Tired Of Retirement - The Dream Versus The Reality

[Mobi]

I guess it very much depends on the work you were doing, and how much you enjoyed it, before retiring, as to whether you might hanker after going back to it.

I never really enjoyed my work, although I did get huge adrenaline kicks, which became addictive, in my daily wheelings and dealings at the highest levels of international finance.

I retired when i was 54, as, like other posters, I might well not have reached 60 if I carried on the way I was going.

My first 2 years or so of my retirement were spent in the UK and the past 5 years in Thailand.

I really believe that it is possible find enough to keep me busy, intellectually challenged and personally fulfilled without having to resort to full time employment.

My problem, is self discipline. After a lifetime of having to use all my will power to follow rigorous work and family schedules (I typically put in a 12 hour day at the office), I now find it extremely difficult to get my arse in gear and do all these things that I think I aught to be doing.

I spend far too much time at this computer and its time I started to widen my horizons and put more structure into my life. Like most things that are worthwhile, I reckon you have to work at them.

[Gary A]

Only one poster (Firefan) has mentioned language. How many of you would retire to, say, Germany if you didn't speak German, you didn't understand German and you couldn't read German? OP doesn't say whether he can communicate well in Thai but I imagine that anyplace in the world could be very boring if you don't know the local language. Before writing off a place as boring, first learn the language so you can tell what is really going on. That way, at least you can make an informed decision.

I speak enough Thai to get by and have no interest in becoming fluent. On occasion, even when I do understand I will say that I DON'T understand. I'm just a crotchety old fart now and simply don't want to be bothered. My wife provides more conversation than I require so why would I want to have conversations with the locals?

[actiondell4]

There is a guy at my workplace,Government Department,in Sydney,Australia who is 64yo.

His wife died 7 years ago when he was 57yo and he has been going to Thailand for holidays ever since.

He was planning to retire at last year but didnt.

He took his long service leave of 12 months when he was 63yo ,as he has been working for the same dept for over 40 years.

He was planning on retiring after taking his 12 months long service leave,anyway he happily goes away and off to his favourite place of Pattaya,we didnt expect him back and we had a retirement party.

After 12 months he s back and deciding not to retire !

Working with him last week after him being back at work for about 7 months he told me missed the backyard,the garden,he got very bored etc.

He prefers to work and travel the world,he refuses to work any overtime or any extra overtime days, and we work standard 19 day months,so he goes to Thailand for 7 nights etc and then to Singapore the next month for 7 or 8 nights etc and next year plans to travel the middle east.

He says he would rather work ,and travel every month and make trips to thailand than live there.

He lives by himself in his own home in Sydney,but as i told him last week,if i was in his age i would sell the house,take my superanuation and retire to thailand,i wouldnt care about travelling the world.I really dont understand people like him who at 64yo wants to keep coming to work,he doesnt work hard mind you,but is very fit as he rides a bike apparently everyday.

I dont know the full story of what happened in pattaya on his 12 months but he was as excited about retiring there as he previously was.

I dont understand oldies such as him in my workplace.I think he likes coming to work just to socialise? or is it greed for money?

He had his chance of 12 months in pattaya and he didnt like it,i would love to trade positions but being 20 years younger than him i have to wait my turn.

I asked him last week when he was going to retire and he told me he realised he still had a lot to do such as travel the world,renovate his house etc and wants to do this before he retires, and probaly will retire in 5 years when his 70yo but might not.

He justs like to work his 8 hour a day 19 day months without any extra overtime days and then takes a few days off on accrued leave to travel for 5 or 7 days.

He actually took off to bangkok for 4 nights.

Ok he has the money to burn,i dont but what is his point,there is a lot more in my government dept that are older than him,why,why make your kids rich?

Edited November 11, 2007 by actiondell4

[wamberal]

A couple of examples of the benefits of investing in the stock market, and living on dividends.

I bought 15,000 National Australia Bank (cost about AUD160k all up) and 5000 St George Bank (cost about AUD 45k). After reinvesting dividends for the last few years before retirement, these shares alone generate about AUD 50k in dividends annually, which is a return on my original capital of about 24%.

This is only a slice of my portfolio, which also contains BHP, Santos, Woolworths, and several other blue-chips (and not so blue-chips - of course I have also bought some lemons along the way).

We also have some managed funds, and some listed investment companies, to spread the risk, and to make it easier for my wife to handle the portfolio when I cark it.

I do not care whether the value of the underlying shares goes up, or down, as long as they keep paying dividends. And, over time, dividends invariably rise.

I do not envy those of you who are living from fixed interest investments one little bit, because I know that our dividend stream will be better in ten years' time, no doubt at all.

Edited November 11, 2007 by wamberal

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

It was on my 50th birthday, January 1984 that I retired. My only regret is I didn't do it sooner. In reality I didn't actually retire but decided to sell my share of the business and take some time off for health reasons. The wife (9 years younger than me) and I decided at the pace I was going I wouldn't be around that long. So we decided to take a break and travel around the world a bit. After 2 years of seeing the world we decided that was much more fun than working so we sold our home in the US and continued traveling. After three more years of traveling full time we bought 6 acres in Australia and spent 6months a year there and six months traveling. This went on for 3 more years. One day we woke up in Belize and said feels like we've been here before.

Have lived in LOS for the past year and do love it here. My wife and I are both avid readers and have hobbys to keep us occupied. We have been together 24/7 for 32 years so that presented no problem. Very rarely get bored, and time goes by very fast. Money has not been a problem for us and we have more now than we did when we retired 23 years ago.

From my point of view I couldn't be happier. My wife feels the same way

[ThaiPauly]

Actiondell's is a very intereseting post, it just goes to show that retirement is not for everyone. The guy you talk about seems to have a cotented and fullfilled life without feeling the need to retire.

I personally think that there is a big difference for those that planned their retirement and those that did not.

When I came here I had no plans to retire and thought I would just start a New Company and be off again. However as we all know that is not exactly how it works out here, what with all the legal stuff and the fact that whatever you do there are 100 others doing the same thing.

The fisrt business opportunity that presented itself to me was the chance to run a franchise of a well known company here, but when I looked at the books the guy was slaving his butt off to make 1m baht a year....now I am not trying to be patronising ...but that is 15k sterling a year...I was paying a 19 year old admin assistant that much back home, and having sold up I had plenty of money and thought..."whats the point in getting out of bed to make that much?"

I did try a couple of businesses as I said in my last post , but they were not asociated with my line of work and were ultimatley unsuccessful, but it was worth a try. I brought them really to give my wife something to do not me anyway, but she was working her butt off to stand still, so after 6 months of spending 5 nights a week at home alone ...bored....I decided to offload it so at least we will have time together, after all I gave up everything back home to be with her.

So here I am ..either out of work or retired, I missd out on the "dream" of retiement because it has been thrust upon me rarther than me choosing it.

I think that makes the difference.

Now I will have to find useful things to occupy myself instead of just lounging around and spending far to much unproductive time on internet forums such as this one.

Edited November 11, 2007 by ThaiPauly

[ThaiPauly]

A couple of examples of the benefits of investing in the stock market, and living on dividends.

I bought 15,000 National Australia Bank (cost about AUD160k all up) and 5000 St George Bank (cost about AUD 45k). After reinvesting dividends for the last few years before retirement, these shares alone generate about AUD 50k in dividends annually, which is a return on my original capital of about 24%.

This is only a slice of my portfolio, which also contains BHP, Santos, Woolworths, and several other blue-chips (and not so blue-chips - of course I have also bought some lemons along the way).

We also have some managed funds, and some listed investment companies, to spread the risk, and to make it easier for my wife to handle the portfolio when I cark it.

I do not care whether the value of the underlying shares goes up, or down, as long as they keep paying dividends. And, over time, dividends invariably rise.

I do not envy those of you who are living from fixed interest investments one little bit, because I know that our dividend stream will be better in ten years' time, no doubt at all.

I don't worry about money at all, the investments I made in Bonds are producing far more than I can spend.

I would rarther have someone well qualified to manage my money than I would risk doing it myself.

I know nothing of stocks, shares, investment portfolo's.....all I DO KNOW is that when I look at what my bond has made every three months I know I have nothing to worry about

[Crushdepth]

I envy those of you who have retired already. I hope to retire modestly in about 5 years time at 42 - stockmarket willing (if its not willing, it will take longer). I won't have any problems finding things to do!!

If you're a bored retiree...sheesh, stop whining people! Get off your arse and go do something you enjoy before you die! (No, not bingo). Go learn something that will enable you to do something new! Do it now!!!!

I saw a Thai guy wandering around with this T-shirt the other day that said "Life is not a job". He seemed to be enjoying himself, too.

[PadThaiGuy]

Ups and downs of retirement.

"The problem with doing nothing, is that you never know when you're finished."

"The art of doing nothin' is probably one of the most profitable things you can do, because it sets you up to be doing something."

Arlo Gutherie

[ThaiPauly]

Ups and downs of retirement.

"The problem with doing nothing, is that you never know when you're finished."

"The art of doing nothin' is probably one of the most profitable things you can do, because it sets you up to be doing something."

Arlo Gutherie

Nice One

[WaiWai]

I see a business opportunity...creating a business that will keep retired farangs mentally and physically busy so they don't go stir crazy in LOS.

Expat-a-go-go ... !

[Wrong Turn]

But my last pension says I can only work 11 hours per week.

PB,

You mean the US? Must be.

You put in your years and earned your pension, but one of the rules is only allowing you work in the US 11 hours per week, even at a private company?

I thought gov pensioners could double dip. Just like the retired military guys.

[Naam]

I do not care whether the value of the underlying shares goes up, or down, as long as they keep paying dividends. And, over time, dividends invariably rise.

I do not envy those of you who are living from fixed interest investments one little bit, because I know that our dividend stream will be better in ten years' time, no doubt at all.

yeah right! the shareholders of Enron and dozens of other companies are still praying every day for dividends

for those of us who live on fixed interest and are able to reinvest the lion share of it our income goes up invariably but -unlike dividends- within calculable periods and calculable amounts of money. anyway... to each his own and what makes him/her happy.

[Naam]

My wife provides more conversation than I require so why would I want to have conversations with the locals?

:D

[blaze]

Only one poster (Firefan) has mentioned language. How many of you would retire to, say, Germany if you didn't speak German, you didn't understand German and you couldn't read German? OP doesn't say whether he can communicate well in Thai but I imagine that anyplace in the world could be very boring if you don't know the local language. Before writing off a place as boring, first learn the language so you can tell what is really going on. That way, at least you can make an informed decision.

I speak enough Thai to get by and have no interest in becoming fluent. On occasion, even when I do understand I will say that I DON'T understand. I'm just a crotchety old fart now and simply don't want to be bothered. My wife provides more conversation than I require so why would I want to have conversations with the locals?

Well said Gary A. I find that as I get older I have less and less tolerance or interest in 99 percent of the conversations that I get involved in. I pretty much avoid foreigners- and speak rudimentary Thai- and frequently regret even that- nowadays, a simple nod and smile to a stranger on a sunny morning is just about enough to meet my social needs- and Thai Visa, of course. Which, unlike people, can simply be turned off.

[Naam]

I imagine that anyplace in the world could be very boring if you don't know the local language. Before writing off a place as boring, first learn the language so you can tell what is really going on. That way, at least you can make an informed decision.

i don't speak Thai except for a few words and polite sentences and i am not bored. please tell me what i could learn about Thailand if i mastered the language spoken and written.

i can't think of anything!

[Naam]

Only one poster (Firefan) has mentioned language. How many of you would retire to, say, Germany if you didn't speak German, you didn't understand German and you couldn't read German? OP doesn't say whether he can communicate well in Thai but I imagine that anyplace in the world could be very boring if you don't know the local language.

my home country Germany is boring² whether you speak the language or not

[blaze]

I imagine that anyplace in the world could be very boring if you don't know the local language. Before writing off a place as boring, first learn the language so you can tell what is really going on. That way, at least you can make an informed decision.

i don't speak Thai except for a few words and polite sentences and i am not bored. please tell me what i could learn about Thailand if i mastered the language spoken and written.

i can't think of anything!

Acutally- fluency in the language probably dulls the mystique of a place- kind of like opera- as long as you don't know what they are singing about- you can imagine that they are stating great profundities- poetic insites to match the majesty of the music- but when you speak the language- to put it kindly, it's a bit of a let down.

I prefer to imagine that when my laborer neighbors are chatting softly over a couple of beer after a hard day on the site, they are sharing their understanding of Buddhist philosophy.

[A_Traveller]

I may be in error, but I seem to recall that {Dr as he was then} Naam described a fairly frenetic pace, in a post onetime. Getting up at 4 in the morning {as his wife was going to bed} or some such. Perhaps he'd care to share a typical retired day in Pattaya Klingon style

Regards

[A_Traveller]

Not sure linguistics brings that many benefits, except to confirm {at least with overheard conversations} the suspicion that most conversations hinge on money, gossip, food, or getting one over on another.

Regards

[naka]

I would never have dared to retire on 100k a month, 350 quid a week !

The teerak has this thing about Prada !

Naka.

[Mobi]

I imagine that anyplace in the world could be very boring if you don't know the local language. Before writing off a place as boring, first learn the language so you can tell what is really going on. That way, at least you can make an informed decision.

i don't speak Thai except for a few words and polite sentences and i am not bored. please tell me what i could learn about Thailand if i mastered the language spoken and written.

i can't think of anything!

I wouldn't want to get into a big argument over this and I fully respect farangs who, for various reasons, do not speak Thai, even after having been here for many years.

Maybe I was lucky, maybe I have a language gift, but when I returned to live in Thailand 5 years ago (after coming and going for many years, and having 10 year stint living and working in the mid seventies), my spoken Thai was still pretty basic. As soon as I arrived back here, I deliberately 'immersed' myself in the Thai language, living with two women (one after the other ) who spoke absolutely no English. Within a year I was conversing well, and now, five years down the line I can really get by extremely well, to the extent that if a Thai tries to speak to me in English, I immediately respond in Thai, and from then on we talk in Thai. Anyone who knows me will vouch for the truth of this.

Over the past couple of years, things have not been exactly welcoming for farangs living in Thailand, and most of us could be sent packing on a whim from some anti- farang government official. So there have been occasions when I have given serious thought to moving on, but one of the reasons I prefer to stay here, is that I can speak the language. It makes so much difference to my life to be able to converse and discuss things with the locals in their language. Most of them, of course speak no English. I remember my time here many years ago, and how frustrating it was not being able to talk to people directly, and having to rely on translators all the time.

Those who have reached a degree of fluency in Thai will understand what I mean, and believe me you will get so much more out of the country and the Thai people. Just the look on the face of Thais - be they immigration officers,a noodle seller, or whoever, is a sight to behold when they meet a farang who can speak their language.

Next year I will start learning how to read the language, and that will take me to new levels of enjoyment and reduce my frustration even further.

Something to do in my retirement.

[Naam]

I may be in error, but I seem to recall that {Dr as he was then} Naam described a fairly frenetic pace, in a post onetime. Getting up at 4 in the morning {as his wife was going to bed} or some such. Perhaps he'd care to share a typical retired day in Pattaya Klingon style

you are not erring but quite right Traveller. when i joined this forum i introduced myself and i described how i spend (half of) a typical day in a thread which was called something like "describe how you spent your day". my days are not really frenetic but rather strictly divided in sections during which i do what i intend to do. to make a long story short, my day consists of 19 busy hours besides the 4 plus 1 hours i sleep. i sincerely wish that every day had 36 hours, unfortunately...

when i read of boredom in context with retirement i can only shake my head in disbelief and pity those who utter that (what i call) rubbish

[Naam]

Those who have reached a degree of fluency in Thai will understand what I mean, and believe me you will get so much more out of the country and the Thai people. Just the look on the face of Thais - be they immigration officers,a noodle seller, or whoever, is a sight to behold when they meet a farang who can speak their language.

what if somebody (like me) is not interested at all to talk to immigration officers or noodle sellers? will immigration lower the hurdles for extensions and noodle sellers dole out an extra portion if they are addressed fluently in Thai?

until now i only hear unsubstantiated claims "if you speak Thai then...". irritating is that these claims are totally unspecific without any explanation.

quoting you Mobi: "you will get so much more out of the country and the Thai people"

i am not suggesting that for a lot of people being able to speak the local language is not an advantage; au contraire! what i am trying to find out is whether i would benefit from it as some fellow members have suggested although i am not in dire need to "get anything out of the country or the Thai people". i know my place in Thai society where my only right is providing the country and the Thai people with my money. no misunderstanding please! as a retired scientist i don't resent but accept facts. especially when these facts were known to me before i made any decisions based on them. if in some respects my judgment was wrong i put (most of the time) the blame on me for not having done my homework properly or misjudged the situation.

[PeaceBlondie]

But my last pension says I can only work 11 hours per week.

PB,

You mean the US? Must be.

You put in your years and earned your pension, but one of the rules is only allowing you work in the US 11 hours per week, even at a private company?

I thought gov pensioners could double dip. Just like the retired military guys.

No, that's a rule against expats collecting Social Security before their full retirement age, overseas. You cannot be employed for more than 45 hours per month, outside the USA. I'm a triple dipper. I could work 99 hours per week in the US as an employee, if I didn't earn more than $1,080 in the month. However, I can be self-employed overseas. Of course, the average Joe Blondie who teaches English cannot get a work permit to be self-employed in Thailand.

[Mobi]

what if somebody (like me) is not interested at all to talk to immigration officers or noodle sellers? will immigration lower the hurdles for extensions and noodle sellers dole out an extra portion if they are addressed fluently in Thai?

Um...er... I was trying, maybe not very clearly to indicate a range of people from all walks of life that you could converse with should you wish to. I could have said From Kunyings.. to dirt farmers - whatever. The point I was making is that you can talk to the population in their own tongue. I did not suggest that by speaking Thai you were in a better position to " get anything from the country" - or to get some advantage, but merely that you would enjoy your life amongst the Thai people all the more if you can talk to them on a first hand basis, and for sure they will appreciate you, as a farang all the more.

I wasn't having a go at you, Nam, and everyone is entitled to their point of view, and if you wish to live in a country in isolation and and have no desire to ever speak to the indigenous community, then fair enough. I did say that I respect farangs who choose not to learn the language and that I didn't want to start a war over this.

But maybe you should consider the fact that you can only offer the point of view of a person who is unable to converse in Thai, whereas I, and many others, have been on both sides of the fence - having been at one time unable to speak Thai, to farangs who now can. So I would respectfully suggest that our experience is a little more valid than your own - not withstanding your undoubted greater intellect - being a retired scientist an' all.

[chiang mai]

I would never have dared to retire on 100k a month, 350 quid a week !

The teerak has this thing about Prada !

Naka.

D*mn these old posts that come back to haunt us but nevertheless, interesting to read how I felt a year ago. Have to say that a year on I do feel very different and that moving to Phuket from Chiang Mai was a very good move for me personally, altogether a much more interesting and stimulating proposition.

I still feel like I'm not ready to retire but I guess that's more about my personal make up rather than my age. Subsequent to my initial post I have done some additional work in the UK and Hong Kong and am currently looking at opportunities in New Zealand, all very exciting really. To be honest, my favored prospect at present is our growing pie business here in Phuket which is actually quite exciting.

As for finances, well Naka, you'll be pleased to learn that I never had a thing for Prada but I do try to manage my investments and my retirement funds as well as possible - you only get one shot at that kind of thing you know! The past twelve months have proved to be interesting and lucrative and all I can do is to think that the next six months will be even more interesting, especially the investment part of things.

As for retirement, it's all a state of mind, as far as I can figure out.

Edited November 11, 2007 by chiang mai

[villagefarang]

Never really liked work. I'm a "work to live" not a "live to work" sort of guy. Managed to do as little as possible, as efficiently as possible and stopped working around 40.

My life is my own and I love every minute of it. I feel sorry for those who feel a need to be controlled by a job but understand that the world wouldn't exist, as we know it, if everyone were like me.

The house is just about finished and it looks like the Apple stock that I bought before starting the house will just about pay for it. That is even with the recent 9% drop in the price. Didn't plan it that way but that is the way my life seems to go.

[blaze]

Those who have reached a degree of fluency in Thai will understand what I mean, and believe me you will get so much more out of the country and the Thai people. Just the look on the face of Thais - be they immigration officers,a noodle seller, or whoever, is a sight to behold when they meet a farang who can speak their language.

what if somebody (like me) is not interested at all to talk to immigration officers or noodle sellers? will immigration lower the hurdles for extensions and noodle sellers dole out an extra portion if they are addressed fluently in Thai?

until now i only hear unsubstantiated claims "if you speak Thai then...". irritating is that these claims are totally unspecific without any explanation.

quoting you Mobi: "you will get so much more out of the country and the Thai people"

i am not suggesting that for a lot of people being able to speak the local language is not an advantage; au contraire! what i am trying to find out is whether i would benefit from it as some fellow members have suggested although i am not in dire need to "get anything out of the country or the Thai people". i know my place in Thai society where my only right is providing the country and the Thai people with my money. no misunderstanding please! as a retired scientist i don't resent but accept facts. especially when these facts were known to me before i made any decisions based on them. if in some respects my judgment was wrong i put (most of the time) the blame on me for not having done my homework properly or misjudged the situation.

This thread started with a guy who has just retired, faced with the need to adopt a whole new way of looking at the world as well as his place in it.

In his home country- among people who speak the same language- the retiree more often than not, feels redundant. He is usually old- ie- late fifties and up- with his "best" years (or so he too frequently comes to think) behind him. Yet even though he speaks the local language it helps not one bit: retirement/old age is difficult. It is hard and it is not for the weak. Witness the 60 percent increase in use of illegal drugs by "seniors' in north america- the long standing tradition of kitchen table alcoholism- of suicide- of rotting away in chinz arm chairs consumed with bitterness and regret.

That is the reality of old age for many- always has been and always will be isolation and despair: or avoidance: racing around like a chicken with his head cut off craving distractions- excitement- purpose. Or just giving up on retirement and entering the safe and understood world of the rat race again. Only to postpone the inevitable.

If we were talking about unease among thirty year olds- yes- I would say that you are right- the social needs of the young nesceditate speaking the local lingo- but at our age? It's not that important. Because no matter what they say- foreigner or local- we've heard it all before.

There's nothing a Thai- or anyone- can tell us at our age that can't be adequately expressed with a genuine smile (and it's easier to read behind a smile than a sentence).

But this thread- I like it- I have often thought that there should be a sub forum only for people over fifty five. Where we can talk about prostrate disorders and where did I leave my specs...

[ThaiPauly]

Funny you should say what you said in you last paragraph.

A couple of days ago I pm'd admin asking if is possible to have a specfic "Retiement in Thailand" sub forum.

I also think it could be very useful