooks running Britain to force prices and profits up.

Edited September 2, 2016 by MissAndry

[AlexRich]

On 9/2/2016 at 4:51 PM, autanic said:

 

The 1970's was a very long time ago. But I take your point about the rest.  

Every naysayer prediction made before the EU Referendum and talk of Armageddon and End of Capitalism, were sensationalised by the remain camp, even the Bank of England Governor. 

 

I even remember George Osbourne saying "Cuts start on Friday 24th June".    This bully boy tactics did not wash with the British People and looking back, you can draw your own conclusions.  Heres an example of his claims.  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-george-osborne-britain-lose-control-economy-effects-facts-a7071581.html

 

George Osborne says Britain would 'lose control' of its economy if it left the EU

 

I ask you in all fairness, has Britain lost control of it Economy >?   Absolutely Not.

 

In two months? Hardly likely. But it was making some inroads into its indebtedness, which is only going to get bigger after Hammond announces policy response in October. I don't like Osborne's approach, but it is too early to say that he was wrong.

 

[autanic]

The prices of oil and gas have reduced.

The prices of steel, iron ore, aluminium and copper all plummeted. 

The cost of food has also gone down. Ask the Thais about the price of rice on the open market.

Yingluck is up to neck in it, on the back of forecasts that went the wrong way.

 

Commodity prices are going down and boosting the UK economy in a way interest rate manipulation hasn't in 8 years.

[GuestHouse]

1 minute ago, MissAndry said:

 

Oil is the cheapest it's been for ten years.

How the prices of everything are rising in the face of all the material and labour costs decreasing is just a scam.

 

Whatever the price of oil (which is priced in $) the price the UK pays for oil went up when the £ went down against the $.

 

It does not get simpler than that.

 

No government scam - A direct outcome of the Brexit vote.

[GuestHouse]

On 9/2/2016 at 4:51 PM, autanic said:

 

The 1970's was a very long time ago. But I take your point about the rest.  

Every naysayer prediction made before the EU Referendum and talk of Armageddon and End of Capitalism, were sensationalised by the remain camp, even the Bank of England Governor. 

 

I even remember George Osbourne saying "Cuts start on Friday 24th June".    This bully boy tactics did not wash with the British People and looking back, you can draw your own conclusions.  Heres an example of his claims.  http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-george-osborne-britain-lose-control-economy-effects-facts-a7071581.html

 

George Osborne says Britain would 'lose control' of its economy if it left the EU

 

I ask you in all fairness, has Britain lost control of it Economy >?   Absolutely Not.

 

I'll ask you in all fairness and a whole lot pf reality.

 

Has the UK left the EU?

 

There's only one right answer so don't take too long figuring it out.

[autanic]

3 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

In two months? Hardly likely. But it was making some inroads into its indebtedness, which is only going to get bigger after Hammond announces policy response in October. I don't like Osborne's approach, but it is too early to say that he was wrong.

 

 

Indebtedness will increase while interest rates are at an all time low. The fact is borrowing has never ever been so cheap. You could never get a mortgage at today's rate 20 or 30 years ago.

It makes sense to borrow while loans are cheap. The only problem with indebtedness is when they raise the interest rates too quickly and I think this is something everyone can agree on, that will not happen any time soon.

[MissAndry]

4 minutes ago, GuestHouse said:

 

Whatever the price of oil (which is priced in $) the price the UK pays for oil went up when the £ went down against the $.

 

It does not get simpler than that.

 

No government scam - A direct outcome of the Brexit vote.

 

Oil 5 years ago $120 a barrel = 80GPB ($1.5 = 1 GBP)

Oil today $45 a barrel = 37GBP ($1.2 = 1 GBP)

 

Therefore my heating oil should be less than half the price today than it was 5 years ago ...... but strangly it's costing me more.

 

What don't you understand?

Edited September 2, 2016 by MissAndry

[autanic]

3 minutes ago, GuestHouse said:

 

Whatever the price of oil (which is priced in $) the price the UK pays for oil went up when the £ went down against the $.

 

It does not get simpler than that.

 

No government scam - A direct outcome of the Brexit vote.

 

I don't think anyone here is disagreeing with you on that one. 

 

My point is, was there a better time to leave the EU.  Oil is very low around $45 a barrel compared to $100+ a few years ago. The market is flooded with cheap Chinese Commodities. Like Steel etc. Interest rates are at a historic record low.  Lets face it, if you were going shake of the shackles of the EU, this was the perfect time to do it.

[autanic]

1 minute ago, MissAndry said:

 

Oil 5 years ago $120 a barrel = 80GPB ($1.5 = 1 GBP)

Oil today $45 a barrel = 37GBP ($1.2 = 1 GBP)

 

Therefore my heating oil should be less than half the price today than it was 5 years ago ...... but strangly it's costing me more.

 

What don't you understand?

Thats because it is a UK Government Scam !

 

Market price goes up, prices go up next day.

Market prices goes down. Nothing, maybe a 1p off in 3 weeks later.

[JB300]

^ What point are you trying to make? If the UK and ROI want a soft border, they will have one (they have one by default anyway). And it will have no practical pressure from third party influences. You remainers put an absurd amount of weight on the power and influence of the EU and it's associated agencies. What happened to your thinking???

It's by no means clear what will happen to the border between ROI & NI as whilst both sides may want to maintain the pre-EU CTA arrangement, any agreement will probably need ratifying by the (other 26 countries in) EU.

(BBC) Reality Check: What does Brexit mean for the Irish border? ... http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-uk-leaves-the-eu-36883992

Just when you thought things couldn't get any more complicated [emoji15]