May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Flustered]

29 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Do you think it is possible to exit as a completely independent country, and retain the trading agreement we currently have without concessions on the feedom of movement for example?

 

 

That was not your original question. You are adding factors to it. Who knows what will be agreed?

 

Regardless of what anyone thinks might happen. No one will know until such time as the negotiations are over.

[mommysboy]

Just now, Flustered said:

That was not your original question. You are adding factors to it. Who knows what will be agreed?

 

Regardless of what anyone thinks might happen. No one will know until such time as the negotiations are over.

I was trying to clarify what you (or anybody else) wants or thinks is achievable as a trade deal.  It's not a trick question!  Let me flesh out a few options:

 

1. Single market Norway version.

2. The Canadian style deal.

3. No deal.

4. A special bespoke deal (but please outline the bare bones with some rationale).

 

I think we can only realistically expect to leave without a deal, and then as an independent nation negotiate a Canadian style deal. I do however think that some fudge is likely straight away regarding the financial markets.

[Loaded]

1 hour ago, rockingrobin said:

The EU as a customs union is as such  not strictly bound by WTO rules on MFN

The EU is a customs union but the UK will not be in the EU customs union so trade between the UK and EU will be bound by WTO rules.

[Flustered]

11 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

I was trying to clarify what you (or anybody else) wants or thinks is achievable as a trade deal.  It's not a trick question!  Let me flesh out a few options:

 

1. Single market Norway version.

2. The Canadian style deal.

3. No deal.

4. A special bespoke deal (but please outline the bare bones with some rationale).

 

I think we can only realistically expect to leave without a deal, and then as an independent nation negotiate a Canadian style deal. I do however think that some fudge is likely straight away regarding the financial markets.

None of the above. Like Brexit means Brexit, the deal will be what the deal is. We can all hope for the best possible outcome but at the end of the day, it is what it is.

 

My own hopes are that the politicians in the EU who depend on votes from working people will start to put pressure on Frau Merkel, Junkers and Barnier to be realistic and stop this anti British stance that they are taking.

 

Just imagine the German politicians telling the tens of thousands of laid off car and industrial workers that it is OK because we taught the British a lesson.

 

Imagine the Spanish politicians telling the tens of thousands of laid off farm workers or cafe owners or hoteliers etc. that is is OK because we taught the British a lesson and never mind the recession we are now in because of it?

 

And finally just imagine the Polish politicians telling the 800,000 Poles that live and work in the UK that it does not matter that their benefits and security in the UK has ended as we taught the British a lesson.

 

Theresa May wanted to ensure EU and UK citizens rights months ago. Frau Merkel and now Michel Barnier have said a resounding NO. You must agree the money you owe us first.

 

Britain is acting in a mature and dignified manner while the EU clowns are insulting us and determined to punish us to prevent any other country from leaving their utopian dream.

 

[rockingrobin]

4 minutes ago, Loaded said:

The EU is a customs union but the UK will not be in the EU customs union so trade between the UK and EU will be bound by WTO rules.

Exactly, I dont understand what you are saying. 

At present the UK is in the customs union, upon leaving and operating under WTO it cannot be the same as prior

[mommysboy]

2 minutes ago, Flustered said:

None of the above. Like Brexit means Brexit, the deal will be what the deal is. We can all hope for the best possible outcome but at the end of the day, it is what it is.

 

My own hopes are that the politicians in the EU who depend on votes from working people will start to put pressure on Frau Merkel, Junkers and Barnier to be realistic and stop this anti British stance that they are taking.

 

Just imagine the German politicians telling the tens of thousands of laid off car and industrial workers that it is OK because we taught the British a lesson.

 

Imagine the Spanish politicians telling the tens of thousands of laid off farm workers or cafe owners or hoteliers etc. that is is OK because we taught the British a lesson and never mind the recession we are now in because of it?

 

And finally just imagine the Polish politicians telling the 800,000 Poles that live and work in the UK that it does not matter that their benefits and security in the UK has ended as we taught the British a lesson.

 

Theresa May wanted to ensure EU and UK citizens rights months ago. Frau Merkel and now Michel Barnier have said a resounding NO. You must agree the money you owe us first.

 

Britain is acting in a mature and dignified manner while the EU clowns are insulting us and determined to punish us to prevent any other country from leaving their utopian dream.

 

 It's a straight question about what you want or expect.  I am not asking you to say what it will be.  If you believe what you have written above, you may believe it is possible to obtain a truly free trade deal.   Fair enough!  But what's the big deal in just saying it?

[citybiker]

 

Well what do you expect the main thrust to be? 

 

You must have thought about it.

 

Ok, a short summary as the Brexit is very complex. (IMO)

 

It mainly boils down to the EU & UK 'willing to compromise' in certain area's, a hard Brexit is TM ace card (ideally avoided though)* & if you look at the detail of the A50 script given to the EU a bilateral security & intelligence just to name other factor's.

 

It's well recognised the EU/UK want reciprocal deal on citizen's rights which will be priority, as for ECJ, EAW, CPP, and numerous other issues the list is endless & mind boggling. The EU won't want to compromise on their vital pillar's however I suspect an 'association member' with single market fee access will apply so as to get around their pillar's policy.

 

The EU want to remain political mafia bosses & its priority is deter the domino affect.

 

*UK overseas investment & companies affected.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[mommysboy]

1 minute ago, citybiker said:

 

Ok, a short summary as the Brexit is very complex. (IMO)

It mainly boils down to the EU & UK 'willing to compromise' in certain area's, a hard Brexit is TM ace card (ideally avoided though)* & if you look at the detail of the A50 script given to the EU a bilateral security & intelligence just to name to factor's.

It's well recognised the EU/UK want reciprocal deal on citizen's rights which will be priority, as for ECJ, EAW, CPP, and numerous other issues the list is endless & mind boggling. The EU won't want to compromise on their vital pillar's however I suspect an 'association member' with single market fee access will apply so as to get around their pillar's policy.

The EU want to remain political mafia bosses & its priority is deter the domino affect.

*UK overseas investment & companies affected.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Great answer. I hope this proves to be the case.

[Naam]

31 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

1. Single market Norway version.

2. The Canadian style deal.

i'd say a mixture of both and for years to come we'll have to listen to the boasting büllshyte from politicians of either channel side how successful and fruitful the negotiations were conducted in favour of (check applicable):

o The United Kingdom

o The European Union

 

 

[tprender]

The EU is a customs union but the UK will not be in the EU customs union so trade between the UK and EU will be bound by WTO rules.

Seems simple enough to me, being in the Single Market means signing up to all their rules, paying into the budget and having absolutely no say about it. Being in the Customs Union precludes the UK from signing new trade deals around the world. Frankly I can't see the German car industry being very happy losing their second biggest car market or the French wine and food producers being ecstatic either.

Sent from my Lenovo K52e78 using Tapatalk

[Naam]

3 minutes ago, citybiker said:

The EU want to remain political mafia bosses & its priority is deter the domino affect.

ridiculous! for a potential domino effect please take a look how many of the 'domino' countries are net beneficiaries because of EU membership.

 

[mommysboy]

4 minutes ago, tprender said:

 

Seems simple enough to me, being in the Single Market means signing up to all their rules, paying into the budget and having absolutely no say about it. Being in the Customs Union precludes the UK from signing new trade deals around the world. Frankly I can't see the German car industry being very happy losing their second biggest car market or the French wine and food producers being ecstatic either.

Sent from my Lenovo K52e78 using Tapatalk
 

Germany and France will still trade with the UK, and vice-versa.  Germany wouldn't suddenly lose all of its UK sales.  Just what impact there would be depends on the tariff.  I think it is quite low for cars.

 

Much is made of tariffs, but access is really the key question: how easy it is to trade.  I suppose that then becomes an exercise in back scratching.

[tprender]

Germany and France will still trade with the UK, and vice-versa.  Germany wouldn't suddenly lose all of its UK sales.  Just what impact there would be depends on the tariff.  I think it is quite low for cars.
 
Much is made of tariffs, but access is really the key question: how easy it is to trade.  I suppose that then becomes an exercise in back scratching.

Exactly, mutual self interest will prevail. Anyway the likes of Juncker et al won't be around soon.

Sent from my Lenovo K52e78 using Tapatalk

[nauseus]

7 hours ago, Grouse said:

You made the point that the "victor didn't get the spoils". Are you retracting that?

No. Why ask that?

[nauseus]

7 hours ago, Grouse said:

And another thing. While we await the result of the French presidential elections, let's look at pensions.

 

Now I know that those who have been supported by the tax payer (teachers, police, military, heath workers etc) have reasonable pensions, many others do not

 

https://www.compareyourcountry.org/pensions

 

Why do Europeans have substantially more generous pensions than the U.K.? 

 

Is it the fault of the EU or our own fault?

 

Be careful what you wish for Brexiteers! ?

Nope, don't want to talk about pensions.

[nauseus]

7 hours ago, Grouse said:

I'm not deaf but I CAN read

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan

 

See how much the U.K. Received compared to all other beneficiaries!

 

As for reparations, look at Versailles after WW1. That was a good idea wasn't it?

 

It's ALWAYS somebody else's fault, isn't it! Usually the Hun, the Krauts, or the Bosch ?

 

(BTW, "cost" of reunification to date is about 4 months German GDP. Pretty good investment? What does the UK invest in?)

This was not a reply to you anyway. You get the hump as quickly as Mrs. Merkel.

[Basil B]

Quote

Dover Banksy mural shows star chiselled off EU flag

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-39837963

[Khun Han]

2 hours ago, Basil B said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-39837963

 

alows a bit more room for the sixteen ones that are missing. Or do you only get a star when you've made your first credit payment?

[metisdead]

Offensive posts and replies have been removed. 

[nontabury]

People have correctly pointed out that the UK is now devoid of it's manufacturing industry. Others ask where does the large British contributions go.

 

This is a great post, detailing the absurdity of remaining in the EU, we currently have the Lib Dums advocating to stay in and Labour all over the place on Brexit.

This is why we are leaving. Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
 

[Naam]

15 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Just to clear things up: Is it safe to assume that everyone on this forum perceives that UK cannot expect to leave the EU and retain the trading arrangement within the EU that it currently has?

 

safe²

[pitrevie]

12 minutes ago, nontabury said:

People have correctly pointed out that the UK is now devoid of it's manufacturing industry. Others ask where does the large British contributions go.

 

This is a great post, detailing the absurdity of remaining in the EU, we currently have the Lib Dums advocating to stay in and Labour all over the place on Brexit.

This is why we are leaving. Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
 

Quite an amazing list and yet somehow  German industry grows and thrives maybe they are in a different EU.

[Grouse]

21 minutes ago, nontabury said:

People have correctly pointed out that the UK is now devoid of it's manufacturing industry. Others ask where does the large British contributions go.

 

This is a great post, detailing the absurdity of remaining in the EU, we currently have the Lib Dums advocating to stay in and Labour all over the place on Brexit.

This is why we are leaving. Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
 

and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

 

Please explain? This is news to me.

 

Why did you omit Dyson, the Brexiteer hero? He does his manufacturing in Malaysia!

 

The reasons for locating manufacturing plants are manifold. It's not just employee remuneration; look at Germany. What grants do the Con government offer? What about infrastructure? What about UK relationship with EU? We should be top at high tech development and manufacturing. We have the brains. But what about capital? Berlin is booming. It's not all bad news but much of it is. Car manufacturing is at risk unless the Con Party covers the costs of duties and customs procedures.

 

Shame it will be difficult for Brits to work at any of these plants- engineers, IT, robotics, automation, AI, product design....

Edited May 8, 2017 by Grouse

[Naam]

16 hours ago, Loaded said:

The EU will be prevented from setting punitive tariffs against UK imports because according to the schedules they trade under at the WTO, they cannot exceed their maximum stated tariff (boundary tariff) plus if they impose a boundary tariff on one country, they must impose on all countries - this isn't going to happen.

of course it's not going to happen. not to forget that any punity tariffs exist only in the phantasies of hardline blinker wearing Brexiteers who hate the EU.

[mommysboy]

5 minutes ago, nontabury said:

People have correctly pointed out that the UK is now devoid of it's manufacturing industry. Others ask where does the large British contributions go.

 

This is a great post, detailing the absurdity of remaining in the EU, we currently have the Lib Dums advocating to stay in and Labour all over the place on Brexit.

This is why we are leaving. Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
 

OK.  But what will change when we leave the EU?  Why will UK suddenly be the sort of place that manufacturing comes back to?

 

Investment will generally go to places that have low costs.

 

Those 1000 jobs that have left will become 500 and then 250 as automation takes hold.

 

With the UK, its more about attitude- short term profit versus long term gain.  Ironically, it is unchecked capitalism that has made matters worse.  The remedy will not be even more of it.

 

Lower wages, less rights,  lower business taxes, a weak pound, and less red tape- all things that Brexit will inevitably bring about- should inevitably help business thrive however, though its underclass will suffer.  Perhaps this is the only medicine!  But it is hardly a cause for celebration.

 

 

[Naam]

9 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

Quite an amazing list and yet somehow  German industry grows and thrives maybe they are in a different EU.

you forget that the Tchermanns have a secret way to drain cash from the EU coffers. they built an underground pipeline from Brussels to the Bundesbank in Frankfurt and whenever cash is low they switch on a big fan which sucks the cash (mainly the British contributions) into the Bundesbank vaults.

[pitrevie]

30 minutes ago, nontabury said:

People have correctly pointed out that the UK is now devoid of it's manufacturing industry. Others ask where does the large British contributions go.

 

This is a great post, detailing the absurdity of remaining in the EU, we currently have the Lib Dums advocating to stay in and Labour all over the place on Brexit.

This is why we are leaving. Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
 

Also you will find that many on your list are just not true.

http://ilovetheeu.co.uk/trade/no-the-eu-does-not-fund-companies-to-move-jobs-out-of-the-uk/

 

[Naam]

1 minute ago, pitrevie said:

Also you will find that many on your list are just not true.

http://ilovetheeu.co.uk/trade/no-the-eu-does-not-fund-companies-to-move-jobs-out-of-the-uk/

 

ssshhhh... no facts please!

[mommysboy]

Poor productivity is a big issue in the UK.  There might be many reasons other than citing a lazy workforce: poor investment on the shopfloor, workers pushed beyond limits possibly. It might also be that we are essentially service based.

 

Regrettably, I doubt this will be solved with a simple 'exit stamp'.  I doubt too that the Government will raise one finger to help, as at the heart of Conservatism is the belief in 'laissez- faire'.  Note, however, it was ok to chuck money at errant banks.

[teddog]

2 hours ago, nontabury said:

People have correctly pointed out that the UK is now devoid of it's manufacturing industry. Others ask where does the large British contributions go.

 

This is a great post, detailing the absurdity of remaining in the EU, we currently have the Lib Dums advocating to stay in and Labour all over the place on Brexit.

This is why we are leaving. Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
 

 

 

Wish my missus would bugger off with an EU grant