CM Immigration curiosities.

[Chiengmaijoe]

29 minutes ago, moe666 said:

I hate to tell you but it has been a while since you could just show up at immigration when they opened and get served. Even when we went to airport office it was a 5amQ to get in

 

Everything is relative. I've been here for almost 30 years so it is recent to me. I've never been to immigration before it opened because I was making appointments online before this year. Prior to that I went in the afternoon.

Edited September 12, 2016 by Chiengmaijoe

[Thailand]

4 hours ago, Chiengmaijoe said:

 

Everything is relative. I've been here for almost 30 years so it is recent to me. I've never been to immigration before it opened because I was making appointments online before this year. 

 

5 hours ago, moe666 said:

I hate to tell you but it has been a while since you could just show up at immigration when they opened and get served. Even when we went to airport office it was a 5amQ to get in

Unless you are Oscar2 or Israeli with no idea what to do.

[Paul Catton]

Introduction of appointments booked in advance would be the administration solution.

Would provide the tool to better manage and budget for required staff resources.

Emergency applications would incur a premium to enable fast track.

"Off the street" applications into a daily queue system with roll over placement.

On site passport photo booth and photocopy vending facilities.

Agents would only need to be used if unable to attend in person and line sitters would no longer be a vocation.

 

Apologies, just recollecting the processes when I was back at the Liverpool Passport Office getting an urgent replacement passport on our last visit there.

And getting my Permanent Residency sticker in the passport upon return to New Zealand.

 

Can only hope Chiang Mai gets up to speed when and if the time for my retirement occurs there.

 

[elektrified]

On 11/09/2016 at 1:42 PM, Dante99 said:

Not me Joe, I have never in 30 years had problems with immigration nor felt any need or want to take any step to get them to do anything differently.

I too, have no complaints with Immigration whatsoever and hope for my sake, that nothing changes. Next year and next extension will be my 10th year of dealing with C.M. Immigration. They are always very courteous and friendly to me and my family on the rare occasion I need to go there (once a year). It couldn't be easier. In fact, it is no more difficult than going to the Department of Motor Vehicles in my home country and getting a drivers license renewed. I have never arrived before 8:30 A.M. and am usually on my way by 10:30-11:30. Sometimes it does take more than one visit as another poster mentioned. Sometimes I will need to go 2 or 3 times until the right moment arrives. Sometimes if my wife is out and about and near Immigration, she will stop in and chat with the ladies or the Officer and see if that day is a good day to come and will call and let me know. You just need to be patient and polite. Too often, foreigners are quite rude to government officials and if you live in Thailand, you should know by now that will only work against you. Once my wife lost her patience at Amphur Muang and snapped at a clerk there while trying to accomplish an important filing of documents. She went back 4 times and the same clerk put up a road block each time. She never forgot the incident... Meanwhile the statute of limitations date was quickly approaching. My wife had to ask a favor and get help to get around the situation.... She learned her lesson.

 

I have to say that I too am a little amused with the stories of people arriving at Immigration at 3:00-7:00 A.M. Fine with me........makes it much easier for those of us that get there at normal business hours (and there are quite a few of us that do).

[Thailand]

23 minutes ago, elektrified said:

I too, have no complaints with Immigration whatsoever and hope for my sake, that nothing changes. Next year and next extension will be my 10th year of dealing with C.M. Immigration. They are always very courteous and friendly to me and my family on the rare occasion I need to go there (once a year). It couldn't be easier. In fact, it is no more difficult than going to the Department of Motor Vehicles in my home country and getting a drivers license renewed. I have never arrived before 8:30 A.M. and am usually on my way by 10:30-11:30. Sometimes it does take more than one visit as another poster mentioned. Sometimes I will need to go 2 or 3 times until the right moment arrives. Sometimes if my wife is out and about and near Immigration, she will stop in and chat with the ladies or the Officer and see if that day is a good day to come and will call and let me know. You just need to be patient and polite. Too often, foreigners are quite rude to government officials and if you live in Thailand, you should know by now that will only work against you. Once my wife lost her patience at Amphur Muang and snapped at a clerk there while trying to accomplish an important filing of documents. She went back 4 times and the same clerk put up a road block each time. She never forgot the incident... Meanwhile the statute of limitations date was quickly approaching. My wife had to ask a favor and get help to get around the situation.... She learned her lesson.

 

I have to say that I too am a little amused with the stories of people arriving at Immigration at 3:00-7:00 A.M. Fine with me........makes it much easier for those of us that get there at normal business hours (and there are quite a few of us that do).

I wish you good luck in achieving your objective on your next visit, unless things have changed I think it is highly unlikely that you will get a walk in any time of any day nowadays. But I certainly remember quite a lot of years where I was certainly able to do that.

That said, from my very recent observations mentioned before, they simply need just one more person doing extensions based on retirement and it's problem mostly solved. The 90 day 100 persons plus q I don't understand with online available to many and postal available to all.

There must be another immigration officer that is capable of sharing the minimal "retirement" load of the current lone arranger,Tonto, where are you?

[NancyL]

9 hours ago, Bob9 said:

 

I agree with all those that state the system in CM is deliberately corrupt and that money exchanges hands on a regular basis - both during the day (in office) and afterwards (when agents/others pay their 'fee's).  I have seen it several times over the years, including an agent taking a rich old Chinese man and talking to the 'officers' and then he was attended to in front of me (he had no number - had literally just arrived) and who handed over at least 10,000baht plus the 1900 baht for the permission to return (plus he would have paid the agent).  They saw that I saw the money go into the 'other' drawer - so I smiled and they were reassured I was OK - and they processed me quickly next.  But by the sounds of it is getting worse and more rampant, and perhaps the time has come to shut this down a bit.

 

May I suggest that someone with contacts at the Embassies (perhaps the US one as there are a lot of US people here and US has a full Embassy in CM) and passes on anonymously this forums feedback (all anon).  If the head official at the Embassy could then 'quietly' approach the head of the Immigration Dept (here or in BKK) and ask them politely to tell them the problem and ask them to 'tone it down a little' and maybe give another worker for the Visa extensions, then perhaps things will improve.  Nancy?? Has this been tried??  Can perhaps a TV forum 'petition' to the local Embassy be started for everyone to 'sign' while we all stay anon??? 

While I wait for hell to freeze over, does anyone have the details of a queue sitter and their cost??  I gotta do my Visa extension later this month or early Oct and last year didn't need to get a queue sitter.

 

 

 

Bob9, did you actually contact the U.S. Consulate and Embassy yourself with this story?  Problem is that not enough people do this.  

 

And remember, what you really should be complaining about isn't the corruption, but the fact that it has created an environment of deliberate bad service, where there is no incentive to provide service to the same levels as is found in other provinces.  Corruption, bribes and pay-offs are a way of life in Thailand and it isn't our place to impose U.S. values on the Thai people.  However, we can ask our Embassy to insist that we receive the same service levels that expats receive in other provinces and that the elderly don't have to arrive at 3 am and wait in the dark with the mosquitoes in order to have access to the services.

[silverhawk_usa]

I suggest that everyone participate in the current City Life Survey.  At least it is possibly a start to being heard.

[orchis]

12 hours ago, NancyL said:

 

 

The problem isn't with tourist visa extensions, but with other longer term extensions.  

 

I posted in a thread about "Chiang Mai Immigration Curiosities". After reading all the tales of woe my splendid experience certainly should count as a "curiosity" in your book, Madam.

[Bob9]

2 hours ago, NancyL said:

 

Bob9, did you actually contact the U.S. Consulate and Embassy yourself with this story?  Problem is that not enough people do this.  

 

And remember, what you really should be complaining about isn't the corruption, but the fact that it has created an environment of deliberate bad service, where there is no incentive to provide service to the same levels as is found in other provinces.  Corruption, bribes and pay-offs are a way of life in Thailand and it isn't our place to impose U.S. values on the Thai people.  However, we can ask our Embassy to insist that we receive the same service levels that expats receive in other provinces and that the elderly don't have to arrive at 3 am and wait in the dark with the mosquitoes in order to have access to the services.

Informally rang a year ago and was told I would have to provide name/details to lodge a formal complaint - knew that would be a risky thing to do.   But I have just completed the online survey being run by CityLife - great to see someone has taken this approach - maybe something good will come of it. And maybe this time for longer than just a few weeks as you noted before. 

 

I agree with you about the reasons for the corruption. I have always found the staff to be friendly and reasonably efficient (TiT). The problem is that there are not enough staff and the system is incompetent - which causes dalays and problems - which leads to people paying to get done quickly - which is hard to resist when you are offered more in one day than you make in a week or two. The problem is that I think they have allowed this to happen, have seen the advantages (money), and are doing things to make it worse - like allowing Thai people and Agents to queue for numbers when they are not the person using their services (knowing they get a cut of the payment).

 

[holy cow cm]

17 hours ago, hougourou said:

I renewed a marriage visa at the airport office last week.  Arrived 4:20, got a queue number at 7 am.  I think I only made the cut since I had words with a line sitter who had placed 3 chairs in the line.  New requirement for TM30 delay solved with 1600 Baht, receipted, at the building at the back.  Processed at noon, back for photo at 1 pm, passsport returned after sign off at 4 pm.  A really fun day!

 

The guy who processed us was a new arrival from Suwanaphum, polite and efficient, not pleased he'd been posted to CM.  I noticed a few empty desks in the room. I don't think  previous comments about how it works in ohter countieres are are particualry useful--we're here.

 

Next year I might hire a line sitter/agent.  

 

Sorry I pressed the wrong button and the message to which I reply is below

 

myself. 

Hi hougourou. Thanks for the head up. Can you give me more detail on your TM30 episode. I have to tackle this asap. How di they bring it up to you and how did you clear it?

[Bob9]

2 hours ago, silverhawk_usa said:

I suggest that everyone participate in the current City Life Survey.  At least it is possibly a start to being heard.

Just did my bit - come on everyone - take a few minutes and complete the survey (be nice not too much complaint) - nothiong will come of whinging on TV - something may come from 100s doing the survey (maybe).

 

[dru2]

... Next year I might hire a line sitter/agent....

 

But word has it you believe this to be a corrupt and unacceptable practice. Have you gone over to the Zef side?

[holy cow cm]

Hi anyone who has the info. TM30.

1. So if I have to have the company I lease from register me/ how do they do that? I lease from the agency NIM.

2. Every time I go somewhere do I have to have them reregister or reenter my name for where I reside? Every time?

3. if I have never done this and travel a lot, will the company get a fine? or will it just be registered and it starts from there?

4. Immigration when I do my extension will need to see what document from me besides contract of rental?

5. I will be buying under the little woman's name a new house here years end, so is it plainly we register at the new place, and then I have to reregister like a dog or slave boy every time? 

 

They are basically calling all of us dogs and criminals. We cannot we even qualify as second class citizens. Where is the humility?

 

This is looking like Thailand is getting more out of control going into like a dictatorship. What are they going to do next to all of us long timers... chip us.

[hougourou]

59 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

Hi hougourou. Thanks for the head up. Can you give me more detail on your TM30 episode. I have to tackle this asap. How di they bring it up to you and how did you clear it?

The lady who gave me my queue number told me it was a new requirement and sent me to the office at the back (opens 8:30) where you show copies of your passport, wife's tabian baan and ID.  Wife pays1600 Baht fine, you get something stapled in your passport.  Copy that and head back to front office and wait to be called.  Good luck!

[holy cow cm]

Hi hougourou. Mine is a bit of a complication. Common practice marriage with children and we rent here in CM from a company but have property elsewhere that we do not live at. So for certain I will be fined? how do you register? does the company we rent from have to register? they are not. can I just fill out a form, take the rental agreement and then do it for them? I would just pay the fine as do not want any problems with them.

 

What a headache.

Edited September 13, 2016 by holy cow cm

[holy cow cm]

Yeah, been with this one over 18 years, so never saw the need to marry except the kids getting older would like to see it.

[hougourou]

1 hour ago, dru2 said:

... Next year I might hire a line sitter/agent....

 

But word has it you believe this to be a corrupt and unacceptable practice. Have you gone over to the Zef side?

 

Dru, my princples are inviolable, even when contradictory.

[Konini]

17 hours ago, CNXBKKMAN said:

 

I wouldn't say the office is run inefficiently apart from the obvious admin procedures set by HQ that they have no control over. My impression recently doing a marriage extension is that the office is deliberately restricting the numbers of people they will process who want to just pay the government set charge of 1900 baht. I arrived at 05:00 same as previous years but was only seen at about 16:00. Previous years a 05:00 arrival would have got you an early number and you would on your way home at 09:30-10:30. 

      Other people have mentioned(on this forum) at Prom that they tried to do 90 day report (or whatever can't remember the exact details) and they staff said its too late, no more numbers , finished for the day etc. The person went to the attached agents office and paid the inflated price and the agent came back with it all done 15mins later.

         There is the front door, public face of immigration where they work as they should but limit the numbers they deal with. There is the backdoor version where for a charge they will do what the front door office will say is not possible today.

           Who are these agents? It seems obvious these agents are directly connected to the office through family or or are trusted business partners. When you pay 6000 baht on top of the 1900b fee for your extension how much does the imm office get of that 6000? 3000 per applicant ? more ? all of it if they are running an agent business themselves. Can some local person set themselves up as an agent with no connections within the office ? Very doubtful imo. This is a multi million baht business and if you pay extra all immigration needs are done swiftly, no backlogs. Pay extra above the government set fees and the office will work on a saturday in a pleasant hotel in town and do all extensions with a smile as they do for the japanese expats. They are not short staffed on a saturday. They are not short staffed when you go to the agents office at prom and pay the extra charge. They are only short staffed for anyone who wants to pay no more than the government set fees.

         Why doesnt BKK clamp down on it? The amounts of money being generated may be large enough that BKK can be pacified and basically told just leave CM alone. Nobody is complaining. Everyone is getting their visa requirements done. The system works. We are farangs and and as so many farangs have said on this forum 6000 baht is small change once a year. Farangs are not going to complain like local people would. If local farmers had to deal with CM Imm they would protest out front. Block the road with tractors, dump farm waste in the car park. Will CM expats do this? No . People are paying up and many feel its worth it and are not too fussed. 

       Just my opinion but i don't think CM imm is so inefficient or bumbling that they came to work one monday morning and found they had a lucrative business built on top of legit state owned immigration office. What do detectives say "follow the money" or something like that. Who benefits from these 6000 baht agent fees? who collects that money? When you think that way it does make sense out of the CM Immigration situation.

      

 

CNXBKKMAN - this is a perfect example of what could be easily copied and pasted into a letter to the editor and pruned down a little for brevity.  I've singled you out because your post is particularly eloquent, but there are a dozen examples in this thread alone where the author could copy and paste their post and put it into a letter to the editor.  Can be submitted by email so no effort involved, doesn't have to be in your real name I don't think, not sure how they check or you can request 'Name Withheld'.

 

Letters in such a forum as the Bangkok Post DO make a difference.  Anyone who read the letter and followed what happened immediately after knows it did, but everyone else will have moved on and forgotten about it.  Problem solved.  It's time to get some of that public exposure again, to remind Bangkok that the problem isn't solved, and with the push to promote CM as a retirement destination it is going to get worse and worse as more people try to access a system that isn't working.  My dad was in a strong and powerful union.  He went on strike a lot when I was young, but that was only to get public attention.  If coal miners wanted something, they imposed a work to rule.  Production was virtually zero;  all guards put back on every machine, 2 men to do this job because: safety rules says 2 men even though it only takes one, surface break for fresh air and to cool down a couple of times each shift.  It goes on and on, and you don't lose any wages.  Working to rule is the best way to get what you want, because all it does is kill productivity.  These people are smart enough to have figured this out.

 

It's time for a little outrage, or resignation to defeat.  It doesn't matter which, as long as it gets public attention, which at the moment is best done in a letter to the editor.

 

Please consider.

[Thailand]

 

[evenstevens]

1 hour ago, Konini said:

 

CNXBKKMAN - this is a perfect example of what could be easily copied and pasted into a letter to the editor and pruned down a little for brevity.  I've singled you out because your post is particularly eloquent, but there are a dozen examples in this thread alone where the author could copy and paste their post and put it into a letter to the editor.  Can be submitted by email so no effort involved, doesn't have to be in your real name I don't think, not sure how they check or you can request 'Name Withheld'.

 

Letters in such a forum as the Bangkok Post DO make a difference.  Anyone who read the letter and followed what happened immediately after knows it did, but everyone else will have moved on and forgotten about it.  Problem solved.  It's time to get some of that public exposure again, to remind Bangkok that the problem isn't solved, and with the push to promote CM as a retirement destination it is going to get worse and worse as more people try to access a system that isn't working.  My dad was in a strong and powerful union.  He went on strike a lot when I was young, but that was only to get public attention.  If coal miners wanted something, they imposed a work to rule.  Production was virtually zero;  all guards put back on every machine, 2 men to do this job because: safety rules says 2 men even though it only takes one, surface break for fresh air and to cool down a couple of times each shift.  It goes on and on, and you don't lose any wages.  Working to rule is the best way to get what you want, because all it does is kill productivity.  These people are smart enough to have figured this out.

 

It's time for a little outrage, or resignation to defeat.  It doesn't matter which, as long as it gets public attention, which at the moment is best done in a letter to the editor.

 

Please consider.

 your  nice thoughts will only go down a long road,  with no return

 

its a , He Ain.t  Heavy, He,s   My Brother  ( The Hollies) early evening to all

[hougourou]

2 hours ago, Konini said:

 

CNXBKKMAN - this is a perfect example of what could be easily copied and pasted into a letter to the editor and pruned down a little for brevity.  I've singled you out because your post is particularly eloquent, but there are a dozen examples in this thread alone where the author could copy and paste their post and put it into a letter to the editor.  Can be submitted by email so no effort involved, doesn't have to be in your real name I don't think, not sure how they check or you can request 'Name Withheld'.

 

Letters in such a forum as the Bangkok Post DO make a difference.  Anyone who read the letter and followed what happened immediately after knows it did, but everyone else will have moved on and forgotten about it.  Problem solved.  It's time to get some of that public exposure again, to remind Bangkok that the problem isn't solved, and with the push to promote CM as a retirement destination it is going to get worse and worse as more people try to access a system that isn't working.  My dad was in a strong and powerful union.  He went on strike a lot when I was young, but that was only to get public attention.  If coal miners wanted something, they imposed a work to rule.  Production was virtually zero;  all guards put back on every machine, 2 men to do this job because: safety rules says 2 men even though it only takes one, surface break for fresh air and to cool down a couple of times each shift.  It goes on and on, and you don't lose any wages.  Working to rule is the best way to get what you want, because all it does is kill productivity.  These people are smart enough to have figured this out.

 

It's time for a little outrage, or resignation to defeat.  It doesn't matter which, as long as it gets public attention, which at the moment is best done in a letter to the editor.

 

Please consider.

A friend of mine wrote a letter to Bangkok Post on this subject which they declined to publish.  Still, no harm in trying.

[hougourou]

5 minutes ago, evenstevens said:

 your  nice thoughts will only go down a long road,  with no return

 

its a , He Ain.t  Heavy, He,s   My Brother  ( The Hollies) early evening to all

With all due respect, are you intoxicated?

[evenstevens]

  ^^^^^ no probs, E/S is no Bogan, if that  is,  what you mean???

 

But

 

 presently is  a  dead  dingo,s donger,

 

on my second Beer Lao Dark,the third will make me fine

 

thks for your concern, a Dame Edna ,evening to all my readers

 

[chiang mai]

On 11/09/2016 at 9:14 PM, NancyL said:

No, Chiengmaijoe raises a very good point.  One should reasonably expect to be able to conduct a required obligation if one shows up at the time the gov't office responsible for fulfilling that task opens.  OK, maybe it isn't reasonable to wait until the last minute, but here in Chiang Mai, you could show up at 8:30 am, 45 days before your retirement extension expires -- the earliest you can apply -- and be turned away because the queue was full.  You could return every day, at 8:30 am, for 45 days and be meet with the same story.

 

Think about your own countries.  What do you think would happen if people had to queue up at 2 am in order to renew their driver's licenses?  Thai people don't have to queue up at zero-dark-stupid in order to get visas to our countries nor do they have to queue up at those hours to meet the requirements imposed on them by their government.

 

Do any of you hire someone to apply for a driver's license for you in your home country?  Or wait in a queue at a government office?   Or for that matter, at any other government office in Thailand?  ..... I didn't think so.

 

 

 

I was 100% with you Nancy until you played the, "What do you think would happen if people had to queue up at 2 am in order to renew their" xxx card! This isn't the home country of most members, this is Thailand, that's not a valid argument in any shape or form. What is reasonable in one country may well be the opposite in a another, just because Western rules dictate this or that, there is no obligation on other countries to follow or adopt them. Folks need to adjust, accept or leave if they cannot do the preceding, change from within is not an option at this juncture.

[CNXBKKMAN]

Konini or anyone else feel free to copy and paste anything I have posted and sign the letter yourself. I got my extension done recently without using an agent but things are definitely getting worse. I am not at the end of my tether yet to start writing letters to the Bangkok Post or anything else. 

       I might be stating the obvious here for most people but for any noobs feeling gung-ho to kick up a fuss tread very carefully.  The Immigration Dept are part of the Police. The people making the big money will be high ranking influential people. The won't be happy if somebody is threatening their multi million baht business. Bad things can and do happen in Thailand. 

Edited September 13, 2016 by CNXBKKMAN
Mistake

[Chiengmaijoe]

3 hours ago, chiang mai said:

 

I was 100% with you Nancy until you played the, "What do you think would happen if people had to queue up at 2 am in order to renew their" xxx card! This isn't the home country of most members, this is Thailand, that's not a valid argument in any shape or form. What is reasonable in one country may well be the opposite in a another, just because Western rules dictate this or that, there is no obligation on other countries to follow or adopt them. Folks need to adjust, accept or leave if they cannot do the preceding, change from within is not an option at this juncture.

 

It is a valid argument because other than immigration at Chiang Mai I don't know of any other immigration office or government office that requires you to get there before they even open, and several hours before at that. When I renew my work permit I am in and out in 10 minutes. My wife recently got a new Thai passport and was in and out in 20 minutes, and the place was pretty busy. Neither places required an appointment and as I said earlier, that was the case  at Immigration for the majority of the years I've been here. Chiang Mai Immigration is certainly not a case of This is Thailand, as you guys love saying.

 

You talk as if it's always been that way, and your suggestion that we accept it or leave isn't very original either. I happen to have a wife, children, grandchildren, neices, a house, a business so leaving is not only not an option but not something that you do at the drop of a hat. Chiang Mai immigration certainly has problems and it's only right that those of us that live here should talk about it.

 

On another note, I don't actually believe that it is all part of a plan to extort money out of the applicants, mainly because I'm not as cynical as most people here and I prefer to take the approach of not always asuming the worst about people. Whereas most people here prefer to assume the worst about Thais, I prefer to assume the best about people first and look at things without the preconception that everyone is dishonest, and out to cheat me.

[jak2002003]

I can see in the future there will be agents for agents for immigration.  Get you number to get a number to get an agent, to get another agent to get a number for immigration!!!!

 

Where does this madness end?  Now its got to the stage then agents are getting there 10.30pm the night before.

 

I had an appointment with CM immigration for renew my visa.. and when I turned up I was kept waiting 3 hours after my appointment time... only to be told that the guy who was going to see me was having some kind of immigration parade day and I had to make another appointment using my agent for another day!!!!

 

 

[Chiengmaijoe]

For those that have taken the view that this is all about corruption, I have a few questions. 

1 why are no other immigration offices similarly 'inefficient', for the purposes of collecting agency fees? If they are making billions here, as someone suggested, I would have thought the word would have got around by now.

 

2 Do you know of any other government offices that are charging fees to get things done? In the recent clamour to get Pink ID cards, I didn't hear of anyone paying over the odds to get these much sought after novelties. I guess the same is true of Yellow books. No demands at the Labour Office when it comes to renewing a work permit - highly efficient and transparent.

 

3 This situation has arisen in just the last few years, mostly during the time of Military rule and the big anti-corruption drive. It is also unique to Chiang  Mai, which appears to be under greater scrutiny in the last few years. Why would they be allowing corruption  as you guys like to say it is, in such a high-profile place as immigration, that deals with foreigners, who are notorious for not accepting such practices?

 

4 do any of you guys know how much a billion is?

[chiang mai]

4 hours ago, Chiengmaijoe said:

 

It is a valid argument because other than immigration at Chiang Mai I don't know of any other immigration office or government office that requires you to get there before they even open, and several hours before at that. When I renew my work permit I am in and out in 10 minutes. My wife recently got a new Thai passport and was in and out in 20 minutes, and the place was pretty busy. Neither places required an appointment and as I said earlier, that was the case  at Immigration for the majority of the years I've been here. Chiang Mai Immigration is certainly not a case of This is Thailand, as you guys love saying.

 

You talk as if it's always been that way, and your suggestion that we accept it or leave isn't very original either. I happen to have a wife, children, grandchildren, neices, a house, a business so leaving is not only not an option but not something that you do at the drop of a hat. Chiang Mai immigration certainly has problems and it's only right that those of us that live here should talk about it.

 

On another note, I don't actually believe that it is all part of a plan to extort money out of the applicants, mainly because I'm not as cynical as most people here and I prefer to take the approach of not always asuming the worst about people. Whereas most people here prefer to assume the worst about Thais, I prefer to assume the best about people first and look at things without the preconception that everyone is dishonest, and out to cheat me.

 

Suggesting that CM Immigration is unique within Thailand IS a valid argument, but I'm not certain that it is, suggesting it is is not acceptable when wait times are longer than at similar institutions back home, is NOT - my response was to the latter, not the former.

 

FWIW I don't have children nor a business and I am retired hence I have plenty of time on my hands. Despite that I use a visa agent for all my visa needs and that costs me about 150 USD per year, a sum which is easily in range for most expats I would guess. Is it morally wrong to use that option and should Immigration provide a more easily accessible service  to the common man, that's all down to personal choice and opinion I guess. But with an effective and simple solution available to me at USD 150 a year, I'm not inclined to embark on a crusade any time soon. And is leaving a serious option if people don't like what they see and are against having to start queuing earlier and earlier? Well of course it is but it would seem to be an over reaction given that simple solutions to the problem are available, baby and bath water and all that!

 

Perhaps one way to look at this problem is to use the home country for a moment but in a different way to what Nancy intended. In mine, the UK, Lunar House in Croydon manages most of the country's Immigration needs and a visit there will make even the most hardened and devoted immigrant think twice about whether they really want to be in the UK or not. It's a dire experience with long wait times, poor service, rude staff and even ruder (if not down right dangerous) visitors - it's been that way since at east the 1980's. Government is aware of the situation there, ITV has filmed exposé's there,  it's synonymous  with all the things the UK is not! Will the government ever change things there and what would be their reaction if enough people ever got together to complain about things there, a rhetorical question!!! More important to ask perhaps is why they will not change things and therein perhaps lies the answer to the CM Immigration scenario! Another dimension of course is to wonder how those immigrants visiting Lunar House would react if, for USD 150 a year, an agent could handle all their visa needs, personally I think they would be deliriously ecstatic, alas such a system is disallowed.

 

"Services and facilities at Lunar House have been criticised in the past. In the summer of 2004, Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Prisons conducted unannounced inspections of short-term holding facilities attached to immigration reporting centres, and found particular problems at Lunar House: "Lunar House is the main route through which families are detained at Oakington Reception Centre. In spite of this, it had inadequate child protection procedures, and staff were not alert to the need to ensure that agreed safeguards on the detention of children were implemented."^[1] In 2005, a report by the South London Citizens enquiry into service provision by the Immigration and Nationality Directorate found that "It was perceived that minimum standards of comfort afforded to British citizens do not apply to migrants waiting for services at Lunar House. Areas of immediate concern include the quality of facilities for applicants, the quality and fairness of transactions, the quality of IT and record keeping and the working conditions of staff."^[2] Lunar House was subsequently refurbished in 2005. At present access to the building requires Airport-style security checks".

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_House

 

[amexpat]

Kidnapping is not a problem as long as people can afford the ransom.