Its too expensive I may leave

[Bluespunk]

Using a metal detector hardly counts as "mad treasure hunting skills". 

[Alive]

If you get bored there are some cool videos of guys like this one looking for things with their metal detectors. Some in Europe are finding lots of WW2 stuff including guns. A kid in the US amazingly finds lots of cellphones in rivers along with other stuff again including guns. I saw a clip on Thai tv of a Thai guy who works the canals around BKK looking for old coins and other stuff. That might be on youtube as well. I find this metal-detecting interesting. It's a great free time activity that gets you outdoors and you never know what you will find each day. 

[longtom]

Some regulars are doing that every day on Samui's beaches, Farang and Thai, overheard 2 of them talking one day, apparently they find quite a few gold/silver chains ripped off by the currents, and also the occasional coin. Of course nothing of historical value here. 

[SOTIRIOS]

...amazement...???

...or hatred ..... resentment....???

...will he be fined next....???

 

[cumgranosalum]

8 minutes ago, longtom said:

Some regulars are doing that every day on Samui's beaches, Farang and Thai, overheard 2 of them talking one day, apparently they find quite a few gold/silver chains ripped off by the currents, and also the occasional coin. Of course nothing of historical value here. 

unlikely they would understand what was or wasn't of historical value.

[Paul944]

1 hour ago, Pimay1 said:

I never had to make that decision as I never found a gold coin.

Nah, I think you did find a whole pot of gold and used it to retire to Thailand.

[IMA_FARANG]

Laugh all you want, but I just tead a science digest report that many veneral disease  are now becoming resistant to antibiotics due to overuse of antibiotics  for diseases where they are not really required.

Three confirmed cases of antibiotic resistant venereal disease  in Hawaii I the last year

All from hetrosexual contact, not one from gay sex.

So walking on a  beach with a metal detedtor in Thailand might be a less dangerous pastime then a girly bar, after all.

 

 

Edited September 23, 2016 by IMA_FARANG

[Shawn0000]

2 hours ago, cumgranosalum said:

it's not a matter of "donating your finds"- the problem is that archeology requires survey and location before excavation and finally removal and conservation of an object.

Where it is and how it is lying in the ground are as important as the object itself - if an "amateur" interfere with the evidence it is tantamount to the way the Thai police handle forensics at a crime site.

 

the rate of erosion wear and tear on a beach can very by decades relating to location currents tides and materials.

 

I am not saying that this guy is particularly damaging in this case, but one needs proper recording and categorisation of any objects found as it is quitre likely they may not be all linked to one single incident as suggested in the OP.......then there is the inevitable question of ownership - how this is sorted under Thai law is anyone's guess.

 

Well, I know of one quite famous museum that very much appreciates their metal detector contributions and regularly pays tribute to then, obviously they would not condone the detecting on known sites of interest, but finding random lost objects is completely different.

[Shawn0000]

3 hours ago, Pimay1 said:

I never had to make that decision as I never found a gold coin.

 

If you re-read my question, the decision you are saying you have never had to make would have to have been made before the detecting even began as it would determine whether you were to be honest from the start and admit to the landowner that if you find a gold coin then you are not going to tell them, as you already said you would not.

[ClutchClark]

9 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Work permit is the first thing that comes to mind,

and I thought Metal detectors were illegal here ?,

most things that you can have fun with,are

regards worgeordie

 

The most popular thing to have fun with are Thsi women and they aren't illegal 

 

(what happened to all the emoticons?)

[Pimay1]

13 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

If you re-read my question, the decision you are saying you have never had to make would have to have been made before the detecting even began as it would determine whether you were to be honest from the start and admit to the landowner that if you find a gold coin then you are not going to tell them, as you already said you would not.

OK enough, enough, you sound just like my ex wife.

[longtom]

2 hours ago, cumgranosalum said:

unlikely they would understand what was or wasn't of historical value.

 

They would understand it if they found it, but Samui wasn't really on the silk road or any  historical significant water way throughout the centuries, and old coconuts don't show up on the metal detectors. 

[bwpage3]

10 hours ago, Thian said:

 

He can still get problems from that, authorities aren't that fast here you know?

 

What if one of those amulets happens to be very expensive or from a hi-so Thai?? You'll see....

Do you know the difference between a coin and an amulet?

Try not to be a fortune teller about what MAY happen with the authorities. I do not think you have the skills for that.

As of right now nothing has happened.

No need to panic.

 

[cumgranosalum]

2 hours ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

Well, I know of one quite famous museum that very much appreciates their metal detector contributions and regularly pays tribute to then, obviously they would not condone the detecting on known sites of interest, but finding random lost objects is completely different.

Not all museums work to uniform international standards - As someone who has worked in museums, I can tell you that people with metal detectors are regarded with much reservation - and largely because of the  "random lost objects" you talk about - if it turns out they have historical/archaeological values and the discovery isn't logged mapped and recorded properly the object ca become little more than that - a random object.

one of the main problems is that they are "metal detectors" and do just about that which means that a lot of other materials associated with an object are often damaged or completely ignored in the exhumation process

You'll find also that most museums have policy on metal detectors and usually have a set of guidelines to prevent the kind of "find" you are referring to.

Edited September 23, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[john_bkk919]

I used to detect in Thailand.

 

Most of what you will find are modern 1 baht coins and M150 bottle caps, sometimes with a bonus glass shard.  Lots of pull tabs and even some buried cans.

 

Certain areas like football fields you might find a few hundred baht in modern coins over the course of an afternoon.  Assuming the place hadn't been searched before or not in several years.

 

I've found, on rare occasions, older coins.  But not that old - some 1950s, a few from the 1920s.  Found a few rings as well.  Yes, I do try to reunite them with their owners if there is any practical way to do that.  Usually there isn't.  If it's right on the surface I might leave it there.  Nothing I found was worth more than a few thousand baht when new.

 

'Dug' items are generally not valuable due to being blackened / mineralized / worn etc. There are exceptions but if you look up coin values, for instance, the value drops off quite a bit if the condition is less than 'very good'.  Hardly anything coming out of the ground is going to meet that standard.  Same with dug rings and necklaces, though gold tends to hold up the best.  

 

As for relics, there's a lot of stuff that's quite old that even in the ground has no practical archaeological significance at all.  I know that's hard for Joe Everyman to believe, but it's true.  A lot of fields you might hunt were backfilled decades ago.  Most detectors only hit on coin sized objects reliably at a max depth of about 10-12cm.

 

In Thailand you're unlikely to find anything important ever.  I don't exactly know why that is, but that was my experience over several years of detecting tons of places that had probably never been hit before.  Maybe the 'good stuff' is too deep.  TBH I don't want the hassle of finding some 15th century artifact and trying to figure out what to do about it.  I just like to dig up 5 baht coins and toy cars.

 

If you're doing this for money, beaches of course make the most sense.  People lose their jewelry and you might find items that were dropped quite recently.  Even phones and cameras, at least in the US.  

 

I suspect the coins mentioned in the article were dropped by visitors over a number of years and didn't come from a shipwreck.  The guy had a saltwater detector which most people won't afford.  So all that stuff was waiting to be found a few feet out in the surf.

 

It's not a lucrative hobby for most of us but nobody said it had to be.  It's dirt fishing.  

 

Metal detecting IS legal in Thailand but be prepared for interference from self-appointed 'defenders of the realm'.  Many Thais will insist that you are looking for ancient buddhas and gold and won't be convinced otherwise.  They can get a bit worked up about it.  Stealing the treasures of the land.  Keep a bag of dug trash handy and show it to them.  Typically they will lose all interest immediately.  But be ready for some edgy confrontations, weird stalking and hateful staring. 

 

Best to show them the trash bag and a few blackened one baht coins and defuse the situation.  If it's too 'hot', leave.

 

I don't think I've ever hunted anywhere in Thailand and not had people approach me. Just have to expect it and be goodnatured about it.  I've had some kids and younger folk join me and I'm happy to teach anyone the basics and let them hunt.  Some positive experiences.

 

Don't hunt areas of perceived historical significance.  Don't get obsessed with finds, enjoy the process.  Have empathy for others, even if they're 'wrong'. 

[cumgranosalum]

41 minutes ago, longtom said:

 

They would understand it if they found it, but Samui wasn't really on the silk road or any  historical significant water way throughout the centuries, and old coconuts don't show up on the metal detectors. 

You are dismissing an island's history when you know absolutely nothing about it at all......it is the discovery and excavation of objects in a scientific and methodical manner that is the most reliable way of actually discovering the history of a region - it isn't just treasure that makes history - it is day-to-day objects and the analysis of how and where they were found that gives the most profound insight into human history.........you miight check out Ban Chiang (udon) as an example of this....and the problems associated with any such discovery.

[john_bkk919]

^I think you're over-estimating the impact of hobbyist grade metal detectors in Thailand, particularly on a beach.  Most countries allow beach detecting/combing w/caveats because it's unlikely to disturb anything that hasn't already been disturbed by humans and the ocean.

 

If people were using ground radar and backhoes, you'd have more of a point.

 

The Ban Chiang 'pottery scandal' was about a sustained (unsupervised) excavation after farmers discovered an artifact lode.   A guy with a sand scoop and a thousand dollar coil isn't in that league.  He's basically a beach janitor, recyclables collector. 

 

[tomyumchai]

Out of boredom but possibly inspired by the tv show 'auzzie gold hunters' i considered buying a metal detector to use in the more obsceure places i visit in thailand.

But theres a limit to the excitement to be gleaned from digging up kao khao bottle tops and disposible lighters.....

[cumgranosalum]

7 hours ago, john_bkk919 said:

^I think you're over-estimating the impact of hobbyist grade metal detectors in Thailand, particularly on a beach.  Most countries allow beach detecting/combing w/caveats because it's unlikely to disturb anything that hasn't already been disturbed by humans and the ocean.

 

If people were using ground radar and backhoes, you'd have more of a point.

 

The Ban Chiang 'pottery scandal' was about a sustained (unsupervised) excavation after farmers discovered an artifact lode.   A guy with a sand scoop and a thousand dollar coil isn't in that league.  He's basically a beach janitor, recyclables collector. 

 

I doubt if this guy on the beach is actually doing  much harm, but if you read my earlier post I was  making a comment on this "hobby" in general and the potential it has for damage to archeological investigation whether new or established.

 

Bang Chiang was "accidentally discovered by a gut who happened to know what he was looking at - most metal detector hobbyists don't or by the time they do the damage has been done.

 

I think several posts above outlining the hobby actually show how irresponsible and uninformed these people can be - the concentration on metal and value for a s start have the potential destroy the real significance of any find.

 

"was about a sustained (unsupervised) excavation after farmers discovered an artifact [sic] lode."

- this is precisely a problem that can arise from metal detecting hobbyists - improperly defined or reported finds can subsequently lead to the kind of degradation of a new site that happened in Ban Chiang - particularly in countries like Thailand where there is no real tradition of archeology or preservation and study of the past, and little or no systems in place to protect finds.

Edited September 23, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[Shawn0000]

12 hours ago, cumgranosalum said:

Not all museums work to uniform international standards - As someone who has worked in museums, I can tell you that people with metal detectors are regarded with much reservation - and largely because of the  "random lost objects" you talk about - if it turns out they have historical/archaeological values and the discovery isn't logged mapped and recorded properly the object ca become little more than that - a random object.

one of the main problems is that they are "metal detectors" and do just about that which means that a lot of other materials associated with an object are often damaged or completely ignored in the exhumation process

You'll find also that most museums have policy on metal detectors and usually have a set of guidelines to prevent the kind of "find" you are referring to.

 

I am referring to the attitude toward metal detectors of the Ashmolean.  Which museums have you worked in? 

[cumgranosalum]

52 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

I am referring to the attitude toward metal detectors of the Ashmolean.  Which museums have you worked in? 

The Ashmolean shares the concerns of most British Museums.  No museum will ignore an artefact brought to its notice. Like any good archeological institution, it then attempts to build up as much provenance and evidence around the object as possible.....and this is always a matter for concern for any amateur find however it is made

 

If you want to know more about their policy and what they are doing in order to keep as much value as possible to any "private" finds they are together with almost all UK museums part of the Portable Antiquities Scheme

 

 

[Shawn0000]

1 minute ago, cumgranosalum said:

The Ashmolean shares the concerns of most British Museums.  No museum will ignore an artefact brought to its notice. Like any good archeological institution, it then attempts to build up as much provenance and evidence around the object as possible.....and this is always a matter for concern for any amateur find however it is made

 

If you want to know more about their policy and what they are doing in order to keep as much value as possible to any "private" finds they are together with almost all UK museums part of the Portable Antiquities Scheme

 

 

 

The point being that the Ashmolean does pay homage to their metal detector contributors.

[cumgranosalum]

8 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

The point being that the Ashmolean does pay homage to their metal detector contributors.

 

8 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

The point being that the Ashmolean does pay homage to their metal detector contributors.

They credit those who discover an antiquity (regardless of source) - they pioneered the scientific excavation, cataloguing in archeology and their concerns are the ones I've expressed - just implying that my putting the name of a metal detectorist next to a find means they "think it's OK" is nonsense - there is a big problem in the UK with untrained detectorist disturbing archeological finds to the detriment of subsequent research - The concerns resulted in the formation of the Portable Antiquities Project. (British Museum), which aims to minimise the damage and maximise the information for future study.

If you want to know more read their stuff it outlines both the methodology and the law surrounding trove.

[Shawn0000]

3 minutes ago, cumgranosalum said:

 

They credit those who discover an antiquity (regardless of source) - they pioneered the scientific excavation, cataloguing in archeology and their concerns are the ones I've expressed - just implying that my putting the name of a metal detectorist next to a find means they "think it's OK" is nonsense - there is a big problem in the UK with untrained detectorist disturbing archeological finds to the detriment of subsequent research - The concerns resulted in the formation of the Portable Antiquities Project. (British Museum), which aims to minimise the damage and maximise the information for future study.

If you want to know more read their stuff it outlines both the methodology and the law surrounding trove.

 

It is your assumption that I am referring to the mere naming of a finder as 'paying homage' that is nonsense, I am actually referring to a past exhibition wall dedicated to metal detectors contributions and their writings at the exhibition demonstrating the museums appreciation.  You seem to be neglecting the fact that many metal detectors are actually responsible and aware people who do not damage sites but find random lost objects in fields where it is not possible for them to either do harm nor miss crucial non metal artifacts as the fields are regularly plowed.

[cumgranosalum]

1 hour ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

It is your assumption that I am referring to the mere naming of a finder as 'paying homage' that is nonsense, I am actually referring to a past exhibition wall dedicated to metal detectors contributions and their writings at the exhibition demonstrating the museums appreciation.  You seem to be neglecting the fact that many metal detectors are actually responsible and aware people who do not damage sites but find random lost objects in fields where it is not possible for them to either do harm nor miss crucial non metal artifacts as the fields are regularly plowed.

No I'm not - I think you are being deliberately obtuse because your first comments were clearly not giving the right impression and you now realise tat. - The whole point of what you describe and the point I'm making is that metal detectorists are way too frequently uneducated and irresponsible when scouring a site a point that you seem to be avoiding. I'm not aware of the particular exhibition you cite as you haven't given any details - however I think it is fair to assume that it wasn't in particular promoting the hobby of metal detection but was trying to get those who do it to do it responsibly.

Finds of any kind around the country are important - but you merely have to look at the comments above to see that detectorists frequently don't have the first idea of what they are encountering

 

" You seem to be neglecting the fact that many metal detectors are actually responsible and aware people who do not damage sites but find random lost objects in fields where it is not possible for them to either do harm nor miss crucial non metal artifacts [sic] as the fields are regularly plowed[sic]." -

This shows you really haven't got a grip on this topic.........no find is "random" per se....... and detectors ca go beneath the plowed layer - all this to to do with the correct procedures for documenting a find - and judging by this comment you for one are unaware of the procedures. every find is unique and there are no assumptions to make about whether or not it is from a ploughed location  - they need correction documentation and removal.

Edited September 24, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[Shawn0000]

4 minutes ago, cumgranosalum said:

No I'm not - I think you are being deliberately obtuse because your first comments were clearly not giving the right impression and you now realise tat. - The whole point of what you describe and the point I'm making is that metal detectorists are way too frequently uneducated and irresponsible when scouring a site a point that you seem to be avoiding. I'm not aware of the particular exhibition you cite as you haven't given any details - however I think it is fair to assume that it wasn't in particular promoting the hobby of metal detection but was trying to get those who do it to do it responsibly.

Finds of any kind around the country are important - but you merely have to look at the comments above to see that detectorists frequently don't have the first idea of what they are encountering

 

Metal detecting is a popular hobby, if the museums were to only speak of the irresponsible ones and attempt to discourage people from doing it then they could only hope to achieve scaring people away from showing them their finds, they would only lose out.  By honoring the responsible metal detectors who do record their finds, who do listen to their advice and who do contribute, they make other metal detectors confident to talk to the museum and thus learn how to be responsible in their hobby.  The exhibition was indirectly promoting responsible metal detecting, by showing providence, mapped out finds etc, but it was also paying homage to the large contribution of the local metal detectors, a collection of coins that they would not have had without them.

[cumgranosalum]

48 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

Metal detecting is a popular hobby, if the museums were to only speak of the irresponsible ones and attempt to discourage people from doing it then they could only hope to achieve scaring people away from showing them their finds, they would only lose out.  By honoring the responsible metal detectors who do record their finds, who do listen to their advice and who do contribute, they make other metal detectors confident to talk to the museum and thus learn how to be responsible in their hobby.  The exhibition was indirectly promoting responsible metal detecting, by showing providence, mapped out finds etc, but it was also paying homage to the large contribution of the local metal detectors, a collection of coins that they would not have had without them.

"Metal detecting is a popular hobby, if the museums were to only speak of the irresponsible ones and attempt to discourage people from doing it then they could only hope to achieve scaring people away from showing them their finds, they would only lose out" - Yes I agree - that;'s why they try to educate the hobbyists - you are now repeating much of what I've said - but you like to use the word honouring - I rthink you now see my point of view.

i would like to see the Exhibition to which you are referring.

 

As for the rest you are just moving goalposts in a sad attempt to justify your hobby.

 

i might also add you appear to be holding up one example as a justification of your primary erroneous proposal. The fact remains that every council and museum in the country has to deal with the vast numbers of detectorists and all have some form of document opr campaign in an attempt to educate them what to do with finds. This is a big problem.

 

identification of it actually being significant in the first place is another matter we will never no how many finds have been discarded through lack of knowledge.

i

 

Edited September 24, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[Rimmer]

Some bickering posts and replies have been removed, its OK to discuss but please lets stay away from personal attacks, thank you.

 

Another baiting post has been removed, you will be well advised to stop this nonsense now or face a posting suspension.