New to Thai. I'm confused!

[medic5678]

Why does each letter of the Thai alphabet associate to animals or things?  In English, the letters don't associate to anything.  An A is an A, 

a B is a B, a C is a C.

 

I'm assuming that the combination of symbols produce sounds that are words when you read them, which is like English.

 

Can someone please help me here?  Thanks!

[tgeezer]

Because there are only about twenty sounds and forty four symbols. 'So' alone is not enough, we need to know which one of: So So, So Sala, So Reusi, So Seua .
Learning them all is a good grounding in all aspects of the language too because the mantras describe a picture. ก เอ๋ย ก.ไก่ เอ๋ย is a word showing love usually used for pets which chickens are to a little kid, so ก as a letter is well loved by Thai people from childhood, a good 'beak' when you write it is appreciated.


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[Oxx]

tgeezer is spot on.

 

However, associations are used in teaching English in a similar (albeit less standardised) manner.  A is for Apple, B is for Ball...

 

You might also draw a parallel with the NATO phonetic alphabet, Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, etc., where a name is given to each letter to distinguish them.  Otherwise "P" and "B", "C" and "Z" (American pronunciation) for example, sound very alike.

[cooked]

If this is the only thing you are confused about, consider yourself lucky. After five years I am still chipping away at new obstacles that raise their heads every time I learn something.

[tgeezer]

If this is the only thing you are confused about, consider yourself lucky. After five years I am still chipping away at new obstacles that raise their heads every time I learn something.

That is a very good observation, the more you know the more you realise how little you know. I never say that I can speak Thai now, I have been at it too long. I think that people are frightened to ask or answer for fear of seeming ignorant but we are supposed to be ignorant of Thai because it isn't our language and being a language there are no perfect answers to many questions, only opinions.


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[mania]

Quote

 

Why does each letter of the Thai alphabet associate to animals or things?  In English, the letters don't associate to anything.  An A is an A, 

a B is a B, a C is a C.

 

 

No actually English alphabet is taught in a similar way

 

A is for Apple

B is for Ball

C is for Cat

etc etc etc

 

It is just an association to a thing & a word that has the letter in it

Same as Thai

 

 

Edited September 24, 2016 by mania

[medic5678]

Ok.  So then there's not a "deeper" association  that I had somehow conjectured in my mind.  Certainly, there's a lot to learn here and I'm merely trying to become grade school functional over time.  I'm marrying a Thai lady and she's functional in English, so I think it's my duty to make a serious effort to learn her language.  I am sure that there's a lot more to this than I'll ever learn.  

 

Thanks guys.  I did buy a conversational Thai course.  I'd like to be able just to have a basic conversation with her family, who have all been awesome and really bend over backwards making me feel welcome.   It just seems unseemly to learn the language without the alphabet.  And so I begin my attempt to learn the language.   

[55Jay]

6 minutes ago, medic5678 said:

Ok.  So then there's not a "deeper" association  that I had somehow conjectured in my mind.  Certainly, there's a lot to learn here and I'm merely trying to become grade school functional over time.  I'm marrying a Thai lady and she's functional in English, so I think it's my duty to make a serious effort to learn her language.  I am sure that there's a lot more to this than I'll ever learn.  

 

Thanks guys.  I did buy a conversational Thai course.  I'd like to be able just to have a basic conversation with her family, who have all been awesome and really bend over backwards making me feel welcome.   It just seems unseemly to learn the language without the alphabet.  And so I begin my attempt to learn the language.   

I'm right there with you.  Anticipated starting a group course this month but the folks who signed up were already somewhat conversant, so looks like I'll start with private lessons, then hopefully join a group later.   I can parrot some words and phrases but I want to start at the beginning and get a decent foundation.

[tgeezer]

I can make a 'deeper association' กเอ๋ย ก ไก่ ข ไข่ในเล้า ฃ ขวดของเรา ฅ ฅนขึงขัง ค ควายเข้านา:
เล้า เรา เข้า show the tones.
5 new letters 9 new vocabulary: 7 nouns, 2 prepositions, 2 verbs.
In my experience this is not what people want and practical learning is done parrot fashion.





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[medic5678]

Well, just got the Pimsluer course "Conversational Thai".  And the website http://thai-language.com/ is excellent.  So this is enough to begin :).  Thanks everyone!

[Cedric28]

Any other websites which provide a good overview of the basics or even have free beginners courses?

[1FinickyOne]

Medic - good for you that you want to learn. From what I have seen, everyone has an approach that works better or worse for themselves... if it is conversation you are looking for, reading and knowing the alphabet can be helpful in assisting in hearing the sounds, but you may want to concentrate more on conversing... 

 

It is good to know beforehand that these languages do not translate directly - be patient, keep at it and enjoy. It will teach you about the culture too... 

[medic5678]

One quick question I have is about the Thai alphabet.   if you look at the letter chart on thai-language.com,  you see the first row of consonants.  The third is represented by the bottle, but the site says this is obsolete, as is the fifth (represented by a drawing of a man).

 

Does this basically mean I will never encounter these in everyday use as a practical matter?   It seems redundant and confusing that two letters have the same sound and tone. For example, the water buffalo and the man. the egg and the bottle.  So I will see the characters represented by the egg and the water buffalo, but not the bottle and the man?

 

All I can say is there is a whole lot to learn :).

[Oxx]

You're very unlikely to encounter either of these obsolete characters.  The only use of them that I can think of is the word ฅน (rather than คน) which is used by some people in the south as a symbol of their unhappiness of government by Bangkok.

[1FinickyOne]

2 hours ago, medic5678 said:

One quick question I have is about the Thai alphabet.   if you look at the letter chart on thai-language.com,  you see the first row of consonants.  The third is represented by the bottle, but the site says this is obsolete, as is the fifth (represented by a drawing of a man).

 

Does this basically mean I will never encounter these in everyday use as a practical matter?   It seems redundant and confusing that two letters have the same sound and tone. For example, the water buffalo and the man. the egg and the bottle.  So I will see the characters represented by the egg and the water buffalo, but not the bottle and the man?

 

All I can say is there is a whole lot to learn :).

 Hi Medic - part of learning Thai is going to be a matter of accepting that it is not going to be precise in an English sort of way... keep moving forward and don't get too hung up on the small things... 

[BringMeSunshine]

^ stongly agree with #15 - you need to let go of expecting things to "make sense".   See this article about the "Wall of Whyz":

http://womenlearnthai.com/index.php/breaking-down-the-wall-o-whyz-when-learning-thai/

 

also, don't learn the constants in a linear, a-z fashion - consonants fit into three distinct groups and learning all those in group 2 (mid) together {then group 3 (high); then group 1} will save you a lot of headache later on. 

 

 

David Smyth's book Teach Yourself Thai is very good for reading (either the 2003 original or the 2010 update).  Free mobile apps like LearnThaiFromAWhiteGuy are also a big help. 

 

 

All I can say is there is a whole lot to learn :).

You ain't seen nothing yet !

 

 

[Delight]

 The easiest way is to recognize that a consonant in isolation cannot be spoken.

 English Language B  & C etc. have implicit vowels i.e. the vowels are spoken but not written.

 

Any utterance from Man,  Beast, Reptile or Bird will always have a vowel sound within it.

A vowel is sound that when it is produced  is un blocked –fully or partially. A consonant sound is always blocked –fully or partially. The blocking is achieved with your lips and /or tongue .

 

The Thai writing system is pure. It recognizes that consonants in isolation cannot be spoken (or voiced)

 Thus the Thai consonant   writing system names the consonants using  every day terms to represent the sound . The spelling of these every day terms will incorporate the consonant in question

  A small word is prefixed to the ‘every day term ‘  to identify it as a consonant. These prefixed words is isolation have no meaning.

 

Example : The Thai word for a chicken is ‘Gai’

The consonant   is Gaw Gai.

[rijb]

The names of the consonants are acrophonic and intended to help with learning them.

 

All languages are filtered through a child's mind.  And that determines what aspects survive.

Edited October 1, 2016 by rijb