Trump to black voters: 'What the hell do you have to lose?'

[Publicus]

 

Republican party controlled states have since the late 1990s been enacting voter exclusion laws targeted at Democratic party voters. The focus is racial due to the fact the laws exclusively and extensively impact blacks, and other minorities, only. Conversely, white suburban Republicans don't get carded at the polling station in any unusual ways.

 

The consequence is a long trail of cases in the federal courts striking down these anti-voter laws. In the few instances in which the law was not entirely thrown out by a United States court, the laws have been significantly rejected.

 

Here to date are some of this year's successful challenges in court of Republican laws to restrict voter access to the polling stations of the states....

 

 

Quote

 

In recent weeks, courts struck down North Carolina's voter identification law, Wisconsin's restrictions on early and absentee voting, and Kansas' proof of citizenship requirement.

A judge blocked North Dakota's voter ID law, and an appellate court sent Texas' voter ID law back to a lower court with instructions to devise a way to allow those lacking state-approved identification to be able to cast a ballot.

In Wisconsin, US District Judge James Peterson struck down a voting rights law, writing that the objective of the law was to "suppress the reliably Democratic vote of Milwaukee's African Americans." In North Carolina, US Appellate Judge Diana Motz wrote, "We cannot ignore the recent evidence that, because of race, the legislature enacted one of the largest restrictions of the franchise in modern North Carolina history."

"Judges are beginning to wake up and see what some of these enacted laws are doing," said law professor Theodore Shaw, who heads the Center for Civil Rights at the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill. "The lower courts and courts of appeals are finding that these voter ID provisions are discriminatory in either intent or effect, or both."

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/37062-courts-strike-down-voter-restriction-laws-that-target-black-people-with-surgical-precision

 

 

The Republican right knows what they are doing and why. So do we. So do the US courts which consistently throw out these laws which range from the restrictive to the effectively prohibitive. The laws are discriminatory on the face of it. Racial. Grandson of Jim Crow.

 

When Donald Trump poses the "what have you got to lose" nonsense he is in fact reflecting on himself. It broadcasts his desperation now that it is well established no respectable voter in the United States will vote for Trump, the Republican Party nominee who condemns entire groups of citizens because of race, religion, national origin, skin color, gender, military service and sacrifice, disability status and much much more that the crackpot right view as simply being politically correct liberalism that they like to think has no actual connection to everyday real life of ordinary citizens. 

Edited August 23, 2016 by Publicus
Typo

[Ulysses G.]

11 minutes ago, Publicus said:

 

The focus is racial due to the fact the laws exclusively and extensively impact blacks, and other minorities, only. Conversely, white suburban Republicans don't get carded at the polling station in any unusual ways.

 

 

 

Nonsense. White people have to show ID too. So does everyone else. On top of that, the majority of blacks support voters having to prove their identity. It is absolute BS that the laws only apply to minorities.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[Publicus]

Just now, Ulysses G. said:

 

 

White people have to show ID too. So does everyone else. On top of that, the majority of blacks support voters having to prove their identity. It is absolute BS that the laws only apply to minorities.

 

No unusual requirements for white voters.

 

The US courts for ten years of throwing out Republican enacted voter restriction laws against black citizens show that not only are you wrong, you are completely wrong and have your head in the sand.

 

Deny, deny, deny. Not going to vote Trump either eh.

 

Fail.

[Ulysses G.]

18 minutes ago, Publicus said:

 

No unusual requirements for white voters.

 

 

They have to show a photo ID just like anyone else. That is the law and most Americans - including blacks - support it.

 

Poor people have IDs just like the rest of us, even the poorest of the poor.  Otherwise they would not be eligible to qualify for the programs the left wants them qualified for and dependent on.

Try getting a job without ID. Or opening a bank account, cashing a check, traveling, renting a hotel room, even renting a video. Without an ID, life stops!  There is no malicious purpose for asking a person to show an ID and prove their identity prior to voting.  

Edited August 23, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[Publicus]

 

The right can't handle the truth....

 

Voter Suppression: How Bad? (Pretty Bad)

 

The last large-scale push to curb voting access was more than a century ago, after Reconstruction. Until now. 

Race has been a significant factor. In 2008, voter participation among African Americans and certain other groups surged. Then came backlash. The more a state saw increases in minority and low-income voter turnout, the more likely it was to push laws cutting back on voting rights, according to the University of Massachusetts study.

The Brennan Center for Justice likewise found that of the 11 states with the highest African American turnout in 2008, seven passed laws making it harder to vote. Of the 12 states with the largest Hispanic population growth in the 2010 Census, nine have new restrictions in place. And of the 15 states that used to be monitored closely under the Voting Rights Act because of a history of racial discrimination in elections, nine passed new restrictions. 

http://prospect.org/article/22-states-wave-new-voting-restrictions-threatens-shift-outcomes-tight-races

 

[Publicus]

12 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

 

They have to show a photo ID just like anyone else. That is the law and most Americans - including blacks - support it.

 

Nothing to do with the posts I am making.

 

You'd need to address the courts and their rulings that find intent or effect -- or both -- of racial discrimination in voter restriction laws. The laws are enacted by states controlled by the Republican party.

 

You'd need to address that. You can't challenge the courts because your side lost in every case over the past ten years.

[Linzz]

In my country  the general election vote is always on a weekend, specifically a named Saturday to provide ease of voting and has always been the case.. I believe that November 8th is a Tuesday. Does anyone know the  reasoning  for the US to hold the election  on a week day?

[Pimay1]

4 minutes ago, Linzz said:

In my country  the general election vote is always on a weekend, specifically a named Saturday to provide ease of voting and has always been the case.. I believe that November 8th is a Tuesday. Does anyone know the  reasoning  for the US to hold the election  on a week day?

Here is your answer.

 

http://www.infoplease.com/askeds/election-day-first-tuesday-november.html

 

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

 

They have to show a photo ID just like anyone else. That is the law and most Americans - including blacks - support it.

 

Poor people have IDs just like the rest of us, even the poorest of the poor.  Otherwise they would not be eligible to qualify for the programs the left wants them qualified for and dependent on.

Try getting a job without ID. Or opening a bank account, cashing a check, traveling, renting a hotel room, even renting a video. Without an ID, life stops!  There is no malicious purpose for asking a person to show an ID and prove their identity prior to voting.  

Except that study after study shows it disproportionately depresses the Democratic vote. And there is no good reason for it. Voter impersonation fraud is virtually an non-existent problem in the USA.

[Boon Mee]

Trump is everywhere these days and Hillary is nowhere to be seen...

 

 

 

 

He's only gotten better since the RNC.

BTW, 10,000 Turn Out to See Donald Trump in Austin – 35,000 Watch Rally Online!

 

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/08/wow-10000-turn-see-donald-trump-austin-35000-watch-rally-online/

Edited August 24, 2016 by Boon Mee

[Chicog]

6 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

 

Who is "they" - far left, liberal pressure groups?

 

 

No, the Federal Appeals court.

 

I would be in favour of Voter ID laws as long as they are not simply a voter suppression mechanism targeted against certain segments of the population that Republicans don't like.

 

E.g.:

 

Quote

The biggest win for voting rights advocates was in North Carolina, where a federal appeals court panel unanimously threw out not only the voter ID requirements, but numerous other provisions that the court said were enacted with the intent of making it harder for minorities to vote. The judges pointedly observed that Republican leaders drew up the new laws in North Carolina only after receiving data showing that African-American voters would be the most significantly and adversely affected. "We cannot ignore the record evidence that, because of race, the legislature enacted one of the largest restrictions of the franchise in modern North Carolina history," the panel wrote.

 

You must have your tongue firmly rooted in your cheek trying to defend this disgraceful and unconstitutional behaviour on the part of State GOP's.

[Ulysses G.]

10 minutes ago, Chicog said:

 

You must have your tongue firmly rooted in your cheek trying to defend this disgraceful and unconstitutional behaviour on the part of State GOP's.

 

Your tongue must be somewhere else. You can not ride a train without ID or rent a room. It is impossible to participate in society without one. 

 

• And, of course, there is the FACT that something like 80% of the American people support the neccesity of proof of identity to vote - including the majority of blacks. 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Your tongue must be somewhere else. You can not ride a train without ID or rent a room. It is impossible to participate in society without one. 

 

• And, of course, there is the FACT that something like 80% of the American people support the neccesity of proof of identity to vote - including the majority of blacks. 

 

 

The Challenge of Obtaining Voter Identification

"More than 1 million eligible voters in these states fall below the federal poverty line and live more than 10 miles from their nearest ID-issuing office open more than two days a week. ... Birth certificates can cost between $8 and $25. Marriage licenses, required for married women whose birth certificates include a maiden name, can cost between $8 and $20. By comparison, the notorious poll tax — outlawed during the civil rights era — cost $10.64 in current dollars. "

http://www.brennancenter.org/publication/challenge-obtaining-voter-identification

Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly.

"But many election experts say that the process for obtaining a photo ID can be far more difficult than it looks for hundreds of thousands of people across the country who do not have the required photo identification cards. Those most likely to be affected are elderly citizens, African Americans, Hispanics and low-income residents.

“A lot of people don’t realize what it takes to obtain an ID without the proper identification and papers,” said Abbie Kamin, a lawyer who has worked with the Campaign Legal Center to help Texans obtain the proper identification to vote."

 

The article goes on to cite how Texas allows handgun permits to be used as voter ID but not State University ID cards.  And there's a ton of other information about how states make it difficult and costly for the poor to get IDs.  In effect, it's a poll tax, and poll taxes were ruled to be unconstitutional for good reason.

[Ulysses G.]

21 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

 

Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly.

 

The poor and elderly HAVE to use them to get food stamps and cash benefits checks. What a load of nonsense. 

[Boon Mee]

52 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Your tongue must be somewhere else. You can not ride a train without ID or rent a room. It is impossible to participate in society without one. 

 

• And, of course, there is the FACT that something like 80% of the American people support the neccesity of proof of identity to vote - including the majority of blacks. 

 

 

You have to show a government issued ID to buy liquor, drive a vehicle, get on a plane, get a phone contract etc.

What the hell is wrong with not having to show an ID to vote! 

Edited August 24, 2016 by Boon Mee

[ilostmypassword]

8 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

The poor and elderly HAVE to use them to get food stamps and cash benefits checks. What a load of nonsense. 

So, what you're saying is that these organization which are devoted to studying this question are lying. Tell me, did you even bother to look up what are the ID requirements for food stamps?  I'll give you a chance to back down. If I were you, I'd take it.

[Publicus]

 

Republican made laws in states they control have been invalidated by the courts in state after state and in election after election for a decade.

 

One instruction from many courts in many cases is to establish alternative ways to vote that facilitate voting rather than limit voting,  restrict voting, or to stop it outright. 

 

The courts for a decade have found all the voter restriction laws they have reversed or nullified to be stacked against black voters primarily, but minorities, the poor and older Americans as well.

 

The first thing to do on arriving at the polling station is to verify that you are you. There are numerous ways to do this and the courts have said so numerous times in the numerous cases it has thrown out. Voting must be facilitated for all instead of being targeted for obstruction by Republican controlled states. 

[thaihome]

1 minute ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

The poor and elderly HAVE to use them to get food stamps and cash benefits checks. What a load of nonsense. 

 

So you think you have more knowledge on this then several federal judges who reviewed the details of both sides of the cases?

 

You seem to have the unsubstantiated belief that every poor or elderly person is receiving food stamps or benefit checks

 

Dispite growth in caseloads since the onset of the Great Recession, about 17 percent of those eligible go unserved and SNAP is missing nearly six in ten eligible elderly persons. SNAP policies that improve program access and increase staff capacity to process applications as well as SNAP outreach can help communities, families and businesses maximize federal dollars

http://frac.org/reports-and-resources/snapfood-stamp-monthly-participation-data/

 

Could it be that one reason these people don't get food stamps is they don't have the required ID or even the physical means such as transport to get it?

TH 

 

[Ulysses G.]

8 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

So, what you're saying is that these organization which are devoted to studying this question are lying. Tell me, did you even bother to look up what are the ID requirements for food stamps?  I'll give you a chance to back down. If I were you, I'd take it.

 

Some kind of ID is required for food stamps and the worker has to independently VERIFY the recipient's identity. The requirements are actually stricter than they are to vote.

[Ulysses G.]

8 hours ago, thaihome said:

 

You seem to have the unsubstantiated belief that every poor or elderly person is receiving food stamps or benefit checks.

 

 

Most poor people get food stamps and most elderly people get Social Security checks - if nothing else. They need ID for both.

[PTC]

8 hours ago, Boon Mee said:

You have to show a government issued ID to buy liquor, drive a vehicle, get on a plane, get a phone contract etc.

What the hell is wrong with not having to show an ID to vote! 

 

Always good to hear the vanilla folks share the black experience with us.

 

You tell 'em Boon Mee. All them Negro ghetto people wanting to fly to Miami Beach for the winter, sure they gotta have ID. Same as when they want their nightly bottle of Turps, they  gotta prove they are over 21. You know that if it was just white folks voting, then a 'man's word' is his bond right but when them others start wanting to vote, well, you just can't trust 'em, is all. Eh.

[thaihome]

22 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Most poor people get food stamps and most elderly people get Social Security checks - if nothing else. They need ID for both.

 

I give specific numbers and you respond with "most". Little point in continuing the discussion.  You are uninterested in anything that goes against your beliefs.

TH 

[ilostmypassword]

24 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Most poor people get food stamps and most elderly people get Social Security checks - if nothing else. They need ID for both.

First off, lots of older people got their social security cards in the era before picture ids were common.  So they don't to have one.  In addition, if you go to the social security here's what it says:

We can accept only certain documents as proof of identity. An acceptable document must be current (not expired) and show your name, identifying information (date of birth or age) and preferably a recent photograph. For example, as proof of identity Social Security must see your:

• U.S. driver's license;
• State-issued non-driver identification card; or
• U.S. passport.

If you do not have one of these specific documents or you cannot get a replacement for one of them within 10 days, we will ask to see other documents. Any documents submitted, including the following, must be current (not expired) and show your name, identifying information (date of birth or age) and preferably a recent photograph:

• Employee identification card;
• School identification card;
• Health insurance card (not a Medicare card); or
• U.S. military identification card.

[Ulysses G.]

Again these documents must be independently verified and they cannot cash the checks without a photo ID. You are denying the obvious. 

[ilostmypassword]

30 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Some kind of ID is required for food stamps and the worker has to independently VERIFY the recipient's identity. The requirements are actually stricter than they are to vote.

The question, though, is whether the same kind of ids that can be used to get food stamps will necessarily get you registered to vote.  What do you think the answer to that one is?

In addition, you don't seem to have a clue about the obstacles certain states create to make it difficult to get those ID's. 

What makes this truly bizarre though was your assertion that these organization that have done careful studies of this are lying.  You probably believe the election polls are being dishonestly manipulated, too.   

[Publicus]

During the years since the late 90's US federal judges have been throwing out the voter restriction laws of certain states, i.e., states controlled by Republicans. The number one reason by far that the laws have been voided is racial discrimination against black voters.

 

In most instances the federal courts have instructed the perp states to create alternatives to voter photo ID. The federal courts have recognised voter ID photos as valid in general and broadly, however, the courts consistently need to direct the violator Republican controlled states to use and or find alternatives that are viable and prudent, so that racial discrimination does not exist willfully and by design when black citizens seek to exercise the Constitutional franchise.

 

Yes, that's a lot to ask of Republicans and right wingers running the Confederate Republican party, but that is what these violators of the Constitution have had to do, and it is what the racial Republican party continues to have to do.

 

All of this despite the extant corrective body of law on this subject, which is both recent and historic.

[Ulysses G.]

11 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

The question, though, is whether the same kind of ids that can be used to get food stamps will necessarily get you registered to vote.  What do you think the answer to that one is?

 

 

The answer is yes, but identification other than photo ID has to be independently verified by an official - just like with food stamps.

[ilostmypassword]

14 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

Again these documents must be independently verified and they cannot cash the checks without a photo ID. You are denying the obvious. 

Cash the checks?  You must be a quite old but not old enough to get social security..  Ever hear of direct deposit? Virtually all Social Security payments are made that way and have been for quite a long while.

Edited August 24, 2016 by ilostmypassword

[Linzz]

5 minutes ago, Publicus said:

During the years since the late 90's US federal judges have been throwing out the voter restriction laws of certain states, i.e., states controlled by Republicans. The number one reason by far that the laws have been voided is racial discrimination against black voters.

 

In most instances the federal courts have instructed the perp states to create alternatives to voter photo ID. The federal courts have recognised voter ID photos as valid in general and broadly, however, the courts consistently need to direct the violator Republican controlled states to use and or find alternatives that are viable and prudent, so that racial discrimination does not exist willfully and by design when black citizens seek to exercise the Constitutional franchise.

 

Yes, that's a lot to ask of Republicans and right wingers running the Confederate Republican party, but that is what these violators of the Constitution have had to do, and it is what the racial Republican party continues to have to do.

 

All of this despite the extant corrective body of law on this subject, which is both recent and historic.

 

Confederate Republican party

Oh I understood that Republican party began as the party of Lincoln and it is the Democrat party who flew the Confederate flag. Is that not the case? Perhaps you jest. Nevertheless I believe the Reps were the party for blacks prior to the 1960's Civil Rights act which Hillary opposed with Barry Golwater 

[Publicus]

Just now, Linzz said:

 

Confederate Republican party

Oh I understood that Republican party began as the party of Lincoln and it is the Democrat party who flew the Confederate flag. Is that not the case? Perhaps you jest. Nevertheless I believe the Reps were the party for blacks prior to the 1960's Civil Rights act which Hillary opposed with Barry Golwater 

 

Federal courts have since the 1990s been throwing out racial discrimination laws enacted in Republican party controlled states only and which are consciously and willfully designed to reduce or prevent the participation of black citizens in exercising their franchise.

 

No political extremist can deny this, no one on the fringe cultural right can contest it, no racialist on the right can argue that federal courts have not done this, nor can you deny the federal courts do in fact continue to do this. Several such Republican laws have been tossed this year alone, a couple of 'em having been particularly onerous.

 

This year.