Getting a Work Permit Off a Non-O Visa?

[TravelTeach]

Hi All,

My potential new employers are suggesting a course of action that's new to me.

I've accepted a job at a school which is also a charity. It's got a stellar reputation from what I've seen (online). I've got professional answers about the position and had a good Skype interview with the director where I also saw the kids in the background along with the school. We've exchanged multiple emails about many details. In short, I trust them as much as one can.

I'm in Laos now just on vacation. They school has asked me to get an O visa to come in on, and then get a work permit once I'm in Thailand. They said to get the O visa as it's for volunteer work and the school has many volunteers. My position however will be paid. The money has all been agreed on.

I looked through the information on the Vientiane embassy site and see I'll need some paperwork from the school to accomplish this. I wrote to the school and am waiting to hear back from them -- it's just been a few hours. Seems to me like they'd need to mail it to me here somehow, then I take it in.

I've worked in Thailand in the past. Came in on a visitor's visa, got a job, got the paperwork, left the country to get the Non-B and came back.

So I suppose my questions are:

a) is the school doing this to be above board work-wise? As in, I can work while the visa is being processed?

is there really any point to do this and should I just go in on a tourist visa, then fly out again?

c) is there anything suspicious about this at all? Like maybe they want to pay me under the table and use the O visa as a cover?

d) assuming it's all above board, is there a difference between getting a single or multiple O visa? I read in some of the forums here that Vientiane won't grant the multiple, but I will need to leave Thailand in October for a family issue.

Thanks for the help!

[elviajero]

• Unless you are the spouse or parent of a Thai you cannot get a work permit with a non immigrant 'O' visa entry. You need a non 'B' visa.

Visas do not give permission to work. You cannot work until you have been granted a work permit.

If they want you to work before a work permit is granted then they are asking you to work illegally.

You only need a single entry visa. It will grant you 90 days on entry. During the last 30 (maybe 45) days you go to immigration and apply for a 1 year extension of stay based on your work permit.

Anytime you want to leave/return you need to buy a re-entry permit form your local immigration office or at the airport. Single entry, 1,000 baht; Multiple entry, 3,800 baht. On re-entry the IO stamps you back in for the remainder of your extension of stay.

At the end of each year you can apply for a further 1 year extension of stay.

[TravelTeach]

• If they want you to work before a work permit is granted then they are asking you to work illegally.

But would work that was volunteer be illegal based on the O visa? They might be trying to do something like have me "volunteer work" for the first month which would be legal on the O visa, then double pay me on the second month when the work permit kicks in.

[elviajero]

• If they want you to work before a work permit is granted then they are asking you to work illegally.

But would work that was volunteer be illegal based on the O visa? They might be trying to do something like have me "volunteer work" for the first month which would be legal on the O visa, then double pay me on the second month when the work permit kicks in.

You cannot work regardless of the visa you hold. The permission to work comes from the work permit issued by the Department of Labour, so without it you cannot work.

Unpaid or voluntary work for a school requires a work permit too. Many schools employ foreigners illegally either short or long term.

WORKING OF ALIEN ACT, B.E. 2551 (2008)

Section 5. In this Act:

“Work” means engaging in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits;

Section 9. No alien shall engage in any work other than the works under section 7 and the permit shall be granted by the registrar, except for the alien who enters into the Kingdom temporarily under the law on immigration so as to engage in necessary and urgent work for a period of not exceeding fifteen days and that alien may engage in that work after giving written notification to the registrar.

In the issuance of the permit, the registrar may impose any conditions to be complied with by the alien.

The permit, the application for and the issuance of the permit and the giving of notification under paragraph one shall be in accordance with the form and procedure as prescribed by the Ministerial Regulation.

The Director-General may lay down the guideline for prescribing of the conditions under paragraph two to be complied with by the registrar.

Section 51. An alien who engages in work without having the permit shall be liable to imprisonment for a term of not exceeding five years or to a fine from two thousand Baht to one hundred thousand Baht or to both.

In the case where the accused under paragraph one wilfully departs the Kingdom within the period specified by the inquiry official, but not more than thirty days, the inquiry official may settle the case and causes that alien to depart the Kingdom.

[TravelTeach]

Ahhhh I see. So do many schools then illegally get foreigners to start working as their paperwork is being processed, knowing that eventually it will be processed and hoping nobody comes to investigate in the meantime?

[elviajero]

Ahhhh I see. So do many schools then illegally get foreigners to start working as their paperwork is being processed, knowing that eventually it will be processed and hoping nobody comes to investigate in the meantime?

Yep.

[TravelTeach]

Thanks very much for the info Elviajero. All has been revealed.

[muzmurray]

• Unless you are the spouse or parent of a Thai you cannot get a work permit with a non immigrant 'O' visa entry. You need a non 'B' visa.
• Visas do not give permission to work. You cannot work until you have been granted a work permit.
• If they want you to work before a work permit is granted then they are asking you to work illegally.
• You only need a single entry visa. It will grant you 90 days on entry. During the last 30 (maybe 45) days you go to immigration and apply for a 1 year extension of stay based on your work permit.
• Anytime you want to leave/return you need to buy a re-entry permit form your local immigration office or at the airport. Single entry, 1,000 baht; Multiple entry, 3,800 baht. On re-entry the IO stamps you back in for the remainder of your extension of stay.
• At the end of each year you can apply for a further 1 year extension of stay.

Incorrect.

NON-IMMIGRANT "O" VOLUNTEER

1. REQUIREMENT

This Type of visa is for a person who wish to work as a volunteer (paid and non paid) with an established and registered organization in Thailand.

2. DOCUMENTS REQUIRED

- Passport or travel document with validity not less than 6 months after the arrival date and MUST not be damage.

- Visa application form completely filled out. (click here to download)

- Two photographs, size 4 x 6 cm. It MUST not be taken more than 6 months and MUST not be your homemade photographs

- Letter from an organization in Thailand indicating position, qualification, responsibilities and period of stay in Thailand

- Copy of Registration documents of the organization

- Employment Contract

[muzmurray]

Thanks very much for the info Elviajero. All has been revealed.

Unfortunately not, Elviajero gave you duff info about the Non-O and work permit.

[TravelTeach]

Interesting Muzmurray. Those aren't the same requirements as the one's on the Vientiane embassy website. I guess I'll find out tomorrow morning when I go there!

[elviajero]

Thanks very much for the info Elviajero. All has been revealed.

Unfortunately not, Elviajero gave you duff info about the Non-O and work permit.

Interesting Muzmurray. Those aren't the same requirements as the one's on the Vientiane embassy website. I guess I'll find out tomorrow morning when I go there!

To be clear, everything written about working without a work permit is correct.

I am aware of the rules regarding non 'O'/voluntary work BUT I was not aware that you can be paid for voluntary work. It would appear that this school is getting around the need for a non 'B' by calling your work voluntary.

[muzmurray]

Thanks very much for the info Elviajero. All has been revealed.

Unfortunately not, Elviajero gave you duff info about the Non-O and work permit.

Interesting Muzmurray. Those aren't the same requirements as the one's on the Vientiane embassy website. I guess I'll find out tomorrow morning when I go there!

To be clear, everything written about working without a work permit is correct.

I am aware of the rules regarding non 'O'/voluntary work BUT I was not aware that you can be paid for voluntary work. It would appear that this school is getting around the need for a non 'B' by calling your work voluntary.

Sorry, I should have been clearer, yes, everything about the work permits was correct.

"his Type of visa is for a person who wish to work as a volunteer (paid and non paid) with an established and registered organization in Thailand."

The school is asking the OP to get exactly the correct visa, whilst a Non-B would facilitate a WP, as he will be working for a registered charity, (receiving a stipend), the Non-O is the right way to go if possible.

[TravelTeach]

Right, well Muzmurray I don't know where you got your info, but you were correct about some of the documents needed that weren't mentioned on the website. Fortunately I brought along everything just in case, and they requested everything. That could have been quite frustrating as I checked the Vientiane consulate site and there was nothing about those documents. Coincidentally the girl in front of me was also getting a O-volunteer visa (working with animals) and didn't have half of what I had, and they turned her right away. So to be clear, as of July 14th, 2016 when I was there, they asked me for:

1. My passport.

2. Completed visa form, available there or downloadable from the website.

3. Two passport sized pictures (3.5cm X 4.5 cm).

4. A recommendation letter addressed to the Embassy, containing my proposed work, my name, my date of birth, and my passport number.

5. A certified copy of the endorser's ID. The endorser is the charity's representative. Certified means signed and dated (this was scanned and emailed and was accepted). This is important to have done as the girl in front of me had the copy of the ID but it wasn't signed and dated, and the consular staff made it clear that was unacceptable.

6. A copy of the registration certificate of the employer/foundation/organization.

7. A copy of the first page (ID page) of my passport.

8. A copy of my Lao visa.

9. A copy of the stamp in my passport that shows when I entered Laos (not on the visa).

10. A copy of the contract (didn't have to be signed or dated).

11. 2000 baht for single entry, 5000 for multiple entry (payable on visa pickup).

So thanks everyone for your help. Got there at 8:00 am and and left at 9:30 am with a smile and "come back tomorrow to get your visa at 1:30". But if I hadn't asked the people on this board, did a little extra digging, and asked around while at the consulate then it would have been extremely frustrating. There was so much disorganization.

[TravelTeach]

And just to close this, visa has been acquired with the stamp on the visa saying "The applicant is advised to apply for work permit which should be presented to authorities next time."

Thanks all for the help!