Fighting With Thai Men......

[PeaceBlondie]

That story about his pregnant Thai wife standing at the jukebox, and being pushed down by thugs, reminds me of a scene from the movie "Giant," where Rock Hudson defends his son's Mexican wife by mopping the floor of the restaurant with all those nasty old gangster types in Texas. And Rock Hudson, of course, was a macho man............

[Grover]

And Rock Hudson, of course, was a macho man............

yeh just your type eh PB

[psychedelix47]

Fighting is so uncool, only macho halfwits would be proud of it.

It creates bad karma, which perpetuates the cycle of violence. If you tune into the right vibration, there is no need for fights.

Peace on earth, bros.

[JimsKnight]

That story about his pregnant Thai wife standing at the jukebox, and being pushed down by thugs, reminds me of a scene from the movie "Giant," where Rock Hudson defends his son's Mexican wife by mopping the floor of the restaurant with all those nasty old gangster types in Texas. And Rock Hudson, of course, was a macho man............

Hmm, yeah that movie fight was ok but I seem to recall Rock Hudson losing the fight though and being thrown a placard sign saying 'The Management reserves the right...!'

[Robski]

thai man dont fight fair. it's their turf.

people in their own country dont fight fair either.

Fighting fair is a novel concept. Each society as different concepts of what is acceptable. Best not to find out what those are if you can avoid it because you may be to slow to adjust to the society's concept of what is fair.

In places where life is cheap winning is more important than being fair.

Good post, there is a very big difference between west and east when it comes to conflict, the idea of fairness goes back to the old notion of chivalry practiced by European armies up until WW1, and it's legacy is the western concept of fair play, altruism and integrity.

Oriental philosophy is much more pragmatic, and the way it views conflict is based on entirely different different constructs, most notably the teachings of Sun Tzu.

For example, never attack your opponent if you are out-numbered, if the numbers are even only attack if the outcome is favorable, always attack if you out-number your opponent.

Make your enemy think you are weak, and observe him for his own weaknesses.

When an enemy is strong wait until he is weak or vulnerable to attack.

To a westerner this might seem unfair or cowardly, but in reality do you want to win or do you want to prove how noble you are.

Sun Tzu says that knowledge is the key to certain victory. Know your enemy.

[leftcross]

ulysees' actions were complete and utter skin saving cowardice. to see a young girl being beaten by a gang and then not intervening is low, very very low.

you use your age as an excuse but perhaps your age would have been a help. thais respect their elders and seniority and the teenagers may have backed off.

it's not clever to use violence in the street, but you had the immediate chance to save someone from potential death and you skulked away 'to be a coward another day'

if it was a gang of men fighting then perhaps you would be justified, but a young girl????

when i was at sea i knew a lad, gyro, who was seven stone wet through. every time we went out drinking and fighting this lad used to duck out of the way because he hated it. we all used to say he had no bottle.

one night we were in high seas near iceland and someone was washed over the side. without a thought for himself, gyro jumped into the seas to try and save him. it was suicide, but it was the bravest thing everyone who saw it said they had ever seen. that lad gave his life to try and help someone else. that is true bravery.

i'm sure the cowards among you will say 'live to be a coward another day' but the world has been shaped by people like gyro, who selflessly give their lives for another cause.

[Ulysses G.]

ulysees' actions were complete and utter skin saving cowardice. to see a young girl being beaten by a gang and then not intervening is low, very very low.

Nice and safe in your hotel room isn't it?

Another internet hero.

[lannarebirth]

ulysees' actions were complete and utter skin saving cowardice. to see a young girl being beaten by a gang and then not intervening is low, very very low.

you use your age as an excuse but perhaps your age would have been a help. thais respect their elders and seniority and the teenagers may have backed off.

it's not clever to use violence in the street, but you had the immediate chance to save someone from potential death and you skulked away 'to be a coward another day'

if it was a gang of men fighting then perhaps you would be justified, but a young girl????

when i was at sea i knew a lad, gyro, who was seven stone wet through. every time we went out drinking and fighting this lad used to duck out of the way because he hated it. we all used to say he had no bottle.

one night we were in high seas near iceland and someone was washed over the side. without a thought for himself, gyro jumped into the seas to try and save him. it was suicide, but it was the bravest thing everyone who saw it said they had ever seen. that lad gave his life to try and help someone else. that is true bravery.

i'm sure the cowards among you will say 'live to be a coward another day' but the world has been shaped by people like gyro, who selflessly give their lives for another cause.

As someone who spent an entire career at sea, I'd say "gyro" was not very bright and very poorly trained. You should have thrown a life ring with emergency light attached instead, whilst calling the bridge to execute a Williamson Turn. In those waters the life would likely still be lost, but certainly not two.

[leftcross]

ulysees' actions were complete and utter skin saving cowardice. to see a young girl being beaten by a gang and then not intervening is low, very very low.

Nice and safe in your hotel room isn't it?

Another internet hero.

you neither know whether i am a hero or a coward, as i have not told you any personal experiences from which you could judge.

you, however, have described your gutless actions on the forum.

[Ulysses G.]

Cable TV? WI FI?

Is the air conditioning nice and cozy?

[leftcross]

ulysees' actions were complete and utter skin saving cowardice. to see a young girl being beaten by a gang and then not intervening is low, very very low.

you use your age as an excuse but perhaps your age would have been a help. thais respect their elders and seniority and the teenagers may have backed off.

it's not clever to use violence in the street, but you had the immediate chance to save someone from potential death and you skulked away 'to be a coward another day'

if it was a gang of men fighting then perhaps you would be justified, but a young girl????

when i was at sea i knew a lad, gyro, who was seven stone wet through. every time we went out drinking and fighting this lad used to duck out of the way because he hated it. we all used to say he had no bottle.

one night we were in high seas near iceland and someone was washed over the side. without a thought for himself, gyro jumped into the seas to try and save him. it was suicide, but it was the bravest thing everyone who saw it said they had ever seen. that lad gave his life to try and help someone else. that is true bravery.

i'm sure the cowards among you will say 'live to be a coward another day' but the world has been shaped by people like gyro, who selflessly give their lives for another cause.

As someone who spent an entire career at sea, I'd say "gyro" was not very bright and very poorly trained. You should have thrown a life ring with emergency light attached instead, whilst calling the bridge to execute a Williamson Turn. In those waters the life would likely still be lost, but certainly not two.

as someone else said on this thread - people often act with selfless bravery as a reflex action, it is not something they think about.

for example, if you were walking down the street and you saw a kid playing and a truck hurtling down the hill towards it you could A) dive into the road and throw the child to safety while getting yourself killed

do the Ulysses thing, say to yourself 'i don't know the kid, someone will die and i dont want it to be me. i will live tomorrow'

my point about gyro is that you may be seen as a coward, you may be scared of violence, of trouble or of getting hurt. but when something happens in front of you that requires an act of selfless bravery you may act in that manner by reflex, even if it means you sacrificing your own life.

others do nothing and think of their own skins.

[lannarebirth]

ulysees' actions were complete and utter skin saving cowardice. to see a young girl being beaten by a gang and then not intervening is low, very very low.

you use your age as an excuse but perhaps your age would have been a help. thais respect their elders and seniority and the teenagers may have backed off.

it's not clever to use violence in the street, but you had the immediate chance to save someone from potential death and you skulked away 'to be a coward another day'

if it was a gang of men fighting then perhaps you would be justified, but a young girl????

when i was at sea i knew a lad, gyro, who was seven stone wet through. every time we went out drinking and fighting this lad used to duck out of the way because he hated it. we all used to say he had no bottle.

one night we were in high seas near iceland and someone was washed over the side. without a thought for himself, gyro jumped into the seas to try and save him. it was suicide, but it was the bravest thing everyone who saw it said they had ever seen. that lad gave his life to try and help someone else. that is true bravery.

i'm sure the cowards among you will say 'live to be a coward another day' but the world has been shaped by people like gyro, who selflessly give their lives for another cause.

As someone who spent an entire career at sea, I'd say "gyro" was not very bright and very poorly trained. You should have thrown a life ring with emergency light attached instead, whilst calling the bridge to execute a Williamson Turn. In those waters the life would likely still be lost, but certainly not two.

as someone else said on this thread - people often act with selfless bravery as a reflex action, it is not something they think about.

for example, if you were walking down the street and you saw a kid playing and a truck hurtling down the hill towards it you could A) dive into the road and throw the child to safety while getting yourself killed

do the Ulysses thing, say to yourself 'i don't know the kid, someone will die and i dont want it to be me. i will live tomorrow'

my point about gyro is that you may be seen as a coward, you may be scared of violence, of trouble or of getting hurt. but when something happens in front of you that requires an act of selfless bravery you may act in that manner by reflex, even if it means you sacrificing your own life.

others do nothing and think of their own skins.

I simply can't agree. Your example did not call for the action of one who is selflessly brave. It called for the action of one who is well drilled in what action to take when a man is swept overboard. All real professional mariners are well drilled in what action to take. Your friend discarded that taining and committed suicide instead. Ulysses did the right thing IMO.

[brahmburgers]

The way I see it, Thai people generally have two channels, it's calm or beserk. there's appears to be no in-between. They can be calm, calm, calm, even if something is buggin them, then all of a sudden, blammo!

In contrast, westerners are more likely to express annoyance at various stages in increasing degrees, if the annoyance persists - gradually amping up their expressions of annoyance and/or anger.

As far as 'fair fight' - I doubt there's an equivalent phrase in Thai. As mentioned earlier, often westerners might shove, or land a few hard knocks, then the weaker one will lick his wounds and be gone. Two guys in a fight, might attract a crowd of howlers. In Thailand, the crowd won't stand around and make noise, they'll jump in the fray full-tilt on the side of their pal - right or wrong - makes no difference. there's no consciousness of 'fair fight' or one-on-one, etc - if they think about that stuff at all, they think it's for sissies.

It's all or nothing. Women are not exempt from the generalities herein. I've seen a women go full-tilt ballistic - screaming their gonads out - where a second earlier they appeared as calm as a cucumber.

[ColPyat]

do the Ulysses thing, say to yourself 'i don't know the kid, someone will die and i dont want it to be me. i will live tomorrow'

Rubbish. What Ulysses did was the only intelligent thing to do, and more to the advantage of the girl than your proposed stupidity.

He analysed the situation and recognised that he could not deal with the situation himself and alerted the authorities, and therefore saved precious time as opposed to the other alternative proposed by you - the girl and Ulysses both being injured and having to wait for somebody else intelligent alerting the authorities.

The question is not being a "hero" or a "coward", but doing what is best to aid the victim.

[leftcross]

no, when someone is immediate and clear physical danger then the only acceptable option is to make an intervention there and then.

who knows, he may have told the kids to leave her alone and they might have.

[bkkmadness]

In Thailand, the crowd won't stand around and make noise, they'll jump in the fray full-tilt on the side of their pal - right or wrong - makes no difference.

In every country it happens like that, Thailand is no different.

[bkkmadness]

no, when someone is immediate and clear physical danger then the only acceptable option is to make an intervention there and then.

Would you do the same were there guns involved and yourself unarmed?

That'd be the only acceptable option right?

Edited December 1, 2006 by bkkmadness

[leftcross]

who knows? if i saw a young girl being killed then i'd like to think i would still have a go. probably has something to do with being a father.

[ColPyat]

no, when someone is immediate and clear physical danger then the only acceptable option is to make an intervention there and then.

who knows, he may have told the kids to leave her alone and they might have.

With this attitude you will not find a job in any rescue service ever. As another poster has already stated here - there are clear regulations and directives in most western countries concerning those sort of actions, and here in Thailand there may be no such directives, but i have never heard any group leader advising anything else.

What you propose is the job of the police, who has the authority and the training for these situations. Not you.

[bkkmadness]

who knows? if i saw a young girl being killed then i'd like to think i would still have a go. probably has something to do with being a father.

So you do have some doubts about yourself jumping in and helping then? You would like to think you'd have a go but not sure.

They'd be a chance that you'd take some other course of action to help the girl instead?

[leftcross]

i don't know how i would act until the situation arose, and neither does anyone else.

we are talking her about how someone actually did react to a real life situation.

[bkkmadness]

i don't know how i would act until the situation arose, and neither does anyone else.

we are talking her about how someone actually did react to a real life situation.

If you are not sure how would you react in a situation like this, how can you comment so negatively about how someone actually did react in a situation? You say yourself there is a chance you would have acted in the same way.

[JimsKnight]

no, when someone is immediate and clear physical danger then the only acceptable option is to make an intervention there and then.

who knows, he may have told the kids to leave her alone and they might have.

With this attitude you will not find a job in any rescue service ever. As another poster has already stated here - there are clear regulations and directives in most western countries concerning those sort of actions, and here in Thailand there may be no such directives, but i have never heard any group leader advising anything else.

What you propose is the job of the police, who has the authority and the training for these situations. Not you.

I'm with left cross on this one. If all we did was stand by and let bullies and scummy little gangs hurt people then the world would be a very dark and nasty place with cowardly people scurrying about.

Jumping in the sea to save someone is a brave and noble thing to do especially where all others had doubted him to this point. Forget professional mariners / rescuers etc. What needs doing in the flash of an eye needs to be done, the opportunity of rescueship fell on Gyro and Gyro alone and he took up the mantle. It gives hope and courage to others who hear of the tale too. Its certainly better to say of someone dying trying to save anothers life than dying at the end of a boring life, in their bed!

However I don't think you can broadside Ulysees for not inteventing, his age and health alone spares him of that. Although, yeah ok maybe shouting may of had an impact on those little twts attacking the girl, but we'll never know that now will we.

I always shake my head when people talk of getting the police in or leaving it to the 'experts'. There isn't time in 90% of cases to do that! By the time those guys (or gals) get on the scene its too late! The damage is done and often the bad guys have gotten away. Even if the're caught later on they it still won't change what they've done will it!

[ColPyat]

.

Edited December 1, 2006 by ColPyat

[ColPyat]

i don't know how i would act until the situation arose, and neither does anyone else.

we are talking her about how someone actually did react to a real life situation.

Maybe you should then apologise to Ulysses for calling him a coward and not having faced such a situation yourself.

[Robski]

you neither know whether i am a hero or a coward, as i have not told you any personal experiences from which you could judge.

you, however, have described your gutless actions on the forum.

Why don't you tell us then Leftcross, you talk about other peoples actions, but not any of your own, yet you sound such an expert on what should be done.

no, when someone is immediate and clear physical danger then the only acceptable option is to make an intervention there and then.

who knows, he may have told the kids to leave her alone and they might have.

you sound like the sort of guy that would do well in the police, have you ever thought of joining? or do you just prefer being an armchair policeman.

i don't know how i would act until the situation arose, and neither does anyone else.

we are talking her about how someone actually did react to a real life situation.

Says it all really, all show and no go.

[ColPyat]

I'm with left cross on this one. If all we did was stand by and let bullies and scummy little gangs hurt people then the world would be a very dark and nasty place with cowardly people scurrying about.

Jumping in the sea to save someone is a brave and noble thing to do especially where all others had doubted him to this point. Forget professional mariners / rescuers etc. What needs doing in the flash of an eye needs to be done,

As a rescue volonteer, and once in a related field professionally, i can tell you that the biggest pain in the behind are the people who imagine themselves as doing something, but do something that is beyond their knowledge and abilities. They get in the way, and generally screw things up even worse.

No, what needs to be "in the flash of an eye" should not be just "done", but carefully analysed, and after carefully analysing the correct measure has to be taken. That is where training, experience and professionalism are important.

If you feel so strong about "bullies" and "scummy little gangs" then please, become a police officer, and receive your training. But my fear is that with your attitude you will not be accepted and end up as one of the many security guards who failed the psychological exam.

[Jeff1]

Instead of reading thru all of this my reply will be simple, why?

99% of all fights can be avoided. Do so.

You can say anything you want about me and it will not matter. The one percent would be when someone disrespects a loved one of mine.

[bkkmadness]

You can say anything you want about me and it will not matter. The one percent would be when someone disrespects a loved one of mine.

What brand of beer is that?

[leftcross]

i don't know how i would act until the situation arose, and neither does anyone else.

we are talking her about how someone actually did react to a real life situation.

Maybe you should then apologise to Ulysses for calling him a coward and not having faced such a situation yourself.

i have been in similar situations. once i was with two friends in the street when i saw a gang go up to one lad with a girl. one of them headbutted the lad and when he went down a few kicks went it.

my two friends stood still while i ran up to the gang (six or seven lads about my age) and punched the one who had headbutted him. i hit him so hard his shoe came off as he went straight down on the floor. he smacked his head on the road and was out cold.

it took two or three seconds for the rest of them to realise what was going on then one of them laid into me. i started to fight him and then the others joined in. i was outnumbered.

next thing i know, some bloke has seen what was going on and wades in on my behalf. between the pair of us we managed to get these lads on their toes. they legged it. the kid who had been attacked first and his girlfriend thanked us both profusely. they were really shook up.

the bloke who stepped in later said he had seen me been attacked by a gang and wanted to even up the numbers. if it hadnt been for him i would have taken a hiding.

we all went on our seperate ways. the whole thing had only lasted five minutes or something.

my so-called friends did nothing and i asked them why. they said it was nothing to do with them and they might have got hurt trying to intervene. but as soon as i saw that gang attack the first lad i knew what i had to do. he was in trouble and needed help. i could have phoned the police, but it would have been too late.