"what Thaksin Had Done Wrong"

[ColPyat]

The beauty of the last 18 months has been ,so far, to be able to retrieve that crisis of dictatorship democracy without any violence and hopefully move forward to a more accountable society.

By having a military dictatorship, bans against books by the left and other intimidation tactics of dissenters, so that the new national economic policy cannot be discussed in public anymore?

By the same extremist nationalism that was behind the attacks on the left in the 70s (which did not spiral out of control, but was very much in control by the likes of Thanin, who made now pro government speaches on morality, Thainess and such)?

By revitalising the cold war dinosaur - the ISOC - and giving it a role that will put it completely out of reach of the future parliament, only answerable to the military?

Yes...accountable society...

[younghusband]

Those village scouts represented Thailand's rural majority. Has things changed much since then?

That is a foul lie, of which you should be ashamed.The village scouts represented nothing of the kind.They were a fascist mob supported, funded and exploited by powerful interests in Bangkok.

The latest of which was TRT funded, ie the mob attack on The Nation, Suriyasai speaking for the PAD in Udon surrounded and threatened by a baying crowd egged on by TRT MPs, The Democrats attacked in Chiang Mai- all last year.

What are you talking about? Do you know what the Village Scouts are and what their record was in the 1970's of rape and murder of innocents, egged on or at least condoned by the ruling elite.? Do you know anything about Thai history?

If you are just saying that the TRT employed rural mobs to hassle the Democrats/PAD last year, just say so.You may well be right but this slovenly use of language and argument is intellectually bankrupt.The two cannot be compared.

Of course I know about the Village Scouts, I was a student in 1976 and fully remember the Krating Daeng and Nawapon thugs in Bangkok, the horror of Thammasart as all 3 vented their evil anger.

Uneducated and indeed ill-educated, their attacks on the left at the time were despicable and the police turned a blind eye.

Switch forward to last year-Klong Toei mobs paid to threaten The Nation, several motorcycle taxis ranks at The Manager threatening Sonthi, thousands of farmers in Udon massing in buses under TRT MPs intimidating Suriyasai.

The police doing nothing.

Luckily the coup leaders nipped the violence in the bud as it were, but the scenarios can be compared, the rich

and powerful, (last year Thaksin and his cronies) using the dispossessed and ignorant for their own ends.

It's clear you do know about the Village Scouts which makes your intellectual dishonesty even worse than I suspected.To compare the actions of a few ruffians (a tiny minority among the legitimate counter protests) last year with the disgusting behaviour -bestial scenes of murder and rape- of the Village Scouts in the 1970's is Orwellian doublespeak.Thaksin was a popularly elected leader and whatever his faults had legitimacy.The same cannot be said for the miltary and feudal throwbacks who egged on the murderers in the 1970's.

Are all you apologists for this illegal junta so crazed with bias that you cannot recognise that in the street protests last year both sides can take credit for generally civilised behaviour?No deaths, sensible crowd control by PAD, police restraint etc. It was the one aspect of the last 18 months of almost unmitigated negative political developments that Thais can take real pride in.

Young husband, for someone so young your patronising, condescending insufferable arrogance takes some beating.

Why don't you go down to the slums of Klong Toei and ask the 'legitimate' counter protesters why they besieged The Nation, go up to Udon and ask them why in their thousands they threatened the PAD.

I guarantee they could only say because they were told to.

In the 70s it all spiralled out of control, don't try to tell me about the atrocities, I remember to this day the Thammasart boy hanging fron the tamarine tree, bloodied and dead with a sandal stuffed into his mouth being beaten by a chair by a frenzied mob. And he was one of many.

Thaksin was going down the same road. He refused to debate with the politicians in Parliament, he refused to debate with his critics outside, all he could do was rely on henchmen like Newin and Yongyut to harass and provoke the PAD.

He failed utterly the test of a democrat, namely willingness to debate and defend one's viewpoint.

The beauty of the last 18 months has been ,so far, to be able to retrieve that crisis of dictatorship democracy without any violence and hopefully move forward to a more accountable society.

Not so young I'm afraid and I too saw the crimes committed at Thammasart, though from a TV screen hiding my face while the Thai staff in the office crowed with pleasure at the nak pen din students getting their bloody and in their view just deserts.Unlike you I don't think it all "just spiralled out of control" but was carefully planned and executed.I think most credible Thai history scholars would agree.

I'm afraid that I have to repeat my charge of intellectual dishonesty.The two episodes are simply not comparable and frankly it is embarrassing to see someone of your intelligence returning to this foolish charge.You feebly say that "Thaksin was going down the same road" but without any evidence.But perhaps you are thinking of a "Minority Report" situation where people can be convicted for crimes they might commit some time in the future.The reality is that I am quite sure thugs and hooligans were hired to harass the PAD but regrettable though this is it is nevertheless part of street politics.Nobody was killed and I think both sides can take credit for a generally peaceful process.If you are looking for someone with blood on his hands, you might make a start with exactly what Surayud was up to when his troops opened fire on innocent demonstrators back in 1992.

What I detect in all your posts is a fear of the mob from whatever side it comes.It might astonish you that I fear it too and I am all too conscious of what Thais are capable of when their blood is up.I pray for the emergence of a Thai statesman who will find a way through this difficult time.Let us admit it:the old dinosaurs have failed.

[sriracha john]

Seems like the book contains sensitive quotes from a book already banned previous to the coup and stores aren't yet ready to chance throwing it on the shelves.

Chulalongkorn University Book Centre (CU Book Centre) has banned “A Coup for the Rich”, written by a political scientist at Chulalongkorn University.

The school's bookstore won't sell a book written by one of the school's own professors???

I guess it will be difficult to find "critics" (sic) critiques of the book if no one can get a copy of it.

[Astropuppy]

It seems to me that the biggest part of the last five months is being missed by most of the contributors.

Thailand stopped being a democracy the day the coup took place. It will not matter who is elected by the citizens in the next election: the glass that holds a democracy coherent has been broken in Thailand (again). Corrupt politicians are removed in a democracy by the vote or by the court. If one fails then unhappy citizens wait for the next. Thailand has become a Military State (again). The next election will push politicians that have military connections and then government control will carry a new meaning.

PM Thaksin (good or bad) was a part of the democratic process. That is compromised now.

Thaksin, Taxin, Toxin.... Come on guys: get a life. The whining crew is feasting on the crumbs and totally missing what happened at the banquet.

[ColPyat]

Seems like the book contains sensitive quotes from a book already banned previous to the coup and stores aren't yet ready to chance throwing it on the shelves.

Chulalongkorn University Book Centre (CU Book Centre) has banned “A Coup for the Rich”, written by a political scientist at Chulalongkorn University.

The school's bookstore won't sell a book written by one of the school's own professors???

I guess it will be difficult to find "critics" (sic) critiques of the book if no one can get a copy of it.

I don't think that the bookstore of a university, usually the last refuge of open-mindedness, being too intimidated to sell a book is a laughing matter. On the opposite - it is very troubling, and significant for the time we live in.

As you can see, the reason given are a few quoted passages, which, in academia is standard fare for any book, paper, etc.

[Tony Clifton]

It seems to me that the biggest part of the last five months is being missed by most of the contributors.

Thailand stopped being a democracy the day the coup took place. It will not matter who is elected by the citizens in the next election: the glass that holds a democracy coherent has been broken in Thailand (again). Corrupt politicians are removed in a democracy by the vote or by the court. If one fails then unhappy citizens wait for the next. Thailand has become a Military State (again). The next election will push politicians that have military connections and then government control will carry a new meaning.

PM Thaksin (good or bad) was a part of the democratic process. That is compromised now.

Thaksin, Taxin, Toxin.... Come on guys: get a life. The whining crew is feasting on the crumbs and totally missing what happened at the banquet.

Are you saying Thailand was a democracy under Thaksin's rule when newspapers and tv stations were forced to fire staff that did not comply with Thaksin's views? When there was widespread electoral fraud? Judges, Election committee, govt. officers and staff, police et all, all bought by and partial to Thaksin? All sorts of killings going on? A <deleted>' mess made worse by a corrupt and lying man who became an idol to those wanting to get rich quick, no matter how.

As for removing corrupt politicians by waiting for the next rigged election, you get caught in a never ending loop.

Thaksin promised to do so but instead put the corruption machine in high gear instead of slowing it down.

[Tony Clifton]

Others may perceive it as a publicity stunt.

[ColPyat]

Others may perceive it as a publicity stunt.

The only thing that gives a privately printed academic work of papers presented at symposiums publicity outside the academic world is if shops decide not to sell it, and media or governments get involved in an archaic debate over possible bans of such a book.

[SeanBangkok]

Who wants to compile a list on the CNS -- oops, thats illegal

[Tony Clifton]

Others may perceive it as a publicity stunt.

The only thing that gives a privately printed academic work of papers presented at symposiums publicity outside the academic world is if shops decide not to sell it, and media or governments get involved in an archaic debate over possible bans of such a book.

And he honestly thought it wouldn't get banned even though it contains quotes from a previously banned book? Or maybe it's just that, a bunch of papers quickly put together to print four or so short months after a still developing coup, with the sole intention of getting it banned. There were kamikaze pilots, then suicide bombers and now, a new breed of suicide authors?

[ColPyat]

And he honestly thought it wouldn't get banned even though it contains quotes from a previously banned book? Or maybe it's just that, a bunch of papers quickly put together to print four or so short months after a still developing coup, with the sole intention of getting it banned. There were kamikaze pilots, then suicide bombers and now, a new breed of suicide authors?

I am sorry, but that is a bit of a far fetched conspiracy theory to support your not very educated points of view. Why don't you just go an read it before making speculations.

The mentioned quotes are not the main topic of the book, have been added to a freely available paper long in existence, there are many other academics quoted, and the other papers give a very interesting background into Thailand's people's movement and the political theories that inspire the different factions, and how that all relates to the coup.

There are far more explosive books and papers freely available in the Chula bookstore, but nobody makes a fuzz about them because the media is most likely too lazy to read them.

Edited February 18, 2007 by ColPyat

[sriracha john]

They didn't block it very well:

A lot of the internet blocks initiated by Thaksin's "cypercop program" are no longer in effect.

[SeanBangkok]

One thing Taskin did right: the Thai economy was running on budget surpluses. The CNS's call for huge increases in money spent in the Military and will be running a large defeciets.

Taskin is gone! Ya! Yippe! Now Thailand can flourish into a true land of democracy... at the hands of a Military Junta! The last 13 of the them didnt work, maybe this is lucky number 14!

[sriracha john]

One thing Taskin did right: the Thai economy was running on budget surpluses. The CNS's call for huge increases in money spent in the Military and will be running a large defeciets.

A review of some crucial posts made prior to your TV membership will help explain WHY the deficits are there :

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?ac...&pid=988782

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?ac...&pid=988061

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?ac...&pid=984750

[Siripon]

Of course I know about the Village Scouts, I was a student in 1976 and fully remember the Krating Daeng and Nawapon thugs in Bangkok, the horror of Thammasart as all 3 vented their evil anger.

Uneducated and indeed ill-educated, their attacks on the left at the time were despicable and the police turned a blind eye.

Switch forward to last year-Klong Toei mobs paid to threaten The Nation, several motorcycle taxis ranks at The Manager threatening Sonthi, thousands of farmers in Udon massing in buses under TRT MPs intimidating Suriyasai.

The police doing nothing.

Luckily the coup leaders nipped the violence in the bud as it were, but the scenarios can be compared, the rich

and powerful, (last year Thaksin and his cronies) using the dispossessed and ignorant for their own ends.

I wonder though why you then support now the same ideals of government, patriotism and Thainess represented then by the inventors of these right wing militias, and now by the junta. The same question do now many anti junta academics of the oktober generation ask their comrades of those dark days who joined this right wing junta (and to be fair, many have asked this the ones supporting Thaksin as well).

How many times have you posted your admiration for Sondhi L., but he is not from the left - he is from the social conservatives, whose argumentation and thought has only enabled the horrors of those days. Don't forget - Sondhi L. has with his media empire played an active role in the latest Thai massaker - the drugwar killings, another concerted effort by the different Thai elites in fighting a social threat with brutal violence.

It is not only me, but many noted Thai academics, who do question why people of the okober generation could have been so blinded in their hate against Thaksin, that they have joined forces with their earstwhile enemies.

Even though dubious, but easer to understand is the logic behind the october people who have joined Thaksin, as they saw there an opportunity to realise some of their ideas of real development for the rural poor.

You never answer the question about Surayud's personal involvement in May '92, another one of those regular Thai horrors. How can you so vehemently support a government that is made up of so many people who have actively taken part in several massakers against the people?

Yes, Surayud has apologised to the people of the three Changwats, but has he brought the perpetrators of Tak Bai to justice? Nops. They are stil free.

The unruly elements some of the nastier TRT people have organised were not comparable to the village scouts, Navapon or Krathing Daeng. Nobody died, was raped or tortured, and the rumors on them mobilising these armed forces were nothing but rumors - no proof whatsoever, other than Sondhi L.'s outrageous accusations.

None of the people accused of that are in prison, or have courtcases filed against them.

And now one after the other of these cancers of Thai society find a home in the government you support, just because they make a wai and pay lipservice to the new overlords.

And what do we have now? National economic policy cannot be publically criticised, and instead we get "pan din Thai" patriotic brain washing, constant barrages of "kwahm pen Thai".

Sorry, but that is almost pure fascism, Thai style, with a good dose of elitism and classism.

Fortunately there are still some people around here who have not lost touch with reality, and who do not get blinded by either Thaksin, or the latest power grab by the same old elites whose misgovernance has only caused one massaker after the other in Thai history.

You use lots of western words, full of isms which are difficult to apply to Thailand.

Fascism, elitism, classism, what is that?!

You must remember the PAD is not only Sonthi L. Whather he is a 'conservative' as you call him, or not, he proved to be the lightning rod as an accomplished speaker and media operator in exposing Thaksin's wrongdoings. He galvanised the middle-class against Thaksin.

But he is not the PAD per se.If you followed their rallies last year you would know the PAD constantly had seminas, discussions on stage with NGOs, and members of the public from every walk of life, people such as Suriyasai, Chermsak Pinthong are not right wing, on the contrary they are truly concerned with the grassroots, and have been all their working lives.

You seem to hope a lot from academics, but they don't have a monopoly on reality. Wasn't it Giles who demanded the arrest of George Bush when he came to Thailand for the APEC meeting 2 years ago for crimes in Iraq?

And did you see the photo in The Bangkok Post today of the 5 men and a dog attending the rally at Sanam Luang of your favourite group,'The September 19 anti-coup protestors'.

The coup last September was unprecedented in its support by the middle-class, they're not the elite protecting their interests, they were simply outraged by Thaksin's contempt for accountable democracy.

The junta haven't prevented free discussion, academics hold seminars all the time, the papers freely criticise the junta, and if Sonthi L says something patently false on TV he'll surely be blamed.

By the way Giles's book was banned because he quoted material relating to the higher power that he plainly knew was off limits, similar to faking an injury in the penalty area!

[ColPyat]

You use lots of western words, full of isms which are difficult to apply to Thailand.

Fascism, elitism, classism, what is that?!

You still did not answer the questions i have asked. Do so, please.

Another one - why do you believe issues such as "classism, elitism and fascism" do not apply to Thailand?

If you read Giles's latest book, which is not banned, by the way, but debated, and refused to sell so far by the Chula bookstore, though will be on sale in an upcoming event at the Foreign Correspondent's Club, well, he has a clear definition for people of your opinion as "single issue activists".

You should read up on that. It is quite interesting.

[sriracha john]

Pojaman Shinawatra

Premchai Karnasuta

Nijaporn Joranachit

BOT delays UK money transfer by Pojaman

The Bank of Thailand (BOT) has not approved a request by deposed prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra's wife, Khunying Pojaman, to take money out of the country to buy a house in London, central bank governor Tarisa Watanagase said yesterday.

She said the central bank was waiting for comments from the Assets Examination Committee (AEC) and the Anti-Money Laundering Office (AMLO) as to whether a BOT approval would have any legal impact on investigations launched by the two agencies against Thaksin.

"We have full authority to approve Khunying Pojaman's demand, but we need to clarify the legal issues first," Tarisa said.

According to the Exchange Control Act, people taking money out of the Kingdom to buy property abroad in excess of US$500,000 (about Bt18.5 million) need an approval from the central bank. They are also required to present all necessary proof on the matter.

Tarisa said she did not know if Khunying Pojaman included the required proof with her request.

Meanwhile, the AEC said yesterday it had no objection to Pojaman's request as the matter was not under its authority.

The panel's chairman, Nam Yimyaem, said the central bank had full authority over the matter. He said the AEC had received the central bank's letter last week seeking to consult the committee over the matter, but he did not reveal any information as it was considered an official secret.

He said Pojaman was seeking to transfer more than Bt200 million out of the country.

Meanwhile, the Assets Examination Committee yesterday resolved to press charges against seven more people suspected of being involved in the corrupt CTX bomb detectors deal.

AEC spokesman Sak Korsaengruang said the seven were Premchai Karnasuta, CEO of Italian-Thai Development Plc, Nijaporn Joranachit, Premchai's sister, Takemi Yokota, Tadashi Uehara, Dominic Della Maggiora, Patriot Business Consultant Co, and Worapoj Yasadatt.

They will be accused of conspiring with government officials and state agencies to commit malfeasance or corruption in violation of Article 157, 83, 86, 91 of the criminal law and Article 3 of Offences Committed by State Officials or State Agencies Act 1959.

Sak said that AEC had earlier wanted Worapoj as state witness but there were additional charges against him.

AEC found that Patriot wrongly reported to the Customs Department that it imported 32 drug detection machines when in fact they were bomb detectors.

The five other suspects were involved because they were part of the four companies which the AEC accuses of being involved in the corrupt CTX deal.

Worapoj said the AEC should have kept him as a witness as he would be more useful to the case but he was willing to cooperate.

The Nation

[sriracha john]

Six face ASC charges in CTX scanner scam

Patriot Company boss Worapoj among those accused

The Assets Scrutiny Committee (ASC) has decided to press charges against six people including Worapoj Yasadatt, better known as Sia Che, in connection with the procurement of CTX bomb scanners for Suvarnabhumi airport. ASC spokesman Sak Korsaengruang said the six face charges of colluding in corruption with state authorities and have 15 days to defend themselves before an inquiry team. Mr Worapoj is managing director of Patriot Business Consultants Co. The firm, which acted as a go-between in the procurement, is also to be charged. Mr Sak said the ASC decided to seek the prosecution of Mr Worapoj for a ''certain reason'' he declined to discuss. It had been said that Mr Worapoj would be a prosecution witness.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/20Feb2007_news13.php

[Siripon]

Of course I know about the Village Scouts, I was a student in 1976 and fully remember the Krating Daeng and Nawapon thugs in Bangkok, the horror of Thammasart as all 3 vented their evil anger.

Uneducated and indeed ill-educated, their attacks on the left at the time were despicable and the police turned a blind eye.

Switch forward to last year-Klong Toei mobs paid to threaten The Nation, several motorcycle taxis ranks at The Manager threatening Sonthi, thousands of farmers in Udon massing in buses under TRT MPs intimidating Suriyasai.

The police doing nothing.

Luckily the coup leaders nipped the violence in the bud as it were, but the scenarios can be compared, the rich

and powerful, (last year Thaksin and his cronies) using the dispossessed and ignorant for their own ends.

I wonder though why you then support now the same ideals of government, patriotism and Thainess represented then by the inventors of these right wing militias, and now by the junta. The same question do now many anti junta academics of the oktober generation ask their comrades of those dark days who joined this right wing junta (and to be fair, many have asked this the ones supporting Thaksin as well).

How many times have you posted your admiration for Sondhi L., but he is not from the left - he is from the social conservatives, whose argumentation and thought has only enabled the horrors of those days. Don't forget - Sondhi L. has with his media empire played an active role in the latest Thai massaker - the drugwar killings, another concerted effort by the different Thai elites in fighting a social threat with brutal violence.

It is not only me, but many noted Thai academics, who do question why people of the okober generation could have been so blinded in their hate against Thaksin, that they have joined forces with their earstwhile enemies.

Even though dubious, but easer to understand is the logic behind the october people who have joined Thaksin, as they saw there an opportunity to realise some of their ideas of real development for the rural poor.

You never answer the question about Surayud's personal involvement in May '92, another one of those regular Thai horrors. How can you so vehemently support a government that is made up of so many people who have actively taken part in several massakers against the people?

Yes, Surayud has apologised to the people of the three Changwats, but has he brought the perpetrators of Tak Bai to justice? Nops. They are stil free.

The unruly elements some of the nastier TRT people have organised were not comparable to the village scouts, Navapon or Krathing Daeng. Nobody died, was raped or tortured, and the rumors on them mobilising these armed forces were nothing but rumors - no proof whatsoever, other than Sondhi L.'s outrageous accusations.

None of the people accused of that are in prison, or have courtcases filed against them.

And now one after the other of these cancers of Thai society find a home in the government you support, just because they make a wai and pay lipservice to the new overlords.

And what do we have now? National economic policy cannot be publically criticised, and instead we get "pan din Thai" patriotic brain washing, constant barrages of "kwahm pen Thai".

Sorry, but that is almost pure fascism, Thai style, with a good dose of elitism and classism.

Fortunately there are still some people around here who have not lost touch with reality, and who do not get blinded by either Thaksin, or the latest power grab by the same old elites whose misgovernance has only caused one massaker after the other in Thai history.

To answer your questions as you requested.

1. I support the junta because they overthrew a rightwing populist and parliamentary dictator who was seriously damaging the country. Whoever said the government is a right wing militia? Most newspaper columnists regard Surayut as well meaning but blundering. As for your allegations as to his involvement in Black May, where's the evidence as you like to say?

2.Regarding the October people who joined Thaksin, as I mentioned some time ago in the few short years from TRT's foundation to last June, well before Thaksin's overthrow, over half of the original founders of TRT had left due to disillusionment with the great dictator. This is apart from well known figures outside who originally supported him.

3.If you could read Thai, and you really should learn to if you want to seriously debate Thai politics, then you would know that all policies of the present Thai government are freely debated in magazines and newspapers.

[Midnight Blue]

What kind of evidence would satisfy you?

It's not about evidence, it's about people refusing to accept it.

I am merely an observer in regards to Thaksin, neither in support or against him. But I would comment that to disregard due process of law would reveal that you have no appreciation for the term DEMOCRACY.

[Tyree D.]

What kind of evidence would satisfy you?

It's not about evidence, it's about people refusing to accept it.

I am merely an observer in regards to Thaksin, neither in support or against him. But I would comment that to disregard due process of law would reveal that you have no appreciation for the term DEMOCRACY.

not everybody believes in DEMOCRACY.

[sriracha john]

First there was a song about the "Square-faced Man''. Now there is a toilet paper dispenser in his image, and in the image of various wild animals. This vendor sells her collection of tissue dispensers at a department store on the western outskirts of Bangkok.

Bangkok Post/February 21, 2007

========================

From one of Thaivisa's more lively discussions:

'Square-faced Man' A New Hit Song

with full credit due to Siripon's helpful assistance.

A rough translation of square-faced man:

Our square shaped friend is a thick-skinned man,

A Singapore lackey, he's hellbound, so brazen,

His staff, how they lick and fawn,

A mixed breed man, mixing Thai and English- cheap show-off.

The Opposition boycott, public start to stir, but he's unfazed,

Our insensitive dude is no real man, afraid of exposure, he dissolves Parliament,

Square-face head, handing crisp new banknotes to those going to ballot booths,

Some fake ballot papers too, to get 19 million votes,

Under pressure to resign -in the next life he says,

Sold Shin, sold the country, devoured it for his Chinese clan.

Power, he bought with currency,

Conspiring in the baht's flotation, he damaged the economy with his dollar hoarding,

If the law has a loophole, he emerges with a business,

When it's exposed, hiring a lawyer, he forgets to mention ethics.

Buying land for speculation, insider information told him about the sky train,

Vested interest policy,all the family rich, even the maids and gardeners!

Foreign products promoted in Thailand, it's free trade exchanged for IPstar,

Acting as mafia, extorting, fraud, even kidnap and killing.

Always devious, looking for underhand moves,

When hungry he consumes all the airwaves, Post Office, Egat,

For snacks he eats longan, for appetizers TPI and also rubber seedlings,

For take- away it's PTT with the shares given to Oak( his son) and Or( his wife),

At his home ,'The moonlit dogs'.

Thinking deviously, he can't get enough sleep,

Concealing the CTX scandal, sex is forgotten, an activity he loves,

Worried about Ample Rich, he forgets to zip his trousers after a leak( meaning can't control all his staff),

Concerned his fate is declining, his assets may be seized, he's afraid of higher powers.

The populist policies of square-head, what a boon!

Village funds debts for the grass-roots,

Debts postponed, money left over for mobile phones for all,

The 'caring' housing programme, shoddy, sloppy quality, cheaper to build your own,

'Silence killings' in the drug trade because the big fish fear exposure.

Legalised underground lottery, 75 percent for fraud, 25 percent for education,

30 baht scheme, every disease, diabetes, bird flu but just paracetomal,

When the square face man's popularity wanes, like a loose woman he hugs,

All those he sees, weeping crocodile tears.

Endless cheating,

He pays the Constitutional Court to not pass a verdict regarding asset concealment,

He finds and buys eunuchs for the independent organisations,

Corrupts the Civil Service, his minions promoted,

The tyrant square face, so conceited,

Wants to be a statesman, the short tail dog with a rotten face,( ie wants to look good but isn't),

Not knowing high from low,( respect for those senior), he insults Royalty,

Boasting he appoints The Supreme Patriach, the devil himself.

Square- head man, a Nazi who only lies,

Says he can catch the southern terrorists, but innocents are framed or die,

Claims he's a good person, but cheating on tax he sends his son to face the rap,

Claims to follow the system, but when disadvantaged he changes the rules.

He'll buy Liverpool, Fulham, fabricating news to hide his sins,

Asked to sign an agreement, he produces another one he's prepared,

Claims to suppress corruption, his dirty mouth should be suppressed,

Talks of Buddhist teachings, but when asked he just says 'so be it'.

Square-face geometrically sound,

His younger relative fatter, smaller brain, faked diploma to get a degree,

His daughter not bright,even after cheating GPA only over 2,

His son a low IQ, wearing shades to hide his drug addiction.

His wife unashamedly corrupt, strolling in the Emporiom is criticised,

So many more cases,from the monkhood to mega projects,

suffering from insomnia, he must have injections,

Soon he'll be neurotic,maybe strip off, hollering at an advertising sign.

In the future Thailand, maybe a secret prison with bases for the USA,

Singaporeans can come and go,well connected, no need for visas,

Khmer witchdoctors will be wealthy from casting spells to send square-head to Parliament,

Embezzling Thailand's money, he'll use to support Burma's economy.

Thailand will sell its shares , one baht as per par,

The national anthem will be changed, copyright monopolised this life and next,

Hitler will be reborn, his last son called' gold plated collection'.

There then follows a long list of Thaksin's colleagues.

Edited February 21, 2007 by sriracha john

[Plus]

What kind of evidence would satisfy you?

It's not about evidence, it's about people refusing to accept it.

I am merely an observer in regards to Thaksin, neither in support or against him. But I would comment that to disregard due process of law would reveal that you have no appreciation for the term DEMOCRACY.

There was no "due process of law" under Thaksin, and, to be honest, EVER in Thailand. In people's eyes the junta has delivered that "law", they don't really care if it was under "due process under Thai judicial system" or not, Thais don't trust their courts to deliver justice.

One aspect of Giles book ban has been overlooked - bookstore manager said she was waiting for peer review. I don't know if she seriously meant it, but it's not my fault that Giles "academic" work is sometimes percieved as "politic-propagandist" and needs double checking.

Thanks Sirpon for reminding - you can't get away with leading street protests and making public calls for arrest of G.W. Bush at the APEC meeting and demand "academic" status at the same time, not in Thailand. You might get an offer to replace some missing screws but not much trust or respect.

[sriracha john]

CTX-probing team said Thaksin family can reserve their right to go to court

The chairman of the subcommittee responsible for probing the procurement of the CTX-9000 bomb scanners and the baggage handling system, Mr. Amnuay Thanthara, said former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his family are able to reserve their right to go to court.

Earlier, Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin and his family insisted on their innocence and stated that they will not attend the hearings to listen to the charges.

Instead, they have reserved their right to go to court. He said Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin and his family’s decision will not conclude the investigation of this case since documents will be submitted to 38 suspects, and some of them are currently in Thailand while others are in foreign countries.

- ThaiNews

[ColPyat]

To answer your questions as you requested.

1. I support the junta because they overthrew a rightwing populist and parliamentary dictator who was seriously damaging the country. Whoever said the government is a right wing militia? Most newspaper columnists regard Surayut as well meaning but blundering. As for your allegations as to his involvement in Black May, where's the evidence as you like to say?

The Junta is even more right wing than Thaksin. It was a coup by the social conservatives. Proof of that are Gen. Sonthi's own interviews in which he consistenly said that he tries to instill more patriotism and nationalism in Thai people. This is considered "right wing". Please look up definitions and explanation on these terms.

According to the notes of Giles Ungpakorn's book, "A Coup for the Rich", General Surayud has given an interview in 'Thai Post', 22/6/2000, in which he admitted to have personally led a group of 16 soldiers into the Royal Hotel, in which those soldiers beat and kicked people.

General Surayud at that time was commander of the Special Warfare command, whose troops were definately involved in Black May.

2.Regarding the October people who joined Thaksin, as I mentioned some time ago in the few short years from TRT's foundation to last June, well before Thaksin's overthrow, over half of the original founders of TRT had left due to disillusionment with the great dictator. This is apart from well known figures outside who originally supported him.

Yes, many left, and many remained. There are huge conflicts between the different sides. But many of the very respectable oktober people and democracy activists have consistently refused to join either side. Personally, i do admire their consequence of thought and action.

3.If you could read Thai, and you really should learn to if you want to seriously debate Thai politics, then you would know that all policies of the present Thai government are freely debated in magazines and newspapers.

Not all aspects are freely debated. For that you have to go into the academic world, and even there some essential aspects are not publicly debated inside Thailand. I would advise you to have an open minded look about what is available. You may get a few uncomfortable surprises though.

Newspapers all over the world give anyhow mostly a very superficial idea on what happens.

[ColPyat]

There was no "due process of law" under Thaksin, and, to be honest, EVER in Thailand. In people's eyes the junta has delivered that "law", they don't really care if it was under "due process under Thai judicial system" or not, Thais don't trust their courts to deliver justice.

One aspect of Giles book ban has been overlooked - bookstore manager said she was waiting for peer review. I don't know if she seriously meant it, but it's not my fault that Giles "academic" work is sometimes percieved as "politic-propagandist" and needs double checking.

The book contains mostly already peer reviewed and published papers. The problem is indeed the few quotes of one particular book.

Thanks Sirpon for reminding - you can't get away with leading street protests and making public calls for arrest of G.W. Bush at the APEC meeting and demand "academic" status at the same time, not in Thailand. You might get an offer to replace some missing screws but not much trust or respect.

Giles does not "demand" academic status - he has it. He is Associate Professor at Chulalongkorn University, faculty of political science.

I don't see what forbids an academic to take part in demonstrations, and being involved in social activism. Academics are not monks, you know, and they can do with their time as they do see fit. Other academics take up lucrative consultancy positions for multinationals and governments. Nobody hinders them either.

Edited February 23, 2007 by ColPyat

[Plus]

Academics can, and I think should, be socially active, but they also should be prepared to face consiquences of their political activism.

I think it would be fair if sometimes you introduced Giles with "Giles, the guy who once wanted to arrest George Bush, now thinks that ..." instead of your customary "Giles Ungpakorn, academic from Chula, wrote...".

And I agree, Giles does not demand academic status, YOU always assign it to him. The rest of us can't care less as even I have assosiate professors among my friends.

[sriracha john]

BREAKING NEWS

Graft busters 'have goods on Thaksin'

The Assets Scrutiny Committee has evidence to convict ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra of corruption in the bomb scanner and the baggage handling system scandals at the new airport, Amnuay Thanthara, chairman of ASC's subcommittee responsible for the cases, claimed Friday. Noppadon Pattama, legal aide of Mr Thaksin, told reporters that the deposed premier was confident that he was innocent.

Mr Noppadon recently challenged the ASC to show what they claimed were evidence to convict Mr Thaksin, but Mr Amnuay refused to provide any details. "We won't reveal to him (Mr Noppadon) what we have," said Mr Amnuay. "But he will be startled once he knows what the facts are."

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=117011

[ColPyat]

Academics can, and I think should, be socially active, but they also should be prepared to face consiquences of their political activism.

I think it would be fair if sometimes you introduced Giles with "Giles, the guy who once wanted to arrest George Bush, now thinks that ..." instead of your customary "Giles Ungpakorn, academic from Chula, wrote...".

And I agree, Giles does not demand academic status, YOU always assign it to him. The rest of us can't care less as even I have assosiate professors among my friends.

What is your point? Lots of people have professors as friends and in their families. I am in no position to assign academic status to anyone. The University that hires a person in a teaching and/or researching position does that. He is an academic, that's it. What is your problem with the attribute academic even if you don't like his views? He still is an academic, very little influence on that status both of us have.

If that is such a problem with you, why don't you get in contact with Chula and try to get him fired.

And what's your point about Bush? I personally would be very much in favour to arrest Bush and put him on trial for starting wars based on lies, and costing up to two hundred thousand people their lives, even though this is rather idealistic and will most possibly never happen. There are many people who do share that view, and many Americans as well.

I really don't understand the point you are trying to make, or even if you try to make one apart from stating that you don't agree with Giles's Ungpakorn's political views and therefore refuse to accept anything he states, even if it is factual and neutral, and have that urge to go off on tangents, rants and diatribes as soon as his name is mentioned.

Edited February 23, 2007 by ColPyat

[Plus]

I don't refuse to accept anything written by Giles - I'm just saying that I take whatever he says with a grain of salt.

"Arrest Bush" story, if I remember it correctly, came during his "field trip" with his students, protesting against Iraq war. Good cause, but he looked like a nutcase, hopelessly lost in idealism.

These days there are tons and tons of information produced every day. I simply don't have time to read all I want, and even all I need, even professionally.

I HAVE TO be very choosy as I really can't afford wasting time on reading sources I don't trust. Giles fall into this category - interesting, but there were too many times he compromised himself. Maybe when (if) I have more time, which is never.

Colpyat also has to wait, btw.