Beijing begins military exercise in South China Sea

[craigt3365]

11 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

 

I somewhat agree with most of your opening paragraph.  However, no one can say a war involving US and China will never happen.

 

Second paragraph, I don't agree.  Some countries are puppets of other countries. As regards the SCS debacle, Cambodia and Laos are puppets of China.   I could elaborate further, but it would entail too much typing, and I need to get started on breakfast.  

China knows they won't win a war with the US.  They're too smart to do this.  And the US knows it will be massively expensive...and politically impossible to get it approved.  Never happen.

 

Cambodia and Laos may be closely tied to China, but so is Vietnam and look what's happening there.  Puppets only go along for so long...the Philippines is a great example, kicked the US out!

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-vietnam-moves-rocket-launchers-disputed-china-sea-050031053.html

 

 

Quote

 

HONG KONG (Reuters) - Vietnam has discreetly fortified several of its islands in the disputed South China Sea with new mobile rocket launchers capable of striking China's runways and military installations across the vital trade route, according to Western officials.

Diplomats and military officers told Reuters that intelligence shows Hanoi has shipped the launchers from Vietnam into position on five bases in the Spratly islands in recent months, a move likely to raise tensions with Beijing.

 

 

[Publicus]

18 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Yeah, so what's happening ?
The Phils leader said “Defense Secretary Delfin Lorenzana and I talked to U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry. He was okay. I had a rift with his ambassador (Philip Goldberg), his gay ambassador. He meddled during the elections, giving statements. You’re not supposed to do that. That son of a bitch really annoyed me,” .   Man actually said that.  Washington didn't like it, and summoned the Filipino envoy to clarify the comments.

What's the bigger picture ?  The new Phils leader, he knows Washington needs the Phils more than the Phils needs Washington. Washington is desperate for an excuse or reason to do some action on the South China Sea. This macho display of military hardware, it needs to be done on behalf of somebody. In this case, on behalf of the Philipinnes. And the Phils, they know that they might get a better deal by being with Beijing rather than Washington, hence, Duterte has decided to antagonise Washington in this way.

Yeah, Australia being a Washington puppet is a bit over-doing it. But the Phils being a puppet previously, well, that's far more true.
Come on, Washington, get real, you're beginning to clutch at straws. You're trying to make it look like that ASEAN is backing you on this macho display of military ships and planes.

We all know that YOU only do stuff IF it benefits YOU.  The latest scheme is to sell that THAAD stuff to the Asian countries. How many billions do you stand to make ? Why don't you show that you're more interested in peace, rather than profit, by selling the stuff at a deep discount price ?  You're suppose to be trying to arm Vietnam, that other country involved in this South China Sea thing. Vietnam needs you ??  They don't have big money, lets see you arm Vietnam at a discount price.  
 

 

 

The Phils leader said ...I talked to U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry. He was okay. I had a rift with his ambassador (Philip Goldberg), his gay ambassador. He meddled during the elections, giving statements. You’re not supposed to do that. That son of a bitch really annoyed me,”

 

 

You reference the newly elected president of the Philippines, Rodrigo Duterte, so here's a more complete  picture of the guy and your reference...

 

Quote

 

Duterte, a fast-talking former mayor who swept to power this spring, was telling reporters about his relationship with U.S. Ambassador Philip Goldberg when he made the wildly homophobic — and utterly undiplomatic — remark.

 

"As you know, I’m fighting with [John Kerry's.] ambassador. His gay ambassador, the son of a whore. He pissed me off,” Duterte said. 

Goldberg is not the first dignitary to be subjected to crude comments from Duterte. The now-president once made headlines for using the same "son of a whore" word to describe the pope.

 

During this year's election campaign, Duterte drew national and international condemnation for saying he wished he had "been first" to rape an Australian missionary who was assaulted and killed during a prison riot. The Australian ambassador objected, as did Goldberg. Duterte told them both to "shut up."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/08/10/that-time-the-philippine-president-called-the-u-s-envoy-the-homosexual-offspring-of-a-sex-worker/

 

 

 

Duterte in fact said he'd sever diplomatic relations with the US and Australia when he became president if each country did not "shut up" about his (repugnant) 'be the first to rape' remark.

 

If Pres. Duterte wants a better money-in-his-pocket relationship with the CCP Dictators in Beijing, using CCP development monies, then that would be a matter between he and the people who elected him. What Filipinos are concerned about however is the Phils becoming a food and other natural resource colony of CCP China. And people in the Phils are much stronger about the SCS issues vis-a-vis the Phils than is Duterte himself. Much stronger.

 

Duterte has the Phils military treaty obligations with the US to uphold, as just recently decided by the Phils Supreme Court.  The Phils military 100% supports the treaty and the historic and present military ties with the US, in respect of the SCS first and foremost.

 

The Phils constitution says the Phils' EEZ is sovereign and that no other sovereign country can operate in it, so, as pointed out by the Foreign Secretary Perfecto Yasay and Supreme Court justices (as an informal advisory), all negotiations with CCP in Beijing need to begin and finish with CCP recognising the ruling of the PCA in The Hague or they violate the constitution and Phils' sovereignty.

[tonbridgebrit]

On 10/08/2016 at 5:01 PM, Publicus said:

 

You, you come along here and make it look like that ASEAN is fully against China on this

 

CCP Dictators in Beijing are hell-bent on demolishing the UNCLOS and Asean. In each instance, CCP have the support of Asean member states Cambodia and Laos. No other member state supports CCP, either quietly or openly.

 

 

When you start saying that Thailand is dead against China, well, that's when we know you're spreading non-accurate information.

 

Present where I said that. I did not say that. It is another of your million concoctions in your own muddled head, which are both tiring and monotonous. So given you do this in 90% of your every post, kindly visit here   http://www.readingrockets.org/reading-topics/reading-comprehension

 

I presented one among many MSM reports of PM Gen. Prayuth as keynote speaker at the regional forum for defense ministers in Singapore several months ago saying the rule of international law must apply in the SCS and that the Asean proposed Document on the Conduct of the Parties on the South China Sea, opposed by CCP using Hun Sen and Laos, needs to be the legally binding mutually agreed instrument of regional cooperation. (Since the PCA ruling, CCP have begun to make noises in this direction, however, nothing concrete.)

 

 

those who support the freedom of navigation operations, that don't mean to say that they support firing a few missiles to dismantle the Chinese dots.

 

Correct. Now tell us something we do not know...however, I won't hold my breath on that.

 

 

Can YOU please, at this point,  say that you are against firing any missiles at any Chinese dots, missiles will only be fired IF China fires first ??

 

Everyone is opposed to this except the fenqing in the CCP who are the lunatic nationalist ethnic supremacists. Here's a statement by one Chinese fenqing taken from a CCP website....

 

The Chinese Nation will rise in this century to reclaim its status of the preeminent nation that it had enjoyed for thousands of years throughout human history but lost in the last 150 years, whether you like it or not, whether through peace or war.

Hopefully, it will be achieved through peaceful development, together with the rest of the nations and the world; however, if war is forced upon China by evil warmongers in order to derail Chinese nation's development and its rise, the Chinese Nation will go all the way to the nuclear armageddon with you -- Live Free or Die! Yes, indeed.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-skeptics/look-out-asia-chinas-peaceful-rise-over-17026?page=show

 

At first I'd thought that was someone crossing a bridge too far, but then I looked at it again to see it was an actual CCP fenqing in China.

Publicus, so you are confirming that you reckon that Washington IS operating on a policy of "missiles will only be fired at whatever Chinese dot/dots IF the Chinese dot/dots fire first" ?  Can you also confirm that you personally think that this a good idea, and that you support this policy ?  I repeat, Washington will only give orders to fire a missile, or a few missiles, only IF China fires first.


You raise the issue of a small number of people in China who want to take over planet earth using non-military or military means. I would like to point out that, in Britain, there are a few crazy people who want to build up a big British army and use it to take over planet earth. These people want to see Britain re-create the British Empire, an empire that covered a quarter of the world at it's height. These people exist, but they don't have any real power in Britain.

What about America ?  Are there mad people in America ?  Do some people in America want to carpet bomb whatever Middle East country, because, they think it will remove the Islamic threat against America ? Are there any mad people who reckon that banning Muslims entering their country is a good idea, because, because this removes the Islamic terrorist threat ? In America, do these people have power and influence in politics ?

I'm only trying to say, that people with extremist views exist in most countries. Stop raising the issue of a small group of extremists in China as a way of demonising China. You want to demonise China, why don't you raise the issue of how Walmart's shelves are stacked with goods that are made in China. You won't do that, because you know that it will make you look ridiculous.

(plus, it will lump you in with the Trump supporters, that's why you won't do this).

 

 

[tonbridgebrit]

21 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

 

Washington wants nothing more than for China to back off.  Peacefully.  And abide by the law.  I can guarantee you, Americans don't want another war.  And one with China will never happen.

 

As for being puppets, no country is a puppet.  They can, and do, what they want.  Most countries do what benefits them personally. Makes sense.

 

19 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

China knows they won't win a war with the US.  They're too smart to do this.  And the US knows it will be massively expensive...and politically impossible to get it approved.  Never happen.

 

Cambodia and Laos may be closely tied to China, but so is Vietnam and look what's happening there.  Puppets only go along for so long...the Philippines is a great example, kicked the US out!

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-vietnam-moves-rocket-launchers-disputed-china-sea-050031053.html

 

 

 

Craig3365, I do fully agree that the people of America don't want a war. And indeed, China is not interested in firing any missiles at American ships or aircradt. Beijing knows that it's navy and airforce can be destroyed by the Americans using two per cent of their fire  power.

So, what's happening ? Why the macho display ? Washington is hoping to make a profit out of this. Washington is acting on behalf of the American "defense contractors".  Washington is raising the tension in the South China Sea, deliberately trying to get Vietnam and the Phils to buy a load of miliary hardware. But Vietnam and the Phils are not actually rich nations, they don't have serious cash to buy the stuff. But still, Washington still wants to sell arms to them.

 

[tonbridgebrit]

20 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

 

I somewhat agree with most of your opening paragraph.  However, no one can say a war involving US and China will never happen.

 

Second paragraph, I don't agree.  Some countries are puppets of other countries. As regards the SCS debacle, Cambodia and Laos are puppets of China.   I could elaborate further, but it would entail too much typing, and I need to get started on breakfast.  

I do love the bit when people reckon that countries that support China are called puppets. And when countries support, or are backed by, Washington, well, they're called allies or partners.  

How about this ?  When Beijing OR Washington back and support whatever country, it's not for free. Both Beijing and Washington are looking at the situation, and trying to benefit from it.  Whenever Washington sells arms to any country, Washington is acting on behalf of whatever American 'defense contractors'.  The role Washington plays, is to try and make sure, that defense contractors don't sell arms to countries that might use the stuff AGAINST America in the future.

 

[tonbridgebrit]

11 hours ago, Publicus said:

The Phils leader said ...I talked to U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry. He was okay. I had a rift with his ambassador (Philip Goldberg), his gay ambassador. He meddled during the elections, giving statements. You’re not supposed to do that. That son of a bitch really annoyed me,”

 

You reference the newly elected president of the Philippines, Rodrigo Duterte, so here's a more complete  picture of the guy and your reference...

 

Duterte in fact said he'd sever diplomatic relations with the US and Australia when he became president if each country did not "shut up" about his (repugnant) 'be the first to rape' remark.

If Pres. Duterte wants a better money-in-his-pocket relationship with the CCP Dictators in Beijing, using CCP development monies, then that would be a matter between he and the people who elected him. What Filipinos are concerned about however is the Phils becoming a food and other natural resource colony of CCP China. And people in the Phils are much stronger about the SCS issues vis-a-vis the Phils than is Duterte himself. Much stronger.

"If Pres. Duterte wants a better money-in-his-pocket relationship with the CCP Dictators in Beijing, using CCP development monies, then that would be a matter between he and the people who elected him. "
Man, can you please not try to imply that Duterte wants money in his pocket from Beijing, in return for backing Beijing. Who wants to claim that the previous Filipino leader was taking cash from Washington, in return for allowing Washington to patrol the sea near the Phils on behalf of the Phils ?

Basically, the previous Phils government accepted benefits from Washington, and allowed Washington to do certain stuff in the sea near the Phils. These were benefits for the Filipino people.
The present Phils government, lead by Duterte (he was democratically elected, by the way), they might feel that the benefits given by Beijing are better than the benefits being given by Washington. And if the people in the Phils don't like Duterte, well, let them vote him out next time.

"What Filipinos are concerned about however is the Phils becoming a food and other natural resource colony of CCP China. "
See, and here we go again. 
So, Australia exports a mountain of coal and iron to China, that's called exporting products to China. By the way, how much coal does America export to China ?  At the same time, the Phils exporting food and natural resources to China, well, that's called becoming a food and natural resource colony for communist China. 
The Filipinos are concerned about this ? What other stuff do you want to say ?  The Thais, are they concerned that they are becoming a customer, a customer to buy cheap Chinese goods, to give money to a bunch of communists in China ? Are the Thais becoming concerned that Thailand is becoming a holiday camp for communist China, Pattaya is becoming a holiday camp for a load of Chinese communists ?  

London and Paris are going all out to attract the Chinese tourists, and so is Thailand.

 

[craigt3365]

3 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

 

Craig3365, I do fully agree that the people of America don't want a war. And indeed, China is not interested in firing any missiles at American ships or aircradt. Beijing knows that it's navy and airforce can be destroyed by the Americans using two per cent of their fire  power.

So, what's happening ? Why the macho display ? Washington is hoping to make a profit out of this. Washington is acting on behalf of the American "defense contractors".  Washington is raising the tension in the South China Sea, deliberately trying to get Vietnam and the Phils to buy a load of miliary hardware. But Vietnam and the Phils are not actually rich nations, they don't have serious cash to buy the stuff. But still, Washington still wants to sell arms to them.

 

 

It is about money.  Disrupt the flow of ships and you'll disrupt the global economy.  You're into conspiracy theories too much.  I use to work for several defense contractors.  They definitely don't run the US, contrary to what many want to believe!

 

The tension was raised by China illegally demolishing pristine reefs and turning them into military installations.  Place the blame where it fits.  Washington would like nothing more than for China to respect international laws.  Same with the surrounding countries.

[tonbridgebrit]

2 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

 

It is about money.  Disrupt the flow of ships and you'll disrupt the global economy.  You're into conspiracy theories too much.  I use to work for several defense contractors.  They definitely don't run the US, contrary to what many want to believe!

 

The tension was raised by China illegally demolishing pristine reefs and turning them into military installations.  Place the blame where it fits.  Washington would like nothing more than for China to respect international laws.  Same with the surrounding countries.

"Disrupt the flow of ships and you'll disrupt the global economy."   Yes, that's true. But in the South China Sea, there is no way that China is going to try and stop Korean and Japanese (or any other ships from other places) ships using the sea lanes.  Beijing won't attempt this, they know that this will give Washington the excuse that Washington needs to fire a few missiles. We all agree, Beijing is certainly NOT interested in any armed conflict, they know that they will certainly lose.

About the defense contractors. They make billions producing the military hardware for the American military. They also make a good profit selling their stuff to other countries.  They would probably end up selling their stuff to anybody who is willing to pay enough money, but Washington (as in the US government) prevents this. Washington does not want the military hardware being used against America (at a later date) by whatever countries. Hence, Washington controls who is allowed to buy the stuff.

It's mainly about money, yes. It's not just defense contractors, but a whole load of other companies too. Washington (like most governments) is constantly talking to other countries, arranging trade deals and other stuff. Yes, Washington acts to help whatever big companies. We have to bear in mind too, that numerous lobby groups exist, they're there to influence Washington.

 

[craigt3365]

Again, lets place blame where it lies.  And it's not with the US.  As for defense contractors, I worked for a few that went bankrupt.  Sometimes they make a profit on their deals with the government, sometimes they don't.  It's not easy dealing with the US government.  Heck, any government for that matter!

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/27/asia/us-china-south-china-sea/

 

Quote

Chinese ships and aircraft warned and tracked a U.S. Navy warship Tuesday as it came close to reefs claimed by China in contested waters in the South China Sea.

 

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2016/06/14/1592819/china-ships-stop-panatag-flag-planting
 

Quote

MANILA, Philippines - Chinese coast guard vessels prevented members of a Filipino nationalist youth group from planting a Philippine flag on a rocky outcrop at the Panatag (Scarborough) Shoal last Sunday.

 

 

http://www.cfr.org/asia-and-pacific/conflict-south-china-sea/p36377

 

Quote

Beijing's intention to exert greater control over the South China Sea appears undiminished. In 2012, China forcibly seized control of the previously unoccupied Scarborough Reef during a standoff with Philippine maritime vessels, despite agreeing to a mutual withdrawal brokered by Washington. China has seemingly been emboldened by this easy, cost-free conquest: it has since begun construction of artificial islands in the Spratly archipelago that will enable it to extend the range of the Chinese navy, air force, coast guard, and fishing fleets in just a few years. Once sufficient capabilities are in place for round-the-clock maritime and air presence over the South China Sea, Beijing is likely to declare an air defense identification zone (ADIZ), similar to the ADIZ it declared over the East China Sea in November 2013. The scale and pace of China's dredging activity has alarmed rival claimants Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei, and Taiwan.

 

[Publicus]

7 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

"Disrupt the flow of ships and you'll disrupt the global economy."   Yes, that's true. But in the South China Sea, there is no way that China is going to try and stop Korean and Japanese (or any other ships from other places) ships using the sea lanes.  Beijing won't attempt this, they know that this will give Washington the excuse that Washington needs to fire a few missiles. We all agree, Beijing is certainly NOT interested in any armed conflict, they know that they will certainly lose.

About the defense contractors. They make billions producing the military hardware for the American military. They also make a good profit selling their stuff to other countries.  They would probably end up selling their stuff to anybody who is willing to pay enough money, but Washington (as in the US government) prevents this. Washington does not want the military hardware being used against America (at a later date) by whatever countries. Hence, Washington controls who is allowed to buy the stuff.

It's mainly about money, yes. It's not just defense contractors, but a whole load of other companies too. Washington (like most governments) is constantly talking to other countries, arranging trade deals and other stuff. Yes, Washington acts to help whatever big companies. We have to bear in mind too, that numerous lobby groups exist, they're there to influence Washington.

 

 

Donald Trump too is obsessed about money, and we see that equates to knowing nothing about anything else, (to include a respectable way to make his money). The people who only see the money in everything exclusively and singularly need to be introduced to strategy and strategic thinking. This is true because strategic thinking is what CCP are doing in the SCS (and in the East Sea against Japan) and it is how the USA has been conducting itself for a hundred years. It is how the US is conducting itself in the SCS.

 

US military contractor corporations are not making a dime on the SCS.

 

What the USA is doing is called geo-strategy. 

 

So anyone who wants or needs to understand the U.S. Navy in the SCS, and of its projection of sea power as a global behemoth needs to know of the (late) Rear Admiral Alfred Thayer Mahan. 

 

RADM Mahan was the man who at the turn of the 20th century created for President Theodore Roosevelt a philosophy for a steel hulled US Navy that T.R. readily endorsed and eagerly sent out to tour the world. Mahan is the guy who had created the US Navy that went on to win World War II in the Pacific (also the Atlantic and the Med) for President Franklin Delano Roosevelt. And RADM Mahan is the father of the US Navy that is presently in the South China Sea, i.e., the 7th Fleet which has patrolled the western Pacific since it led the USA through the Pacific war 1941-45 to the final victory.

 

Commandant of the U.S. Naval War College, where senior officers prepare for the Navy's positions of the highest strategic command, Rear Admiral Alfred Thayer Mahan in 1890 literally wrote the book on the US Navy for the 20th century onward, The Influence of Sea Power Upon History, 1660-1783. Mahan's US Navy continues today and going forward strategically in to the 21st century. Mahan's seminal thesis was read in the capitals of Europe, in Moscow and in Tokyo -- the King of England read it and he ordered all of his naval officers to read it which they continue to do at academy. Indeed, at the U.S. Naval Academy RADM Mahan is outranked by only Neptune himself. 

 

 

Quote

 

The significance of Mahan's concept of a navy was not that it focused on how to win a naval battle or a naval war but, rather, that a strong and powerful navy itself makes history and that it determines the global destiny of nations. Mahan was not so much a historian but, rather, a global strategist [a hundred years before the age of globalisation/ism]

 

Mahan wrote of sea power as a basis for a nation’s fitness to play a great role in world affairs. He came up with compelling, navalist-oriented insights on matters of geography and territory, population and national character, and the soundness of a nation’s governance. Mahan’s book was, in some respects, a window into the soul of nations and their political power and a critical review of the inherent worth of any given people — or more pointedly, their government — to command national power or not.

 

This is the root concept of modern U.S. political policy and strategic doctrine of power projection abroad. 

 

http://dailyreckoning.com/alfred-thayer-mahan-the-influence-of-alfred-thayer-mahan/

 

 

 

I reiterate from the quote of RADM Mahan's philosophy of navies and their decisive impact on the course of history as indicating directly, "the inherent worth of any given people -- or more pointedly, their government -- to command national power or not." Mahan's reference is to any given people, their country, their government, their naval and armed forces. RADM Mahan does not refer only to the United States. 

 

Eight years after the publication of Mahan’s book, the United States initiated a war with Spain in which US elites applied for the first time US military power to extend political-economic interests to the far side of the planet, in the Philippines (1898). Mahan thus turned what had been a one-time venture by Commodore Perry to open Japan in 1853 into a national doctrine of a secure foreign engagement and connections; interaction, naval bases, treaties and the like.

 

Mahan's concepts were so powerful they superseded President Washington's prevailing policy of no foreign alliances or involvements. US elites not only adopted fully RADM Mahan's geo-strategic naval philosophy, but during World War II and after it extended Mahan's concepts to write treaties and to create alliances in military and in economic and trade terms. President Wilson's failed League of Nations at Geneva became the US-hosted and advocated United Nations located in New York City.

 

One can only hope that the CCP Dictators in Beijing, who are not known to seek things non-Marxist or not Maoist-Leninist, might at the least have heard of all of this. If CCP have any awareness of it, then they might recognise and comprehend their precious PRC is not a regional power, nor is the CCP China a global power and it certainly is not a superpower. The national character of China is dictatorship, censorship, authoritarianism, autocracy, oligarchy, elites, corruption. The economy of the CCP is built on quicksand imported from the former USSR, and China's military ranges inconsistently from too bulky on the land to too thin on the sea and in the air. And it is entirely local. CCP China is a model of a dingy city in a ditch, nothing more.

 

Here is in fact the current Russian and Putin take on RADM Mahan and Mahan's long-term impact on the USN and hence the world...

 

From Sputnik News...

 

Quote

 

The Real Secret of the South China Sea

 

To understand the Big Picture, we need to go back to 1890 when Alfred Mahan, then president of the US Naval [War] College, wrote the seminal The Influence of Sea Power Upon History, 1660-1783. Mahan’s central thesis is that the US should go global in search of new markets, and protect these new trade routes through a network of naval bases.

 

That is the embryo of the US Empire of Bases – which de facto started after the Spanish-American war, over a century ago, when the US graduated to Pacific power status by annexing the Philippines, Hawaii and Guam.

 

http://sputniknews.com/columnists/20160726/1043636722/south-china-sea-real-secret.html

 

 

 

 

Good on the Russians for this knowledge and awareness  because one does not see any CCP Chinese commentary on RADM Mahan or any awareness of him and his philosophy of globalisation via a powerful and dominant navy. The PLA Navy remains overmatched in the SCS and underwhelming as an entity. 

USN has had four ships named after Mahan, the current Mahan being a guided missile destroyer (DDG-72) presently home-ported in Norfolk, Va., from which it sails in support of worldwide U.S. Navy operations.

 

As we are seeing in the SCS and in the East Sea, the Chinese continue to believe they can win by their classic strategy to use masses strategically, as in the fishing boat militia of hundreds of boats with crews armed and trained by the PLA. The Chinese continue to believe they can prevail by using such means as slicing salami, but the US and allies have strategies to deal with this well known Chinese approach of massing up to overwhelm by using people, innocent looking fishing boats and psychological warfare.

 

So as the US has demonstrated in the SCS to date, and will continue to do going forward this year, next year etc Beijing will be manipulated to trot out its navy and its air forces, then boxed in along its coasts. The great disaster to the CCP Dictators in Beijing is if they try to use them. 

Edited August 12, 2016 by Publicus
Technical revision & typo

[tonbridgebrit]

On 12/08/2016 at 5:06 AM, craigt3365 said:

Again, lets place blame where it lies.  And it's not with the US.  As for defense contractors, I worked for a few that went bankrupt.  Sometimes they make a profit on their deals with the government, sometimes they don't.  It's not easy dealing with the US government.  Heck, any government for that matter!

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/27/asia/us-china-south-china-sea/

 

 

http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2016/06/14/1592819/china-ships-stop-panatag-flag-planting
 

 

http://www.cfr.org/asia-and-pacific/conflict-south-china-sea/p36377

 

 

Craigt,  I do accept that China building these harmless dots has made Vietnam a bit scared and worried, Vietnam feels threatened.
And yes, China making Vietnam a bit worried is actually pushing Vietnam into the arms of Washington. Vietnam feeling threatened means that Vietnam is under pressure to purchase American military hardware. So yes, Washington is secretly smirking, this is giving Washington the excuse it needs to sell arms to Vietnam.

However, when Beijing started this 'building dots in the South China Sea', they knew what was actually happening.  Beijing is conscious of the point that ASEAN's biggest trading partner is actually China, and basically, it's silly for Asean to feel threatened when it does a huge amount of trade with China. China isnot interested in threatening or harmng ASEAN, China just wants to export it's goods.

And indeed, look at the Phils right now. They're suppose to be at the centre of this 'confrontation' in the South China Sea. But, the Phils, they do a huge amount of trade with China, they stand to gain billions from the flood of Chinese tourists entering their country.  That's why, the new leader of the Phils, Duterte, he's not actually totally against China. He might actually negotiate with China about the Chinese dots.  Yes, China and ASEAN (and Vietnam, Phils, Thailand, Indonesia are all in ASEAN) are actually 'friends'.  

 

[tonbridgebrit]

On 12/08/2016 at 0:10 PM, Publicus said:

 

Donald Trump too is obsessed about money, and we see that equates to knowing nothing about anything else, (to include a respectable way to make his money). The people who only see the money in everything exclusively and singularly need to be introduced to strategy and strategic thinking. This is true because strategic thinking is what CCP are doing in the SCS (and in the East Sea against Japan) and it is how the USA has been conducting itself for a hundred years. It is how the US is conducting itself in the SCS.

 

US military contractor corporations are not making a dime on the SCS.

 

What the USA is doing is called geo-strategy. 

 

 

 

One can only hope that the CCP Dictators in Beijing, who are not known to seek things non-Marxist or not Maoist-Leninist, might at the least have heard of all of this. If CCP have any awareness of it, then they might recognise and comprehend their precious PRC is not a regional power, nor is the CCP China a global power and it certainly is not a superpower. The national character of China is dictatorship, censorship, authoritarianism, autocracy, oligarchy, elites, corruption. The economy of the CCP is built on quicksand imported from the former USSR, and China's military ranges inconsistently from too bulky on the land to too thin on the sea and in the air. And it is entirely local. CCP China is a model of a dingy city in a ditch, nothing more.

 

 

 

As we are seeing in the SCS and in the East Sea, the Chinese continue to believe they can win by their classic strategy to use masses strategically, as in the fishing boat militia of hundreds of boats with crews armed and trained by the PLA. The Chinese continue to believe they can prevail by using such means as slicing salami, but the US and allies have strategies to deal with this well known Chinese approach of massing up to overwhelm by using people, innocent looking fishing boats and psychological warfare.

 

So as the US has demonstrated in the SCS to date, and will continue to do going forward this year, next year etc Beijing will be manipulated to trot out its navy and its air forces, then boxed in along its coasts. The great disaster to the CCP Dictators in Beijing is if they try to use them. 

Publicus, YOUR previous comment about how you reckon that "Filipinos are concerned about their country becoming a food and natural resource colony for Communist China" actually explains the problem that Washington has with Beijing.

Okay, this opinion of yours, yes, you're trotting out what is Washington's opinion and attitude. Again, I point out the inconsistency of the opinion. As in, Australia is exporting coal and iron to China, and that's regarded as being okay. The Phils, they export stuff to China, that's not regarded as being 'positive' by Washington, it's regarded as a bad thing.  So, the Phils harvesting a load of crops, and digging out minerals, and selling it to China, that's regarded as a bad thing, it's called "exploitation being done by China".
By the way, this is how Washingon feels, BUT only a small percentage of the Filipinos feel this way.


But this opinion, Washington's concern and anger over the Phils doing more and more trade with China, this is at the heart of the problem in the South China Sea. As in, the real issue is NOT actually China building a load of harmless dots in the South China Sea. The real issue is, is Washington's growing anger over the Phils (and the rest of ASEAN) increasing trade with China.

See, what's actually happening in the Phils ?  And ASEAN too ?  Yes, more and more crops are being harvested and exported to China. More and more minerals are being dug out, and exported to China. More and more Chinese goods are being imported. The Chinese dots being built are symbolic of Beijing's increasing presence in ASEAN. YOU and Washington regard this as a bad thing. I say, why not just allow ASEAN to have the freedom to do what it wants to do.

And this whole Beijing-Washington confrontation,  this is what it's all about, it's about what will be happening in ASEAN in the future years. Beijing wants to export a mountain of manufactured goods to the ASEAN countries, and it wants to import a mountain of food and raw materials. Beijing is willing to flood ASEAN with Chinese tourists, giving valuable tourism revenue to ASEAN,  as part of the bigger picture or wider deal.

Washington regards this as, colonization by Beijing.  Publicus, you and Washington are looking at ASEAN, you're able to see what's happening, you're scared about the future.  I noticed previously, how you was constantly trotting out that TPP (Trans Pacific Partnership) thing. The TPP, an attempt to get them countries to do less trade with China, and more with America. After all, a free-trade zone without China,  what else is the goal ?  Well, it looks like the TPP is not actually going to happen. 
 

[Publicus]

14 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Publicus, YOUR previous comment about how you reckon that "Filipinos are concerned about their country becoming a food and natural resource colony for Communist China" actually explains the problem that Washington has with Beijing.

Okay, this opinion of yours, yes, you're trotting out what is Washington's opinion and attitude. Again, I point out the inconsistency of the opinion. As in, Australia is exporting coal and iron to China, and that's regarded as being okay. The Phils, they export stuff to China, that's not regarded as being 'positive' by Washington, it's regarded as a bad thing.  So, the Phils harvesting a load of crops, and digging out minerals, and selling it to China, that's regarded as a bad thing, it's called "exploitation being done by China".
By the way, this is how Washingon feels, BUT only a small percentage of the Filipinos feel this way.


But this opinion, Washington's concern and anger over the Phils doing more and more trade with China, this is at the heart of the problem in the South China Sea. As in, the real issue is NOT actually China building a load of harmless dots in the South China Sea. The real issue is, is Washington's growing anger over the Phils (and the rest of ASEAN) increasing trade with China.

See, what's actually happening in the Phils ?  And ASEAN too ?  Yes, more and more crops are being harvested and exported to China. More and more minerals are being dug out, and exported to China. More and more Chinese goods are being imported. The Chinese dots being built are symbolic of Beijing's increasing presence in ASEAN. YOU and Washington regard this as a bad thing. I say, why not just allow ASEAN to have the freedom to do what it wants to do.

And this whole Beijing-Washington confrontation,  this is what it's all about, it's about what will be happening in ASEAN in the future years. Beijing wants to export a mountain of manufactured goods to the ASEAN countries, and it wants to import a mountain of food and raw materials. Beijing is willing to flood ASEAN with Chinese tourists, giving valuable tourism revenue to ASEAN,  as part of the bigger picture or wider deal.

Washington regards this as, colonization by Beijing.  Publicus, you and Washington are looking at ASEAN, you're able to see what's happening, you're scared about the future.  I noticed previously, how you was constantly trotting out that TPP (Trans Pacific Partnership) thing. The TPP, an attempt to get them countries to do less trade with China, and more with America. After all, a free-trade zone without China,  what else is the goal ?  Well, it looks like the TPP is not actually going to happen. 
 

 

 

The Phils, they export stuff to China, that's not regarded as being 'positive' by Washington, it's regarded as a bad thing.

 

I did not say that. I never said that. I would not ever say that. It is not true, it is not accurate, it is wrong for you to assign it to me or to to say I think or that I believe any such thing, either pertaining to myself or in respect of the US Government or its people.

 

The whole of the post came from inside your bubble gum machine head. This happens in your every post. You assign to me your wrongheaded thoughts and ideas about what I post and what I say. You do it in virtually every post. I am fed up with it after having become patience exhausted long ago and for a long time.

 

Why don't you stick to threads on the CCP economy, trade, currency, finance etc because you warp and mangle this thread and any thread like it. The topic and theme of this thread are geostrategic military matters in the SCS, to include East Asia and South Asia.

 

The geostrategic military matters include diplomacy, international law of the sea and the rule of law in general, the strategic relations within Asean, between Asean and CCP and everyone else's relations with CCP Dictators in Beijing to include USA, Japan, South Korea, Australia, India, the EU. The French Pacific Naval Fleet is coming by the beginning of next year and PLA Naval joint maneuvers with elements of the Russian Navy will occur in the SCS next month. Where are your posts about any of this. They do not exist.

 

You infrequently post on topic because you cannot do so. So you post off topic consistently and almost exclusively and your are wrong in what you say about that too. Stop assigning to me as mine the nonsense ricocheting around inside your head beginning with your inability to be on topic in these matters.

 

I'd place you back on Ignore but you run too wildly in your every post for me to ignore.

[LawrenceChee]

The TPP like many of the grand schemes thought through by the G20 and G7 nations are always grand in vision and hard in implementation. Both incoming Presidents have vowed against it and interesting both VPs elect voted yes for TPP and now backtracking to say no to support their potential commanders in chief. 

 

It's this wishy washy methodology that China exploits as it runs into bilateral deals fast and furious , cuts to the core of the issues and often ask what's the price which for all the entertainment, dining etc...is the crux of the negotiation. What's the magic number to make both sides smile and sign on the doted line without worrying about hurting someone's feelings. 

 

I don't see the TPP working at all and the AIIB set up by the Chinese will be dominant in this region.  Like many of Chinese's initiatives, this one hits right to the core...being a bank , lending money for infrastructure projects and no political or religious tied to the condition to the loans. Exactly what developing countries in Asia like Philippines need. 

 

[Publicus]

35 minutes ago, LawrenceChee said:

The TPP like many of the grand schemes thought through by the G20 and G7 nations are always grand in vision and hard in implementation. Both incoming Presidents have vowed against it and interesting both VPs elect voted yes for TPP and now backtracking to say no to support their potential commanders in chief. 

 

It's this wishy washy methodology that China exploits as it runs into bilateral deals fast and furious , cuts to the core of the issues and often ask what's the price which for all the entertainment, dining etc...is the crux of the negotiation. What's the magic number to make both sides smile and sign on the doted line without worrying about hurting someone's feelings. 

 

I don't see the TPP working at all and the AIIB set up by the Chinese will be dominant in this region.  Like many of Chinese's initiatives, this one hits right to the core...being a bank , lending money for infrastructure projects and no political or religious tied to the condition to the loans. Exactly what developing countries in Asia like Philippines need. 

 

 

Once again, the thread and topic are:

 

Beijing begins military exercise in South China Sea

 

Unless TPP refers to a naval strategy or the name of a PLA Navy warship in the SCS your post is irrelevant and immaterial to the topic. You and the other guy seem to think the nine-dashed line invalidated by the PCA in The Hague is some kind of dotted line on a CCP business paper.

 

You're both wrong.

[craigt3365]

9 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Craigt,  I do accept that China building these harmless dots has made Vietnam a bit scared and worried, Vietnam feels threatened.
And yes, China making Vietnam a bit worried is actually pushing Vietnam into the arms of Washington. Vietnam feeling threatened means that Vietnam is under pressure to purchase American military hardware. So yes, Washington is secretly smirking, this is giving Washington the excuse it needs to sell arms to Vietnam.

However, when Beijing started this 'building dots in the South China Sea', they knew what was actually happening.  Beijing is conscious of the point that ASEAN's biggest trading partner is actually China, and basically, it's silly for Asean to feel threatened when it does a huge amount of trade with China. China isnot interested in threatening or harmng ASEAN, China just wants to export it's goods.

And indeed, look at the Phils right now. They're suppose to be at the centre of this 'confrontation' in the South China Sea. But, the Phils, they do a huge amount of trade with China, they stand to gain billions from the flood of Chinese tourists entering their country.  That's why, the new leader of the Phils, Duterte, he's not actually totally against China. He might actually negotiate with China about the Chinese dots.  Yes, China and ASEAN (and Vietnam, Phils, Thailand, Indonesia are all in ASEAN) are actually 'friends'.  

 

Harmless dots now setup with missile launchers, military hangers, warships....hardly harmless.  Vietnam get's it's weapons from Russia.  Sure, the weapons industry in the US would love to sell them hardware.  But so would all the other major players in the world.  Including Russia.

 

http://rbth.com/blogs/continental_drift/2016/06/02/russia-to-rule-vietnam-arms-market-despite-us-entry_599127

 

The Philippines is not the center of this, just the one nation who brought the ruling to the world court.  Here's what they are doing with Japan's help:

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/japan-fund-2-4-bn-railway-philippines-074112476.html

 

And what Vietnam is also doing:

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-vietnam-moves-rocket-launchers-disputed-china-sea-050031053.html

 

China is causing huge problems in the area. 

[LawrenceChee]

The last escalation between Taiwan and China had more hardware moved than the current...and yet for all the brutal  treason talk and escalated tensions...not one missile was fired at each other. ...even during good times, there was 1600 warheads pointing at each other and this is at a distance shorter than the Catalina island ferry ride to LA port.

 

The Chinese value trade more than war and will never go down the opath of the USA who likes to waste money, escalate tension, fire missiles and with no long term plans leave it for the next President to solve, move to the next theatre and create another mess. 

 

Craig...your posts and links highlight what I mentioned earlier ...

 

Philippines played the damsel card well and got free USA defence in terms of free coast guard upgrades and now Japan is offering a new railway with loans which was cheaper than the original quote of the Chinese....the Japs and USA got played and will never admit it by a cunning negotiator.

 

Watch the Chinese come back shortly with a new rail deal and the Chinese will win this one not the Japs in building the railway but the Philippines will get what they want at a bargain. 

 

Vietnam playing into the dispute, got its arm embargo lifted and can now freely buy from Russians and USA at a bargain setting up negotiations from both....Russians need to sell but USA got played but won't admit it

 

USA spent all the money patrolling in the last few months to naught and the bill is staggering but again won't admit it as in it internal memos, it has fulfilled another police man role and "saved" the world.....

 

ASEAN countries have long played the USA and Japs for free aid and this is a free for all grab...smartly Philippines and Vietnam have chosen to take their "bonuses" now...when the Chinese have simmered down, they have to come back and pay more...not a smart move but they overplayed the card this time and has to pay financially 

[craigt3365]

You are right, the Chinese value money more than anything.  And a war is a waste of money to them.  For better or worse, they do tend to sit on the sidelines and pick off the easy parts.  Like a vulture.

 

The US played?  For a few coast guard ships?  That now threaten China?  I'd say that was a pretty good play for a very small amount of money.  The Chinese tried a rail deal here in Thailand also.  But too many strings were attached.  They're now going with Japan.  Seems China doesn't have enough goodies to offer???  China seems to be losing steam here in Asia due to their shenanigans. Giving the West and other nations a wide open opportunity.  Great work! LOL

 

You don't give the US much credit.  I seriously doubt they've been played.  Way too smart for that, and way too much info neither you nor I know about.

[LawrenceChee]

Chinese were communist and didn't invent capitalism....you guys did mate. But the commies are better are deals than you guys are...so it's does feel like a pinch. 

 

You are missing the point Craig...

 

Philippines played USA for free defence pacts , equipment upgrades and got the deal sweetened by the Japs...the Chinese don't feel threatened by a decommissioned craft donated to the Philippines but for the Philippines it certainly a free upgrade for them without spending any $. Watch the Subic Bay area, Duarte is intelligent....if he plays it right, he will get some roads and major infrastructure fixed there at no cost to him or his government while he sends Ramos in HK and to Beijing to mend ties and get another deal. 

 

If you feel that being a vulture means that, thank goodness there is more vultures sitting at the sidelines instead of rushing in hot headed with no plans....asked the Afghans, Syrians, Iraqis, running off to parts of Europe and Turkey as refugees if they would value that vs "superheors who like to start wars" ...the millions of mothers there will tell you good riddance to USA and Assad and Russia and please stop these macho missile launch and leave them alone...so that they can bring their kids to school everyday, haggle at the market for fresh produce and allow their children some freedom to grow their Arab ways. 

 

The reality is Chinese are doing multi deals...they may lose the train deal with Thailand for now ...key word is for now....The Chinese know negotiations take time. Taken the new train carriages from Bangkok to Chiangmai ? They started about a 2 weeks ago and yes made in China. 

 

Just saw a Rolls Royce in Chiangmai in Dhara Dhevi with Kunming plates...old friends coming down to Chiangmai and Chiangmai to start acquisition deals...it's the first for Chiangmai to see a RR and wont be the last as he is bringing his Bentley next. 

 

You are right...those not dealing at the government levels at missing out a lot of information on what's happening behind the scenes...I am heading to Manila again today and it's not to buy Cebu Mangoes at the Duty Free. 

[Publicus]

10 hours ago, LawrenceChee said:

The last escalation between Taiwan and China had more hardware moved than the current...and yet for all the brutal  treason talk and escalated tensions...not one missile was fired at each other. ...even during good times, there was 1600 warheads pointing at each other and this is at a distance shorter than the Catalina island ferry ride to LA port.

 

The Chinese value trade more than war and will never go down the opath of the USA who likes to waste money, escalate tension, fire missiles and with no long term plans leave it for the next President to solve, move to the next theatre and create another mess. 

 

Craig...your posts and links highlight what I mentioned earlier ...

 

Philippines played the damsel card well and got free USA defence in terms of free coast guard upgrades and now Japan is offering a new railway with loans which was cheaper than the original quote of the Chinese....the Japs and USA got played and will never admit it by a cunning negotiator.

 

Watch the Chinese come back shortly with a new rail deal and the Chinese will win this one not the Japs in building the railway but the Philippines will get what they want at a bargain. 

 

Vietnam playing into the dispute, got its arm embargo lifted and can now freely buy from Russians and USA at a bargain setting up negotiations from both....Russians need to sell but USA got played but won't admit it

 

USA spent all the money patrolling in the last few months to naught and the bill is staggering but again won't admit it as in it internal memos, it has fulfilled another police man role and "saved" the world.....

 

ASEAN countries have long played the USA and Japs for free aid and this is a free for all grab...smartly Philippines and Vietnam have chosen to take their "bonuses" now...when the Chinese have simmered down, they have to come back and pay more...not a smart move but they overplayed the card this time and has to pay financially 

 

The post states the consistent theme the Chinese and East Asians in general have a manipulative view of international relations, in business and trade especially, that they condescendly act out on these careful, smart, superior calculations and manipulations against the West in general but against the United States in particular. As if the West and the USA had learned nothing of the Chinese during the 19th century and to date in the present century.

 

The attitude is revealing.

 

It is also overstated and it is in fact cynical and wrong. It is why the Chinese experiment in state monopoly capitalism and dictatorship imported from the failed USSR spiced up with Chinese characteristics is going bust.

 

If China were so clever maybe it would not be so busy catching up with the modern world (and failing). It China were so clever perhaps the Chinese Century would not have already ended before it ever began. And perhaps CCP would not be pursuing failed state corporate economics, politics, government, society, culture, civilisation. 

 

In addition to having a reactionary political economy, CCP are revanchist and irredentist even after seeing those malicious attitudes fail from their inception in Europe in the mid-19th century through to 1945. CCP are going in the same direction with the same outcome in the SCS and in the East Sea against Japan.

 

Rotsa ruck in all of it so that the unfortunate Chinese people don't get fooled again. But then the view of the Chinese autocrats and aristocrats over thousands of years to the present is that the mass of the people are ignorant and stupid, so it might be that the people of China will continue to suffer. Perhaps indefinitely.

 

The great failure of Chinese elites is that they haven't any idea that the greatness of a people lies with the people themselves, not with their elites. The success or failure of a nation is defined in this very way, so your way has already gone the way of the Dodo bird.

[ExpatOilWorker]

Good to see this thread is back in business again.

[Publicus]

 

Any friend of Japan in East Asia is a friend of the United States.

 

Fact is Philippine President Duterte much prefers to relate to Washington out of the spotlight, as in drawing very close to Japan. He should go for it and Duterte is doing exactly that. He will play one off against the other which will displease CCP and please Tokyo and Washington.

Philippines, Japan to China: respect law in sea row

 

Japan and the Philippines joined forces on Thursday to call on China to observe the rule of law in resolving maritime disputes after an international tribunal rejected Beijing's claims to most of the South China Sea. Japanese Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida met his counterpart Perfecto Yasay in the southern Philippine city of Davao where both pledged to work closely to boost maritime security while facing separate sea disputes with China.

"We have agreed that in the pursuit of the solution to the conflict in the maritime area, it is important to base ourselves on the rule of law and resort to peaceful means and not the use of force or coercion," Kishida said, referring to the UN-backed tribunal's finding published in July.

"We invoke and urge China to make sure that maritime security and the rule of law must completely and uncompromisingly be respected," Yasay said in his statement.

 

http://www.brecorder.com/general-news/172/74367/

 

 

 

Japan to fund $2.4 billion railway for congested Manila

 

Japan on Friday announced it is pouring $2.4 billion into a new railway aimed at easing Manila’s notorious gridlock.

 

Japan, the Philippines’ top trading partner and source of aid, said the 38-kilometer (24-mile) elevated commuter line would connect Manila to nearby Bulacan province to decongest the capital and help spur economic activity.

 

“This is one of the biggest projects Japan has ever embarked upon using the yen loan,” Masato Ohtaka, deputy press secretary for Japan’s foreign ministry, told reporters in Manila. “Railways are one of our fortes. … We sympathize with the Filipinos that this is a project that needs to be done very, very quickly.”

 

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/08/13/business/japan-fund-2-4-billion-railway-congested-manila/

 

 

Japan to deliver 10 Coast Guard vessels to PH

http://news.abs-cbn.com/video/news/08/12/16/japan-to-deliver-10-coast-guard-vessels-to-ph

 

 

Tokyo, Manila discuss bigger defence deal

A Japanese coast guard helicopter hovers above a Philippine coast guard ship in the Philippine-Japan maritime exercise off Manila Bay on Wednesday. Officials from China, Australia, and Vietnam observed the maritime exercise.

 

The defence deal was discussed in an 80-minute meeting between Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte and Japanese Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida on Thursday in the southern city of Davao.

 

"Both governments are looking into the possibility of getting more vessels, this time the bigger ones," Mr Masato Ohtaka, deputy spokesman for Japan's foreign ministry, told reporters in Manila yesterday

.

Japan will also lease four TD-90 surveillance aircraft to the Philippines.

 

http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/tokyo-manila-discuss-bigger-defence-deal

 

CCP goes anywhere near Scarborough Shoal there will be a crisis or some kind of big trouble cause President Obama in Washington in March told Xi Jinping face to face to stay away from it. Any Air-Sea Defense Identification Zone by CCP over all or a part(s) of the SCS will be another source of a definite confrontation between CCP and USA and their navies and air forces.

 

Nothing much along these lines are expected however until after the G-20 meeting in CCP China in September. After that, all bets would be off. However, the Pentagon expects CCP will have its natural and man made islands in SCS fully militarised during 2017.

 

2017 is btw the Year of the Rooster in the Chinese astrological calendar, the Rooster being the most unlucky of all animals in China. People born during that year traditionally can expect a series of hard times during their lives. Then of course there is the SCS.

 

[Publicus]

Australia Friday negated on the grounds on national security a CCP Dictators pursuit to purchase investments in an Australian electric power grid.

 

UK new PM Theresa May last week put a hold on the CCP Dictators plan and design to construct a nuclear power plant in the country. She also criticised Chancellor George Osborne's "gung-ho" attitude toward the Dictators.

 

PM May said she was concerned about the risks to national security and the "nature of Chinese investment".

 

Philippines is of course accepting Japan's offer to construct a rail system in and around Manila and is discussing with Japan construction of a rail system in President Duterte's home province of Mindanao. The Phils themselves have expressed concern about possibly becoming a food and resource colony of the CCP Dictators.

 

United States had already prohibited the CCP Dictators' technology company Huawei doing business in USA after discovering espionage spyware in the company's systems used and distributed in the United States.

 

Another bad week for the CCP Dictators in Beijing. They're beginning to look more and more like Donald Trump over there.

Hinkley Point: China warns Theresa May over 'suspicious' decision to delay nuclear power station

State media says the move 'could stain [Britain's] credibility as an open economy'

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/hinkley-point-china-theresa-may-nuclear-power-security-edf-a7166716.html

 

CCP Dictators themselves can't possibly think they have an "open economy." But then who's to question the masters of the universe in their revival of the magnificent Central Kingdom.

 

 

Australia to block Chinese bid for power grid

August 12, 2016, Friday

 

Australia will not allow the electricity network in its most populous state to be sold to Chinese and Hong Kong bidders, Treasurer Scott Morrison said yesterday, citing national security concerns.

 

Morrison said he told the bidders their proposals to secure a 50.4 per cent stake in Ausgrid, which supplies power to more than 1.6 million homes and businesses, were “contrary to the national interest”.

 

Morrison said there were national security concerns about NSW’s power assets, without giving details about what the concerns were.

 

http://www.theborneopost.com/2016/08/12/australia-to-block-chinese-bid-for-power-grid/

 

 

Huawei, ZTE Banned From Selling to U.S. Government

The ongoing tiff between the U.S. and China over the security of Chinese telecoms equipment took a new twist last week when Washington largely forbid several government agencies from buying products from industry giants Huawei and ZTE.

 

This ongoing clash began last October, when a Washington report said telecoms equipment from Huawei and ZTE, two of China’s most successful high-tech exporters, posed a national security risk.

 

http://techonomy.com/2013/04/huawei-zte-banned-from-selling-to-u-s-government/

 

 

Australian confirms Huawei ban

Australia's new and conservative prime minister Tony Abbott has reportedly confirmed the nation's decision to ban Huawei from providing any kit to the country's national broadband network.

 

Australia famously banned Huawei not long after Barack Obama and his entourage visited the nation in 2010. The ban is thought to have come after US intelligence authorities explained to Australia why the home of the free isn't keen on Huawei. Once Australia learned why, it slammed the door on Huawei's bid to build the NBN.

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/01/australian_confirms_huawei_ban/

 

May you live in interesting times.

[LawrenceChee]

I am unsure if people will look back 5 years from now and give credit to Philippines for being a skilled negotiator.....see what they are getting according to the links mentioned by Comrade P.

 

That is the to my point earlier...Philippines is playing USA, Japan and its allies for lots of freebies. 

Edited August 15, 2016 by LawrenceChee

[Publicus]

4 hours ago, LawrenceChee said:

I am unsure if people will look back 5 years from now and give credit to Philippines for being a skilled negotiator.....see what they are getting according to the links mentioned by Comrade P.

 

That is the to my point earlier...Philippines is playing USA, Japan and its allies for lots of freebies. 

 

Phils is not playing China though izzit. Never. Impossible. CCP are too smart, clever, genetically superior. Especially against those Filipinos. Those SouthEast Asians.

 

Fact is Japan long ago entered the Phils at the invitation of the Phils. Japan had in fact been in the Phils for decades as the Phils number one trading partner and provider of aid.

 

CCP hasn't ever been a player in the Phils. It isn't a player now. CCP aren't going to be a player in the Phils. Not now, not foreseeably. Neither will the Phils allow Beijing to  transmogrify it into becoming a CCP food and natural resource colony, to include Phils fishing grounds in and around the Spratlys and Scarborough Shoal EEZ's respectively.

 

So CCP are aced out again, same as in Australia, by the UK, by the USA, by Japan, India, Thailand and so on. Nobody believes CCP any more and nobody wants anything to do with CCP, save for Laos, Cambodia, Russia, Zimbabwe.

 

(Hun Sen is at the top of everyone's shit list starting with Asean right on across the ocean to Washington and the EU...when the fit hits the shan in the current assassination marked leadin to the 2018 election Hun Sen is likely to end up well taken care of after his retirement escape to CCP China.) For one thing, Hun Sen will be precluded making trouble along the border with Vietnam to distract and to deflect Hanoi from the SCS and the CCP there, in the Paracels especially.

 

Your saying to come back to the SCS and the Phils in five years further runs up the white flag. CCP has stuck itself in the middle of a disaster of its own making. It has lost face immeasurably. So we're told to come back after five years time to see how CCP shall have magically and mysteriously prevailed to dominate all domains. That's feeble and pathetic to say and it is because there is nothing positive to say about the present or the foreseeable future of CCP in SCS -- or anywhere else in the region.

 

The weakest and most feeble reply in the book. The book of ancient wisdom.

[Publicus]

 

Pentagon believes CCP will move to begin construction at Scarborough Shoal after the G-20 meeting in CCP China next month and before the election in the US in early November.

 

CCP thinks President Obama would be distracted by the election campaign, which is wrong. Hillary Clinton is going to win. US has in existence for immediate activation a thorough strategy, plan, and response to CCP becoming active at Scarborough Shoal.

 

If the Klutzes in Beijing are thinking in these typically wrongheaded ways, things could start to get messy and loud in SCS at Scarborough Shoal, but also in the Spratlys. 

 

The Chinese military appears to be dramatically increasing its presence around a key island in the South China Sea, sending a strong message to Washington.

As Beijing continues its land reclamation projects in the South China Sea, Washington has remained adamant about one island in particular: Scarborough Shoal....and the US has maintained that any attempts to militarize the shoal would cross a "red line."

 

While China has maintained a small presence of two or three maritime security vessels around Scarborough Shoal, that number has escalated in the last few weeks. US officials familiar with intelligence reports tell the Washington Free Beacon that there are now over a dozen Chinese ships in the area.

 

In addition to security vessels, Beijing will also permit hundreds of fishing vessels to harvest the rich waters around Scarborough Shoal. This tactic was similarly deployed in the East China Sea, where Beijing sought to legitimize its claim to the Senkakus, islands claimed by both China (where they are known as the Diaoyus) and Japan.

 

"The signaling from the US side was that this was serious," a former US official, speaking on condition of anonymity, told the Financial Times.

 

http://sputniknews.com/asia/20160812/1044182190/scarborough-shoal-red-line.html

 

If CCP believes it can create chaos by simultaneously seizing the Senkaku Islands of Japan and which Washington has said is included in the US-Japan mutual defense treaty, CCP would indeed create havoc in the entire region.  Not to CCP advantage. Not to the advantage of anyone of the region or the world.

 

President Obama is firm on this, as is SecDef Ashton Carter and National Security Advisor Susan Rice who, as in the case of Carter, is a China hawk. The hawks in Washington have been running the show the past two years as the approach of talk talk talk has become thoroughly discredited and dismissed due to CCP intransigence.

 

No one believes or trusts CCP any more to honor its own pledge of a peaceful rising China. Given the economics bad news continuing to occur in the CCP, and these regional aggressions and belligerence, the only thing we have to be concerned about more than a rising China is a falling and belligerent CCP.

[LawrenceChee]

don't be dumb.....China has been here for centuries doing trade with Phils...we know that the negotiations was going to be tough...I have acknowledged that China overplayed the Phil card this time and have to pay financially for it.

 

Go google SM & Ayala family and see how far they go back....people in the know understand in Philippines the private sector build the infrastructure and not the government.....but then you don't have a lot of experience in this so you are forgiven for your ignorance....i just arrived at the airport....when was the last time you took a drive here from the bay area to the airport ? seen the poverty there and the road conditions ?

 

Been like this for years and the government  need to focus on that and improve the lives there ...great the Japs are here to build the railway ...they have not started here for a good reason and neither have the Koreans as they understand the bureaucracy and delays later....and with the loan amount & interest % ...I am not sure how Philippines intend to pay it back...

 

 

[Publicus]

3 hours ago, LawrenceChee said:

don't be dumb.....China has been here for centuries doing trade with Phils...we know that the negotiations was going to be tough...I have acknowledged that China overplayed the Phil card this time and have to pay financially for it.

 

Go google SM & Ayala family and see how far they go back....people in the know understand in Philippines the private sector build the infrastructure and not the government.....but then you don't have a lot of experience in this so you are forgiven for your ignorance....i just arrived at the airport....when was the last time you took a drive here from the bay area to the airport ? seen the poverty there and the road conditions ?

 

Been like this for years and the government  need to focus on that and improve the lives there ...great the Japs are here to build the railway ...they have not started here for a good reason and neither have the Koreans as they understand the bureaucracy and delays later....and with the loan amount & interest % ...I am not sure how Philippines intend to pay it back...

 

 

 

CCP are not building the infrastructure Pres. Duterte has set out to do, as he focuses on the severely outdated Manila traffic and transportation systems and in his home province of Mindanao.  Beijing is not a player in this.

 

Read my posts please. Which means I never said China has no presence in the Phils, or that China hasn't ever had any presence or role in the Phils. I said the Japanese presence is dominant, has been dominant, continues to be dominant. Everyone knows the ethnic Chinese are the engine of economic development in East Asia, but CCP sycophants seem not to know Japan is the Phils largest trade partner, the chief provider of aid, and that the Phils is closely tied to Japan, both countries being US mutual defense formal treaty allies.. 

 

In the typhoon of a couple of years ago, CCP Dictators in Beijing consciously and deliberately ignored aiding and assisting the disaster stricken Phils until the Boyz were regionally and globally hounded to provide some assistance (and only token assistance as it was) despite the antagonisms going on over the Spratlys and Scarborough Shoal. CCP is heavy on teaching lessons and punishing at all times, while maliciously ignoring peoples' needs in times of disaster or crisis.

 

It is not Japan that is trying to steal the Phils sovereign territory in the seas adjacent to the Phils, in the Phils EEZ, respectively, of the Spratlys and Scarborough. It is the CCP Dictators. The population of the Phils welcomes Japan with open arms while being actively hostile to the Chinese who are trying to take effective control of the Phils and everything Philippine. CCP wants Phils food, the natural resources of the Phils undersea and in the fishing grounds of the Phils' EEZs mentioned here. 

 

CCP since the ruling by the PCA in The Hague has been cyber attacking Vietnam, to include shutting down its major airports for periods of time, hitting VN government websites and of course VN military systems, as well as banks and other vital institutions of the economy and society. CCP is determined to show Phils what will come to it if the Phils does not submit and obey China.  

 

Nobody trusts or believes CCP China due to the longstanding fraudulent claims of Beijing to be a peaceful rising power. CCP is instead a receding economy and a pieceful belligerent, aggressive, bellicose falling power. CCP need to face the reality they are not a regional power, nor are they a global power -- and CCP certainly are not a superpower. CCP is none of these and will not become any of these.

 

Everyone in the region and in Washington and Tokyo are now reasonably convinced CCP will  likely set out to forcefully seize the Senkaku Islands of Japanese sovereignty in the East Sea and do the same against Scarborough Shoal in the Phils' EEZ. The anticipated actions would likely occur after the G-20 meeting in CCP September 4th and 5th and before the US election November 8th. CCP have apparently decided to show the region and Washington that opposing its aggressions are futile. If so, then we'd all be in for serious developments and consequences.

 

However, CCP must not make the terrible error of thinking President Obama would be distracted or paralyzed by the election campaign. US has a ready to activate strategy, military plan, diplomatic program and more to address any such actions immediately, swiftly, decisively. SecState John Kerry is not in charge of this one. SecDef Ashton Carter is the new sheriff in town here with National Security Adviser Susan Rice. Do not underestimate either, and do not underestimate or misjudge President Obama on the rebalance to the Asia-Pacific. 

 

Japan did so disastrously a long time back. China must not do so presently or going forward.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Publicus
Minor revision

[Publicus]

 

 

CCP's free ride in its SCS aggressions, belligerence, bellicosity is over.

 

Now with the PCA ruling the nations of the region and the world have their legal and moral basis and high ground to push back.

 

This is more the civilian approach, in contrast to Vietnam which has placed the top of the line EXTRA Israeli missile on five islands in the Spratlys (Extended Range Artillery Rocket) which is designed to defend shore areas against amphibious invasions or excursions by enemy forces. 

 

Indonesia, Malaysia Vow to Sink Chinese and Other Ships Intruding into their South China Sea Waters

 

In a dire warning to neighboring nations -- especially China -- the governments of Indonesia and Malaysia have promised to sink Chinese and other foreign fishing vessels intruding into the waters they claim as part of their exclusive economic zone in the South China Sea.

 

The threat is directed mainly at China whose fishing vessels have continuously violated Indonesian waters sometimes escorted by China Coast Guard ships. The sudden resolve by both nations follows a July 12 ruling by the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague that declared illegal China's "nine-dash line" it used as the basis for its ownership of the South China Sea.

 

Indonesia destroys foreign fishing boats in 2015.(Photo : Indonesian Navy)

Indonesia will conduct the most spectacular demonstration of its resolve to keep its waters inviolate with a mass sinking of 71 foreign vessels from China and other nations on August 17, Indonesia's Independence Day.

 

http://www.chinatopix.com/articles/98414/20160816/indonesia-malaysia-vow-sink-chinese-ships-intruding-south-china-sea.htm#ixzz4Hd5PhKnU

 

Well that was yesterday so good also to see a couple of Asean nations getting together on their own to stand up to the CCP aggressors in some effective way. As is typical, it's the response that matters so we'll see how the arrogant CCP might react to or to deal with this major development. 

[LawrenceChee]

There are times when really enjoy seeing Mickey mouse jumping up and down over a few boats.....in some of the earlier posts, there are perhaps close to 300,000 fishing boats ? Burning a few gets some so excited indicates the level of political understanding....when Vietnam were angry, they demonstrated by burning a few factories....the Chinese smashed a few iPhones and it went viral....

 

meanwhile anything else happened ? I just concluded a meeting with some ASEAN partners and this is a real level in Manila...government levels...all shaking hands and giving bear hugs with the Chinese delegates...any hatred ? They left that at the door for the politicians....after all politicians all over the world get a good shake of their legs when people are cited about the agendas....In ASEAN, the businessman rules the bulk of the infrastructure projects and there is always an unspoken agenda rule....leave the newspaper and politics outside the door so that we can strike a deal. 

 

for those like to make fun of business man, traders and an obsession for money....the group of businessmen understand....almost like the threads on the Thai Elite Visa.... where envy strikes into a pitiful conversation...