Beijing begins military exercise in South China Sea

[webfact]

Beijing begins military exercise in South China Sea
By Catherine Hardy | With REUTERS



Beijing begins military exercise in South China Sea
Downplays fears of conflict in the area
Ruling due July 12 on competing sovereignty claims by Philippines and China

WASHINGTON: - The Chinese government is seeking to downplay fears of conflict in the South China Sea.

Tension is mounting ahead of a hotly-anticipated international ruling due on competing claims by China and the Philippines in the region.

An influential state-run newspaper has urged Beijing to prepare for military confrontation in the area.

Joint editorials were published in the Chinese and English editions of the Global Times.

The newspaper says the dispute has been complicated by US intervention. It now faces further escalation due to the threat posed by the tribunal to China’s sovereignty, it added.

Military manoeuvres
However, China has begun military manoeuvres in the South China Sea.

The drill will last from Tuesday July 5th until July 11.

The exercises will take place in a 100,000 square kilometre zone around the disputed Xisha Islands.

The official China Daily quotes the Defence Ministry as saying the drills are routine.

The operation will conclude a day before the Hague-based tribunal gives its decision on a territorial dispute in the area, brought by the Philippines.

The ruling
The international court is hearing the competing claims of China and the Philippines in the South China Sea.

More than three years after Manila initially brought the case, the court will rule on whether it has the right to exploit waters claimed by both countries.

The potentially-destabilising verdict is due on July 12.

The concern
US officials are worried that the ruling by the Permanent Court of Arbitration in the Hague could prompt Beijing to declare an air defence identification zone (ADIZ).

It did this over the East China Sea in 2013.

There are concerns China could also step up the pace of reclamation and construction on its holdings in the disputed region.

What China says
The China Daily says what response China takes will “fully depend” on the Philippines.

It quotes unidentified sources as saying:

“There will be no incident at all if all related parties put aside the arbitration results”
“China has never taken a lead in..stirring up regional tension.”

What Manila says
Manila has sought to play down tensions with its powerful neighbour ahead of the decision.

However, it is resisting pressure to ignore the ruling.

“The reality is that nobody wants a conflict, nobody wants to resolve our conflict in a violent manner, nobody wants war,” – says Philippines Foreign Minister Perfecto Yasay.

Strategic importance
Around five trillion US dollars in ship-borne trade passes through the energy-rich, strategic waters of the South China Sea.

China’s territorial claims in the region overlap with Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan.

-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2016-07-06

[Redline]

There will be a counter action. China has a master plan, and the South China Sea is the start. They will also crack down further on Tibet, Hong Kong, Taiwan, and other claims the have with other countries...

[Publicus]

USN keeping an eye on things in the SCS.

And then some....

U.S. Navy destroyers stalk China's claims in South China Sea

July 6, 2016

U.S. Navy destroyers have been quietly stalking some of China's man-made islands and claims in recent weeks ahead of a ruling on contested claims in the South China Sea.

Over the past two weeks, the destroyers Stethem, Spruance and Momsen have all patrolled near Chinese-claimed features at Scarborough Shoal and in the Spratly Islands, according to two defense officials.

“We have been regularly patrolling within the 14 to 20 nautical mile range of these features,” one official said, who asked for anonymity to discuss diplomatically-sensitive operations.

http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/2016/07/06/us-navy-destroyers-stalk-chinas-claims-south-china-sea/86777268/

Asean foreign ministers meet July 21 in Vientiane as Laos (pro-CCP) has the rotating chair of the group. US and CCP Boyz will be there too.

SecState Kerry yesterday called the CCP Foreign Minister to keep open channels of dialogue. Xi Jinping says SCS is a "core interest" of CCP and that CCP will use force to assert a core interest. A great number of us are still looking around trying to find the rising China that is a peaceful one.

[LawrenceChee]

The USA has made a mess of middle east and now they are swinging over to SCS to create another arena for itself...adding Russians to the mix because they are starved out by the west...this will be another mess with no long term plans.

Long live the arm factories which control the senate and in creating these scenarios. Vote buying at its best.

[Rancid]

Don't agree with China's territorial ambitions here, but lets not pretend the US is about guaranteeing freedom of navigation or could care less about the Philippines.

Interesting is that the Chinese have come out and said there is a line in the sand and for the US not to cross it. The Russians actually said the same thing about the US in Europe.

So will the US force both the Russians and Chinese to back down with tails between their legs? I don't have a clue, but quite a few punters are getting worried this brinkmanship could lead to war.

Interesting for Australia that a single Chinese multi-warhead nuke could take out US bases at Pine Gap & NW Cape plus every major city.

[boomerangutang]

"“China has never taken a lead in..stirring up regional tension.”"

Right..... Commandeering other countries' territories would not constitute 'stirring up tensions.'

The USA has made a mess of middle east and now they are swinging over to SCS to create another arena for itself...adding Russians to the mix because they are starved out by the west...this will be another mess with no long term plans.

Long live the arm factories which control the senate and in creating these scenarios. Vote buying at its best.

The Middle East is always going to be a mess, no matter what outsiders do. As bad as it is now, it could be worse if westerners had not interferred.

Why mention the Russians? They've got their own big issues. They're not so stupid as to jump in feet first to the SCS problem.

If they cared about small countries getting territories stolen by a larger country, then they might get involved - most likely to assist the little guy. But Russia is like China in that way: they don't care about the oppressed in the world. They only care about their bottom line.

[Publicus]

The USA has made a mess of middle east and now they are swinging over to SCS to create another arena for itself...adding Russians to the mix because they are starved out by the west...this will be another mess with no long term plans.

Long live the arm factories which control the senate and in creating these scenarios. Vote buying at its best.

Little blue men had been appearing throughout the SCS during recent years, however, since last year the little blue men are becoming a swarm.

The nine-dashed line that says CCP owns the South China Sea -- the equivalent would be if the United States suddenly declared it owns 80% of the Gulf of Mexico and all the Caribbean Islands.

Preposterous.

After PCA issues its ruling Tuesday next week the EU will become more focused and active, to specifically include the G-7.

July 7, 2016

Europe turning vocal ahead of South China Sea ruling

The pending tribunal ruling has served as the trigger for Europe's activism. "When a UN tribunal declares a ruling, the South China Sea is not an issue just in the Asian Pacific. It will become a global governance issue about how the world can maintain norm and the rule of law," Volker Stanzel, former German ambassador to China and Japan said.

China has said it will disregard the ruling, a response that would have huge implications for Europe as well. Letting Beijing trample on the ruling could lead more countries in the Middle East, Africa and elsewhere to do the same, a European security official said. China's refusal to accept the ruling also could embolden President Vladimir Putin in Russia, who continues to take a hard stance following its annexation of Crimea from Ukraine.

http://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Economy/International-Relations/Europe-turning-vocal-ahead-of-South-China-Sea-ruling

The French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian proposed last month that EU member states conduct joint patrols of the South China Sea. The dominoes are being put in place for the SCS issues between the CCP Dictators and Asean-US to become global. France btw is the only EU country that maintains a Pacific Naval Fleet...

Edited July 7, 2016 by Publicus

[OMGImInPattaya]

Aren't' they like Thailand...they have a hand-me-down Russian aircraft carrier with no planes?

[Nasrullah]

Aren't' they like Thailand...they have a hand-me-down Russian aircraft carrier with no planes?

they also have a billion or so people who would turn kamikaze at the drop of a hat!.......adds a little something to an inferior few ships!..

keep in mind the US has not won a war since ww2..........

Edited July 7, 2016 by Nasrullah

[Nasrullah]

Aren't' they like Thailand...they have a hand-me-down Russian aircraft carrier with no planes?

but in a full blown battle,the US would not encounter a hand-me down russian military

[Publicus]

CCP Klutzes in Beijing never anticipated a judicial involvement in their ongoing SCS belligerence, bellicosity, aggressions over the decades, even after the UNCLOS became effective in 1994. Yet here we have the UN sponsored Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague, created in 1895, examining the International Laws of the Sea and the CCP denial of it.

France is committed to Asia-Pacific presence, says senior officer

The Mistral-class amphibious assault ship Dixmude, berthed at Singapore's Changi Naval Base during a five-month deployment to the region in April 2015. Source: IHS/Kelvin Wong

French Navy Rear Admiral Bernard-Antoine Morio de l'Isle, who holds overall operational responsibility for the Pacific as well as for any naval assets operating in the region, asserted that the country is committed to protecting its citizens and economic interests in the Asia-Pacific region.

Speaking at Singapore's Changi Naval Base aboard the navy's second Aquitaine-class Frégate Européenne Multi-Missions (FREMM) frigate Provence - which is on a five-month inaugural deployment prior to commissioning - Rear Adm Morio de l'Isle noted that about 700,000 French citizens reside in the region, which also accounts for more than 30% of France's international trade.

http://www.janes.com/article/58688/france-is-committed-to-asia-pacific-presence-says-senior-officer

Not only did the Klutzes in Beijing not anticipate a formal contest over the law in a court, they did not anticipate the global reaction to their aggressions against the global economy, its lines of transport and communication especially. So now the Europeans are getting involved.

CCP Klutzes have the support of Zimbabwe and Russia while Asean led by the Philippines at The Hague have the law behind 'em. Not to mention the US Navy along with a few other navies.

CCP Klutzes are in over their heads. The great risk and danger is that they still have no clue of it.

[Publicus]

Here's more about the CCP Klutzes in Beijing and their ludicrous and arbitrary demands...

China has already announced it will not abide by the decision, claiming that there is nothing to arbitrate. From China's perspective there is no dispute, because the territory is China's. End of discussion.

Beijing has painted itself into a corner. The evidence backing up its territorial claims in the South China Sea is weak, and with the backing of the International Court of Arbitration there will be no reason — other than the threat of military force by China — for any country to abide by them. As a signatory to UNCLOS, it has endorsed the very border laws it is now violating.

China now faces a choice between a humiliating retreat from its claims or becoming a hypocrite that selectively abides by its international treaties and agreements. It will be a spectacular fall and China knows it, as evidenced by its announcement ahead of time it will ignore the decision. Some experts worry that China, having lost face in the international arena, could lash out after the decision is announced.

http://theweek.com/articles/634094/why-china-about-lash-south-china-sea

Klutzes. Same as all dictators.

[LawrenceChee]

Here's more about the CCP Klutzes in Beijing and their ludicrous and arbitrary demands...

China has already announced it will not abide by the decision, claiming that there is nothing to arbitrate. From China's perspective there is no dispute, because the territory is China's. End of discussion.

Beijing has painted itself into a corner. The evidence backing up its territorial claims in the South China Sea is weak, and with the backing of the International Court of Arbitration there will be no reason — other than the threat of military force by China — for any country to abide by them. As a signatory to UNCLOS, it has endorsed the very border laws it is now violating.

China now faces a choice between a humiliating retreat from its claims or becoming a hypocrite that selectively abides by its international treaties and agreements. It will be a spectacular fall and China knows it, as evidenced by its announcement ahead of time it will ignore the decision. Some experts worry that China, having lost face in the international arena, could lash out after the decision is announced.

http://theweek.com/articles/634094/why-china-about-lash-south-china-sea

Klutzes. Same as all dictators.

The Chinese are learning fast, much better to be like the USA and not sign or rectify anything in future since as as superpower it's almost easier to swagger in and pretend the world agrees with what you are doing....much easier.

[LawrenceChee]

"“China has never taken a lead in..stirring up regional tension.”"

Right..... Commandeering other countries' territories would not constitute 'stirring up tensions.'

The USA has made a mess of middle east and now they are swinging over to SCS to create another arena for itself...adding Russians to the mix because they are starved out by the west...this will be another mess with no long term plans.

Long live the arm factories which control the senate and in creating these scenarios. Vote buying at its best.

The Middle East is always going to be a mess, no matter what outsiders do. As bad as it is now, it could be worse if westerners had not interferred.

Why mention the Russians? They've got their own big issues. They're not so stupid as to jump in feet first to the SCS problem.

If they cared about small countries getting territories stolen by a larger country, then they might get involved - most likely to assist the little guy. But Russia is like China in that way: they don't care about the oppressed in the world. They only care about their bottom line.

The middle east was a controlled mess by the ME people till the USA decided to meddle in it for national pride and went into a illegal war, bringing their closest allies UK into it and bullying the UN to pass the resolution. That is a fact. 150,000 upwards civilians have been killed and I dare you or Comrade P to quote life has been better for the normal person on the street.

You went in and then all the USA companies got the first oil deals ...that is not plundering ? What was that ? democratic e-cmmerce ?

The Russians are here now selling arms to Vietnam and other countries in ASEAN, read WSJ they have an article on it yesterday...they are here because of western sanctions, so Russian coming into this area is important not because they care about China as a communist brother but because more arms are poured into this region.

The arms situations here has got put of hand because the USA only as Comrade P states...proudly flags it navies everywhere and insist in holding military exercises....what was the military conflict that needed such a big show of hardware ? a reminder that the US navy can sail anywhere they want and meddle ? What;s the long term plans ?

Instead of organising a meeting, a conference, USA has again proved using military hardware to intimidate, to control their foreign policies is the only thing known to them. Not talking, not discussing, not meetings. Just missiles.

China and Russian is not some small countries...by repeatedly coming to SCS to show off its hardware, the USA has dumbly showed again what they can do and what are their limitations being this far from home base.

Big egos bruised benefit nobody except those on this forum who are warmongers and salivate over firework shows and the arm factories which own the senate in USA with their vote buying and monetary donations.

[LawrenceChee]

The USA has made a mess of middle east and now they are swinging over to SCS to create another arena for itself...adding Russians to the mix because they are starved out by the west...this will be another mess with no long term plans.

Long live the arm factories which control the senate and in creating these scenarios. Vote buying at its best.

Little blue men had been appearing throughout the SCS during recent years, however, since last year the little blue men are becoming a swarm.

The nine-dashed line that says CCP owns the South China Sea -- the equivalent would be if the United States suddenly declared it owns 80% of the Gulf of Mexico and all the Caribbean Islands.

Preposterous.

After PCA issues its ruling Tuesday next week the EU will become more focused and active, to specifically include the G-7.

July 7, 2016

Europe turning vocal ahead of South China Sea ruling

The pending tribunal ruling has served as the trigger for Europe's activism. "When a UN tribunal declares a ruling, the South China Sea is not an issue just in the Asian Pacific. It will become a global governance issue about how the world can maintain norm and the rule of law," Volker Stanzel, former German ambassador to China and Japan said.

China has said it will disregard the ruling, a response that would have huge implications for Europe as well. Letting Beijing trample on the ruling could lead more countries in the Middle East, Africa and elsewhere to do the same, a European security official said. China's refusal to accept the ruling also could embolden President Vladimir Putin in Russia, who continues to take a hard stance following its annexation of Crimea from Ukraine.

http://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Economy/International-Relations/Europe-turning-vocal-ahead-of-South-China-Sea-ruling

The French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian proposed last month that EU member states conduct joint patrols of the South China Sea. The dominoes are being put in place for the SCS issues between the CCP Dictators and Asean-US to become global. France btw is the only EU country that maintains a Pacific Naval Fleet...

The arrogance of the statement "little blue man " .......the Vietcong beat you tails without any technology and the Japs beat the Brits ....all were called yellow weak man by British intelligence....when you start to respect Asians, you understand this is Asia, not the USA. Any of the Asian countries can give you a good run for the money irregardless of your technology.

When you have the tenacity to do a logistics route over the Ho Chin Minh trail like the Vietcong ...that's Asian military for you...no whining and an ability to take the harsh weather and terrain here.

[keemapoot]

Here's more about the CCP Klutzes in Beijing and their ludicrous and arbitrary demands...

China has already announced it will not abide by the decision, claiming that there is nothing to arbitrate. From China's perspective there is no dispute, because the territory is China's. End of discussion.

Beijing has painted itself into a corner. The evidence backing up its territorial claims in the South China Sea is weak, and with the backing of the International Court of Arbitration there will be no reason — other than the threat of military force by China — for any country to abide by them. As a signatory to UNCLOS, it has endorsed the very border laws it is now violating.

China now faces a choice between a humiliating retreat from its claims or becoming a hypocrite that selectively abides by its international treaties and agreements. It will be a spectacular fall and China knows it, as evidenced by its announcement ahead of time it will ignore the decision. Some experts worry that China, having lost face in the international arena, could lash out after the decision is announced.

http://theweek.com/articles/634094/why-china-about-lash-south-china-sea

Klutzes. Same as all dictators.

The Chinese are learning fast, much better to be like the USA and not sign or rectify anything in future since as as superpower it's almost easier to swagger in and pretend the world agrees with what you are doing....much easier.

Yes, Lawrence, that is part of the superpower doctrine of "American exceptionalism." After the breakup of the Soviet Union, the US was, by many definitions the sole Hyperpower, and exercised this boss role as you've noted.

With China's recent rise to superpower status, they are also trying this one on with respect to the SCS, but they have made the mistake of not building important world coalition "buddies" that can support these lofty exceptionalism goals because they get something in return. Cambodia, Laos, etc., don't count. So, indeed, China has miscalculated that a superpower can act alone and get away with this. They have to learn there is a much more subtle end-game to 'superpowerness.'

[Publicus]

The arrogant and racist Central Kingdom has a big lesson to learn in the here and now of the 21st century.

They have no arguments to offer the modern world so the only option is to focus on attacking the other -- attack, attack, attack. The institutions of the Chinese Communist Party offer no model except to the Mugabes of the world that support CCP in the SCS, along with Putin and Hun Sen.

The only thing absolutists, i.e., dictators, understand and respect is force. Not Donald Trump force, but rational, reasonable, moderate strength. There always comes a time for a patient and forbearing democracy and a free people to take fresh paint to the old and faded red line.

For the people who keep asking for the plan...I wouldn't say this is set in concrete but here's something to work from...

A contractor with US Special Operations Command, Robert Haddick, has a sliding scale of events that could happen following the international court's ruling in favor of the Philippines:

1. China does nothing.

2. China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs issues a strongly worded statement followed by more full-page advertisements like the recent one in the Wall Street Journal that explained China’s position.

3. China’s Coast Guard and related nonmilitary maritime agencies hold a large, visible exercise in the Spratly Islands (current exercises are held near the Hainan island and the Paracel Islands).

4. A large naval exercise takes place in the Spratly Islands.

5. J-11 (Su-27) fighter aircraft deploy to new runways in the Spratly Islands.

6. H-6 bomber and J-11 exercises take place over the Spratly Islands that involve at least a regiment.

7. Permanent installations of HQ-9 surface-to-air missiles (SAM) and anti-ship cruise missiles (ASCM) are set up on the Paracel Islands.

8. An ADIZ is declared with a detailed explanation of how it will be enforced.

9. Dredging and island-building takes place at Scarborough Shoal.

10. Permanent installations of HQ-9 SAMs and ASCMs are set up in the Spratly Islands.

11. A naval exercise kicks off in the Spratly Islands that includes live missile shots from ships and from Hainan island.

12. Live-fire tests of DF-21D anti-ship ballistic missiles take place against underway target ships in the Philippine Sea.

Haddick, who wrote “Fire on the Water: China, America, and the Future of the Pacific,” said that if China executed No. 8 or higher, it would indicate that the Chinese leadership has concluded it possesses military escalation dominance in the South China Sea.

“I say this because I have read that the US government has privately warned Beijing that No. 9 and maybe No. 8 would lead to unspecified US responses," he said

Haddick predicts that the US will ignore responses up through No. 7, although there would be more US freedom-of-navigation operations and exercises in the future. “In other words, if it is No. 7 or less, no war, but more demonstrations by both sides.”

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/international/asia-pacific/2016/07/07/south-china-sea-philippines-islands/86794312/

CCP seems not to recognise or realise up to now is that Ashton Carter the hawk SecDef is in charge here. CCP thinks The Bystander is still in charge. Fact is the guy who worked in high positions with 11 secretaries of defense is now The Man.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Publicus

[LawrenceChee]

Here's more about the CCP Klutzes in Beijing and their ludicrous and arbitrary demands...

China has already announced it will not abide by the decision, claiming that there is nothing to arbitrate. From China's perspective there is no dispute, because the territory is China's. End of discussion.

Beijing has painted itself into a corner. The evidence backing up its territorial claims in the South China Sea is weak, and with the backing of the International Court of Arbitration there will be no reason other than the threat of military force by China for any country to abide by them. As a signatory to UNCLOS, it has endorsed the very border laws it is now violating.

China now faces a choice between a humiliating retreat from its claims or becoming a hypocrite that selectively abides by its international treaties and agreements. It will be a spectacular fall and China knows it, as evidenced by its announcement ahead of time it will ignore the decision. Some experts worry that China, having lost face in the international arena, could lash out after the decision is announced.

http://theweek.com/articles/634094/why-china-about-lash-south-china-sea

Klutzes. Same as all dictators.

The Chinese are learning fast, much better to be like the USA and not sign or rectify anything in future since as as superpower it's almost easier to swagger in and pretend the world agrees with what you are doing....much easier.

Yes, Lawrence, that is part of the superpower doctrine of "American exceptionalism." After the breakup of the Soviet Union, the US was, by many definitions the sole Hyperpower, and exercised this boss role as you've noted.

With China's recent rise to superpower status, they are also trying this one on with respect to the SCS, but they have made the mistake of not building important world coalition "buddies" that can support these lofty exceptionalism goals because they get something in return. Cambodia, Laos, etc., don't count. So, indeed, China has miscalculated that a superpower can act alone and get away with this. They have to learn there is a much more subtle end-game to 'superpowerness.'

Indeed in the south, the committee has been asking the government not to follow USA example and continue to use trade as the ties that will bind its neighbours together....the south has always been about trade and expanding trade routes.

As it is a big country run by many committees, there are differing opinions on this manner and there are some within other committees who are more hawkish and want wars (surprise the communists is not equal and actually have opinions ! )

However the constant show of USA hardware at your backyard makes it hard for China to stand by and continue to allow the USA to be the only superpower to dictate terms in a military sense.

There are some posters who think the USA has the advantage. The USA military has technology advantage but zero resolve to compete what it started or the ability to think long term will be its downfall much like its other recent campaigns.

Having seen what I have seen...I think the USA will be very surprised by what secretive communists have in their sleeves....the Chinese military is no pushover and unlike the USA, they have the resolve to finish what they started...hence the need to not start anything is actually more important.

However the meddling USA in trying to scupple China's business negotiations with Philippines makes it like a buzzing fly...sooner or later that damn tennis racket will have to be used to kill the damn fly in the yard..and the military factories will be cheering and popping their champagne ....as the SCS will ensure continuous buzzing factories in USA paying fat bonuses to the CEOs who own the senate.

[keemapoot]

Quoting Lawrence in part:

"However the meddling USA in trying to scupple China's business negotiations with Philippines makes it like a buzzing fly...sooner or later that damn tennis racket will have to be used to kill the damn fly in the yard..and the military factories will be cheering and popping their champagne ....as the SCS will ensure continuous buzzing factories in USA paying fat bonuses to the CEOs who own the senate."

Your statement is typical of many liberal Americans as well, stretching back to the Vietnam era and beyond, who allege there is a vast military-industrial complex conspiracy, which, because of its hawkish scare-mongering, and Washington lobbying, manages to fuel massive arms races. There is for sure, an element of truth to that. However, in this case, it just deflects the central miscalculation that China leadership has made...which is that they should have thought about forming important alliances first before their expansionism in the SCS.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Aren't' they like Thailand...they have a hand-me-down Russian aircraft carrier with no planes?

they also have a billion or so people who would turn kamikaze at the drop of a hat!.......adds a little something to an inferior few ships!..

keep in mind the US has not won a war since ww2..........

Two problems...they don't have a billion planes or pilots ?

And I think the Taliban and Saddam Hussain (twice) would have a different opinion ☺

Edited July 8, 2016 by OMGImInPattaya

[LawrenceChee]

Quoting Lawrence in part:

"However the meddling USA in trying to scupple China's business negotiations with Philippines makes it like a buzzing fly...sooner or later that damn tennis racket will have to be used to kill the damn fly in the yard..and the military factories will be cheering and popping their champagne ....as the SCS will ensure continuous buzzing factories in USA paying fat bonuses to the CEOs who own the senate."

Your statement is typical of many liberal Americans as well, stretching back to the Vietnam era and beyond, who allege there is a vast military-industrial complex conspiracy, which, because of its hawkish scare-mongering, and Washington lobbying, manages to fuel massive arms races. There is for sure, an element of truth to that. However, in this case, it just deflects the central miscalculation that China leadership has made...which is that they should have thought about forming important alliances first before their expansionism in the SCS.

I agree...this is the hard part of being a superpower...there is no definition to ties....hence the south have been asking for more rate deals as they see a better long term future in that.

Unfortunately it's a big country with many committees and everyone has different opinions and egos....hence the opinion China is a rubber stamp committee has no idea the fights that go behind the scenes....

[LawrenceChee]

Aren't' they like Thailand...they have a hand-me-down Russian aircraft carrier with no planes?

they also have a billion or so people who would turn kamikaze at the drop of a hat!.......adds a little something to an inferior few ships!..

keep in mind the US has not won a war since ww2..........

Two problems...they don't have a billion planes or pilots ?

And I think the Taliban and Saddam Hussain (twice) would have a different opinion ☺

They are still around in another form....this is the problem...no long term thinking on what to do next....which is why arms sales and wars is the wrong way to go about anything.

[impulse]

Other than the role reversals, this has such an Asian sense of deja vu, I'm halfway expecting to read about a railroad track blowing up soon.

Just like in Manchuria.

[Nasrullah]

Aren't' they like Thailand...they have a hand-me-down Russian aircraft carrier with no planes?

they also have a billion or so people who would turn kamikaze at the drop of a hat!.......adds a little something to an inferior few ships!..

keep in mind the US has not won a war since ww2..........

Two problems...they don't have a billion planes or pilots ?

And I think the Taliban and Saddam Hussain (twice) would have a different opinion ☺

two realities

1........they(chinese) hold around 9 trillion of US debt....i'm sure the chinese military is ticking along just nicely..

2.......taking on the russians and chinese hardly compares with the taliban and saddam now,does it!!!

2.......

[OMGImInPattaya]

Aren't' they like Thailand...they have a hand-me-down Russian aircraft carrier with no planes?

they also have a billion or so people who would turn kamikaze at the drop of a hat!.......adds a little something to an inferior few ships!..

keep in mind the US has not won a war since ww2..........

Two problems...they don't have a billion planes or pilots ?

And I think the Taliban and Saddam Hussain (twice) would have a different opinion ☺

two realities

1........they(chinese) hold around 9 trillion of US debt....i'm sure the chinese military is ticking along just nicely..

2.......taking on the russians and chinese hardly compares with the taliban and saddam now,does it!!!

2.......

At least try to get the basic facts right to give your posts a scintilla of credibility...the figure you're looking for is $ 1.2 trillion ( http://freebeacon.com/issues/china-1-2-trillion-us-debt/ ) And this is the most valuable foreign asset owned by the Chinese government (have you seen the price of US debt recently and everyone out there trying to get their hands on some). And it took over 1 billion Chinese factory workers slaving away for 10 hours a day over 20 years to earn this little nugget of gold. So no, I'm not worried in the least about a third-rate power like China.

There won't be any all out warfare between the two nations, just like their wasn't when the United States crushed the Soviet Union, and if there was, the US Navy could sink the entire Chinese navy in a day.

[boomerangutang]

LC: "Instead of organising a meeting, a conference, USA has again proved using military hardware to intimidate, to control their foreign policies is the only thing known to them. Not talking, not discussing, not meetings. Just missiles."

Who is not attending the int'l meeting re; the SCS issue? Who won't discuss it, outside of edicts issued from Beijing? Who is setting up missile launchers in the Paracels? If you didn't answer 'China' to all 3 questions, then you haven't been paying attention (or are obfuscating).

The US is renown for organizing meetings. Bush Sr arranged months of meetings before going into Kuwait with guns blazing, alongside a dozen other countries' militaries. The US engaged in many moons of meetings before sending jets over former Yugoslavia to help smaller entities there. Up until the US intervened, civilians in Sarajevo were getting picked off by Serbian snipers like a carnival pop-gun game. There were a ton of meetings before western powers intervened in E.Timor. In those, and many other actions to assist small countries bullied by larger countries, the US did not claim one sq.M of territory.

Contrast that to China sneaking in to islands near Fil's coast, and claiming them as their own. China made no prior warnings. They just clandestinely sailed in there like thieves in the night. They're going to get painful responses for their underhanded behavior. Naughty kids get their butts spanked.

[Publicus]

The USA has made a mess of middle east and now they are swinging over to SCS to create another arena for itself...adding Russians to the mix because they are starved out by the west...this will be another mess with no long term plans.

Long live the arm factories which control the senate and in creating these scenarios. Vote buying at its best.

Little blue men had been appearing throughout the SCS during recent years, however, since last year the little blue men are becoming a swarm.

The nine-dashed line that says CCP owns the South China Sea -- the equivalent would be if the United States suddenly declared it owns 80% of the Gulf of Mexico and all the Caribbean Islands.

Preposterous.

After PCA issues its ruling Tuesday next week the EU will become more focused and active, to specifically include the G-7.

July 7, 2016

Europe turning vocal ahead of South China Sea ruling

The pending tribunal ruling has served as the trigger for Europe's activism. "When a UN tribunal declares a ruling, the South China Sea is not an issue just in the Asian Pacific. It will become a global governance issue about how the world can maintain norm and the rule of law," Volker Stanzel, former German ambassador to China and Japan said.

China has said it will disregard the ruling, a response that would have huge implications for Europe as well. Letting Beijing trample on the ruling could lead more countries in the Middle East, Africa and elsewhere to do the same, a European security official said. China's refusal to accept the ruling also could embolden President Vladimir Putin in Russia, who continues to take a hard stance following its annexation of Crimea from Ukraine.

http://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Economy/International-Relations/Europe-turning-vocal-ahead-of-South-China-Sea-ruling

The French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian proposed last month that EU member states conduct joint patrols of the South China Sea. The dominoes are being put in place for the SCS issues between the CCP Dictators and Asean-US to become global. France btw is the only EU country that maintains a Pacific Naval Fleet...

The arrogance of the statement "little blue man " .......the Vietcong beat you tails without any technology and the Japs beat the Brits ....all were called yellow weak man by British intelligence....when you start to respect Asians, you understand this is Asia, not the USA. Any of the Asian countries can give you a good run for the money irregardless of your technology.

When you have the tenacity to do a logistics route over the Ho Chin Minh trail like the Vietcong ...that's Asian military for you...no whining and an ability to take the harsh weather and terrain here.

Hey Lawrence, the term "little blue men" is a variation of Putin's "little green men" that Xi's buddy Putin sent in to Ukraine under the pretense they were not Russian army soldiers (green army uniform color being the most common army color globally). Russian little green men had no insignia or identifying features, only plain green uniforms and ski masks.

In the instance of the "little blue men" which is a term that has appeared in global media, CCP is sending PLA Navy to islands of the SCS that it has grabbed from certain of the co-claimant countries, primarily Vietnam and the Paracel islands, and the Phils in the Spratlys but also affecting Brunei, Indonesia, Malaysia (eastern island Malaysia). One sees the definite presence of blue in the PLA Navy work uniforms in the photo I posted.

Putin's little green men were active combatants, whereas the PLA Navy little blue men are not engaged in any active hostilities involving live firings or explosions etc. Not yet. PLA Navy is however blockading Phils fishermen from the Spratlys and has drawn a figurative line between the Paracels CCP seized by force from Vietnam and which islands it has armed with airwarfare missiles.

I know English is not your first language and that you're a merchant not a geo-strategist, but do try to keep up thx.

[DaddyWarbucks]

CCP Klutzes in Beijing never anticipated a judicial involvement in their ongoing SCS belligerence, bellicosity, aggressions over the decades, even after the UNCLOS became effective in 1994. Yet here we have the UN sponsored Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague, created in 1895, examining the International Laws of the Sea and the CCP denial of it.

France is committed to Asia-Pacific presence, says senior officer

The Mistral-class amphibious assault ship Dixmude, berthed at Singapore's Changi Naval Base during a five-month deployment to the region in April 2015. Source: IHS/Kelvin Wong

French Navy Rear Admiral Bernard-Antoine Morio de l'Isle, who holds overall operational responsibility for the Pacific as well as for any naval assets operating in the region, asserted that the country is committed to protecting its citizens and economic interests in the Asia-Pacific region.

Speaking at Singapore's Changi Naval Base aboard the navy's second Aquitaine-class Frégate Européenne Multi-Missions (FREMM) frigate Provence - which is on a five-month inaugural deployment prior to commissioning - Rear Adm Morio de l'Isle noted that about 700,000 French citizens reside in the region, which also accounts for more than 30% of France's international trade.

http://www.janes.com/article/58688/france-is-committed-to-asia-pacific-presence-says-senior-officer

Not only did the Klutzes in Beijing not anticipate a formal contest over the law in a court, they did not anticipate the global reaction to their aggressions against the global economy, its lines of transport and communication especially. So now the Europeans are getting involved.

CCP Klutzes have the support of Zimbabwe and Russia while Asean led by the Philippines at The Hague have the law behind 'em. Not to mention the US Navy along with a few other navies.

CCP Klutzes are in over their heads. The great risk and danger is that they still have no clue of it.

Your warmongering rhetoric is on the intellectual and emotional level of a Hollywood action movie.

It is inflammatory nonsense of the kind dished out daily by the mainstream American media.

The Chinese leaders are ​"Klutzes"? ...compared to whom?...Bush, Blair, the Clintons, Donald Trump?

Are you the guy who drank the whole jug of Kool-Aid at the 4th of July picnic?

​

[Usernames]

CCP Klutzes in Beijing never anticipated a judicial involvement in their ongoing SCS belligerence, bellicosity, aggressions over the decades, even after the UNCLOS became effective in 1994. Yet here we have the UN sponsored Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague, created in 1895, examining the International Laws of the Sea and the CCP denial of it.

France is committed to Asia-Pacific presence, says senior officer

The Mistral-class amphibious assault ship Dixmude, berthed at Singapore's Changi Naval Base during a five-month deployment to the region in April 2015. Source: IHS/Kelvin Wong

French Navy Rear Admiral Bernard-Antoine Morio de l'Isle, who holds overall operational responsibility for the Pacific as well as for any naval assets operating in the region, asserted that the country is committed to protecting its citizens and economic interests in the Asia-Pacific region.

Speaking at Singapore's Changi Naval Base aboard the navy's second Aquitaine-class Frégate Européenne Multi-Missions (FREMM) frigate Provence - which is on a five-month inaugural deployment prior to commissioning - Rear Adm Morio de l'Isle noted that about 700,000 French citizens reside in the region, which also accounts for more than 30% of France's international trade.

http://www.janes.com/article/58688/france-is-committed-to-asia-pacific-presence-says-senior-officer

Not only did the Klutzes in Beijing not anticipate a formal contest over the law in a court, they did not anticipate the global reaction to their aggressions against the global economy, its lines of transport and communication especially. So now the Europeans are getting involved.

CCP Klutzes have the support of Zimbabwe and Russia while Asean led by the Philippines at The Hague have the law behind 'em. Not to mention the US Navy along with a few other navies.

CCP Klutzes are in over their heads. The great risk and danger is that they still have no clue of it.

Your warmongering rhetoric is on the intellectual and emotional level of a Hollywood action movie.

It is inflammatory nonsense of the kind dished out daily by the mainstream American media.

The Chinese leaders are ​"Klutzes"? ...compared to whom?...Bush, Blair, the Clintons, Donald Trump?

Are you the guy who drank the whole jug of Kool-Aid at the 4th of July picnic?

​

Actually, Publicus has a pretty good grasp of things outside the borders of the US. It's domestic issues where his analysis breaks down and goes off the rails.

[LawrenceChee]

The USA has made a mess of middle east and now they are swinging over to SCS to create another arena for itself...adding Russians to the mix because they are starved out by the west...this will be another mess with no long term plans.

Long live the arm factories which control the senate and in creating these scenarios. Vote buying at its best.

Little blue men had been appearing throughout the SCS during recent years, however, since last year the little blue men are becoming a swarm.

The nine-dashed line that says CCP owns the South China Sea -- the equivalent would be if the United States suddenly declared it owns 80% of the Gulf of Mexico and all the Caribbean Islands.

Preposterous.

After PCA issues its ruling Tuesday next week the EU will become more focused and active, to specifically include the G-7.

July 7, 2016

Europe turning vocal ahead of South China Sea ruling

The pending tribunal ruling has served as the trigger for Europe's activism. "When a UN tribunal declares a ruling, the South China Sea is not an issue just in the Asian Pacific. It will become a global governance issue about how the world can maintain norm and the rule of law," Volker Stanzel, former German ambassador to China and Japan said.

China has said it will disregard the ruling, a response that would have huge implications for Europe as well. Letting Beijing trample on the ruling could lead more countries in the Middle East, Africa and elsewhere to do the same, a European security official said. China's refusal to accept the ruling also could embolden President Vladimir Putin in Russia, who continues to take a hard stance following its annexation of Crimea from Ukraine.

http://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Economy/International-Relations/Europe-turning-vocal-ahead-of-South-China-Sea-ruling

The French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian proposed last month that EU member states conduct joint patrols of the South China Sea. The dominoes are being put in place for the SCS issues between the CCP Dictators and Asean-US to become global. France btw is the only EU country that maintains a Pacific Naval Fleet...

The arrogance of the statement "little blue man " .......the Vietcong beat you tails without any technology and the Japs beat the Brits ....all were called yellow weak man by British intelligence....when you start to respect Asians, you understand this is Asia, not the USA. Any of the Asian countries can give you a good run for the money irregardless of your technology.

When you have the tenacity to do a logistics route over the Ho Chin Minh trail like the Vietcong ...that's Asian military for you...no whining and an ability to take the harsh weather and terrain here.

Hey Lawrence, the term "little blue men" is a variation of Putin's "little green men" that Xi's buddy Putin sent in to Ukraine under the pretense they were not Russian army soldiers (green army uniform color being the most common army color globally). Russian little green men had no insignia or identifying features, only plain green uniforms and ski masks.

In the instance of the "little blue men" which is a term that has appeared in global media, CCP is sending PLA Navy to islands of the SCS that it has grabbed from certain of the co-claimant countries, primarily Vietnam and the Paracel islands, and the Phils in the Spratlys but also affecting Brunei, Indonesia, Malaysia (eastern island Malaysia). One sees the definite presence of blue in the PLA Navy work uniforms in the photo I posted.

Putin's little green men were active combatants, whereas the PLA Navy little blue men are not engaged in any active hostilities involving live firings or explosions etc. Not yet. PLA Navy is however blockading Phils fishermen from the Spratlys and has drawn a figurative line between the Paracels CCP seized by force from Vietnam and which islands it has armed with airwarfare missiles.

I know English is not your first language and that you're a merchant not a geo-strategist, but do try to keep up thx.

I know that you cannot speak or write Mandarin - classical or simplified. I know you cannot read traditional Chinese or speak in cantonese Teochew or Hokkien.

English is my working language and so far everyone seems to understand me pretty well although as I related earlier, typing in an airport lounge is different from you sitting at your desk with your trusty Taiwan laptop having all the time to bang out another article.

Using terms like merchant .... are you just being jealous of the trade being put in there....however if you believe dealing in multi million dollar deals are the same as your rice merchant in your soi...it looks like you need to try to elevate to a higher level of business dealings...

The south committees have some trump cards not laid out in the media....let's wait for the media to die down after the hearing and you can see the mechanics behind it....I didn't go to Manila often in the last 3 months just to buy some duty free Cebu Mangoes at NAIA airport.