Tired Of Retirement - The Dream Versus The Reality

[dutch]

I've lived in SE Asia for over 10 years and just "retired" to Thailand six months ago. The only reason we are in Thailand is because my wife is Thai and we live close to her family (although her two children are in HK, we both have HK PR).

None of the previous posters refer to their wives' aspirations - I don't think that mine could settle well in my home country (UK) and I have no wish to go back there.

We have a few small farms which we cultivate with the family, having bought machinery this year. I believe that I am integrated as part of the family and I suppose this is part of my investment for the future, i.e. I will have people who care and will look after me in my even older age.

I have been amazed at how low my cost of living is - we are spending a fraction on day-to-day living costs that I budgeted, so I do not foresee financial worries, in any case, we could live off the land if necessary.

We have many future plans, e.g. building a house on our most beautiful farm to spend weekends, etc. and there is always something to do on the farms, although I do need more mental stimulation. However, I would not consider moving long term to anywhere else despite all the frustrations.

Hi Pnu,

Good to read that you are doing OK.

3 years ago we were chatting on TV while both still on the job

Obviously we both don't regret the retirement step.

[malcolminthemiddle]

In my opinion it's all about time, a resource which for all of us is limited. When we work we have effectively sold our time, when we retire time is our own, get into a routine doing the things you want to do. Once you have learnt to play, golf is a great way to prevent boredom creeping in.

[wamberal]

I cannot fault your math and I do agree with your conclusions. Just for the record I stated that I generate an income of 100k per month, not that I spend 100k per month!

I retired from paid work in 1996 (in Hong Kong). I started planning seriously for retirement about 5 years earlier, and went through all sorts of permutations as to how I could fund myself sensibly. I thought about annuities, off-shore investments, insurance bonds, you name it, I looked it.

At about the same time a colleague from the UK was also thinking about his retirement. He had a similar outlook to you. He used to say that he hated taking any risks, so he was definitely going to choose a safe, conservative, road for his retirement investments. I used to say to him that there is risk in any choice. In the case of term deposits, the risk is that we will outlive the capacity of our capital to fund our needs, because of the effects of cost inflation.

But there are recently instances where financial institutions have collapsed........notoriously Bank of Credit and Commerce, in the nineties, which took a large number of retirees down with it.

Eventually, as an Australian expatriate, I chose to put much of my money into a conservative portfolio of blue chip Australian stocks and shares. At the time I set it up, my portfolio was returning about $50k per annum. Now, because dividends have generally increased, it returns about $120k, and the tax payable is very low because of what is known as dividend imputation.

There is risk in every financial decision we make. Sometimes the risk of doing nothing, or of choosing a conservative option, is actually riskier than investing in growth assets. After all, what we are doing is purchasing an income stream.........about half of my income stream comes from bank dividends.....much more lucrative, and surely no riskier, than investing in bank term deposits.

Incidentally, I am not now, and have never been, a stockbroker! But I sometimes wonder how well my British colleague is living, compared with me.

[pnustedt]

Obviously we both don't regret the retirement step.

Hi Dutch

Good to hear from you too. Yes, I couldn't wish for a better life! Today (thanksgiving day) one of our cows gave birth to two calves, we just finished harvesting the rice and are commissioning our new baler - a lot of interest from the neighbours for us to make bales for them. Looks like I'm gonna be busy in my "retirement"!

[quadricorrelator]

I would guess that everyone reacts differently to retirement. It might be a stressful adjustment for some. Others love it.

I retired four years ago at age 46. I do a little work from time to time, but for the most part I pursue my own interests. I am happier and healthier since retirement. My mental state and physical state have improved. I am not saying it's great, but I am much better off than I was when I was working.

I find that it is easier for me to have more social contact in Thailand than in the U.S. At times, my life reminds me of summer camp. Everyone lives in a different cabin (apartment), there's a giant mess hall (the restaurants), its always hot, you can walk around in shorts, you bump into friends everywhere on the street, and it's just one big free period. It can be very nice.

The problems of money will depend on how much you have to begin with. You don't have to worry about exchange rates, investment, world economy, etc. if you have enough money. The more you have, the less skill and luck you need. If you had 100 million US, then you could put your money under the mattress and not worry about inflation, investment, etc. if you were drawing 100,000 baht per month. But, if you had 1 million US, and you wanted to live on 100,000 baht per month, then that would be much harder.

-q

[warriors]

Short answer re 5% or 6% or what ever if you take 1 million at 5% = $50000 say that was in KIWI $ so times it by 24 bhat to the $ = 100,000 bhat a month.

Ok the point is in 15 or 20 years time even if he's getting say only 40,000 baht a month he HAS STILL GOT THE 1MILLION to take lump sums out of yearly and I think even taking 60,000 a year is still another 16 years of dipping into his 1 million unless he wants to leave it to the rspca (pets home) so he has enough with out worrying re $.

But I am sure many on here do not and will need to plan correctly.

His problem the OP is he's board not too worried about his money.

Just my 2 stang worth

[curber]

Interesting topic....I am 57 and have been planning retirement for a few years now.I have been and still am a workaholic...the thought of just stopping work was a scary thought at best.What I have done over the past few years is wean myself off working...I used to work 6 days a week 12 to 16 hrs a day...this was great for the bank account but wore thin on my personal life..so rather than just quit I started working less....fewer hours daily and less days a week...I reduce my week by 1 day every year or two and extend my holiday period by 2 weeks each year.I now work 3 days a week 8 months a year.I think I will keep this schedule for a few years,for a couple reasons 1: I still enjoy working, especially at this pace...it is what I consider semi-retired,secondly I have a son that is learning the business and will take over when I leave....a few extra years guidance won`t hurt him By doing this I have been able to fill that idle time over a long period rather than all at once.I now actually have hobbies and spend time with friends and family.My wife and I bought a place in Hua Hin last year and joined a local golf course,we are staying there for 3 1/2 months this year,eventually we will stay 6 months in Thailand 6 months in Canada.I didn`t see Thailand 20 years ago so can`t comment on the old days but what I see there now is just fine.I`m sure development has scarred the pristine beaches and private hideaways...but with the world population expanding those place are getting harder to find anywhere.So for me Thailand and retirement are a good match

[Francis Maube]

It looks like a planning issue. Retiring young and healthy has a nice ring but unless you plan for an active life, boredom will inevitably set in.

I retired at 47, only 2 years ago and I am forcing myself to take a day off a week and it is a lot more fun than the office.

[Boxer]

I may have missed it in the thread but has anyone raised the point about returning to work at home in UK or USA at the age of 52 plus? For some professions it can be easy but many it is hard once your out of the rate race to get back in at the same or similar level mentally, responsibility or earnings wise.

I am out of the race and have been for 10 years now at 65 still dont have enough time to do what I want in Pattaya each day but the pace of life is most suitable.

[chiang mai]

Short answer re 5% or 6% or what ever if you take 1 million at 5% = $50000 say that was in KIWI $ so times it by 24 bhat to the $ = 100,000 bhat a month.

Ok the point is in 15 or 20 years time even if he's getting say only 40,000 baht a month he HAS STILL GOT THE 1MILLION to take lump sums out of yearly and I think even taking 60,000 a year is still another 16 years of dipping into his 1 million unless he wants to leave it to the rspca (pets home) so he has enough with out worrying re $.

But I am sure many on here do not and will need to plan correctly.

His problem the OP is he's board not too worried about his money.

Just my 2 stang worth

And that is absolutely the case, well done. I think all the answers are in the various comments received so thank you everyone for your comments. It's really not a money issue although anyone with half a brain has to keep an eye on the medium to long term - the piece about the erosion of savings due to inflation is really a red herring as you point out correctly. The real key is as someone pointed out earlier that creative people are driven and retirement is perhaps not a one size fits all.

[mijan24]

Wow, these are some well thought out reasons for retiring/not retiring/un-retiring. You posters so far are a bright bunch of people whose talents and knowledge are sorely needed in the working (consulting) world.

Scott good points of course your "You posters so far" must have attracted the constant knockers out of bed see 11 & 12.

I agree with Scott that there were some well thought out fors and againsts which made some good sound reading - It's is such a shame that Thailand hasn't seemed fit to tap into the untold experience sitting on its door step. :jap

Edited November 26, 2006 by mijan24

[pokoal2000]

You are all lucky bastards- well not lucky, very sensible to have a money for your retirement. I am here in Thailand, working as a teacher for peanuts. I had money in UK, lost it, got divorced twice, lost a good business, building computers and then spend six years backpacking around the World, then spend seven years teaching in the Czech Republic I love Thailand , would love to stay, but have no pension ( I am 58) and no chance of a good pension from UK, because I have not paid enough national contribution in my life. God knows how I am going to manage when I am old and decrepit. I wish I had your worries.

Alex

[terry57]

i love thailand and will be retiring here with ample money and i expect to have a good life.

ive got 19 years experience with the los.

there's one thing i know about life and that is you never know what will happen in the future or how your feeling will change.

im having a bet both ways as if i find ive made a mistake i will bolt back to farang land.

moral of the story is:

always retain assets and property outside los so you can do a bolt.

[DogNo1]

I'm thinking of retiring in about three years when I turn 67. I plan to spend half the time in Tokyo where I have permanent residence and the rest of the time somewhere it's warm in the winter - probably Thailand. I've been visiting Thailand for about 40 years now and have seem it become more crowded and expensive but also more sophisticated and interesting. I spent a year in Chiang Mai back in 1983 and was quite bored. It seems to be a more interesting place now. I'm not sure what I'll do when I retire but I really want it to be optional so that I can not do things when I don't want to. For those calculating how long their investments will last if they withdraw more than they're earning on their investments per year, there are lots of retirement calculators on the Internet. One I use is on the Motley Fool's Rule Your Retirement website. There are lots of free ones too. I have about 50% of my savings in rock-solid investments drawing 5% or a little more and the rest I have in a diversified portfolio of ETFs. Some financial gurus recommend having all of your money in stocks to make it last, but I went through losing 70% on some of my funds in 2000-2001 so I just can't accept too much risk. You never know what will happen in the world situation. If the Straits of Hormuz were to be blockaded for any reason, oil would go through the roof and the price of stocks would fall. How dramatically depends on how bad the situation might be.

Anyway, I think I will be in good shape financially when I retire. Then my objective will be staying healthy to enjoy it. Despite Thailand's recent financial success and its society becoming more money-driven, I still find the country attractive.

Thanks for all of the interesting observations about retirement.

[wamberal]

Short answer re 5% or 6% or what ever if you take 1 million at 5% = $50000 say that was in KIWI $ so times it by 24 bhat to the $ = 100,000 bhat a month.

Ok the point is in 15 or 20 years time even if he's getting say only 40,000 baht a month he HAS STILL GOT THE 1MILLION to take lump sums out of yearly and I think even taking 60,000 a year is still another 16 years of dipping into his 1 million unless he wants to leave it to the rspca (pets home) so he has enough with out worrying re $.

But I am sure many on here do not and will need to plan correctly.

His problem the OP is he's board not too worried about his money.

Just my 2 stang worth

And that is absolutely the case, well done. I think all the answers are in the various comments received so thank you everyone for your comments. It's really not a money issue although anyone with half a brain has to keep an eye on the medium to long term - the piece about the erosion of savings due to inflation is really a red herring as you point out correctly. The real key is as someone pointed out earlier that creative people are driven and retirement is perhaps not a one size fits all.

Errrr.......once you start to dip into your capital, the interest you receive declines even faster, doesn't it?

Of course it is true that if you have enough capital you can spend as much as you like. But most people don't, which is why most people need to have an element of growth in their investments, especially if they are retiring young.

I fail to see how financial planning before retirement is a "red herring". The saddest thing that I can imagine is to be skint and old. If you look around, you will see quite a few sad, old, retirees, who have to count every satang.

A lot of this is common-sense. But, as the man said, "common-sense ain't so common".

[chiang mai]

Short answer re 5% or 6% or what ever if you take 1 million at 5% = $50000 say that was in KIWI $ so times it by 24 bhat to the $ = 100,000 bhat a month.

Ok the point is in 15 or 20 years time even if he's getting say only 40,000 baht a month he HAS STILL GOT THE 1MILLION to take lump sums out of yearly and I think even taking 60,000 a year is still another 16 years of dipping into his 1 million unless he wants to leave it to the rspca (pets home) so he has enough with out worrying re $.

But I am sure many on here do not and will need to plan correctly.

His problem the OP is he's board not too worried about his money.

Just my 2 stang worth

And that is absolutely the case, well done. I think all the answers are in the various comments received so thank you everyone for your comments. It's really not a money issue although anyone with half a brain has to keep an eye on the medium to long term - the piece about the erosion of savings due to inflation is really a red herring as you point out correctly. The real key is as someone pointed out earlier that creative people are driven and retirement is perhaps not a one size fits all.

Errrr.......once you start to dip into your capital, the interest you receive declines even faster, doesn't it?

Of course it is true that if you have enough capital you can spend as much as you like. But most people don't, which is why most people need to have an element of growth in their investments, especially if they are retiring young.

I fail to see how financial planning before retirement is a "red herring". The saddest thing that I can imagine is to be skint and old. If you look around, you will see quite a few sad, old, retirees, who have to count every satang.

A lot of this is common-sense. But, as the man said, "common-sense ain't so common".

Sorry my answer was relevant to my particular circumstances onlt - you are absolutely correct that financial planning for retirement is essential. In my case I am 56 and GENERATE, not spend, 100,000 baht month income. IF I did spend at that rate each month for the next 20 years, allowing for a 4% inflation increase each year I would have half my original capital left plus the equity value in my home. Statistically I could, on average live to age 76 and since I do not have anyone I wish to leave my money to that seems to work out well.

[wamberal]

Chiang Mai,

Actually, I have a financial planning problem myself. As I indicated, my wife and my assets are in a mixture of shares and managed funds (with some cash in a cash management account). My wife is 18 years younger than me, and my challenge will be to simplify the portfolio at the right time, so that she is left with a manageable set of assets.

Maybe I will have a look at annuities at the appropriate time. One of the problems is that she claims that she does not ever want to return to Thailand to live, although she has three younger, unmarried, sisters, as well as both parents still alive.

If I knew for sure what she would do after I fall off the peg (not for a number of years yet, I hope), it would make planning easier. But she doesn't like to talk about it.

At the end of the day, she will probably end up in a situation like yours, with more than enough capital so that it doesn't matter much what she does.

[ThaiPauly]

Chiang Mai,

I came across this thread while searching for something else.

Now a year has gone by and you have re-located to Phuket, not back to good 'ole Blighty.

What made you change you mind and stay...the Pies?

Well at least its a business, I really do appreciate where you were coming from though.

I am just a couple of years younger than you and am BORED senseless. I have become a "Yardarm" sort of guy, you know the one that will drink as soon as the sun goes down...back home I never had THAT much time, there was always so much to do...when I look back it amazes me how I fitted everything I was doing into my life...I would run my biz, shop, go to the gym, attend functions, dine out, do my laundry, clean my pad...how on earth did I do that...now 3 years on its an effort to get up, let alone WORK

I had a very sucessful biz in the UK , but gave it all up for love.......now I am still in love, tried a couple of ventures here which were not sucessful and thats difficult to take when your whole life's work in your country of origin has been worthwhile and lucrative.

So I am stuck...there is NOTHING in LOS that I can do to make money, somebody is always trying to convince me to invest in this and that but I am very wary and always er on the side of caution.

I LOVE LOS....but I am not content with my life, I can't go back , well not for another 2 years for tax reasons, but even then my Wife would find it far more difficult to settle there than I did here.

I never planned to retire, I had irons in the fire from day 1 but they came to nothing and I was left disappointed and dissalusioned.

We have had two restaurants...both of which burned , but we knew NOTHING about catering...I cant even cook !! My meals in the UK were all microwaved or eaten out.

SO......what next?..I really dont know, but I have enough money to last the rest of my days being bored, whatever happens to the economy, I still have real estate in the UK, which produces a steady flow of cash from rental, plus a stash tied up in bonds, plus 6 pensions that will kick in anytime I want them after I am 60.

Like you...I miss the every day drama of business...the Company I started and sold is now up for sale again...its tempting to buy it back, but that would mean leaving LOS and I dont want to do that. Many people earn a living from the internet, but I missed out there...I used to employ computer experts, I just used to concentrate on my clients and get someone else to do all my computer work...well I can do e-mails and letters but thats about it. I have a computer teacher here in CM but I still have trouble grasping the basics.

Anyway..any advice from anyone who has been in a similar position and got themselves out of it would be appreciated.

How did you get out of this rut?

I am not saying my life now is shit...far from it...but something BIG is mising, its like a great void..and I have to fill it with something productive.

THE END

TP

[lazeeboy]

Chiang Mai,

I came across this thread while searching for something else.

Now a year has gone by and you have re-located to Phuket, not back to good 'ole Blighty.

What made you change you mind and stay...the Pies?

Well at least its a business, I really do appreciate where you were coming from though.

I am just a couple of years younger than you and am BORED senseless. I have become a "Yardarm" sort of guy, you know the one that will drink as soon as the sun goes down...back home I never had THAT much time, there was always so much to do...when I look back it amazes me how I fitted everything I was doing into my life...I would run my biz, shop, go to the gym, attend functions, dine out, do my laundry, clean my pad...how on earth did I do that...now 3 years on its an effort to get up, let alone WORK

I had a very sucessful biz in the UK , but gave it all up for love.......now I am still in love, tried a couple of ventures here which were not sucessful and thats difficult to take when your whole life's work in your country of origin has been worthwhile and lucrative.

So I am stuck...there is NOTHING in LOS that I can do to make money, somebody is always trying to convince me to invest in this and that but I am very wary and always er on the side of caution.

I LOVE LOS....but I am not content with my life, I can't go back , well not for another 2 years for tax reasons, but even then my Wife would find it far more difficult to settle there than I did here.

I never planned to retire, I had irons in the fire from day 1 but they came to nothing and I was left disappointed and dissalusioned.

We have had two restaurants...both of which burned , but we knew NOTHING about catering...I cant even cook !! My meals in the UK were all microwaved or eaten out.

SO......what next?..I really dont know, but I have enough money to last the rest of my days being bored, whatever happens to the economy, I still have real estate in the UK, which produces a steady flow of cash from rental, plus a stash tied up in bonds, plus 6 pensions that will kick in anytime I want them after I am 60.

Like you...I miss the every day drama of business...the Company I started and sold is now up for sale again...its tempting to buy it back, but that would mean leaving LOS and I dont want to do that. Many people earn a living from the internet, but I missed out there...I used to employ computer experts, I just used to concentrate on my clients and get someone else to do all my computer work...well I can do e-mails and letters but thats about it. I have a computer teacher here in CM but I still have trouble grasping the basics.

Anyway..any advice from anyone who has been in a similar position and got themselves out of it would be appreciated.

How did you get out of this rut?

I am not saying my life now is shit...far from it...but something BIG is mising, its like a great void..and I have to fill it with something productive.

THE END

TP

apart from the property in the uk this post could of been about my life ,spot on,scary .........

[farang prince]

I see a business opportunity...creating a business that will keep retired farangs mentally and physically busy so they don't go stir crazy in LOS.

[Gary A]

WORK! What a disgusting word. I spent the vast majority of my life HAVING to do that. Now that I'm finished I enjoy every day regardless of what I am doing. I must admit that I'm a country boy and was getting bored in Jomtien. I missed having a workshop and a garden. I now live up country and have the shop, land and even a tractor. I do what I want when I want and if I have more weeds than anything else, that's fine with me. The past three years of my life up country have been the best of my life. I'm content. It's great to go to bed whenever I like and get up whenever I feel like getting up. The only bad part is that time really flies.

[tijnebijn]

WORK! What a disgusting word. I spent the vast majority of my life HAVING to do that. Now that I'm finished I enjoy every day regardless of what I am doing. I must admit that I'm a country boy and was getting bored in Jomtien. I missed having a workshop and a garden. I now live up country and have the shop, land and even a tractor. I do what I want when I want and if I have more weeds than anything else, that's fine with me. The past three years of my life up country have been the best of my life. I'm content. It's great to go to bed whenever I like and get up whenever I feel like getting up. The only bad part is that time really flies.

Thats so true , time really seems to go faster 4 times then back home is it ?

Could be a good topic on itself .

[blaze]

I see a business opportunity...creating a business that will keep retired farangs mentally and physically busy so they don't go stir crazy in LOS.

Then they haven't retired. The've just changed distractions.

All our youth we look forward. And for many in old age, their is only looking backward. The difficulty is learning how to live. And that means cultivating the arts of appreciation and contemplation. Both of which will put you face to face with the whole 'meaning of life' thing.

so many try to avoid the void- they get another job- an earing- a 'partner'- anything to avoid being old. But you are old. You can't work forever- you can't volunteer forever- sooner or later- you will have to deal with the fact that you are here. And only now.

If you see the void- don't be afraid- dive in- and don't try to float above- go under those black waters- and you'll come out beneath the stormy waves- on another shore- with no need for a hole in one, another conquest in the sack (viagra fueled), pats on the back, paychecks, ---- or dreams.

Above all- lose your dreams.

Then you have no choice but---- to live.

And for most of us- it is the first time.

Edited November 10, 2007 by blaze

[abdulrahman]

I see a business opportunity...creating a business that will keep retired farangs mentally and physically busy so they don't go stir crazy in LOS.

Then they haven't retired. The've just changed distractions.

All our youth we look forward. And for many in old age, their is only looking backward. The difficulty is learning how to live. And that means cultivating the arts of appreciation and contemplation. Both of which will put you face to face with the whole 'meaning of life' thing.

so many try to avoid the void- they get another job- an earing- a 'partner'- anything to avoid being old. But you are old. You can't work forever- you can't volunteer forever- sooner or later- you will have to deal with the fact that you are here. And only now.

If you see the void- don't be afraid- dive in- and don't try to float above- go under those black waters- and you'll come out beneath the stormy waves- on another shore- with no need for a hole in one, another conquest in the sack (viagra fueled), pats on the back, paychecks, ---- or dreams.

Above all- lose your dreams.

Then you have no choice but---- to live.

And for most of us- it is the first time.

Well said, Socrates! (actually,I agree)

[Eneukman]

I resigned from my job at the age of 48, temped for a year and a bit, before moving to Thailand a week after my 50th birthday and 2 years on, I have no regrets whatsoever.

My job was driving me demented. I had high blood pressure (200/150 when diagnosed - and I had to ask the stupid <deleted> of a doctor to check it!!!!!).

Now, my blood pressure is fully under control. I try to swim for an hour or so 4 or 5 mornings each week and as a result I am much fitter than before I retired. Then there are the other benefits for a single guy living in Pattaya.

A large part of my income comes from stock market investments in the UK, which I control myself though here I do rely to a large extent on Investors' Chronicle magazine and web-site.

My normal retirement age was 60, but with the stress that went with the job, was there any guarantee that I would live to see it? I know of far too many people who have failed to reach retirement age or who have died within a year or two of retiring. A former colleague worked until he was 60 and then a few monhs later died from a heart attack a matter of hours after his daughter got married.

Alan

[lannarebirth]

I see a business opportunity...creating a business that will keep retired farangs mentally and physically busy so they don't go stir crazy in LOS.

Then they haven't retired. The've just changed distractions.

All our youth we look forward. And for many in old age, their is only looking backward. The difficulty is learning how to live. And that means cultivating the arts of appreciation and contemplation. Both of which will put you face to face with the whole 'meaning of life' thing.

so many try to avoid the void- they get another job- an earing- a 'partner'- anything to avoid being old. But you are old. You can't work forever- you can't volunteer forever- sooner or later- you will have to deal with the fact that you are here. And only now.

If you see the void- don't be afraid- dive in- and don't try to float above- go under those black waters- and you'll come out beneath the stormy waves- on another shore- with no need for a hole in one, another conquest in the sack (viagra fueled), pats on the back, paychecks, ---- or dreams.

Above all- lose your dreams.

Then you have no choice but---- to live.

And for most of us- it is the first time.

Beautifully eloquent.

[Naam]

at the end of this month it will be 18 years that i retired at the 'tender' age of 46 and my only regret is not having retired a few years earlier and enjoy the freedom which i'm enjoying since november 1989.

that some retirees are bored might be the case. but for most retirees i know -and it applies to me too- the days are not long enough to do each and everything which is on the agenda. in my home country Germany we have a saying "school children and retirees have no time left to be bored". how true!

[TaoNow]

Only one poster (Firefan) has mentioned language. How many of you would retire to, say, Germany if you didn't speak German, you didn't understand German and you couldn't read German? OP doesn't say whether he can communicate well in Thai but I imagine that anyplace in the world could be very boring if you don't know the local language. Before writing off a place as boring, first learn the language so you can tell what is really going on. That way, at least you can make an informed decision.

[qwertz]

Only one poster (Firefan) has mentioned language. How many of you would retire to, say, Germany if you didn't speak German, you didn't understand German and you couldn't read German? OP doesn't say whether he can communicate well in Thai but I imagine that anyplace in the world could be very boring if you don't know the local language. Before writing off a place as boring, first learn the language so you can tell what is really going on. That way, at least you can make an informed decision.

At last, a thread with some relevance to the expat life.

I retired once at age 41 after divorcing my first wife.

It lasted 11 years before my money dried up after spending most of it in a vain attempt to keep my second wife alive.

I returned to Europe (I'm a Brit) and after a complicated chain of events and romances I landed in a recently reunited Germany, learned the language and found another life and another wife in the old GDR.

I teach there, translating and interpreting to advanced students. None of this was planned, it just happened.

I'm now 65 and entitled to a pension from the UK. Since my German wife died in 2003, I'm free to do anything I want but I don't see full retirement suiting me.

However, if I tighten my belt a little, I could still continue to work part time and spend my winters somewhere warm.

My experience of LOS and expats tells me that too many men retire there without a plan for occupying their time. We are not Thais and never will be: we need a lot more intellectual stimulation than the average Thai man and we can't get that from the bar life alone.

Boredom is your real enemy there, that's why I intend to keep a foothold in Germany, where I'm not viewed as a farang and can still earn, and sojourn in LOS during the German winter.

[chicowoodduck]

In my opinion it's all about time, a resource which for all of us is limited. When we work we have effectively sold our time, when we retire time is our own, get into a routine doing the things you want to do. Once you have learnt to play, golf is a great way to prevent boredom creeping in.

I retired four years ago at 55 with the motto, "Don't call me retired, I'll call you!" After 30+ years of playing "boss," I happily found out that just "playing" can be a full time job too! ( and a whole lot more enjoyable). I used to hate getting up early everyday and now I find that it's a gift! I can ease on into each day and not have to worry about sticking to any set schedule. I make the rules, break the rules and make my bed each day with the hope I can get a "re-do" when the sun comes up for another.