Refusal !

[markr]

Thanks everyone,didnt ever imagine it would be quite so heartbreaking

I'll keep you informed

mark

[markr]

Called the embassy this morning, it took a good hour to get any sense out of the receptionist, I was then told to call back later (1pm ish) so that i did, and upon doing so i was politely told "oh! sorry everyone go home early on friday, I forget"

Its useless!!! i'm pulling my hair out now!

[Phil_ne_uk]

Typical of the embassy! Mark, you will have to try again on Monday morning again. Keep trying, as I said, they just like to crack you up! But don't worry you'll get sorted sooner or later. Good luck for monday.

Phil

[atlastaname]

Mark that was almost guaranteed to happen. They pull that one on everyone and we all fall for it . You have to wait another 3 days now and hope that he is in on monday because of course they wouldn't think to tell you if he was just off for his annual holiday.!! All part of the agony game we all go through , you are no exception. Doubtless you will have a few more hair-pulling moments before you get this sorted.

Can't wait for your post on Monday

[the scouser]

Mark,

From the details you have provided, the decision does seem to be unjust. You have two choices: to either make representations to the visa section, or for your girlfriend to reapply, ensuring that the covering letter effectively deals with the previous matters and that all supporting docs (where applicable) are translated in to English.

I must admit that latterly it has become very difficult to get to speak to either an ECO or the ECM directly.

[markr]

Thanks all, i am starting to believe the lack of evidence of property was with reference to the fact her deeds were in thai/tagalok, however surely it would only take a second for one of the enbassys thai employees to look at this document and certify what it says?

Or is this another example of how particular the ECO's are when it comes to paper work?

[markr]

Who should i get to do these? do they have to be certified?

[atlastaname]

Thanks all, i am starting to believe the lack of evidence of property was with reference to the fact her deeds were in thai/tagalok, however surely it would only take a second for one of the enbassys thai employees to look at this document and certify what it says?

Or is this another example of how particular the ECO's are when it comes to paper work?

Well i did tell you that didn't i?

Re getting a Thai employee to give it the once over..don't be daft. The onus is on you to provide everything they may need. They don't have to do anything and as you can see.. they don't. Get everything you submitted in Thai translated to English . Where you ask..man Bangkok is full of translation services but i would pay a few extra baht and get it done by one with central business area offices if i were you rather than someone above Noi's noodleshop.

Don't forget this is just part of your problems, you still haven't told us how you will address the HUGE discrepancy over who is supporting her ..you (the embassies version) or she is (your version)

Monday should be interesting

[markr]

cheers mate, I feel quite stupid now, her bank statements,bank book,deeds and her mother also supplied sponsorship to the tune of 1million baht..........................its all in bloody thai!!!!!

How stupid could i have been!!! it still states in my letter i would not be paying for her, so i do still think they missed this part. I have re-written new letters from katy and myself explaining what we think happened and how the confusion arose, and i will still speak to them on monday.

would they have not stated this though in there refusal letter ie the fact that they could not read these?

[GU22]

I have always maintained that any documents in Thai, or any other language except English, should be accompanied by an English translation, except passport and ID card.

As discussed in a previous thread, the ECOs have very little time in which to assess an application, so anything which makes their job quicker and easier must be a help.

However, although the immigration rules do say that the onus is on the applicant to provide the necessary evidence, there is, as far as I am aware, nothing in the rules to say that an applicant must present English translations as well as the original documents.

If they are basing their refusal on the fact that you did not submit translations then they are on very shaky ground.

Good luck on Monday.

[markr]

Hello again,

Spoke to the ECo this morning, AND got a reply from my email! completely shocked because,

1.He was a NICE chap and 2. He was quite HELPFUL!!!!

He said her application was quite strong, they wont give me too much detail but they state we did not supply them with documents relating to her finacial status i.e bank statements,deeds etc, I can only say we did, they say they have looked again at the application and still find nothing.

This still seems very strange as this was something they asked her for when she originally applied, she took updated ones with her to the interview.

Any way it seems as if im not going to get anywhere arguing this point with them, all we can really do i suppose is apply again and detail everything we think was an issue last time, get it translated and hope for the best, He did say something quite interesting though"this is only her first application here at bangkok, apply again and you might have some better luck"

mmmmm! i wonder? is there a bit of commision going on at the embassy????

mark

[Mahout Angrit]

Hello again,

Spoke to the ECo this morning, AND got a reply from my email! completely shocked because,

1.He was a NICE chap and 2. He was quite HELPFUL!!!!

mmmmm! i wonder? is there a bit of commision going on at the embassy????

mark

Maybe not, perhaps the papers are misfiled with the applicants paperwork who were interviewed before or after her. You're just very unlucky. Wish you better luck next time maybe type up a list of the documents you give them next time and give them the list (just hope they dont lose that too!!)

[cclub75]

I'm a little lost for words but check out the letter and see for yourselves all help is much appriciated

I can't help, but to give you my sympathy.

This policy in order to "save" UK or France (or any UE country) from "invasions" of illegal asian migrants is totally insane... When you simply look at what happen in thoses countries.

I mean we receive DOZEN of thousands illegals migrants from... Africa, Turquey, etc. Simply, because they use land and sea accesses, which are much less controled of course than air accesses.

And the rule is : once you have a foot on UE land, then you're OK (see what happen with Spain and Italy and the african coming by boats).

I know from experience that the french embassy in Hanoi is litteraly at "war" to try to find the few vietnamese who will stay in France once granted a visa... They make almost police investigation for every applicant, even students. It costs a fortune in budget.

And meanwhile, in France (but it's the same in UK) we are litterally awashed with illegal migrants, from Algeria, Africa.

I feel ashamed for my country and for UE.

Edited November 20, 2006 by cclub75

[markr]

I feel ashamed because as a British citizen,that my mother and father who have also sponsored my girl, both 58 and 71 years of age who i currently live with, bear no inpact on there decsion, they are writing to our mp as they feel so upset that there word means nothing!

[binnsy]

Mark by your letter you have a right to be pissed off,i also have a refusal and they are going to give me a date and venue in January for the appeal to be heard but from what you said it seems a stronger case than mine.Don't let them get you down and there is light at the end of the tunnel.

What really pisses me of is that the UK is swarming with eastern europeans and we want to bring our loved ones over and pay there expenses but some ECO say's PROBABILITIES

UTTER B**LOCKS

[Dakhar]

So are you married to her? If you were would it make a difference, would she then get a visa?

Are you planning on getting married to her when she comes to the UK? I ask because that is just what they are trying to prevent.

Probably too late for this, but I would have advised her to apply for a student visa. With all the propler documents, no mention of a boyfriend etc... then you two get together, marry, and transfer the visa over.

That is what my wife and I did, granted we met while she was a student... no planning it just worked out that way.

[Duality]

Alright mark

I called the embassy this morning and spoke to a total scatterbrains of a thai woman, when i asked her for the name of the ECO she put the phone down on me! So i called again and this time i spoke to an older thai woman who was abit more helpful and she gave me the name of the ECM and that i should send an email stating my concerns over the refusal to the ECM. She said it would take 20 days for them to review it.

Well i'm not going to hold my breath on this one but i will keep sending emails and i will call again and try to find out the name of the ECO.

I wonder if its the same chap that refused your gf ???

[markr]

Tell them you will wait on hold until they are free! thats what i did, having read the email again it clearly says she did not supply the deeds/statements, and i know she did!!! these documents were handed in original form on the morning of the interview as she only supplied copies at the time of application, we have been wronged!!

mark

[atlastaname]

Mark, what i don't quite understand is this

If he was a nice guy and said that the only? reason for refusal was that she didn't provide the financial documents and deeds, then the first thing i would have said is "well we did provide them , you have mislaid them , so if my girlfriend brings them in again and leaves them for your attention , then will you overturn the refusal?". I mean that is so blindingly obvious i can't understand why you didn't say that. Now you are faced with making another application (at another cost..not that that is so important) and the inevitable delay that will cause. If he was so nice i can't see how that very reasonable suggestion could be refused by him. But seems you didn't make it.!!

So now you should apply again asap with all the documents you did before , translated this time , and provide a covering letter addressing the points of the refusal notice showing how you have now satisfied each and every one. I can't see how they could then refuse you , but do bear in mind if they really wanted to they can always find something.

[markr]

atlastaname,Mate I understand what you mean however you should understand that however nice this guy is, he is not going to admit that he/they have mislaid anything is he!They will not look at it again and if it were that easy to bring in the paper work after a refusal then it would make a shambles of there whole system,I also think it is blindingly obvious that however nice these people are/are not, they are not reasonable,if they were reasonable then there would be no need for this forum and we would all get the visas we need!!! I dont know what else i can say to them, they have told us to apply again and by the look of things thats all we can do.

cheers mark

Edited November 20, 2006 by markreed

[atlastaname]

Mark, you have made your mind up and thats fine. But thats not quite what i wrote. I didn't say they had to admit they were wrong, i do know the unliklihood of that!!, what i said was if he was saying there were no documents and you told him there were and thus they may have mislaid them , then its obvious that they should allow you the chance to bring it what was mislaid if that was the only reason for refusal. And if you put it like that its hard to see them not allowing it.But you didn't.

So fair enough apply again. Seems like they are saying she will get it , which i have to say i find unusual in that if they are so keen to approve it next time why not let you bring in the documents this time. Still you know best

[Phil_ne_uk]

Mark I must say it makes perfect sense what atlastaname is saying. I would phone the eco tomorrow and suggest what atlastaname has suggested, offering to produce copies of the missing/lost documents. It's worth a try, it must be better than wasting time and money re-applying again!

[markr]

Yes it does make sense, I didnt at any point say i had not asked for this to be done, atlastaname, I dont know best and really appreciate your help mate but you made a presumption about what i did or did not say on the phone this morning and you made it in a way that made me sound stupid!!

[atlastaname]

Well Mark , we are not mindreaders are we. If you had actually posted everything that had been said it wouldn't have taken much longer and you would have given us the info we needed to have advised you better.

I guess we will know the result when you next apply. Good luck !!

[markr]

Atlastaname, No your not mate, although i wish you were!! then you could tell us what those joly nice folk are thinking at the embassy and we'd all get our visa's and not be stressy pricks like me!!!

sorry mate!!!

[Phil_ne_uk]

Mark, I can imagine you're pulling your hair out now. In my opinion these eco are mostly awkward b******s and like to make things difficult for people. However, what's your next step?

[GU22]

Mark,

I am gobsmacked. They say that they have never received these documents? Yet she took the originals with her to the interview and handed them in at the start?

It seems that you have already decided to apply again, and that is your choice. But were I in your position I would try and get this refusal overturned. Her application was checked by the VAC, yes? They accepted that she had provided the necessary financial documents or else they would have got her to sign the standard declaration to say she knew some documents were missing. I would point this out to the ECM and that this means the documents must have been mislaid somewhere between the VAC and the visa section at the embassy. Say that she took the original documents with her to the interview and handed them in at the start (if she didn't, then say that as she was never asked to produce them, and having already provided copies, she assumed the originals were not required). Ask one more time if you can now produce these documents and if doing so means the decision will be overturned.

The remark

this is only her first application here at bangkok, apply again and you might have some better luck

is ludicrous! Either her application meets the requirements of the rules or it doesn't, regardless of whether this is her first application or not! I would definitely contact the ECM and ask what the ECO meant by this remark, even if you decide not to pursue this application any further. If they cannot give you an adequate explanation of this comment, then approach UK visas and you MP for an explanation.

One sees a lot of comments on forums such as this like Phil's above, but usually on looking at the details of the application one can see that the refusal was justified. However in your case it seems, from what you have said, that someone at the embassy has cocked up and is now trying to cover themselves. Don't let them get away with it!

Edited November 20, 2006 by GU22

[Phil_ne_uk]

GU22 with reference to your “comment” (or dig)

One sees a lot of comments on forums such as this like Phil's above

My comments (as you call them) on this particular post are appropriate. Obviously, otherwise you wouldn’t have written

someone at the embassy has cocked up and is now trying to cover themselves. Don't let them get away with it!

Oh incidentally, I didn’t comment, I stated my opinion!

Have you ever considered, perhaps the reason one sees a lot of comments/opinions like mine as you say, is because they are true and justified, as in this instance.

Edited November 20, 2006 by Phil_ne_uk

[dog412]

i would think, if applying for a visa, and money was not a problem, why mention boyfriends or accommodation arrangements at all. it's a tourism visa, or am i mistaken? her educational background and present employment should be enough to be the basis for the requirements. a solid banking history of income, plus the investments in thailand,if she is Thai, would be the examined criteria.

[dog412]

seems a lot more"history" here than i was aware of. i stand by my previous post, but admit that it was "based" on the op statement finances NOT being a problem. much more here than that.