Pound drops to lowest level since 1985

[cumgranosalum]

"Project Fear"?

Brexiteers seem sensitive to the point of paranoia of criticism....

 

""The hyped-up Eurosceptics in the Conservative Party have never looked happier, men in their fifties, sixties and seventies, who declare that Britain’s departure from the EU will be “glorious.” But their extreme sensitivity to even the gentlest criticism of Brexit is not suggestive of confidence." - Jay Elwes, Propect Magazine

Edited October 16, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[chiang mai]

Just now, cumgranosalum said:

Brexiteers seem sensitive to the point of paraoia of criticism....

 

""The hyped-up Eurosceptics in the Conservative Party have never looked happier, men in their fifties, sixties and seventies, who declare that Britain’s departure from the EU will be “glorious.” But their extreme sensitivity to even the gentlest criticism of Brexit is not suggestive of confidence." - Jay Elwes, Propect Magazine

 

They are on this forum at least!

[MJP]

Spoke with a forex broker mate yesterday and he reckons the Pound could reach 34 to the Baht, perhaps lower. It's only just begun.

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

"Retailers are poised to impose a wave of price rises that could add 5 per cent to shopping bills in the new year after the pound plunged by more than the worst forecast of so-called ‘Project Fear’. The hikes, expected to hit soon after Christmas, will cost consumers an estimated £15billion next year.

A slew of executives from supermarkets, fashion retailers and suppliers have issued warnings. Most declined to be named – saying the issue has become too political – but all predicted price rises of at least 5 per cent. One leading fashion retail boss told The Mail on Sunday he was already seeing suppliers asking for price rises of 10 per cent.

This is something consumers need to get used to,’ he said. ‘Suppliers operating in dollars or euros have had a 15 per cent rise in their costs as a result of the referendum and more recently because of the lack of any plan following that. This is a major issue and it is coming to your shelves soon.’

Well over half the goods sold in UK shops are imported. Retail executives said this would mean the slump in the pound would result in an average price hike of at least 7.5 per cent. Some of that increase could be absorbed by suppliers and retailers, but about 5 per cent would end up being paid by shoppers.

Sables said retail spending in Britain totalled £300billion so a 5 per cent price rise would amount to £15billion".

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/news/article-3839836/Retailers-prepare-hike-prices-5-Christmas-pound-plunges-Project-Fear-forecasts.html

 

I'm getting a bit fed up with the type of post quoted above, so I'm going to be be a bit blunt: What type of intelligent person posts a link to an article that quotes unnamed sources whose political affiliations and motivations can't therefore be verified? Answer: Intelligent people don't post such idiotic links.

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

 

I'm getting a bit fed up with the type of post quoted above, so I'm going to be be a bit blunt: What type of intelligent person posts a link to an article that quotes unnamed sources whose political affiliations and motivations can't therefore be verified? Answer: Intelligent people don't post such idiotic links.

 

Open the link and read the article! The comments made in it are mostly all attributed to named individuals including Lord Haskins Sir Ken Morrison and named KPMG staff, or is that too difficult to do and you didn't want to pass up an opportunity to insult.

[cumgranosalum]

5 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

I'm getting a bit fed up with the type of post quoted above, so I'm going to be be a bit blunt: What type of intelligent person posts a link to an article that quotes unnamed sources whose political affiliations and motivations can't therefore be verified? Answer: Intelligent people don't post such idiotic links.

Paranioa - QED

[cumgranosalum]

No-one in their right mind would suggest that the fall in the pound is anything else but the result of Brexit. THis is not in dispute.

however the Brexiteers rather than argue this point - which odf course they can't - resort to deriding those who continue to oppose Brexit.....

 

this just seems to sum up the irrationality of their gainsaying (it really doesn't qualify as a reasoned argument) ...

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[AlexRich]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

 

Open the link and read the article! The comments made in it are mostly all attributed to named individuals including Lord Haskins Sir Ken Morrison and named KPMG staff, or is that too difficult to do and you didn't want to pass up an opportunity to insult.

 

Some people will only accept scientific evidence from peer reviewed academic papers ... if it's critical of Brexit, but happily accept comments from comic books like The Sun if it supports "taking back control" or other such nonsense! 

 

[SaintLouisBlues]

2 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Some people will only accept scientific evidence from peer reviewed academic papers ... if it's critical of Brexit, but happily accept comments from comic books like The Sun if it supports "taking back control" or other such nonsense! 

It's a well-known phenomenon known as "confirmation bias". You can see endless examples of it every minute on Thaivisa

[AlexRich]

1 minute ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

It's a well-known phenomenon known as "confirmation bias". You can see endless examples of it every minute on Thaivisa

 

Yes. And more than that ... if it all goes awry the same people will be telling us all how much worse things would have been under  the EU ... they disingenuously call for 'evidence' and 'citations' but would never acknowledge them. 

 

"Brexit could lead to an economic shock" ... Sky News quoting Boris Johnson's unpublished article in support of Remain. But he supported 'Leave' because he felt it was his best chance of being Prime minister. 

[SaintLouisBlues]

Just now, AlexRich said:

 

Yes. And more than that ... if it all goes awry the same people will be telling us all how much worse things would have been under  the EU ... they disingenuously call for 'evidence' and 'citations' but would never acknowledge them. 

 

"Brexit could lead to an economic shock" ... Sky News quoting Boris Johnson's unpublished article in support of Remain. But he supported 'Leave' because he felt it was his best chance of being Prime minister. 

Thank you for providing proof of my statement

[nontabury]

14 hours ago, up-country_sinclair said:

I've been reading that many analysts think that the GBP could drop another 8% by year end.    Eventually there has to be a rebound, but another 8% is going to be painful for many Brits living abroad.

 

 Yet the chief currency buyer for Barclays,stated only last week,that in his opinion the £ is well undervalued, and he expects an increase of 10% in the new year.So who know which way the £ is going to go. Maybe it is those manipulators whose vested interest is in trying to scare the electorate. Companies like Unilever who have failed in their attempt to unjustifiably raise the prices of many of their products. 

  Unilever whose Dutch boss, on a yearly salary of 10 million £ 's, told his lower paid workforce in the run-up to the EU referendum,to reject Britex. Now I wonder why,could it be for the same reason that other international business men and Bankers and their corrupt political friends also wanted the UK to remain in the EU,and who are now attempting to reverse the democratic decision of the electorate through the courts.

  

 

 

Edited October 16, 2016 by nontabury

[Grouse]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-people-want-a-soft-brexit-putting-the-economy-ahead-of-cutting-immigration-poll-a7363336.html%3famp?client=safari

 

Everything you ever wanted to know but never dared ask!

[Grouse]

9 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

 Yet the chief currency buyer for Barclays,stated only last week,that in his opinion the £ is well undervalued, and he expects an increase of 10% in the new year.So who know which way the £ is going to go. Maybe it is those manipulators whose vested interest is in trying to scare the electorate. Companies like Unilever who have failed in their attempt to unjustifiably raise the prices of many of their products. 

  Unilever whose Dutch boss, on a yearly salary of 10 million £ 's, told his lower paid workforce in the run-up to the EU referendum,to reject Britex. Now I wonder why,could it be for the same reason that other international business men and Bankers and their corrupt political friends also wanted the UK to remain in the EU,and who are now attempting to reverse the democratic decision of the electorate through the courts.

  

 

 

 

So many falsehoods here that I don't have time to write a rebuttal to all of them. Can we just settle on tripe? Mind you, Nontabury is a Yorkshire man who probably likes tripe! The problem with hard Brexiteers is that they can not accept any point of disagreement. The result is they just lose credibility ?

[chiang mai]

17 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

 Yet the chief currency buyer for Barclays,stated only last week,that in his opinion the £ is well undervalued, and he expects an increase of 10% in the new year.So who know which way the £ is going to go. Maybe it is those manipulators whose vested interest is in trying to scare the electorate. Companies like Unilever who have failed in their attempt to unjustifiably raise the prices of many of their products. 

  Unilever whose Dutch boss, on a yearly salary of 10 million £ 's, told his lower paid workforce in the run-up to the EU referendum,to reject Britex. Now I wonder why,could it be for the same reason that other international business men and Bankers and their corrupt political friends also wanted the UK to remain in the EU,and who are now attempting to reverse the democratic decision of the electorate through the courts.

  

 

 

Oh dear oh dear oh dear, whatever are we to do with you NB! Indeed Barclays did say:

 

"Barclays believe Pound Sterling undervalued at current levels and they projected it to move higher against the Euro over coming months".

 

Sadly they said that on 22 August, just before Sterling fell  another12%.

 

Oops!

 

https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/eur/5334-gbp-to-eur-conversion-forecast-barc-343

[ilostmypassword]

39 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

 Yet the chief currency buyer for Barclays,stated only last week,that in his opinion the £ is well undervalued, and he expects an increase of 10% in the new year.So who know which way the £ is going to go. Maybe it is those manipulators whose vested interest is in trying to scare the electorate. Companies like Unilever who have failed in their attempt to unjustifiably raise the prices of many of their products. 

  Unilever whose Dutch boss, on a yearly salary of 10 million £ 's, told his lower paid workforce in the run-up to the EU referendum,to reject Britex. Now I wonder why,could it be for the same reason that other international business men and Bankers and their corrupt political friends also wanted the UK to remain in the EU,and who are now attempting to reverse the democratic decision of the electorate through the courts.

  

 

 

This is a good example of Trumpthink.  You know, when events don't play out the way you thought they should, blame a conspiracy.

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

This is a good example of Trumpthink.  You know, when events don't play out the way you thought they should, blame a conspiracy.

 

Actually that's a great example of a person desperate to deliver a positive and contradictory message, even at the expense of fact and the truth, we've seen the same thing in these debates oh so many times and always by the same usual suspects.

[cumgranosalum]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

 

 Yet the chief currency buyer for Barclays,stated only last week,that in his opinion the £ is well undervalued, and he expects an increase of 10% in the new year.So who know which way the £ is going to go. Maybe it is those manipulators whose vested interest is in trying to scare the electorate. Companies like Unilever who have failed in their attempt to unjustifiably raise the prices of many of their products. 

  Unilever whose Dutch boss, on a yearly salary of 10 million £ 's, told his lower paid workforce in the run-up to the EU referendum,to reject Britex. Now I wonder why,could it be for the same reason that other international business men and Bankers and their corrupt political friends also wanted the UK to remain in the EU,and who are now attempting to reverse the democratic decision of the electorate through the courts.

  

 

 

..and by the same token, never let a Brexiteer will allow it either.

[cumgranosalum]

1 hour ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

It's a well-known phenomenon known as "confirmation bias". You can see endless examples of it every minute on Thaivisa

Also accompanied by the scienific theory that states if something is broken, the best way to fix it is to kick it.

[Grouse]

http://www.economist.com/blogs/buttonwood/2016/10/economic-impact-devaluations?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/ed/

 

Want to argue with The Economist? I wouldn't recommend it.....

[Grouse]

There's more

 

http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21708724-fall-sterling-hints-how-painful-hard-brexit-would-be-taking-pounding

 

Please. Listen to the truth. Please.

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

There's more

 

http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21708724-fall-sterling-hints-how-painful-hard-brexit-would-be-taking-pounding

 

Please. Listen to the truth. Please.

 

Speculation isn't 'the truth'. And speculation by a clearly remain journalist who won't even put their name to it. Pathetic.

[Khun Han]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/buttonwood/2016/10/economic-impact-devaluations?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/ed/

 

Want to argue with The Economist? I wouldn't recommend it.....

 

It's a blog by "Buttonwood", an ardent remainer. Didn't you notice?

Edited October 16, 2016 by Khun Han

[cumgranosalum]

Another "ardent remainer" apparently is Boris Johnson - but then judging by his face after the referendum we all knew that didn't we?

 

Boris Johnson secret newspaper column favoured UK remaining in EU

Edited October 16, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[cumgranosalum]

20 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

It's a blog by "Buttonwood", an ardent remainer. Didn't you notice?

It is an important fact to bear in mind that people who argue that Brexit was a bad idea often write articles suggesting this. This kind of thought helps you analyse an article properly - however I notice that it has slipped passed quite a few Brostricheers in the last few weeks as they abandon all hope and turn to quixotic fantasy and paraniod ramblings about "remoaners"

Edited October 16, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

 

Speculation isn't 'the truth'. And speculation by a clearly remain journalist who won't even put their name to it. Pathetic.

 

I'm sorry Han, really I am. Your failure to concede any point just weakens you. I can tell you don't subscribe to The Economist otherwise you would know that they usually don't provide by lines.

 

Now unless you're going to provide your credentials, I'm going to say that The Economist trumps your opinion on everything including what you have for tea tonight.

 

Now stop being silly and debate the points properly. OK?

[Xircal]

21 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Re: Nissan. I would suggest you read the last three or four pages of this thread.

 

Siemens was used as an example because it's Europe's biggest. Plenty of other multinationals, such as GSK (which doesn't fit your parameters), have re-committed with even more investment.

 

"The pharmaceutical firm, whose chief executive Sir Andrew Witty backed the Remain campaign, said the UK's skilled workforce and competitive tax system helped drive the decision.

It said most of the products made at the expanded sites would be exported."

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36901027

 

And the list is growing as companies realise that the UK economy is not going to tank as predicted by the scaremongers.

 

The problem at the moment is nobody knows what kind of deal Britain will get. Donald Tusk who will preside over all the Brexit negotiations has already stated that Britain is either in or out meaning that unless its prepared to accept free movement of people, it will mean the latter: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/hard-brexit-no-latest-soft-eu-referendum-donald-tusk-theresa-may-britain-a7360406.html

 

Now if you consider that the EU is a market 1½ times bigger than the US it's not difficult to envisage that if Britain refuses the accept the terms the EU will be offering which includes the above mentioned point then it's going to mean a complete divorce. If that's the way it ends up then being excluded from a market of 500 million consumers won't fare wel with investors since exports will be subject to punitive tariffs and mountains of red tape.

 

You mentioned GSK, but that's already a British company so it's logical to assume that they'll continue to invest in their own organisation. But how they'll fare when exports to the EU are subject to 10% import duty which will hit profits is difficult to say at the moment. Same goes for everyone else.

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

 

Speculation isn't 'the truth'. And speculation by a clearly remain journalist who won't even put their name to it. Pathetic.

 

I assume you have never read The Economist before (which is a bit if a giveaway) because there are no journalist names against any articles in the magazine.

[rockingrobin]

25 minutes ago, Xircal said:

 

The problem at the moment is nobody knows what kind of deal Britain will get. Donald Tusk who will preside over all the Brexit negotiations has already stated that Britain is either in or out meaning that unless its prepared to accept free movement of people, it will mean the latter: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/hard-brexit-no-latest-soft-eu-referendum-donald-tusk-theresa-may-britain-a7360406.html

 

Now if you consider that the EU is a market 1½ times bigger than the US it's not difficult to envisage that if Britain refuses the accept the terms the EU will be offering which includes the above mentioned point then it's going to mean a complete divorce. If that's the way it ends up then being excluded from a market of 500 million consumers won't fare wel with investors since exports will be subject to punitive tariffs and mountains of red tape.

 

You mentioned GSK, but that's already a British company so it's logical to assume that they'll continue to invest in their own organisation. But how they'll fare when exports to the EU are subject to 10% import duty which will hit profits is difficult to say at the moment. Same goes for everyone else.

The logical conclusion is if Nissan have a deal the exit strategy is known

[Khun Han]

40 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

I'm sorry Han, really I am. Your failure to concede any point just weakens you. I can tell you don't subscribe to The Economist otherwise you would know that they usually don't provide by lines.

 

Now unless you're going to provide your credentials, I'm going to say that The Economist trumps your opinion on everything including what you have for tea tonight.

 

Now stop being silly and debate the points properly. OK?

 

Let's discuss the article by the anonymous journalist first, shall we? The one that you're pleading with us to believe.

 

The author concedes that the economy is currently doing fine, and addresses some of the reasons. They (is it a 'he' or a 'she'?) then go on to speculate that the economy won't carry on doing fine because of previous complacency in taking up the slack by UK industry, and a failure by the government to address this complacency (wrong: Liam Fox addressed it very publicly).

 

It also speculates that the ecomomy will suffer if investment my major companies dries up. Which kind of goes against the current trend of major companies reaffirming and in many cases upping their investments now that they've seen that the economy is doing fine.

 

There is also a nice, healthy dose of 'brexiters this' and 'brexiters that', which gives away the writer's leanings.

 

It's a shame the author couldn't put their name to this piece: we would have been able to find out what they were predicting pre-referendum (but I suspect I know the answer anyway), which I'm shortly going to do with 'Buttonwood'.