Radical UK cleric guilty of supporting ISIL

[7by7]

9 hours ago, stander said:

Every preacher of Islamist hate, radical Islamic activist and every community that harbours or defends them must be sent back to the country they came from.

 

 

If not a British citizen then their leave to remain in the UK can and should be cancelled upon conviction.

 

If British by naturalisation, then their British citizenship can and should be removed upon conviction.

 

In both cases they can and should then be deported to their country of origin to serve their sentence and never allowed back into the UK.

 

But, Choudray was born in the UK to British citizen parents and so is British by birth, holding no other nationality.

 

[Lantern]

Sadly the prick was born in the UK.

 

Having said that

Can hardly put into words how happy I am by this news.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-37098751

One of the UK's most notorious radical clerics has been convicted of inviting others to support the so-called Islamic State, it can now be reported.
Police said Anjem Choudary, 49, had stayed "just within the law" for years, but was arrested in 2014 after pledging allegiance to the militant group.
Many people tried for serious terror offences were influenced by his lectures and speeches, police said.


Sentencing on Sept 6th. Really hope they throw the full 10 years at him.

 

He deserves more, but 10 is the max.

[7by7]

7 hours ago, mesterm said:

"Nearly a quarter (23%) supported the introduction of sharia law in some areas of Britain, and 39% agreed that wives should always obey their husbands. Nearly a third (31%) thought it was acceptable for a British Muslim man to have more than one wife. 52% agreed that homosexuality should be illegal."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/11/british-muslims-strong-sense-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law

 

Peace be upon them

 

I attempted to start a discussion on that survey and the Channel 4 programme it was commissioned for in the British Cultural Problem topic in Outside the Box. No one wanted to discuss it; probably because the whole survey and the actual programme itself (which I watched, did you?) did not paint as bleak a picture as some members here wished; in fact the opposite!

 

Here's another recent survey, commissioned by The Sun, which, as I'm sure you know, definitely cannot be labelled a 'wishy washy, PC, leftie, Muslim hugging' paper.

Quote

.....for most Muslims in the UK, 76%, their sense of British and Muslim identity are equally important to them. Only 3% feel that it “is not important for British Muslims to integrate into British society”........

........A clear majority of British Muslims, 71%, say they have “no sympathy with young Muslims who leave the UK to join fighters in Syria”. 5% had “a lot of sympathy” and 15% had “some sympathy”...........

........Interestingly, when we polled the remainder of the British population in March, 4% of non-Muslims expressed “a lot of sympathy with young Muslims who leave the UK to join fighters in Syria” and 9% expressed “some sympathy”, suggesting that attitudes held by the Muslim and non-Muslim populations are not that different.

Of course, having sympathy for young people who have been brainwashed by people like Choudray into joining an evil cause does not mean one has sympathy for that cause.

[mesterm]

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

I attempted to start a discussion on that survey and the Channel 4 programme it was commissioned for in the British Cultural Problem topic in Outside the Box. No one wanted to discuss it; probably because the whole survey and the actual programme itself (which I watched, did you?) did not paint as bleak a picture as some members here wished; in fact the opposite!

 

Here's another recent survey, commissioned by The Sun, which, as I'm sure you know, definitely cannot be labelled a 'wishy washy, PC, leftie, Muslim hugging' paper.

Of course, having sympathy for young people who have been brainwashed by people like Choudray into joining an evil cause does not mean one has sympathy for that cause.

 

We're talking about two different things however. I think it's safe to assume most Muslims worldwide are not interested in taking part or supporting acts of terror.

 

The stats in the Guardian article are more about socio-cultural beliefs and unrelated to violence directly. These are views that many Muslims agree with.

[7by7]

5 hours ago, Caps said:

Why has it taken decades?  The problem is they (the services) mess about too much.  I am sure not a lot of people would loose much sleep or even know anything about it if people like this disappeared one night!

 

The idea that the authorities should have the power to 'disappear' people is appalling; this is not the Soviet Union nor Nazi Germany!

[Andaman Al]

I hope Choudary gets a custodial sentence long enough to allow the USA to apply for successful extradition. In this interview, if you do not have time skip to 8 mins or so. The CNN reporter quite rightly says that Choudary has broken US ant-terrorist laws. This interview alone is enough to have him contemplate his holy mission for 50 years staring at the wall of his cell in a supermax, wondering when Bubba will come and visit again. Maybe they can put him in a cell with Captain Hook (less).

 

 

[7by7]

4 minutes ago, mesterm said:

 

We're talking about two different things however. I think it's safe to assume most Muslims worldwide are not interested in taking part or supporting acts of terror.

 

Agreed, though there are many here who believe otherwise.

 

Quote

The stats in the Guardian article are more about socio-cultural beliefs and unrelated to violence directly. These are views that many Muslims agree with.

 

One of the problems with this particular survey was that it concentrated almost entirely on areas with a conservative Muslim population.

 

A little bit of research will show you that a similar survey of conservative members of other religions, Christians and Jews in particular, would produce very similar results.

 

But this topic is about Choudray, so if you wish to discuss the survey further I suggest that we do so in the topic I mentioned earlier in order to avoid dragging this one too far off topic. Here is a link to the relevant post.

 

[7by7]

As anyone who lives in the UK will know, over the years the press in the UK has made much of Choudray, giving him and his views the publicity he so craved. This is particulalrly true of the three main right wing tabloids; the Mail, Express and Sun.

 

Why they decided to give him and his views this publicity is obvious; it sells papers!

 

What they haven't done anywhere near as much is publicise the views of the many British Muslims who have over the years publicly denounced Choudray; doing so wouldn't sell any papers.

 

Such condemnation has, though, appeared in the less sensationalist press; such as this Guardian article from 2010 by Mehdi Hasan Please Don't Listen to Anjem Choudray

 

[vogie]

16 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

As anyone who lives in the UK will know, over the years the press in the UK has made much of Choudray, giving him and his views the publicity he so craved. This is particulalrly true of the three main right wing tabloids; the Mail, Express and Sun.

 

Why they decided to give him and his views this publicity is obvious; it sells papers!

 

What they haven't done anywhere near as much is publicise the views of the many British Muslims who have over the years publicly denounced Choudray; doing so wouldn't sell any papers.

 

Such condemnation has, though, appeared in the less sensationalist press; such as this Guardian article from 2010 by Mehdi Hasan Please Don't Listen to Anjem Choudray

 

 

So his actions are attributed to the press, are you suggesting press censorship?

[7by7]

Of course his actions are not attributable to the press. I fail to see how you can possibly conclude that is what I meant; unless your English is lacking.

 

To make it easier for you, what I meant was that if the press had not given him, and others like Hamza, so much free publicity then his influence over the gullible would have been vastly diminished.

 

Likewise, if the press had given more publicity to those who opposed the extremist's views, then that would also have helped to diminished their influence.

 

I am not suggesting press censorship; I am suggesting press responsibility.

[Caps]

3 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

The idea that the authorities should have the power to 'disappear' people is appalling; this is not the Soviet Union nor Nazi Germany!

But its ok for him to spout radical rubbish in the country that is giving him money and a roof over his radical head, then cost us millions to try and get rid?

 

[vogie]

45 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Of course his actions are not attributable to the press. I fail to see how you can possibly conclude that is what I meant; unless your English is lacking.

 

To make it easier for you, what I meant was that if the press had not given him, and others like Hamza, so much free publicity then his influence over the gullible would have been vastly diminished.

 

Likewise, if the press had given more publicity to those who opposed the extremist's views, then that would also have helped to diminished their influence.

 

I am not suggesting press censorship; I am suggesting press responsibility.

 

45 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Of course his actions are not attributable to the press. I fail to see how you can possibly conclude that is what I meant; unless your English is lacking.

 

To make it easier for you, what I meant was that if the press had not given him, and others like Hamza, so much free publicity then his influence over the gullible would have been vastly diminished.

 

Likewise, if the press had given more publicity to those who opposed the extremist's views, then that would also have helped to diminished their influence.

 

I am not suggesting press censorship; I am suggesting press responsibility.

 

Are you incapable of answering a post without being supercillious and pompous?

[evadgib]

4 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

If not a British citizen then their leave to remain in the UK can and should be cancelled upon conviction.

 

If British by naturalisation, then their British citizenship can and should be removed upon conviction.

 

In both cases they can and should then be deported to their country of origin to serve their sentence and never allowed back into the UK.

 

But, Choudray was born in the UK to British citizen parents and so is British by birth, holding no other nationality.

 

 

There's always St Helena, South Georgia or similar where this scroat can be placed beyond reach.

[Norvid]

What is the penalty for hate preacher cleric Anjem Choudary accused of TREASON? 

 

Almost everywhere DEATH PENALTY. 

 

Locked him up for life, this sharia law preacher - Islamist - Muslim - Jihadist - CRIMINAL.

[stander]

4 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

If not a British citizen then their leave to remain in the UK can and should be cancelled upon conviction.

 

If British by naturalisation, then their British citizenship can and should be removed upon conviction.

 

In both cases they can and should then be deported to their country of origin to serve their sentence and never allowed back into the UK.

 

But, Choudray was born in the UK to British citizen parents and so is British by birth, holding no other nationality.

 

I don't consider him, his parents or their like to be British, they are Muslims born and/or brought up there.

[ilostmypassword]

28 minutes ago, Norvid said:

What is the penalty for hate preacher cleric Anjem Choudary accused of TREASON? 

 

Almost everywhere DEATH PENALTY. 

 

Locked him up for life, this sharia law preacher - Islamist - Muslim - Jihadist - CRIMINAL.

On the other hand, he does share your opinion of the Jews.

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, stander said:

I don't consider him, his parents or their like to be British, they are Muslims born and/or brought up there.

Point taken, Your Highness.

[GuestHouse]

9 hours ago, Grouse said:

Yes, this really is good news!

 

We need to make life increasingly less comfortable for muslims.

 

I suggest banning their religious schools, religious dress in public and halal butchery.

 

Any chance Grab can identify muslim cab drivers? Just a thought....

 

The guilty verdict against Choudary is indeed good news, I've suggested how it could be better news, and others have offered further improvements such as handing Choudary over to the US for incarceration in a US Supermax prison.  All of which I think are great ideas. He absolutely needs to be taken out of circulation for as long has he can spread his filth and he absolutely should not be provided with a captive audience for his filth while in prison. 

 

However, I draw the line at your suggestive collective punishment of all Muslims for the crimes Choudary has committed (and been found guilty of). 

 

If it were simply a bit of one handed typing on your behalf I would dismiss it on the logical grounds that it would be counter productive the to task we all face of creating a tolerant and inclusive society (the precise objectives Choudary and his followers  campaign and fight against). 

 

But there is a far more sinister aspect to your post, it boarders on exactly the same hate speech of which Choudary has been found guilty and constructs exactly the same framework of tolerance to hate speech that Choudary worked to construct and used to encourage others to commit and justify terrorism and hate crimes. 

[Kiwiken]

Anyone who promotes and propagates hate speech regardless of what their Religious or Ethnic background. Deserves the full measure of the Law. If He is born in the UK and legally a UK Citizen not much you can do but enforce the Prison sentence and monitor him. If he is an Immigrant then you are entitled to expel him as an undesirable Alien. 

[NongKhaiKid]

20 hours ago, i claudius said:

And while he has been spreading the hate he has been getting 25k a year in benefits  and while many Mosques banned him the BBC gave him air time , also his wife who also supports isis and makes hate speeches about Jews has only now been interviewed bu police , can you imagine how long it would have taken plod to call if i had made a hate speech about muslims?

Lets not be too critical of plod as they are obliged to do what their political masters dictate and we know how they operate especially when votes are at stake.

I remember seeing a photo of worshippers praying in the middle of a road neat Finsbury Park mosque with a couple of cops looking on and the question was why were they not taking action.

i would guarantee the beat cops had been briefed to leave well alone.

[derator01]

Please abide by forum rules and show respect to other members.

[GuestHouse]

22 hours ago, i claudius said:

And while he has been spreading the hate he has been getting 25k a year in benefits  and while many Mosques banned him the BBC gave him air time , also his wife who also supports isis and makes hate speeches about Jews has only now been interviewed bu police , can you imagine how long it would have taken plod to call if i had made a hate speech about muslims?

 

It was not jus the BBC that gave him air time, it was the whole spectrum of British media and news, including both left wing and right wing newspapers.

 

The impunity with which he danced around the law was in no small part due to his training has a lawyer. He knew precisely the lines he should not cross and left 'sufficient doubt' in most of what he said that he knew no conviction could be got against him. 

In the end of course he did blatantly cross the line and has been convicted for doing so. 

 

It's worth asking why he suddenly decided to hand the evidence to the police to prosecute him? Is a spell in prison something he desires as a badge of honour for his twisted mindset?

 

My personal belief is he is a represents a very real danger to our society, both society at home but also to Britain's place in the wider world where the UK must, by his actions, be regarded as a source of terrorists. 

 

Every effort needs to be made to isolate him from others in Prison so he cannot recruit others to his sick cause (we know prisons are recruiting grounds) and all avenues should be explored to hand him over to the US justice department for trial and incarceration in a US Supermax prison. 

 

He needs to be taken out of circulation for good. 

 

 

But we need a wider debate in society on rights and responsibilities, this has to include the responsibilities that come with the right to freedom of speech and freedom of association. 

 

Moreover we need a debate on the rights and responsibilities of our press and media - The whole spectrum of which has enabled Choudary to spread his filth, almost certainly because doing so sold copy, raised ratings, but we should not dismiss the notion that there are those who's motivation in helping spread the filth of Choudary's message do so for their own political aims. 

 

As many ask 'What if a white person had said these things?' 'What if I had said these things about a Muslim?'

 

The real question to ask is 'What if the government decides they are the arbiters of my rights to freedom of expression or association?'. 

 

Be assured, the response from government is going to be more control. - With a justification for more control handed to government on a plate we need to ask again, why Choudary was allowed to spew his hate for so long. 

 

 

 

[RuamRudy]

4 minutes ago, GuestHouse said:

Be assured, the response from government is going to be more control.

 

And the electorate is going to hand it over willingly - Teresa May's Snooper's Charter will now appear to be a credible and logical defense against the government / media created 'threat' to those who believe the Daily Mail headlines.

[i claudius]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

 

And the electorate is going to hand it over willingly - Teresa May's Snooper's Charter will now appear to be a credible and logical defense against the government / media created 'threat' to those who believe the Daily Mail headlines.

 

 

The problem is the "control" will be aimed at ordinary people ,not the scum like Chowdry who will just laugh at us , only minotitys get away with it all in the uk ,park on a yellow line and its a fine ,but if your a gypsy you can park up where you like and leave all the shit in the world and the left will protect you ,as they do shit like Chowdry and co .

[7by7]

6 hours ago, i claudius said:

 

 

The problem is the "control" will be aimed at ordinary people ,not the scum like Chowdry who will just laugh at us , only minotitys get away with it all in the uk ,park on a yellow line and its a fine ,but if your a gypsy you can park up where you like and leave all the shit in the world and the left will protect you ,as they do shit like Chowdry and co .

 

If  a Gypsy or anyone else parks on the public highway when it is illegal to so do then they are subject to the same penalties as everyone else. Camping off the highway is a civil matter between the landowner, the local council, an individual, whoever,  and the campers.

 

But what this has got to do with hate speech and incitement to commit acts of terrorism or the proposed 'snoopers charter' only you know.

[SgtRock]

Chowdhary was protected and given a platform for 20 + years because he was a '' Tout ''

 

He has either outlived his usefulness or he was close to being identified as a '' Tout ''

 

His sentence will include '' Special protective security measures '' at an additional cost of £ Millions to the taxpayer.

[7by7]

If what you say is true, which I doubt as the only claim this is so comes from ISIS, then surely he is entitled to protective custody at whatever cost?

 

(For those who don't know, 'tout' is Scottish slang for, among other things, police informer.)

[SgtRock]

Quote

If what you say is true, which I doubt as the only claim this is so comes from ISIS, then surely he is entitled to protective custody at whatever cost?

 

(For those who don't know, 'tout' is Scottish slang for, among other things, police informer.)

 

The only reason that I am responding to this is I would like to see a link to your ISIS claim

 

Scottish slang ? 

 

I would have thought that with your constant references to the IRA  you would know better.

 

Then again, someone who  talks to off duty soldiers in uniform, during the day in Aldershot, clearly knows nowhere near what he thinks he knows.

 

 

[7by7]

ISIS Claim: “British Preacher Anjem Choudary Is An Informer” Mind you, that is from Pamela Gellar, so obviously is not very reliable.

 

It seems her source was  ISIS Claims, “British Preacher Anjem Choudary Is An Informer” which comes from another hate site.

 

The claim is also made on various conspiracy theory sites.

 

But nothing from any media which could remotely be considered reliable; left, right or centre, whether one agreed with their politics or not.

 

I've provided the links you requested, now you do the same to your source of this claim that Choudary was an informer.

 

'Tout' is Scottish slang for informer; if you say it is common in Ireland (North, South or both?) as well, ok; you must be capable of the occasional accuracy.

 

 

[stander]

Hate preacher Anjem Choudhary to be caged ALONE so he can”t spread ISIS poison in prison.

https://reportuk.org/2016/08/18/hate-preacher-anjem-choudhary-to-be-caged-alone-so-he-cant-spread-isis-poison-in-prison/