Beijing begins military exercise in South China Sea

[LawrenceChee]

China is a communist state and national pride has been on the agenda for all communist states.

This makes the North Korean co-ordinated parade flashcards such a great show to watch....minus the pun, it's an amazing display of co-ordination when they flips the pictures and I always wonder how they do it.

As such,. some media will be reporting this as a nationalistic thing to rise up to so that the groups who are ultra hardliners can be pleased and the moderates on the south continue with our WSJ, NYT,. FT, SMCP etc and vpns to access alternative viewpoints and there will be those who are wont care what this ruling means especially for those in the Yunnan mountains areas where they don't see any ocean shorelines at all. If the mountains are moving, they will be worried...some small islands they could not care less.

So while the warmongers make it sound like the entire 1.4 billion Chinese are fed on one drip being brainwashed with the same ideas...the reality on the ground is the diversity of opinions ranges from the crazy to the indifferent.

In about 6 months, this will be news that nothing has happen or changed....that's when it becomes interesting ...not the present moment.

Edited July 13, 2016 by LawrenceChee

[boomerangutang]

LC, you make it sound like southern China is somewhat independent from northern. They all kowtow to the Communist Party heavies in Beijing, don't they? Is there talk of the south wanting to gain independence from the north? I'm not asking joke questions, but am curious.

[Publicus]

LC, you make it sound like southern China is somewhat independent from northern. They all kowtow to the Communist Party heavies in Beijing, don't they? Is there talk of the south wanting to gain independence from the north? I'm not asking joke questions, but am curious.

LC is not going to say much about this if anything at all as any kind of talk of "splitism" almost always gets the person put away quickly and for a long time, even to entertain to argue against it. CCP long ago made it a verboten topic.

During my extended time in Guangdong province which stretches from Hong Kong/Shenzhen and Guangzhou City to the trade port of Shantou on the coast opposite the southwest of Taiwan I talked with a lot of people about independence for the province, which itself pumps $1 Trillion into the CCP economy. A lot of the younger generation -- 35 and younger -- would like to try HKG style democracy and liberties, or try the Taiwan style. Others, to include those among the younger generations, call such fellow CCP Chinese "traitors."

Business types to include bourgeoise hoteliers continue to be devoted to the 5000 year tradition of dictatorship even as we are already into the 21st century and the age of IT and the like. The bottom line is that Guangdong province which includes Ye Olde Canton (Guangzhou City) and other more historically open cities and provinces south of the Yangtze aren't going anywhere soon -- or at all.

People south of the Yangtze who want a better quality of life politically, culturally, free economics markets and in their education, go to HKG. I know a bunch of 'em. One university senior I met while I was on faculty in Guangzhou went on to HKG to a master's program at HK University of Science and Technology, which is one of the global best (he asked for a recommendation in English which I wuz pleased to provide). His gf also from GZ went for a maser's to HK Ploytechnic Institute, which is another good one but not up to HKUST. In HKG she dumped him. She finally told him flat out she will do much better in life to marry a guy born and raised in HKG because, the HKG born and raised guy makes all mainland Chinese appear to be what they in fact are, i.e., dullard dolts. Men or women mainland Chinese. It's two radically different worlds which is why CCP absolutely cannot afford to allow either HKG or Taiwan to continue as they are and as they've been.

Democracy and liberty do flourish whereas dictatorship and censorship are the plague of the mind, soul, spirit. Chinese know their history of the eternal cycle of good times then bad times and so on, so they readily accept the CCP line that only the Communist Party (dictatorship) can rule China. This is widely and readily accepted. However, if CCP China subdivided into four nation states and set free Tibet and Xinjiang it'd be a whole new ballgame. (Four new nations based on cultural and civilisational geography to include a Chinese language variation: Pearl River Basin, Yangtze River civilisation, Yellow River civilisation; Beijing and west central China.) However, talk of subdividing China into four sovereigns absolutely explodes the heads of CCPs.

[LawrenceChee]

LC, you make it sound like southern China is somewhat independent from northern. They all kowtow to the Communist Party heavies in Beijing, don't they? Is there talk of the south wanting to gain independence from the north? I'm not asking joke questions, but am curious.

This is why I say the west will never understand Asians and our mindset.....China is a big country and has always been ruled by groups of various interests ...it looks collective under the CCP / communist model because there is also strength in those numbers and when decisions have to be made that will benefit millions vs a small pocket of individuals.

The minds of the Chinese have always been independent ...being quiet in nature or not as vocal as the west does not mean they have no thoughts....we all have differing ways to think and what's important.

Nobody kowtow anymore unless you have been watching too much period drama on channel 3.

The south are pre-dominantly merchants as some posters call it, we care more about trading, business flow than politics but are pragmatic enough to understand politics comes with governance so we work our business around it

We will never call for a breakaway. China is a one country.

The same friends I had baying for "let's leave the bloody EU" and now wondering what does that mean for them in Spain....they bought their villas....they are staying there as their homes have been sold..I told them get ready for visa runs soon and a higher tax, re-org of your loans as you are no longer an official resident etc etc....

The Chinese are not dumb or quiet....we just have a different way of expressing ourselves in our families group.

[LawrenceChee]

LC, you make it sound like southern China is somewhat independent from northern. They all kowtow to the Communist Party heavies in Beijing, don't they? Is there talk of the south wanting to gain independence from the north? I'm not asking joke questions, but am curious.

LC is not going to say much about this if anything at all as any kind of talk of "splitism" almost always gets the person put away quickly and for a long time, even to entertain to argue against it. CCP long ago made it a verboten topic.

During my extended time in Guangdong province which stretches from Hong Kong/Shenzhen and Guangzhou City to the trade port of Shantou on the coast opposite the southwest of Taiwan I talked with a lot of people about independence for the province, which itself pumps $1 Trillion into the CCP economy. A lot of the younger generation -- 35 and younger -- would like to try HKG style democracy and liberties, or try the Taiwan style. Others, to include those among the younger generations, call such fellow CCP Chinese "traitors."

Business types to include bourgeoise hoteliers continue to be devoted to the 5000 year tradition of dictatorship even as we are already into the 21st century and the age of IT and the like. The bottom line is that Guangdong province which includes Ye Olde Canton (Guangzhou City) and other more historically open cities and provinces south of the Yangtze aren't going anywhere soon -- or at all.

People south of the Yangtze who want a better quality of life politically, culturally, free economics markets and in their education, go to HKG. I know a bunch of 'em. One university senior I met while I was on faculty in Guangzhou went on to HKG to a master's program at HK University of Science and Technology, which is one of the global best (he asked for a recommendation in English which I wuz pleased to provide). His gf also from GZ went for a maser's to HK Ploytechnic Institute, which is another good one but not up to HKUST. In HKG she dumped him. She finally told him flat out she will do much better in life to marry a guy born and raised in HKG because, the HKG born and raised guy makes all mainland Chinese appear to be what they in fact are, i.e., dullard dolts. Men or women mainland Chinese. It's two radically different worlds which is why CCP absolutely cannot afford to allow either HKG or Taiwan to continue as they are and as they've been.

Democracy and liberty do flourish whereas dictatorship and censorship are the plague of the mind, soul, spirit. Chinese know their history of the eternal cycle of good times then bad times and so on, so they readily accept the CCP line that only the Communist Party (dictatorship) can rule China. This is widely and readily accepted. However, if CCP China subdivided into four nation states and set free Tibet and Xinjiang it'd be a whole new ballgame. (Four new nations based on cultural and civilisational geography to include a Chinese language variation: Pearl River Basin, Yangtze River civilisation, Yellow River civilisation; Beijing and west central China.) However, talk of subdividing China into four sovereigns absolutely explodes the heads of CCPs.

Talk like this is always dangerous as the poster has talked to individuals and not a country .....there will always be different views and that has been the point i have been making....people in china has a different voice and what is important to them

The question is what these individuals want is that the betterment for 1.3 billion ?

Comparing HK and Guangzhou is a bad comparison...the HKG hols are highly vocal and hate their living environment for 7 million ...so if their policies were that good, the Chinese would have gone there instead of Canada, Australia, USA etc ...the fact is not all the Chinese went there because in some of their minds this is not the best place for them.

Hence I have always mentioned that governance is not an easy task...managing the livelihood of 1.3 billion or 25 million in Guangzhou is very different from a smaller job of traveling and getting feedback from selected groups.

when you make decisions, you will change the lifestyle of 25 million...the question is now will the decision benefit the bulk of the 25 million or satisfy a few vocal ones with an alternate view....this is the hard part of policy making....those who have never held leadership positions involving millions may find this hard to to understand and continue to berate the point of wanting to be different.

I urge those who have not visited china...make a trip down there and see it for yourself and stand by and think of the magnitude of the government services...even collecting rubbish for 25 million is different from collecting rubbish for my moobaan right now and the cleaners are already complaining their supervisors give them a hard time and their pay is too low....

[LawrenceChee]

LC, you make it sound like southern China is somewhat independent from northern. They all kowtow to the Communist Party heavies in Beijing, don't they? Is there talk of the south wanting to gain independence from the north? I'm not asking joke questions, but am curious.

LC is not going to say much about this if anything at all as any kind of talk of "splitism" almost always gets the person put away quickly and for a long time, even to entertain to argue against it. CCP long ago made it a verboten topic.

During my extended time in Guangdong province which stretches from Hong Kong/Shenzhen and Guangzhou City to the trade port of Shantou on the coast opposite the southwest of Taiwan I talked with a lot of people about independence for the province, which itself pumps $1 Trillion into the CCP economy. A lot of the younger generation -- 35 and younger -- would like to try HKG style democracy and liberties, or try the Taiwan style. Others, to include those among the younger generations, call such fellow CCP Chinese "traitors."

Business types to include bourgeoise hoteliers continue to be devoted to the 5000 year tradition of dictatorship even as we are already into the 21st century and the age of IT and the like. The bottom line is that Guangdong province which includes Ye Olde Canton (Guangzhou City) and other more historically open cities and provinces south of the Yangtze aren't going anywhere soon -- or at all.

People south of the Yangtze who want a better quality of life politically, culturally, free economics markets and in their education, go to HKG. I know a bunch of 'em. One university senior I met while I was on faculty in Guangzhou went on to HKG to a master's program at HK University of Science and Technology, which is one of the global best (he asked for a recommendation in English which I wuz pleased to provide). His gf also from GZ went for a maser's to HK Ploytechnic Institute, which is another good one but not up to HKUST. In HKG she dumped him. She finally told him flat out she will do much better in life to marry a guy born and raised in HKG because, the HKG born and raised guy makes all mainland Chinese appear to be what they in fact are, i.e., dullard dolts. Men or women mainland Chinese. It's two radically different worlds which is why CCP absolutely cannot afford to allow either HKG or Taiwan to continue as they are and as they've been.

Democracy and liberty do flourish whereas dictatorship and censorship are the plague of the mind, soul, spirit. Chinese know their history of the eternal cycle of good times then bad times and so on, so they readily accept the CCP line that only the Communist Party (dictatorship) can rule China. This is widely and readily accepted. However, if CCP China subdivided into four nation states and set free Tibet and Xinjiang it'd be a whole new ballgame. (Four new nations based on cultural and civilisational geography to include a Chinese language variation: Pearl River Basin, Yangtze River civilisation, Yellow River civilisation; Beijing and west central China.) However, talk of subdividing China into four sovereigns absolutely explodes the heads of CCPs.

Would we go after the Australia and start calling them names as well and suggest that Australia be craved out and given back to Aborigines n the north and create a different state ?

Would the UK now be divided and should be divided back into Scotland, Wales , Ireland & English ?

Should USA create a different state and spilt their country back to the Indians and their rightful land claims ?

Should Vietnam / Laos / Thailand / Myanmar now create a new state in the northwest for their hill tribes people who are clearly not Vietnamese and speak a different language ?

[keemapoot]

One thing I have noted for many years regarding foreigners' views of China is that "old China hands," even in their younger years, whether they be academics, businessmen, lawyers, or others, view China quite differently from the fly-in visitors or occasional residents. These accidental expats always seem to think they have figured out China, whereas the real China hands continue to discover and learn and be relatively non-judgmental.

[LawrenceChee]

I suggest for those who believe that the Chinese are now living without soul, spirit head down to the Grand palace today....the noise there will be enough to convince you that those Chinese certainly have spirt and soul and enough to make you go nuts and want a bit of peace and serenity.

[boomerangutang]

there is 1.3 billion people and of course there are hotheads and morons....look around you and travel more widely...idiots are every where and of every nationality.

china wont go to war but it will disappoint the crazy warmongers who is salivating for WWIII and all sorts of star wars missiles fireworks....China is not stupid.

Won't stop us digging in the meanwhile though....

What are you 'digging' for? Regardless; any conflict that ensues from the SCS imbroglio stems squarely from China. Here's the equation:

China enters the SCS and occupies/transforms islands. Tension develops. The only way to ease tensions is for Chinese to go back to China. Simple.

LC opines; "The minds of the Chinese have always been independent"

I don't agree. Look at the Cultural Revolution, from just 50 years ago. Chairman Mao makes a stupid statement, and hundreds of Chinese mobs go running around causing destruction and misery. It reminds me of an ant colony. If one ant releases a pheronome indicating danger, the entire colony goes into attack mode within a minute.

[Publicus]

The UNCLOS Tribunal ruling in The Hague makes illegal all seven CCP artificial islands constructed on rocks that are submerged at high tide.

This means the next Freedom of Navigation Operation by the US Navy to prove CCP have no sovereign or territorial rights over and around the artificial islands will likely transit close enough for a shave and a haircut. That would be moving in up to the 500 meter safety zone assigned to ships at a submerged rock.

It also means the Pentagon is likely to quit on its innocent passage tact to its FON operations at the artificial islands. USN destroyers conducting FON operations will henceforth be very likely to turn on radars and activate weapons systems -- they may also broadcast statements and conduct drills. This is because ILOS says this can be done against illegal entities in either an EEZ or in otherwise territorial or contiguous waters.

Mischief Reef in the Spratlys which has an airfield built up from an underwater rock is behind the Pentagon's FON door number one of the post-Tribunal ruling. It has a large airfield for a population no more than the size of a football team which means it will be for military use sooner rather than later.

PLA Navy fighter jets and Air Force fighter jets augmented by antiaircraft missile batteries to be located at Mischief would deny the local air space of the SCS to anyone CCP didn't like, in a swath from the Philippines to Singapore to include Indonesia Malaysia and Vietnam all of which are claimants to one extent or another.

It is now established that under the UNCLOS, the CCP has no sovereignty within its nine-dashed line nor does it have any territorial claims, no claims to contiguous zones, and no claims of any EEZs.

To say CCP is a SCS intruder would be an understatement. CCP are in fact belligerent aggressors against their neighbor states of Asean and against the entire region as well as against the international regime on the laws of the seas and the oceans.

CCP continues 24/7 to fiercely denounce and dismiss the UNCLOS. CCP seeks to destroy UNCLOS and to sweep it away decisively and completely. CCP is the Asean neighbor from hell and to the world CCP is not the peacefully rising China it had pretended to be.

[Publicus]

LC, you make it sound like southern China is somewhat independent from northern. They all kowtow to the Communist Party heavies in Beijing, don't they? Is there talk of the south wanting to gain independence from the north? I'm not asking joke questions, but am curious.

LC is not going to say much about this if anything at all as any kind of talk of "splitism" almost always gets the person put away quickly and for a long time, even to entertain to argue against it. CCP long ago made it a verboten topic.

During my extended time in Guangdong province which stretches from Hong Kong/Shenzhen and Guangzhou City to the trade port of Shantou on the coast opposite the southwest of Taiwan I talked with a lot of people about independence for the province, which itself pumps $1 Trillion into the CCP economy. A lot of the younger generation -- 35 and younger -- would like to try HKG style democracy and liberties, or try the Taiwan style. Others, to include those among the younger generations, call such fellow CCP Chinese "traitors."

Business types to include bourgeoise hoteliers continue to be devoted to the 5000 year tradition of dictatorship even as we are already into the 21st century and the age of IT and the like. The bottom line is that Guangdong province which includes Ye Olde Canton (Guangzhou City) and other more historically open cities and provinces south of the Yangtze aren't going anywhere soon -- or at all.

People south of the Yangtze who want a better quality of life politically, culturally, free economics markets and in their education, go to HKG. I know a bunch of 'em. One university senior I met while I was on faculty in Guangzhou went on to HKG to a master's program at HK University of Science and Technology, which is one of the global best (he asked for a recommendation in English which I wuz pleased to provide). His gf also from GZ went for a maser's to HK Ploytechnic Institute, which is another good one but not up to HKUST. In HKG she dumped him. She finally told him flat out she will do much better in life to marry a guy born and raised in HKG because, the HKG born and raised guy makes all mainland Chinese appear to be what they in fact are, i.e., dullard dolts. Men or women mainland Chinese. It's two radically different worlds which is why CCP absolutely cannot afford to allow either HKG or Taiwan to continue as they are and as they've been.

Democracy and liberty do flourish whereas dictatorship and censorship are the plague of the mind, soul, spirit. Chinese know their history of the eternal cycle of good times then bad times and so on, so they readily accept the CCP line that only the Communist Party (dictatorship) can rule China. This is widely and readily accepted. However, if CCP China subdivided into four nation states and set free Tibet and Xinjiang it'd be a whole new ballgame. (Four new nations based on cultural and civilisational geography to include a Chinese language variation: Pearl River Basin, Yangtze River civilisation, Yellow River civilisation; Beijing and west central China.) However, talk of subdividing China into four sovereigns absolutely explodes the heads of CCPs.

Would we go after the Australia and start calling them names as well and suggest that Australia be craved out and given back to Aborigines n the north and create a different state ?

Would the UK now be divided and should be divided back into Scotland, Wales , Ireland & English ?

Should USA create a different state and spilt their country back to the Indians and their rightful land claims ?

Should Vietnam / Laos / Thailand / Myanmar now create a new state in the northwest for their hill tribes people who are clearly not Vietnamese and speak a different language ?

The post misses the point entirely.

The point is the 1.5 billion population of China and the fact the CCP justifies its rule by dictatorship by saying only the Communist Party (dictatorship) can rule over this China. That may well be true. So let's look at some non-ideological and non-belligerent alternative notions.

Such as subdividing China in to four sovereign republics based on geographic civilisations to include language variations (the farther you go in China the less intelligible your particular Chinese language becomes to other Chinese who have their own Chinese language). This would also mean independence would be returned to Tibet and to Xinjiang.

While the Beijing republic would likely keep its CCP dictatorship, HKG, Shenzhen, Guangzhou among others south of the Yangtze would very likely move to the Taiwan model of a sovereign republic. This is the Pearl River delta and basin civilisation, i.e., Canton. Let the Yangtze River civilisation make its own determination -- likewise for the Yellow River civilisation.

China is not one unitary civilisation in any respect. The CCP China is divided civilisationally, culturally -- to include languages -- North-South by the Yangtze, and it is divided between the haves east of the mountains and the have-nots in the mountain spine of China and west of it, to include Tibet and Xinjiang.

So kindly do try to follow the bouncing ball plse thx rather than go running off on the wrong track and to simply attack attack attack the other.

[Publicus]

One thing I have noted for many years regarding foreigners' views of China is that "old China hands," even in their younger years, whether they be academics, businessmen, lawyers, or others, view China quite differently from the fly-in visitors or occasional residents. These accidental expats always seem to think they have figured out China, whereas the real China hands continue to discover and learn and be relatively non-judgmental.

The post is further proof that one can easily and smugly fail to recognise a longish term residence despite the fact he keeps reading it.

[LawrenceChee]

LC, you make it sound like southern China is somewhat independent from northern. They all kowtow to the Communist Party heavies in Beijing, don't they? Is there talk of the south wanting to gain independence from the north? I'm not asking joke questions, but am curious.

LC is not going to say much about this if anything at all as any kind of talk of "splitism" almost always gets the person put away quickly and for a long time, even to entertain to argue against it. CCP long ago made it a verboten topic.

During my extended time in Guangdong province which stretches from Hong Kong/Shenzhen and Guangzhou City to the trade port of Shantou on the coast opposite the southwest of Taiwan I talked with a lot of people about independence for the province, which itself pumps $1 Trillion into the CCP economy. A lot of the younger generation -- 35 and younger -- would like to try HKG style democracy and liberties, or try the Taiwan style. Others, to include those among the younger generations, call such fellow CCP Chinese "traitors."

Business types to include bourgeoise hoteliers continue to be devoted to the 5000 year tradition of dictatorship even as we are already into the 21st century and the age of IT and the like. The bottom line is that Guangdong province which includes Ye Olde Canton (Guangzhou City) and other more historically open cities and provinces south of the Yangtze aren't going anywhere soon -- or at all.

People south of the Yangtze who want a better quality of life politically, culturally, free economics markets and in their education, go to HKG. I know a bunch of 'em. One university senior I met while I was on faculty in Guangzhou went on to HKG to a master's program at HK University of Science and Technology, which is one of the global best (he asked for a recommendation in English which I wuz pleased to provide). His gf also from GZ went for a maser's to HK Ploytechnic Institute, which is another good one but not up to HKUST. In HKG she dumped him. She finally told him flat out she will do much better in life to marry a guy born and raised in HKG because, the HKG born and raised guy makes all mainland Chinese appear to be what they in fact are, i.e., dullard dolts. Men or women mainland Chinese. It's two radically different worlds which is why CCP absolutely cannot afford to allow either HKG or Taiwan to continue as they are and as they've been.

Democracy and liberty do flourish whereas dictatorship and censorship are the plague of the mind, soul, spirit. Chinese know their history of the eternal cycle of good times then bad times and so on, so they readily accept the CCP line that only the Communist Party (dictatorship) can rule China. This is widely and readily accepted. However, if CCP China subdivided into four nation states and set free Tibet and Xinjiang it'd be a whole new ballgame. (Four new nations based on cultural and civilisational geography to include a Chinese language variation: Pearl River Basin, Yangtze River civilisation, Yellow River civilisation; Beijing and west central China.) However, talk of subdividing China into four sovereigns absolutely explodes the heads of CCPs.

Would we go after the Australia and start calling them names as well and suggest that Australia be craved out and given back to Aborigines n the north and create a different state ?

Would the UK now be divided and should be divided back into Scotland, Wales , Ireland & English ?

Should USA create a different state and spilt their country back to the Indians and their rightful land claims ?

Should Vietnam / Laos / Thailand / Myanmar now create a new state in the northwest for their hill tribes people who are clearly not Vietnamese and speak a different language ?

The post misses the point entirely.

The point is the 1.5 billion population of China and the fact the CCP justifies its rule by dictatorship by saying only the Communist Party (dictatorship) can rule over this China. That may well be true. So let's look at some non-ideological and non-belligerent alternative notions.

Such as subdividing China in to four sovereign republics based on geographic civilisations to include language variations (the farther you go in China the less intelligible your particular Chinese language becomes to other Chinese who have their own Chinese language). This would also mean independence would be returned to Tibet and to Xinjiang.

While the Beijing republic would likely keep its CCP dictatorship, HKG, Shenzhen, Guangzhou among others south of the Yangtze would very likely move to the Taiwan model of a sovereign republic. This is the Pearl River delta and basin civilisation, i.e., Canton. Let the Yangtze River civilisation make its own determination -- likewise for the Yellow River civilisation.

China is not one unitary civilisation in any respect. The CCP China is divided civilisationally, culturally -- to include languages -- North-South by the Yangtze, and it is divided between the haves east of the mountains and the have-nots in the mountain spine of China and west of it, to include Tibet and Xinjiang.

So kindly do try to follow the bouncing ball plse thx rather than go running off on the wrong track and to simply attack attack attack the other.

The Irish, Welsh , Scots & English are as different as they can be even ...so what's the argument there for not doing an equal spilt ?

The Chinese wont spilt and it's wishful thinking...try instead of typing rhetoric dreams to come back to reality...it's much more pragmatic

Edited July 14, 2016 by LawrenceChee

[keemapoot]

One thing I have noted for many years regarding foreigners' views of China is that "old China hands," even in their younger years, whether they be academics, businessmen, lawyers, or others, view China quite differently from the fly-in visitors or occasional residents. These accidental expats always seem to think they have figured out China, whereas the real China hands continue to discover and learn and be relatively non-judgmental.

The post is further proof that one can easily and smugly fail to recognise a longish term residence despite the fact he keeps reading it.

Certainly your posts are often well informed, well researched, and interesting to read. IMO, they are clearly informed not from a viewpoint of an old China hand, irrespective of any longish term residence. You may argue that is a good thing when examining China's aggression in the SCS, and if so, that is your view. This thread, as all the threads on Beijing's SCS mischievousness, needs all points of view, and we are fortunate to have that.

[LawrenceChee]

i like that word mischievous .....for the warmongers....there was 2 chartered flights from Beijing / Shanghai each to Manila....wonder what they were doing there ?

More mischievous things or just trade and driving the warmongers nuts soon with the announcements....watch this space in about 6-8 months. Know for a fact they were not there to buy Cebu Mangoes

[Publicus]

One thing I have noted for many years regarding foreigners' views of China is that "old China hands," even in their younger years, whether they be academics, businessmen, lawyers, or others, view China quite differently from the fly-in visitors or occasional residents. These accidental expats always seem to think they have figured out China, whereas the real China hands continue to discover and learn and be relatively non-judgmental.

The post is further proof that one can easily and smugly fail to recognise a longish term residence despite the fact he keeps reading it.

Certainly your posts are often well informed, well researched, and interesting to read. IMO, they are clearly informed not from a viewpoint of an old China hand, irrespective of any longish term residence. You may argue that is a good thing when examining China's aggression in the SCS, and if so, that is your view. This thread, as all the threads on Beijing's SCS mischievousness, needs all points of view, and we are fortunate to have that.

My point stands.

The thread is about more than "Beijing's SCS mischievousness".

It is about CCP sending their PLA Navy out into the SCS as a part of the CCP's determination to discredit, denounce and destroy the UNCLOS. And to demolish or render ineffective Asean in the grouping's resistance to CCP taking control of the resources of the SCS and to establish strategic dominance of the Sea and the region.

Weighing the two factors, i.e., control of resources in the SCS or CCP strategic dominance of the Sea and the region, the assessment of the Pentagon and the US Department of Energy is that the drive for strategic dominance trumps the resource factor.

Half of the Green Team may prefer Hillary Clinton as Potus over Donald Trump due to the great value and importance of the TPP in writing the global rules and in producing the green. However, given the HR Clinton disrespect of the dictatorship in Beijing, even the Green Team might be careful what they wish for.

[LawrenceChee]

One thing I have noted for many years regarding foreigners' views of China is that "old China hands," even in their younger years, whether they be academics, businessmen, lawyers, or others, view China quite differently from the fly-in visitors or occasional residents. These accidental expats always seem to think they have figured out China, whereas the real China hands continue to discover and learn and be relatively non-judgmental.

The post is further proof that one can easily and smugly fail to recognise a longish term residence despite the fact he keeps reading it.

Certainly your posts are often well informed, well researched, and interesting to read. IMO, they are clearly informed not from a viewpoint of an old China hand, irrespective of any longish term residence. You may argue that is a good thing when examining China's aggression in the SCS, and if so, that is your view. This thread, as all the threads on Beijing's SCS mischievousness, needs all points of view, and we are fortunate to have that.

My point stands.

The thread is about more than "Beijing's SCS mischievousness".

It is about CCP sending their PLA Navy out into the SCS as a part of the CCP's determination to discredit, denounce and destroy the UNCLOS. And to demolish or render ineffective Asean in the grouping's resistance to CCP taking control of the resources of the SCS and to establish strategic dominance of the Sea and the region.

Weighing the two factors, i.e., control of resources in the SCS or CCP strategic dominance of the Sea and the region, the assessment of the Pentagon and the US Department of Energy is that the drive for strategic dominance trumps the resource factor.

Half of the Green Team may prefer Hillary Clinton as Potus over Donald Trump due to the great value and importance of the TPP in writing the global rules and in producing the green. However, given the HR Clinton disrespect of the dictatorship in Beijing, even the Green Team might be careful what they wish for.

Both are idiot candidates and frankly I can't see which is worst...a racist moron ...or the one with integrity issues and banging on the family name....

china fear neither because they are gone in 4 years....

Edited July 14, 2016 by LawrenceChee

[LawrenceChee]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-congo-still-ravaged-by-u-s-funded-conflict-and-plunder/5375098

Like I say...the south committees are trying to convince the central guys not to follow the example of USA and go back to trade....and gentle tones....after all we are talking about the language understood by all Asians....$$$$ ...it's in our DNA....

Politics take a backstage to a trade deal...

The USA were the original guys to defy a Hague Court ruling against it for funding rebels in Nicaragua and then rejected 2 UN assemblies ruling...this was a habit as they defied that for the Iraq war too....and then of course no one blames the Africans for wanting to deal with the Chinese as the Chinese were only interested in the resources, pay and go....not like the USA who were the original guys plundering and killing locals....

Like I say ...we are trying our best not to copy the USA superpower in these things....so we ratified and signed the UNCLOS....now to convince Philippines there is a joint deal here.

[Publicus]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-congo-still-ravaged-by-u-s-funded-conflict-and-plunder/5375098

Like I say...the south committees are trying to convince the central guys not to follow the example of USA and go back to trade....and gentle tones....after all we are talking about the language understood by all Asians....$$$$ ...it's in our DNA....

Politics take a backstage to a trade deal...

The USA were the original guys to defy a Hague Court ruling against it for funding rebels in Nicaragua and then rejected 2 UN assemblies ruling...this was a habit as they defied that for the Iraq war too....and then of course no one blames the Africans for wanting to deal with the Chinese as the Chinese were only interested in the resources, pay and go....not like the USA who were the original guys plundering and killing locals....

Like I say ...we are trying our best not to copy the USA superpower in these things....so we ratified and signed the UNCLOS....now to convince Philippines there is a joint deal here.

we ratified and signed the UNCLOS

CCP Dictators in Beijing have become obsessive compulsive to dismantle and destroy the UNCLOS.

CCP signed the convention in 1996 after it had become ratified when in 1994 the required 60 nations signed it led by the USA Potus Bill Clinton who signed it in '94. It is the US Senate that has not ratified it, however, most of the world recognises the US Government observes the treaty in everyday practice and supports the Convention long term.

The US in the Nicaragua case presents an exception to Potus and the US Government's executive branch honoring and observing the treaty. President Reagan in the early negotiations sponsored by the UN issued proclamations to anticipate the treaty conventions. So did his successor, GHW Bush and, as I'd noted, President Bill Clinton signed it. Presidents GW Bush and Barack Obama, respectively, issued orders or actions to further implement and support the Convention.

Now that CCP Klutzes have been blindsided by the Philippines successful filing against CCP aggressions and lawbreaking in the SCS, the UNCLOS is entirely and completely unwelcome in Beijing. CCP have in fact decided to try to demolish the Convention using all their might and strength.

USA has never opposed the UNCLOS from its first negotiations in the mid-1970s to the present, nor has the USA even remotely set out to destroy the UNCLOS as the CCP are doing in their most fierce dictatorship mode. CCP are irrevocably set to destroy the Convention and they will pursue their malicious intents by hook or by crook.

They shall not succeed because the civilised world is for the Convention and it will make every effort to defend and to preserve the legal order the Convention established and provides, to small less powerful countries especially and in particular.

CCP actually and in fact has determined supporters in this malevolent purpose and goal.

[LawrenceChee]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-congo-still-ravaged-by-u-s-funded-conflict-and-plunder/5375098

Like I say...the south committees are trying to convince the central guys not to follow the example of USA and go back to trade....and gentle tones....after all we are talking about the language understood by all Asians....$$$$ ...it's in our DNA....

Politics take a backstage to a trade deal...

The USA were the original guys to defy a Hague Court ruling against it for funding rebels in Nicaragua and then rejected 2 UN assemblies ruling...this was a habit as they defied that for the Iraq war too....and then of course no one blames the Africans for wanting to deal with the Chinese as the Chinese were only interested in the resources, pay and go....not like the USA who were the original guys plundering and killing locals....

Like I say ...we are trying our best not to copy the USA superpower in these things....so we ratified and signed the UNCLOS....now to convince Philippines there is a joint deal here.

we ratified and signed the UNCLOS

CCP Dictators in Beijing have become obsessive compulsive to dismantle and destroy the UNCLOS.

CCP signed the convention in 1996 after it had become ratified when in 1994 the required 60 nations signed it led by the USA Potus Bill Clinton who signed it in '94. It is the US Senate that has not ratified it, however, most of the world recognises the US Government observes the treaty in everyday practice and supports the Convention long term.

The US in the Nicaragua case presents an exception to Potus and the US Government's executive branch honoring and observing the treaty. President Reagan in the early negotiations sponsored by the UN issued proclamations to anticipate the treaty conventions. So did his successor, GHW Bush and, as I'd noted, President Bill Clinton signed it. Presidents GW Bush and Barack Obama, respectively, issued orders or actions to further implement and support the Convention.

Now that CCP Klutzes have been blindsided by the Philippines successful filing against CCP aggressions and lawbreaking in the SCS, the UNCLOS is entirely and completely unwelcome in Beijing. CCP have in fact decided to try to demolish the Convention using all their might and strength.

USA has never opposed the UNCLOS from its first negotiations in the mid-1970s to the present, nor has the USA even remotely set out to destroy the UNCLOS as the CCP are doing in their most fierce dictatorship mode. CCP are irrevocably set to destroy the Convention and they will pursue their malicious intents by hook or by crook.

They shall not succeed because the civilised world is for the Convention and it will make every effort to defend and to preserve the legal order the Convention established and provides, to small less powerful countries especially and in particular.

CCP actually and in fact has determined supporters in this malevolent purpose and goal.

Like I say...when the USA is pinned to a box...they try to wiggle out...facts are facts.

The fact is the Nicaragua sticks out like a sore thumb because it is effectively the same and also the USA has a habit of interfering paying rebels ...in Caribbean, Africa & Middle east....it's a model they they think will work for them because they are too big to be judged.

Same reason why they wont sign the Kyoto treaty and UN Child Slavery Act....

[keemapoot]

@ Lawrence: Both are idiot candidates and frankly I can't see which is worst...a racist moron ...or the one with integrity issues and banging on the family name....

china fear neither because they are gone in 4 years....

I think it's very possible for either Trump or Clinton to be president at this point looking at the latest polls. I think China would fear Trump much more because he is uninformed, hot-tempered, and basically knows nothing about foreign policy, Asian policy, values & cultures or China. So, he is much more dangerous in China's eyes.

Clinton is just a typical neo-con hawkish Democrat. Easy to figure out, and lots of already existing back channels and relationships via Bill etc.. A known quantity which China always, always prefers.

And @ Pub: Half of the Green Team may prefer Hillary Clinton as Potus over Donald Trump due to the great value and importance of the TPP in writing the global rules and in producing the green. However, given the HR Clinton disrespect of the dictatorship in Beijing, even the Green Team might be careful what they wish for.

Clinton does not disrespect the CCP leadership, she is much too wise and experienced for that. She and Bill will be reasoned braintrust, together with the all-star East Asia team at State they assemble.

The biggest problem is that she may not get elected.

Edited July 14, 2016 by keemapoot

[Publicus]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-congo-still-ravaged-by-u-s-funded-conflict-and-plunder/5375098

Like I say...the south committees are trying to convince the central guys not to follow the example of USA and go back to trade....and gentle tones....after all we are talking about the language understood by all Asians....$$$$ ...it's in our DNA....

Politics take a backstage to a trade deal...

The USA were the original guys to defy a Hague Court ruling against it for funding rebels in Nicaragua and then rejected 2 UN assemblies ruling...this was a habit as they defied that for the Iraq war too....and then of course no one blames the Africans for wanting to deal with the Chinese as the Chinese were only interested in the resources, pay and go....not like the USA who were the original guys plundering and killing locals....

Like I say ...we are trying our best not to copy the USA superpower in these things....so we ratified and signed the UNCLOS....now to convince Philippines there is a joint deal here.

we ratified and signed the UNCLOS

CCP Dictators in Beijing have become obsessive compulsive to dismantle and destroy the UNCLOS.

CCP signed the convention in 1996 after it had become ratified when in 1994 the required 60 nations signed it led by the USA Potus Bill Clinton who signed it in '94. It is the US Senate that has not ratified it, however, most of the world recognises the US Government observes the treaty in everyday practice and supports the Convention long term.

The US in the Nicaragua case presents an exception to Potus and the US Government's executive branch honoring and observing the treaty. President Reagan in the early negotiations sponsored by the UN issued proclamations to anticipate the treaty conventions. So did his successor, GHW Bush and, as I'd noted, President Bill Clinton signed it. Presidents GW Bush and Barack Obama, respectively, issued orders or actions to further implement and support the Convention.

Now that CCP Klutzes have been blindsided by the Philippines successful filing against CCP aggressions and lawbreaking in the SCS, the UNCLOS is entirely and completely unwelcome in Beijing. CCP have in fact decided to try to demolish the Convention using all their might and strength.

USA has never opposed the UNCLOS from its first negotiations in the mid-1970s to the present, nor has the USA even remotely set out to destroy the UNCLOS as the CCP are doing in their most fierce dictatorship mode. CCP are irrevocably set to destroy the Convention and they will pursue their malicious intents by hook or by crook.

They shall not succeed because the civilised world is for the Convention and it will make every effort to defend and to preserve the legal order the Convention established and provides, to small less powerful countries especially and in particular.

CCP actually and in fact has determined supporters in this malevolent purpose and goal.

Like I say...when the USA is pinned to a box...they try to wiggle out...facts are facts.

The fact is the Nicaragua sticks out like a sore thumb because it is effectively the same and also the USA has a habit of interfering paying rebels ...in Caribbean, Africa & Middle east....it's a model they they think will work for them because they are too big to be judged.

Same reason why they wont sign the Kyoto treaty and UN Child Slavery Act....

This is 2016 and CCP Dictators in Beijing had already decided to do all they can to destroy and shred the United Nations Convention (Treaty) on the Law of the Sea. There are 126 nations that have signed on to the Convention and are treaty participants.

The Convention came in to effect in 1994 in a large part because President Clinton signed it which gave it the impetus to gain the 60-nation threshold for the Convention to activate.

The little Nicaragua exception is from the early-mid 1980s in the scandal ridden Reagan administration which had become overheated about Marxism in Central America in addition to its already long standing existence in Cuba.

The old and stale case of little Nicaragua pales in contrast to the CCP systematically and maliciously trying to destroy the ten-nation Asean grouping that originated several decades ago to expand to its present number. CCP is systematically trying to destroy UNCLOS not only to the detriment of Asean, but also against other signatory nations of the region, namely Japan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, India and others.

USA has never opposed the UNCLOS and it has never tried to hinder it or to destroy it. The repetitious talk of Nicaragua Nicaragua Nicaragua is petty nonsense that keeps getting posted to no effect given that the CCP has fixed and set itself against the UNCLOS to shred and to dispose of it, unless CCP have their arbitrary way absolutely and completely and to thereby take a strategic dominance of the East Asia-SE Asia-South Asia region from Japan to India to include everything and every nation and body of water in between.

CCP are the neighbor from hell which set out in 2009 to gain a strategic control of the region to use it against the rest of the world. Frankly speaking, for the USA Nicaragua was swatting a fly whereas taking down CCP in the SCS contest will be a legal and lawful field day of events, developments, and an (extended) grand finale that each side knows will determine the future of the entire India-Pacific strategic region.

From 2009 to 2016 is seven years not four, and counting.

[Publicus]

@ Lawrence: Both are idiot candidates and frankly I can't see which is worst...a racist moron ...or the one with integrity issues and banging on the family name....

china fear neither because they are gone in 4 years....

I think it's very possible for either Trump or Clinton to be president at this point looking at the latest polls. I think China would fear Trump much more because he is uninformed, hot-tempered, and basically knows nothing about foreign policy, Asian policy, values & cultures or China. So, he is much more dangerous in China's eyes.

Clinton is just a typical neo-con hawkish Democrat. Easy to figure out, and lots of already existing back channels and relationships via Bill etc.. A known quantity which China always, always prefers.

And @ Pub: Half of the Green Team may prefer Hillary Clinton as Potus over Donald Trump due to the great value and importance of the TPP in writing the global rules and in producing the green. However, given the HR Clinton disrespect of the dictatorship in Beijing, even the Green Team might be careful what they wish for.

Clinton does not disrespect the CCP leadership, she is much too wise and experienced for that. She and Bill will be reasoned braintrust, together with the all-star East Asia team at State they assemble.

The biggest problem is that she may not get elected.

Clinton does not disrespect the CCP leadership, she is much too wise and experienced for that.

HR Clinton does disrespect the CCP. She can however set aside her true feelings to deal with the Dictators on a daily basis. We can in fact be confident that as Potus HR Clinton will pursue the TPP because it both boxes in CCP and it advances the interests of the United States as a whole.

Here from the NYT is a fair sort of summary statement....

Although Clinton is seen as having pushed for stronger Chinese-U.S. ties at the beginning of her tenure in 2009 as President Barack Obama’s secretary of state, and is credited in China with facilitating an annual dialogue between top Chinese and U.S. officials, she also angered Beijing by pressing for “the pivot,” Shi said. This rebalancing of U.S. power toward the Asia-Pacific region, in response to China’s growing assertiveness, was seen as an effort to “contain” a rising China, and it rankled some top officials.

Then, too, “when she conducted U.S. foreign policy on China, Iran, Russia, during the ‘Arab Spring'” in 2011, Shi said, “her language and style of discourse were direct and much more blunt than Obama’s on issues such as human rights and website control.

“The impression she left in China is quite negative. She criticized the Chinese government’s control over information freedom, said it was not compatible with international norms,” he continued.

“Chinese people liked her husband. Bill Clinton was a very nice guy. Obama is also a nice guy. No one says Hillary is a very nice lady.”

http://www.myajc.com/news/news/hillary-clinton-seen-through-chinese-prism/nrwtN/

Hillary Clinton in a 2012 magazine interview said the Chinese people will eventually rise up to dispose of the CCP. This statement by anyone makes the speaker the eternal and fierce enemy of the CCP Dictators in Beijing.

While Hillary Clinton makes the Republicans and their rightwingnoids wretch, she is despised in Beijing and throughout CCP China due to the CCP dispensing her views on CCP and her attitudes toward 'em throughout the country's internet over a long period of time. The fenqing especially detest her.

[Publicus]

I suggest for those who believe that the Chinese are now living without soul, spirit head down to the Grand palace today....the noise there will be enough to convince you that those Chinese certainly have spirt and soul and enough to make you go nuts and want a bit of peace and serenity.

CCP China is a barren and desolate wasteland of culture, to include all forms of art and all forms of individual expression, innovation, creativity.

CCP China is politically one dimensional and socially sterile. The objective of the CCP in its control over education, mass media, censorship of internet and of every other medium of communication or interaction, to include stage and film, is to create dullard dolts.

So congratulations because CCP have achieved every goal and purpose in these respects.

And then some.

The CCP advisory committees in the South of CCP China are an exercise in masturbation. No one in Beijing listens to anyone south of the Yangtze River where politics, governance and 'leadership' has always been in the hands of merchants and other amateur tinkerers. No leader of China has ever emanated from the South while, on the other hand, many rebellions have begun and failed there.

Take for example Wang Yang, formerly party boss and governor of Guangdong province which includes Shenzhen City adjacent to HKG, Guangzhou the capital, Chaoshan out to Shantou with many prosperous places throughout. GD province produces $1 Trillion-plus to CCP GDP and it prospered exceedingly while Wang was party boss-governor. His political liberalism led to foreign leaders of government and corporations often making a side trip to GZ to visit with Wang who is pro-Western, open to the USA and supportive of HKG democracy.

After the hapless Hu Jintao completed his ten years as chairman of the CCP, aka, president of China, Wang was advanced to Beijing to his final career position. He became and is currently 3rd deputy prime minister (vice-premier). That's it. Nothing more. Xi Jinping and his crew put the dynamic and vibrant Wang in charge of agriculture. He's since been almost entirely unavailable to Western and USA government officials or corporate leaders. Wang has effectively disappeared. (You well know who I'm talking about here, LC)

First as the holder of an important regional post, and now as a vice premier, Wang also holds a seat on the Politburo of the Communist Party of China, the country's ruling council.

Wang was seen as one of the leading reformers in China's top leadership, and is often credited with pioneering the Guangdong model of development, characterized by an emphasis on private enterprise, economic growth and a greater role for civil society. He was widely considered to be one of the most strongly 'liberal' members of the Chinese elite, advocating for economic and political reform.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Yang_(politician)

Wang Yang is a nail and the CCP dolts and dullards are the hammer. They pat you boyz in the South on the head and tell to keep having those excellent meetings and suggestions they ignore completely and always.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Publicus

[Scott]

Please stick to the topic of the Beijing military exercises in the SCS. US politics is off topic and will result in suspensions.

[SheungWan]

China is a communist state and national pride has been on the agenda for all communist states.

This makes the North Korean co-ordinated parade flashcards such a great show to watch....minus the pun, it's an amazing display of co-ordination when they flips the pictures and I always wonder how they do it.

As such,. some media will be reporting this as a nationalistic thing to rise up to so that the groups who are ultra hardliners can be pleased and the moderates on the south continue with our WSJ, NYT,. FT, SMCP etc and vpns to access alternative viewpoints and there will be those who are wont care what this ruling means especially for those in the Yunnan mountains areas where they don't see any ocean shorelines at all. If the mountains are moving, they will be worried...some small islands they could not care less.

So while the warmongers make it sound like the entire 1.4 billion Chinese are fed on one drip being brainwashed with the same ideas...the reality on the ground is the diversity of opinions ranges from the crazy to the indifferent.

In about 6 months, this will be news that nothing has happen or changed....that's when it becomes interesting ...not the present moment.

The only remaining communist states in the Stalinist tradition are mainland China and North Korea so that's all there is unless one wants to throw in some of the Indian state governments which are really regional authorities. The nationalism originates from Stalin's useless theory of Socialism In One Country. The latter day nationalism is a prop for the CCP in Mainland China to conflate the interests of the Party and the Nation. A fake pass.

[Publicus]

Doesn't sound like CCP Dictators in Beijing have too much peace in mind after the ruling by the UN Tribunal on the ILOS from the Peace Palace building in The Hague.

It is the case over the past several decades, as referenced in the CCP state media article, that the Congress -- each the House and the Senate -- have been much more aggressive and antagonistic to CCP than the Executive Branch and Wall Street have been. Sen. McCain and a dozen Senators have introduced a resolution officially affirming US support of the Tribunal's ruling and to reaffirm the US-Philippines mutual defense treaty.

South China Sea Dispute: Chinese State Media Calls US, Japan 'Eunuchs'

China should be ready to "counter attack" if American warships hold exercises, Chinese state media said. Branding the US and Japan as "paper tigers" and "eunuchs," China's state media today said that the military should remain ready for "counter attack" if American warships hold exercises near islands claimed by Beijing in the South China Sea to enforce the UN-backed tribunal's verdict.

Chinese PLA Navy destroyer left is refueled by a PLAN oil tanker in the South

China Sea on Thursday, July 14.

"More politicians and congressmen from the House and Senate have also made fiercer remarks, demanding regular challenges to China's excessive maritime claims through naval and air patrols. Japan's stance is precisely the same as that of the US, as if they have discussed their lines," it said.

"An old Chinese saying goes 'the emperor doesn't worry but his eunuch does,' meaning the outsider is more anxious than the player. In this case, Washington and Tokyo are the worrying eunuchs," it said.

"The People's Liberation Army should enhance its military deployment in the waters of the Nansha Islands (Spratly islands) and be fully prepared to counterattack if the US makes further provocations," it said.

http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/south-china-sea-dispute-chinese-state-media-calls-us-japan-eunuchs-1431442

Mr. Air and Space speaks for China at the annual Asia Europe Meeting in Mongolia

Premier Li Keqiang arrives in Ulan Bator, Mongolia, to attend the two-day gathering of about 50 nations, known as Asem, which gets under way ­on Friday. It will be the first major international gathering since the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague sided with the Philippines on Tuesday, dealing a major blow to Beijing’s territorial claims in the South China Sea.

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/1989913/beijing-braces-south-china-sea-challenge-asia-europe

In the South China Sea, Beijing is a big fish in a small pond

A Southeast Asian diplomat said the Association of Southeast

Asian Nations would not issue a statement on the ruling as the

10 nations could not find common ground, with China believed

to have leaned on Cambodia and Laos to prevent a statement.

Russia will fully support China at the Asem today and tomorrow.

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/1989913/beijing-braces-south-china-sea-challenge-asia-europe

CCP are the Asean neighbors from hell determined to demolish Asean and to shred the UNCLOS.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Publicus

[keemapoot]

@ Lawrence: Both are idiot candidates and frankly I can't see which is worst...a racist moron ...or the one with integrity issues and banging on the family name....

china fear neither because they are gone in 4 years....

I think it's very possible for either Trump or Clinton to be president at this point looking at the latest polls. I think China would fear Trump much more because he is uninformed, hot-tempered, and basically knows nothing about foreign policy, Asian policy, values & cultures or China. So, he is much more dangerous in China's eyes.

Clinton is just a typical neo-con hawkish Democrat. Easy to figure out, and lots of already existing back channels and relationships via Bill etc.. A known quantity which China always, always prefers.

And @ Pub: Half of the Green Team may prefer Hillary Clinton as Potus over Donald Trump due to the great value and importance of the TPP in writing the global rules and in producing the green. However, given the HR Clinton disrespect of the dictatorship in Beijing, even the Green Team might be careful what they wish for.

Clinton does not disrespect the CCP leadership, she is much too wise and experienced for that. She and Bill will be reasoned braintrust, together with the all-star East Asia team at State they assemble.

The biggest problem is that she may not get elected.

Clinton does not disrespect the CCP leadership, she is much too wise and experienced for that.

HR Clinton does disrespect the CCP. She can however set aside her true feelings to deal with the Dictators on a daily basis. We can in fact be confident that as Potus HR Clinton will pursue the TPP because it both boxes in CCP and it advances the interests of the United States as a whole.

Here from the NYT is a fair sort of summary statement....

Although Clinton is seen as having pushed for stronger Chinese-U.S. ties at the beginning of her tenure in 2009 as President Barack Obama’s secretary of state, and is credited in China with facilitating an annual dialogue between top Chinese and U.S. officials, she also angered Beijing by pressing for “the pivot,” Shi said. This rebalancing of U.S. power toward the Asia-Pacific region, in response to China’s growing assertiveness, was seen as an effort to “contain” a rising China, and it rankled some top officials.

Then, too, “when she conducted U.S. foreign policy on China, Iran, Russia, during the ‘Arab Spring'” in 2011, Shi said, “her language and style of discourse were direct and much more blunt than Obama’s on issues such as human rights and website control.

“The impression she left in China is quite negative. She criticized the Chinese government’s control over information freedom, said it was not compatible with international norms,” he continued.

“Chinese people liked her husband. Bill Clinton was a very nice guy. Obama is also a nice guy. No one says Hillary is a very nice lady.”

http://www.myajc.com/news/news/hillary-clinton-seen-through-chinese-prism/nrwtN/

Hillary Clinton in a 2012 magazine interview said the Chinese people will eventually rise up to dispose of the CCP. This statement by anyone makes the speaker the eternal and fierce enemy of the CCP Dictators in Beijing.

While Hillary Clinton makes the Republicans and their rightwingnoids wretch, she is despised in Beijing and throughout CCP China due to the CCP dispensing her views on CCP and her attitudes toward 'em throughout the country's internet over a long period of time. The fenqing especially detest her.

I note that you conveniently left out perhaps the most important and relevant quote in that article, which I also read in the NY Times, and which confirms my view, not yours :

Still, China’s leaders would rather see Clinton in the White House than the “volatile” Trump, said Shi Yinhong, a professor of international relations at Renmin University in Beijing and an adviser to the State Council, China’s Cabinet.

“Trump is volatile, and the worst situation is instability,” Shi said in an interview.

Unless, of course you believe that interview was staged for American consumption by the good professor and State Council Adviser....

[Publicus]

@ Lawrence: Both are idiot candidates and frankly I can't see which is worst...a racist moron ...or the one with integrity issues and banging on the family name....

china fear neither because they are gone in 4 years....

I think it's very possible for either Trump or Clinton to be president at this point looking at the latest polls. I think China would fear Trump much more because he is uninformed, hot-tempered, and basically knows nothing about foreign policy, Asian policy, values & cultures or China. So, he is much more dangerous in China's eyes.

Clinton is just a typical neo-con hawkish Democrat. Easy to figure out, and lots of already existing back channels and relationships via Bill etc.. A known quantity which China always, always prefers.

And @ Pub: Half of the Green Team may prefer Hillary Clinton as Potus over Donald Trump due to the great value and importance of the TPP in writing the global rules and in producing the green. However, given the HR Clinton disrespect of the dictatorship in Beijing, even the Green Team might be careful what they wish for.

Clinton does not disrespect the CCP leadership, she is much too wise and experienced for that. She and Bill will be reasoned braintrust, together with the all-star East Asia team at State they assemble.

The biggest problem is that she may not get elected.

Clinton does not disrespect the CCP leadership, she is much too wise and experienced for that.

HR Clinton does disrespect the CCP. She can however set aside her true feelings to deal with the Dictators on a daily basis. We can in fact be confident that as Potus HR Clinton will pursue the TPP because it both boxes in CCP and it advances the interests of the United States as a whole.

Here from the NYT is a fair sort of summary statement....

Although Clinton is seen as having pushed for stronger Chinese-U.S. ties at the beginning of her tenure in 2009 as President Barack Obama’s secretary of state, and is credited in China with facilitating an annual dialogue between top Chinese and U.S. officials, she also angered Beijing by pressing for “the pivot,” Shi said. This rebalancing of U.S. power toward the Asia-Pacific region, in response to China’s growing assertiveness, was seen as an effort to “contain” a rising China, and it rankled some top officials.

Then, too, “when she conducted U.S. foreign policy on China, Iran, Russia, during the ‘Arab Spring'” in 2011, Shi said, “her language and style of discourse were direct and much more blunt than Obama’s on issues such as human rights and website control.

“The impression she left in China is quite negative. She criticized the Chinese government’s control over information freedom, said it was not compatible with international norms,” he continued.

“Chinese people liked her husband. Bill Clinton was a very nice guy. Obama is also a nice guy. No one says Hillary is a very nice lady.”

http://www.myajc.com/news/news/hillary-clinton-seen-through-chinese-prism/nrwtN/

Hillary Clinton in a 2012 magazine interview said the Chinese people will eventually rise up to dispose of the CCP. This statement by anyone makes the speaker the eternal and fierce enemy of the CCP Dictators in Beijing.

While Hillary Clinton makes the Republicans and their rightwingnoids wretch, she is despised in Beijing and throughout CCP China due to the CCP dispensing her views on CCP and her attitudes toward 'em throughout the country's internet over a long period of time. The fenqing especially detest her.

I note that you conveniently left out perhaps the most important and relevant quote in that article, which I also read in the NY Times, and which confirms my view, not yours :

Still, China’s leaders would rather see Clinton in the White House than the “volatile” Trump, said Shi Yinhong, a professor of international relations at Renmin University in Beijing and an adviser to the State Council, China’s Cabinet.

“Trump is volatile, and the worst situation is instability,” Shi said in an interview.

Unless, of course you believe that interview was staged for American consumption by the good professor and State Council Adviser....

This poster does of course read an entire article from which he quotes, meaning your view and mine are not disparate or different. That is, my post and your post point out the same thing, i.e., CCP are schizoid about Hillary Clinton (in this newest instance, vis-a-vis Donald Trump).

CCP despises HR Clinton and has spread its detestation throughout the general population via internet, television news and programming, and in party meetings of its 85 million members; in schools etc etc. Yet HRC is familiar to the CCP as they are accustomed to working with or against her over a long term -- dating back to 1994 when HRC gave her women's lib speech in Beijing that fired up a fierce CCP criticism. Still however, CCP definitely would much prefer to deal with HRC than Donald The Ignoramus Trump.

One can only quote so much from a news or media article as per TVF Rules so one has to select suitably as your post demonstrates thx.

You and I have no significant difference in the matter of CCP-HRC. CCP does not want TPP but they will have to join it in the second or third round as you and I among others know is to the great advantage of the USA and its allies and partner states throughout the entire East Asia region...not to mention to the great benefit of the Green Team.

[Publicus]

Here is the story of the emperor in a business suit of a new, young and very nervous Chinese dynasty, this one being called the CCP Dynasty. The average survival of a Chinese dynasty is between 100 to 300 years and this new and rookie dynasty is but 67 years young.

The outcome of this contest over the SCS will determine the 21st century future of the India-Asia-Pacific Strategic Region. The United States, its allies and partners of the region fully well know the fact of it. This is a unique dynasty however as the emperor himself is a eunuch.

Xi Jinping: China’s emperor at the crossroads

The Australian

Perhaps the central question to emerge out of the Permanent Court of Arbitration’s ruling on the South China Sea, and the reaction in Beijing, is just what kind of emperor Xi Jinping is going to turn out to be?

What are his ultimate ambitions?

How much risk is he prepared to take?

The answer to those questions may tell us a great deal about whether we are to live in an era of peace.

Since Xi Jinping took office in 2012, however, Beijing has been on a race to build artificial islands around the rocks it claims, fortifying these and putting military facilities on them. It has muscled out fishing and other vessels from other nations which have traditionally controlled some of these tiny rocks

.

The PCOA ruling was devastating for Beijing.

It will formally ignore the ruling, but it is a grievous blow to Beijing’s reputation.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/greg-sheridan/xi-jinping-chinas-emperor-at-the-crossroads/news-story/9f2d5d7b34a0d6b746e63ff49d0057ff

How grievous has yet to become as apparent and as manifest as it necessarily must.