Staying in Thailand or moving back to UK

[Rimbuman]

So you seem to think a visa is easy for your wife,well mate you have to earn at least about 22,000 pounds for 6 months first and your wife has to stay here,and that is before you can even think about applying for a visa,if you were single it would have been 18.500 pound.

She can throw her passport away and act like she's a Syrian refugee and you'll have a furnished house and money for free.

[Deepinthailand]

Just do what people from other countries do. Get a tourist visa and then she can just disappear in UK easy to get a fake NI number hey presto stay as long as you like. Get caught no problem tell them you've lost your passport. Can't ship you out without it given bail whilst they sort it out guess what skip bail away you go again. Please don't say it doesn't happen it does and thousands do it

Edited July 18, 2016 by Deepinthailand

[RedQualia]

Sounds as if your friend just wants to move back to the UK and is trying to rationalizing that move. There really isn't anywhere near enough info about him here to understand his actual position, so any advice or comments in this thread will necessarily be little more than so much arm waving. That said, let me wave my arms a bit...

Firstly, the UK that existed 20 or even ten or five years ago isn't really there anymore. It will continue to change and may become better for a few, worse for many. "Better for many" somehow seems unlikely... A week or two ago, England was part of the EU. Now? Similarly for the states... All the good jobs and a great deal of the money have been exported from the states. To where? I understand that the military is still hiring, however.

Are the schools in the UK better than those in Thailand? That would depend on what your friend is after. All schools indoctrinate to a certain degree. Does he want UK indoctrination? Tory indoctrination? US Christian fundamentalist patriot Davy Crockett indoctrination? Or indoctrination in the (current) Thai ways of thinking and being? Not only will there be governmental indoctrination (God Save the Queen, all our former colonies are grateful to us, etc.), but wealthy contributors to this or that college or university will also want their say in the education of the nation's children, whether they choose to promote fundamentalist protestantism, or perhaps, in terms of the Koch brothers in the states, libertarianism. Far from mutually exclusive, there are increasing numbers of "university educated" Americans who think that Gawd made everything in seven days and that evolution is a lie, that Ayn Rand was some kind of great thinker, that everyone (including the wealthy, coincidentally) should be able to keep all they can get without taxation, that Donald Trump is great, and that this is the way Gawd intended things to be. So... Exactly what kind of indoctrination does your friend want for his children? Because they'll get it. So what's on offer for them in the UK? In Thailand?

Otherwise, what is your friend's social class? How involved will he be with the children's studies? If he's working class and heading back to enroll the kids in public schools, it's unlikely that the schools will really be any better, and in fact they could be worse. What does he expect the children to actually study 15 years from now? To what end? A good many western colleges and universities are nothing more than trade schools these days. How would such be an improvement over Thai schools? If the children are just going to major in business, to be MBA bean counters, for example, there would seem to be little reason to expect them to better be able to count beans or negotiate swindles more successfully if taught somewhere other than Thailand. Doctors or nurses? There are good Thai schools for such things. Law? What kind? Business? Immigration? Civil rights? Personal injury? Why would it be better to study whatever specific thing he believes the children will pursue, back in the UK as opposed to almost anywhere else? Should he maybe move to Japan so he can get the one year old's nose to the grindstone straight away? Because one can never start too soon?

I chose not to take my Thai children back to the states for education. I wasn't sure how easily they could make the cultural transition, but then if they did that successfully, what would be the outcome? I'm not at all sure that converting them into additional little Christian fundamentalist libertarian Davy Crockett Americans would be better than leaving them as the good Thai people they are. More likely, I think that conversion would be something a bit more heartbreaking. To me, anyway. Similarly, I'm not at all sure that your friend's children converted into little Brits would be any sort of real improvement over leaving them here to grow into good Thai people, and educating them as necessary to have the best chances of success here. Educated properly, they could attend Chulalongkorn or ABAC, I'm sure. Or perhaps attend university in Hong Kong or Norway or wherever.

Maybe your friend should move to Issan and get his kids some water buffalo and chickens. I personally tend to think that would be a pretty good preschool program, and better than almost all such back in The World. But then I have no way of knowing what it is that your friend might think he wants for his children.

And again, it really sounds as if your friend simply wants to go back home. In which case, any reasons he can think of to rationalize that choice are going to be good enough.

Edited July 18, 2016 by RedQualia

[DMC1]

Compared to Canada's public education, I find the private international schools far superior here but I guess it depends which school. In Canada public schools are suffering severe cut backs, closures and classes are over crowded. Teachers are under paid and often strike which ruins any plans for summer holidays. The cost of private schools in Thailand is expensive but not as expensive as in Singapore or Malaysia. Life in Thailand is good with warm weather and cheap cost of living. Canada is cold and wet most of the time and I guess UK is the same. My 2 highest expenses in Thailand are tuition fees and medical insurance. In Canada my highest expense would be tax and food. That said, I'll still be sending my child to a University in Canada, US or UK.

I don't think you can just 'send' your child to university in the UK without living there for a few years previously. My British friend with his half Thai daughter tried to go this route but was informed he'd have to be living back in the UK for a few years beforehand. Anyone else confirm this?

[White Christmas13]

Definitely leave as the future here is very, very uncertain. Whether the UK is the right place is obviously questionable also after Brexit. Really hard to know where to live now. New Zealand anyone?

And maybe Australia ?

[Deepinthailand]

Turkeys a good bet very cheap brilliant schooling.

[ableguy]

The changes that came into force on 9 July 2012 stipulate that the British spouse has to earn an annual income of £18,600 (and show that he/she has been earning that amount for at least six months) in order to sponsor his/her non-EEA spouse for a visa. The foreign spouses income is not taken into account. The financial threshold increases if they have children also in need of sponsorship.

Out of interest (but only modest interest at present as I am happy in Isaan with my 6 yo being schooled in a paid for English programme* in a part public/part private junior school), does investment and pension income count as "earning" for UK visa/settlement purposes? For many purposes, particularly taxation "earned income" is a defined term that implies employment.

* 50/50 English Thai and about ThB 50,000 pa with decent/experienced Philippino teachers. I was surprised to find that capability in a $hitkicker amphur town in rural Isaan

imagine how surprised i was when we found Marie catholic school in nang rong burri ram. 22000thb/year for half thai half foreign. extra 2000/year for afterschool classes. school starts 730am finishes 430pm.

We live in Korat and are raising my gfs niece, St Marie catholic school , which is a super school around fifty thousand baht per annum inc extra tuitition , she is a bright kid works hard and will go places in life ( her wish is to be a teacher ) I could not fault this school, ok well maybe she works a little too hard for an eleven year old but her time off we ensure is quality time .

[Familyonthemove]

We had a similar descision to make several years ago. I decided that a private international school in Bangkok was good for up to age 11, but as my daughter wanted to eventually go to a UK university, we switched to UK private school when she was 11.

Still not certain if it was the right descision, as kids in UK schools seem to be more aggressive and mal-adjusted than kids in a Thai international school, but as so many ex-pat parents decide to shift their kids to a school back home around age 11 or 12, the high schools in Thailand tend to become more Thai and less international, for better or worse.

But if I was comparing State Schools in Thailand and UK, then I think UK may be a better bet, but post Brexit, who knows?

PS Why do questions like this always seem to be posted by 'friends' of the person having to make a tough descision? Are there no first person posters on TV?

[ozyjon]

He thinks the children could have a much better child hood back in the uk

Yes, my parents took me and my sister to Australia as babies, after 35

years we came back to our birth place to meet our family in Europe, we

couldn't wait to go home, when we got home to Sydney, we thanked our

mum for making the sacrifice to go to a foreign country and start a new

life, had we stayed in Europe i don't know where i'd be, i'm so happy

about that, also being an English speaking country, my language is my

passport to the world. Think about your children's future.

[williamgeorgeallen]

We had a similar descision to make several years ago. I decided that a private international school in Bangkok was good for up to age 11, but as my daughter wanted to eventually go to a UK university, we switched to UK private school when she was 11.

Still not certain if it was the right descision, as kids in UK schools seem to be more aggressive and mal-adjusted than kids in a Thai international school, but as so many ex-pat parents decide to shift their kids to a school back home around age 11 or 12, the high schools in Thailand tend to become more Thai and less international, for better or worse.

But if I was comparing State Schools in Thailand and UK, then I think UK may be a better bet, but post Brexit, who knows?

PS Why do questions like this always seem to be posted by 'friends' of the person having to make a tough descision? Are there no first person posters on TV?

interesting point about the international schools becoming more thai as foreign kids get sent home. i will move back home before my eldest turns 10.

a lot of people here post saying the advice is for their friends as some members rather than give advice or share their experiences just berate the person looking for advice. this has happened to me on several occasions.

[loogkreung]

Compared to Canada's public education, I find the private international schools far superior here but I guess it depends which school. In Canada public schools are suffering severe cut backs, closures and classes are over crowded. Teachers are under paid and often strike which ruins any plans for summer holidays. The cost of private schools in Thailand is expensive but not as expensive as in Singapore or Malaysia. Life in Thailand is good with warm weather and cheap cost of living. Canada is cold and wet most of the time and I guess UK is the same. My 2 highest expenses in Thailand are tuition fees and medical insurance. In Canada my highest expense would be tax and food. That said, I'll still be sending my child to a University in Canada, US or UK.

I don't think you can just 'send' your child to university in the UK without living there for a few years previously. My British friend with his half Thai daughter tried to go this route but was informed he'd have to be living back in the UK for a few years beforehand. Anyone else confirm this?

I think you have to be in the UK for 5 years, otherwise your child is treated as an international student and will have to pay international fees.

[starky]

Sounds as if your friend just wants to move back to the UK and is trying to rationalizing that move. There really isn't anywhere near enough info about him here to understand his actual position, so any advice or comments in this thread will necessarily be little more than so much arm waving. That said, let me wave my arms a bit...

Firstly, the UK that existed 20 or even ten or five years ago isn't really there anymore. It will continue to change and may become better for a few, worse for many. "Better for many" somehow seems unlikely... A week or two ago, England was part of the EU. Now? Similarly for the states... All the good jobs and a great deal of the money have been exported from the states. To where? I understand that the military is still hiring, however.

Are the schools in the UK better than those in Thailand? That would depend on what your friend is after. All schools indoctrinate to a certain degree. Does he want UK indoctrination? Tory indoctrination? US Christian fundamentalist patriot Davy Crockett indoctrination? Or indoctrination in the (current) Thai ways of thinking and being? Not only will there be governmental indoctrination (God Save the Queen, all our former colonies are grateful to us, etc.), but wealthy contributors to this or that college or university will also want their say in the education of the nation's children, whether they choose to promote fundamentalist protestantism, or perhaps, in terms of the Koch brothers in the states, libertarianism. Far from mutually exclusive, there are increasing numbers of "university educated" Americans who think that Gawd made everything in seven days and that evolution is a lie, that Ayn Rand was some kind of great thinker, that everyone (including the wealthy, coincidentally) should be able to keep all they can get without taxation, that Donald Trump is great, and that this is the way Gawd intended things to be. So... Exactly what kind of indoctrination does your friend want for his children? Because they'll get it. So what's on offer for them in the UK? In Thailand?

Otherwise, what is your friend's social class? How involved will he be with the children's studies? If he's working class and heading back to enroll the kids in public schools, it's unlikely that the schools will really be any better, and in fact they could be worse. What does he expect the children to actually study 15 years from now? To what end? A good many western colleges and universities are nothing more than trade schools these days. How would such be an improvement over Thai schools? If the children are just going to major in business, to be MBA bean counters, for example, there would seem to be little reason to expect them to better be able to count beans or negotiate swindles more successfully if taught somewhere other than Thailand. Doctors or nurses? There are good Thai schools for such things. Law? What kind? Business? Immigration? Civil rights? Personal injury? Why would it be better to study whatever specific thing he believes the children will pursue, back in the UK as opposed to almost anywhere else? Should he maybe move to Japan so he can get the one year old's nose to the grindstone straight away? Because one can never start too soon?

I chose not to take my Thai children back to the states for education. I wasn't sure how easily they could make the cultural transition, but then if they did that successfully, what would be the outcome? I'm not at all sure that converting them into additional little Christian fundamentalist libertarian Davy Crockett Americans would be better than leaving them as the good Thai people they are. More likely, I think that conversion would be something a bit more heartbreaking. To me, anyway. Similarly, I'm not at all sure that your friend's children converted into little Brits would be any sort of real improvement over leaving them here to grow into good Thai people, and educating them as necessary to have the best chances of success here. Educated properly, they could attend Chulalongkorn or ABAC, I'm sure. Or perhaps attend university in Hong Kong or Norway or wherever.

Maybe your friend should move to Issan and get his kids some water buffalo and chickens. I personally tend to think that would be a pretty good preschool program, and better than almost all such back in The World. But then I have no way of knowing what it is that your friend might think he wants for his children.

And again, it really sounds as if your friend simply wants to go back home. In which case, any reasons he can think of to rationalize that choice are going to be good enough.

Terrific post, brilliantly said.

[Johnniey]

I let my kids decide themselves when they were about 16+ . 2 decided to go abroad for tertiary education. 2 went on exchange programs for 1 year but preferred Thailand. I prefer Thailand and I am the boss.

[SheungWan]

On 7/24/2016 at 11:50 PM, starky said:

Terrific post, brilliantly said.

Edited August 21, 2017 by SheungWan

[starky]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

Thanks for chiming in with that witty reparte, what? 5 weeks after the op? Chocalate mousse you are. Do you have a comment or are emojis the extent of your vocabulary?

[wildewillie89]

Just need to be smart about it. Use Thai schools, even the 'good' private ones as more of a socialisation aspect of growing up. Then need to tutor the fundamentals either yourself or get a teacher you trust. But need to do it in a way where the kid doesn't become bored/form a negative stigma to learning (so not the Thai way lol). 

My father, mother and two sisters are all teachers back in Australia so I will periodically test my children when they reach the relevant age to make sure they are up to scratch with Australian standards. Also do frequent Skype sessions, more of a catch up/lesson type thing. Thai schools like to give copious amounts of useless homework, so rather than doing that, I will inform the school that I will incorporate other methods. As lets be honest, homework is not strictly handed in/marked anyway so no loss in terms of education or social issues that may arise. 

Mrs job gets half price off private education here, so we can use the money to spend on tutoring on the subjects we struggle with. Maths and science mostly. Mrs can teach Thai (scored 2nd highest Thai score in M6) and science to a point (Public Health official), and I can focus on English, and maths to a point. Obviously professional Thai tutors are usually also regular teachers so can work closer to the curriculum with those subjects. 

 

Kids will get a choice in high school if they want to stay in Thai or spend a few years with their grandparents in Melbourne. Other option is they go and live with the Mrs sister who is a science teacher in a bigger city, and go to a school attached to the university and come home on the weekends (90 minutes away). Know quite a few students who attend such schools who are of excellent standards. Many options if you look hard enough that will not break your bank. Even my cousins live in my city and with extra tutoring all became government officials, or got into law or medical/vet/nursing courses at universities. 

No doubting a lot of extra work has to go into it, but depends what someone's life will be like back in the home country. Can either the man or the wife find work easily? Visa costs? Housing situation? Many variables to take into account. For me, having to buy a 20 million baht house isn't really worth it right now if I am smart about how I do it all. Depending on where the kids want to work, if it is Thai I want them to have land and a house ready to go so they don't have to live through a quarter life crisis. If Australia, then they have the support to get them started also. 

Edited August 22, 2017 by wildewillie89

[KunMatt]

A good friend was chatting over dinner that he was thinking of going back home, he is married and has 2 children aged 1 and 5 years old, he lives in Hua Hin and says the prices are going up at a good pace. The main reason I think are the schools even private ones are not great here.
He thinks the children could have a much better child hood back in the uk.
The visa for his wife would be easy enough.
Just wanted other people's thoughts on what's better for a young family.
Another note he has rental properties in the UK which brings well enough to live here.
Thanks

I've lived and worked in Asia since 2000. I moved to Thailand in 2009 and met my missus. Once we found out we were pregnant with our first child I built nice big house that I expected us to live in for the next 20 years in Ubon. We now have 2 kids.

We lasted about 2 years in Ubon then moved to Bangkok. After 18 months in Bangkok we then moved back to the UK 2 years ago, just before the eldest started 1st school. It was a tough call to leave because of the family in Thailand but I could see how things were here for him and how things were for me growing up in the UK, and I wanted him to have a childhood as good as I had which is impossible in Thailand. So after much consideration about a huge life decision that would affect families in both countries so decided to move us all back. I said at the time that Thailand is for holidays and the UK is for living in.

My kids have been amazing in the UK. Their characters, their schools, their friends and social circles, the clubs they go to outside school, every birthday/Xmas/Halloween etc, everything is so much better in the UK compared to Thailand. My eldest is in an advanced maths class which only 6 kids from his year of 60 are in. He's also one of the top players in our local football team and winning tournaments every weekend.

During our last year in Bangkok my eldest went to an expensive international school for the whole of K1 year. After one year he didn't really have any friends and he did nothing outside school. Comparing that to my youngest's first year at pre-school where she has a lot of close friends she sees outside of school, she has a couple of clubs she goes to every week, she's gets invited to parties and so on, the UK has worked out much better for them both in a short time.

As it happens we're now back in Thailand for the summer holidays and staying in Bangkok and Ubon. This is our first time back since we left 2 years ago. Seeing everything here again after getting used to the UK, I was definitely right to move to the UK.

I honestly don't see what people mean when they say it's better for kids to be in Thailand. I don't see any traits in Thai kids that my kids either don't have or that I want them to have. I don't see any facilities here that are better than the UK. Schools, hospitals, doctors, play areas, shops, everything is miles better in the UK.

I think you'll find that the main reason expats parents stay in Thailand is because it's best for the parent"s lifestyle and/or it's cheaper.

[DMC1]

^ In my experience I have yet to meet any parents who regretted schooling their kids back in the 'West' and plenty that wished they had gone back. You can always make the choice to come back to Thailand later on in life.

[kunfish]

This is a very late response, but anyway, my wife feels her daughter is much better off outside of Thailand. She's just finished high school and is going to enter college. Far more opportunity and a good foundation in the USA. The daughter may go back to Thailand, but at least she's planning to have citizenship and a US university education under her belt, along with the English language aspect taken care of. In general, her mother feels Thailand can not be that great for young people. Safety, education, the laid-back aspect of the culture. Whatever the case, the wife and daughter are flourishing in their new country and everyone's pretty happy.

[kunfish]

On 8/24/2017 at 5:58 AM, DMC1 said:

^ In my experience I have yet to meet any parents who regretted schooling their kids back in the 'West' and plenty that wished they had gone back. You can always make the choice to come back to Thailand later on in life.

My stepdaughter has learned a lot of good values in school in the West by learning to complete her homework on time and have self-motivation and be on top of things. She had to unlearn some things as she's only going to be as good as they work she does and the grades will be reflective of that. She in visiting Thailand now and picked up some grammar books in the first couple of days back to prepare for college this coming winter.

 

She's making good money and sees how good she has it (at least financially). She's a good kid. Going to have shared Thai-American values.