Help Me Find A Lawyer

[garyg]

I am UK based, so need some help with a recommendation for a lawyer in Bangkok.

My fiance has run into some technical problems regarding her divorce from her English ex-husband. The divorce was a "registration office" divorce, and the Thai authorities are telling her that she is free to re-marry.

The British Embassy, however, are telling us that they do not recognise the "registration office" divorce, and, as a consequence, my fiance's visa application as my spouse (one we marry) would be rejected.

So we really need a mix of family law and UK immigration/visa application expertise.

I have been in touch with Tilleke and Gibbins International, but I could really do with one or two others to talk to before we appoint one to act for my fiance.

I tried a search without much luck, so any help would be appreciated.

Gary

[anamore]

Why not ask her "former" husband?

Maybe he doesn't know about this divorce thing but again maybe he knows and at the same time you could get to know some more about your fiance.

With this knowledge you could (re)consider the situation.

In the worste case of in the beste case you could even find out that she isn't worth all this effort .

Don't get me wrong, doe yourself a favour: just think it over and read the other threads over thai women. You'll be surprised.

[garyg]

Appreciate the advice. As all I wanted was a lawyer contact, I decided to keep the personal details brief.

I have known my fiance for over three years (not my fiance the whole time!!) and we lived together in the UK for ten months. Her previous marriage was borne out of my reluctance at the time to make any serious commitment to a relationship. Nothing to do with her, rather more to do with my attitude as a result of a previous failed marriage to an English partner.

Her marriage was a big mistake, didn't last much longer than five minutes and, not unsurprisingly, left her ex-husband very angry. The ex-husband agreed to the "registration office" divorce at the Thai Embassy in London and , at the time, all parties thought that was the end of it.

We were surprised to learn of the possibilty of the British Embassy not recognising the divorce. We have received various opinions on the matter, some conflicting. The ex-husband knows of the potential problems with the divorce. But as he also knows that my fiance/his ex-wife wants to return to the UK, he emphatically is not co-operating.

So there you have it. A genuine relationship that has some baggage to deal with. Not unlike many others!

So back to the original question. Any recommendations for a lawyer in Bangkok?

Gary

[dr_Pat_Pong]

If you were married at Thai law, and divorced at Thai law, it has nothing to do with the UK Government at all.

[garyg]

Dr. PP, that is just what I thought, and I still hope that the statement is true.

However, I have to consider the following:

1. The British Embassy has written to me telling me that they do not recognise a "registration office" divorce carried out on UK soil (there is UK case law establishing that the Thai Embassy in London is considered to be UK soil) in a marriage involving a UK national.

2. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (a British government department) has confirmed the position stated by the British Embassy.

3. The British Government's Diplomatic Procedures covering entry clearance clearly state that in the case of a visa application by the spouse of a UK national, all that is required for a marriage to be valid is a valid marriage certificate that is legal in the country in which it was issued;

4. The Diplmatic Procedures appear to contradict 1 and 2.

5. The Thai Embassy in London say that my fiance is free to marry (subject to the 310 day rule).

6. Her local Amphur Office in Phra Khanong seem to think she is free to marry.

7. There is a possibilty that, in fact, the Thai Embassy in London and the Amphur Office are both wrong, as I have been told that the Thai law in relation to divorce by mutual consent is that it "shall be valid if permitted by the respective nationality of both the husband and wife".

8. There are conditions under which "registration office" divorce (divorce by mutual consent) would be recognised in UK law, but these conditions have not been met in this case.

9. A court issued divorce - Thai or UK - would be recognised as a legal divorce. The (ex) husband is not co-operating with a UK court divorce in spite of the fact that it is in his best long-term interest.

Given all of this, my fiance and I are trying to see if there is a way in which she can get a Thai court to ratify the possibly invalid "registration office" divorce, and issue a Thai court divorce. Alternatively, she wants to explore petitioning for divorce in Thailand, recognising the fact the her (ex) husband is unlikley to respond, and almost certainly would not appear in court to defend.

So, as you can see, the situation is not as clear cut as it appears.

Again, any lawyer recommendations would be welcomed.

Gary

[thaihome]

I think you have the best contact in Tilleke and Gibbins. A few years ago they handled a similar situation for a Brit friend of mine.

TH

[dr_Pat_Pong]

It really is a Brit matter I think, and thus, you need a Brit lawyer. A much easier thing to manage for you.

[Richard W]

Dr. PP, that is just what I thought, and I still hope that the statement is true.

However, I have to consider the following:

1. The British Embassy has written to me telling me that they do not recognise a "registration office" divorce carried out on UK soil (there is UK case law establishing that the Thai Embassy in London is considered to be UK soil) in a marriage involving a UK national.

2. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (a British government department) has confirmed the position stated by the British Embassy.

3. The British Government's Diplomatic Procedures covering entry clearance clearly state that in the case of a visa application by the spouse of a UK national, all that is required for a marriage to be valid is a valid marriage certificate that is legal in the country in which it was issued;

4. The Diplmatic Procedures appear to contradict 1 and 2.

If you have read the procedures correctly, the immigration rules will require more of a marriage than that it be valid. A man may have four wives at a time in many countries, but he can only bring one to this country by virtue of marriage. (I don't know what tricks can be performed by juggling divorces.)

The procedures don't always state the law correctly; their Surinder Singh procedure was declared wrong in law in the Autumn last year.

I think the domicile of your fiancée and the man she married at the time of the divorce at the Thai embassy should also be relevant. He I presume was domiciled here; she may also have been domiciled here. (I can even see a faint, nightmarish possibility that she is still domiciled here.) As Dr Pat Pong says, you need a British lawyer to sort out the mess. If you can't get a British court to declare that your fiancée is divorced, start preparing your immigration appeal before you apply for a visa. I'm not sure that a barrister's opinon (or whatever the legal term is for his advice as to the law) will sway the ECO.