May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Grouse]

32 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

It truly is bizarre to read over and over again how the UK is doing post-Brexit.  It's not post-Brexit yet and most likely it won't be for at least more than 2 years.  It's also worth pointing out the the government has actually increased spending to stimulate the economy and increased the budget shortfall. I'm not saying that's a bad thing but they are practicing Keynesian economics to help shield the economy in case investment in the UK decreases.

 

If you want numpties to understand that, you would have to turn it into a little song ?

[jimmybkk]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

Not true. There was a concerted effort to explain the risks bluntly in the hope that even numpties would get it. Most if not all predictions came true. As you might have noticed, Sterling is down 20%. Growth is down though not in recession thanks to Carney's efforts. Manufacturing and construction ARE in recession. Inflation will soar and probably force interest rates to rise significantly. Carney saved the country's bacon in the short term. Your opinion is off the wall.

 

Either provide references and citations or else you're simply dressing up your opinion in flowery language in order to dissuade people from arguing against you. Seen it too many times pal <yawn!>. Next you'll be talking about straw man arguments and ad hominem... so transparent.

 

Incidentally, your constant reference to "numpties" is nothing more than ad hominem... Why be so dismissive?

 

Tell you what, seeing as how you're the expert, why not offer your answers to the questions Osborne struggled with here: http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/transcript-george-osborne-vs-andrew-neil-brexit/

[Grouse]

42 minutes ago, jimmybkk said:

 

Either provide references and citations or else you're simply dressing up your opinion in flowery language in order to dissuade people from arguing against you. Seen it too many times pal <yawn!>. Next you'll be talking about straw man arguments and ad hominem... so transparent.

 

Incidentally, your constant reference to "numpties" is nothing more than ad hominem... Why be so dismissive?

 

Tell you what, seeing as how you're the expert, why not offer your answers to the questions Osborne struggled with here: http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/transcript-george-osborne-vs-andrew-neil-brexit/

 

What on earth are you talking about "PAL"?

 

Are you doubting the precipitous fall in Sterling?

 

Do you doubt growth in Q3 at 0.5% was down from 0.7% in Q2, albeit 0.2% better than expected and being supported by 0.8% growth in services (particularly financial) against declining manufacturing and construction?

 

Do you doubt the upswing in racists attacks (45% in three months)?

 

Do you doubt there is serious upward pressure on inflation?

 

Do you doubt May had to provide Ghosn with a letter of indemnification before he would confirm continuing at Sunderland?

 

I do not accuse you of being a numpty. However, if you want to classify yourself As a member of that esteemed group, be my guest ?

 

As for flowery language, I will not apologise for having an excellent education. Do you read The Economist by chance? No? Thought not ?

 

Nice to have a bit of sun today!

Edited October 30, 2016 by Grouse

[jimmybkk]

13 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

What on earth are you talking about "PAL"?

 

Are you doubting the precipitous fall in Sterling?

 

Do you doubt growth in Q3 at 0.5% was down from 0.7% in Q2, albeit 0.2% better than expected and being supported by 0.8% growth in services (particularly financial) against declining manufacturing and construction?

 

Do you doubt the upswing in racists attacks (45% in three months)?

 

Do you doubt there is serious upward pressure on inflation?

 

Do you doubt May had to provide Ghosn with a letter of indemnification before he would confirm continuing at Sunderland?

 

I do not accuse you of being a numpty. However, if you want to classify yourself As a member of that esteemed group, be my guest ?

 

As for flowery language, I will not apologise for having an excellent education. Do you read The Economist by chance? No? Thought not ?

 

Nice to have a bit of sun today!

 

Uhmmm... Lots of hot air... but no references, sources or citations ,eh? Guess we'll just have to take your word for it then.

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

If you want numpties to understand that, you would have to turn it into a little song ?

I don't hold with name calling people who disagree with me. If, in fact, someone is as you characterize them, it's much more effective to point out the flaws in their reasoning or information.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, jimmybkk said:

 

Uhmmm... Lots of hot air... but no references, sources or citations ,eh? Guess we'll just have to take your word for it then.

 

Read something like The Economist.

[Grouse]

45 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

I don't hold with name calling people who disagree with me. If, in fact, someone is as you characterize them, it's much more effective to point out the flaws in their reasoning or information.

 

I was of course just joking but I accept the reprimand with good grace.

 

Incidentally, I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me. I have adopted this term "numpty" to classify those who voted in a crucially important referendum without taking the time to research the issues properly.

?

[chiang mai]

6 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

It's a common affliction among remainers. Always getting ahead of themselves in their eagerness to proclaim The Great Brexit Catastrophe.

 

All you guys want to do is complain about the other guys and the minutiae and verbiage, no data to support anything you say, no articles opinions or scholarly reviews, just rhetoric - bl*ody boring and a complete waste of time, really.

[Khun Han]

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

Not true. There was a concerted effort to explain the risks bluntly in the hope that even numpties would get it. Most if not all predictions came true. As you might have noticed, Sterling is down 20%. Growth is down though not in recession thanks to Carney's efforts. Manufacturing and construction ARE in recession. Inflation will soar and probably force interest rates to rise significantly. Carney saved the country's bacon in the short term. Your opinion is off the wall.

 

This is starting to get surreal! Most of Project Fear's predictions did not come true. The UK economy was forecast by them to be contracting and heading toward recession by now. It's growing instead. Big companies were forecast by them to be to be pulling out of the UK in droves by now. They're committing to bigger investments in the UK instead. Both sides of the argument correctly predicted a fall in the value of Sterling with a brexit referendum victory.

 

These claims from remainers that their economic predictions have proven to be correct are pure 'Alice Through The Looking Glass' material.

[Khun Han]

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

No. Germany and France see holding the EU together as their strategic imperative. If that means taking an economic hit so be it.

 

Yet you claim that the idea of the UK remain camp wanting us to take an economic hit to try to keep us in the EU is absurd. UK remain (Project Fear) and the EU seem to be on the same page with this strategy.

[Khun Han]

On the latest figures for UK manufacturing:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37583196

[Johnyo]

 

This is starting to get surreal! Most of Project Fear's predictions did not come true. The UK economy was forecast by them to be contracting and heading toward recession by now. It's growing instead. Big companies were forecast by them to be to be pulling out of the UK in droves by now. They're committing to bigger investments in the UK instead. Both sides of the argument correctly predicted a fall in the value of Sterling with a brexit referendum victory.ere

 

These claims from remainers that their ext economic predictions have proven to be correct are pure 'Alice Through The Looking Glass' material.

Not sure how to explain to you that you are still in the EU and you will be for the better part of the next two years. It's thanks to the fact the UK is still in the single market that the economy has been progressing. The effects of leaving the EU won't be felt until the next decade.

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[Khun Han]

Just now, Johnyo said:

 

Not sure how to explain to you that you are still in the EU and you will be for the better part of the better part of the next two years. It's thanks to the fact the UK is still in the single market that the economy has been progressing. The effects of leaving the EU won't be felt until the next decade.


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And I'm not sure how much more simply I can explain this to you: remain predicted that the economic effects of a brexit referendum win would be immediate, sustained and catastrophic, not after the process triggered by Article 50 has concluded. Remain was wrong.

[jaidam]

1 minute ago, Johnyo said:

 

Not sure how to explain to you that you are still in the EU and you will be for the better part of the better part of the next two years. It's thanks to the fact the UK is still in the single market that the economy has been progressing. The effects of leaving the EU won't be felt until the next decade.


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 Should somebody not have told the Project Fear boys that it would take a decade for any effect? Surely between them the governor of the BOE, the chancellor of the exchequer, and the sitting PM could have realized there would be no need for a special tax to cover budgetary shortfall? Or do markets react in anticipation of events, and factor in all available info - helped by the advent of the interweb thing.

 

 Remainers just can't face the facts that Brexit has been a boost for consumer confidence and business confidence. FTSE level pretty much tells the story. 

[Johnyo]

 Should somebody not have told the Project Fear boys that it would take a decade for any effect? Surely between them the governor of the BOE, the chancellor of the exchequer, and the sitting PM could have realized there would be no need for a special tax to cover budgetary shortfall? Or do markets react in anticipation of events, and factor in all available info - helped by the advent of the interweb thing.
 
 Remainers just can't face the facts that Brexit has been a boost for consumer confidence and business confidence. FTSE level pretty much tells the story. 

Your last paragraph is the most delusional I have read in a very long time.


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[Johnyo]

 
And I'm not sure how much more simply I can explain this to you: remain predicted that the economic effects of a brexit referendum win would be immediate, sustained and catastrophic, not after the process triggered by Article 50 has concluded. Remain was wrong.

If I remember correctly Cameron said that he would trigger article 50 the day after the election. We will never really know if those predictions would have com true as he bailed out like a true Tory coward.


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[Grouse]

More on Nissan from The Economist (Incidentally, if you register you can read a limited number of articles at no charge each week - strongly recommended

 

http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21709323-nissan-announces-it-staying-put-sighs-relief-parked

[Khun Han]

17 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

 

If I remember correctly Cameron said that he would trigger article 50 the day after the election. We will never really know if those predictions would have com true as he bailed out like a true Tory coward.


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Notwithstanding the fact that most of the remain economists have admitted their immediate forecasts were wrong (they didn't have much of a choice, did they?), you predicted a few posts ago that the economic problems won't really start until we've actually left the EU at the end of the two year negotiation period.

[Khun Han]

20 minutes ago, Grouse said:

More on Nissan from The Economist (Incidentally, if you register you can read a limited number of articles at no charge each week - strongly recommended

 

http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21709323-nissan-announces-it-staying-put-sighs-relief-parked

 

Thanks for the link. Whilst the article doesn't add anything to the bigger picture, it's concise and well-written, and contains some new (to me) local background information.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

 

This is starting to get surreal! Most of Project Fear's predictions did not come true. The UK economy was forecast by them to be contracting and heading toward recession by now. It's growing instead. Big companies were forecast by them to be to be pulling out of the UK in droves by now. They're committing to bigger investments in the UK instead. Both sides of the argument correctly predicted a fall in the value of Sterling with a brexit referendum victory.

 

These claims from remainers that their economic predictions have proven to be correct are pure 'Alice Through The Looking Glass' material.

 

Did you read my earlier post? Growth down to 0.5% and that boosted by 0.8% growth in services and despite both manufacturing and construction in decline. Even was due by quick action to avoid recession by BoE.

 

Nissan had to be indemnified before they would agree to remain.

 

GSK are here because of our pointy heads and despite other matters. However, a brain drain is starting.....

 

More Stephen King than Lewis Carroll I think....

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

 

Yet you claim that the idea of the UK remain camp wanting us to take an economic hit to try to keep us in the EU is absurd. UK remain (Project Fear) and the EU seem to be on the same page with this strategy.

 

I don't understand that !!

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

 

And I'm not sure how much more simply I can explain this to you: remain predicted that the economic effects of a brexit referendum win would be immediate, sustained and catastrophic, not after the process triggered by Article 50 has concluded. Remain was wrong.

 

You don't think a 20% fall in the value of the UK is catastrophic?

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, jaidam said:

 Should somebody not have told the Project Fear boys that it would take a decade for any effect? Surely between them the governor of the BOE, the chancellor of the exchequer, and the sitting PM could have realized there would be no need for a special tax to cover budgetary shortfall? Or do markets react in anticipation of events, and factor in all available info - helped by the advent of the interweb thing.

 

 Remainers just can't face the facts that Brexit has been a boost for consumer confidence and business confidence. FTSE level pretty much tells the story. 

 

How do I deal with this politely?

 

Have you seen the trade deficit? How is that to be financed moving forward?

 

FTSE100 is up because of multinationals repatriating foreign profits and restating the value of foreign assets

 

Look, I'm just an engineer but this is general knowledge stuff.....

Edited October 30, 2016 by Grouse

[Ace of Pop]

If I resign from a club that's ripped my family of,that's it Why talk to the Bums


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[happy Joe]

59 minutes ago, Grouse said:

More on Nissan from The Economist (Incidentally, if you register you can read a limited number of articles at no charge each week - strongly recommended

 

http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21709323-nissan-announces-it-staying-put-sighs-relief-parked

 

That does not say your article and all posters seem to ignore is that Nissan is 50% owned the French Renault. 50/50 (joint venture).

 

The group has just taken control of Mitsubishi Motors to become the 3rd World manufacturer. Carlos Ghosn will be also the chairman

.

Sunderland workers will continue to work for Europe. This certainly applies to a particular status that can not be taken as a reference for other companies.

 

[Grouse]

48 minutes ago, Ace of Pop said:

If I resign from a club that's ripped my family of,that's it Why talk to the Bums


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I'm sorry, I don't understand that!

[Grouse]

32 minutes ago, happy Joe said:

 

That does not say your article and all posters seem to ignore is that Nissan is 50% owned the French Renault. 50/50 (joint venture).

 

The group has just taken control of Mitsubishi Motors to become the 3rd World manufacturer. Carlos Ghosn will be also the chairman

.

Sunderland workers will continue to work for Europe. This certainly applies to a particular status that can not be taken as a reference for other companies.

 

 

I knew of the Renault connection of course ( do you know how Brexiteers pronounce Renault? Extraordinary!) but I didn't know Mitsubishi was now in the same group.

 

Dont you see that the plot thickens? Why not use Renault plants in Europe? Must have been quite a letter ?

 

Does having a plant in Sunderland make them a 3rd World manufacturer? ?

[SheungWan]

Notwithstanding some forum Brexiteers noisily trying to add Nissan to the pro-Brexit fold, one of this weekend's FT front page headlines reads 'Nissan warned ministers it would leave UK without post-brexit guarantees'. To quote the introductory paragraph: 'Nissan warned the government it would wind down UK operations if it was not guaranteed competitive trading conditions with Europe....'

[Johnyo]

Notwithstanding some forum Brexiteers noisily trying to add Nissan to the pro-Brexit fold, one of this weekend's FT front page headlines reads 'Nissan warned ministers it would leave UK without post-brexit guarantees'. To quote the introductory paragraph: 'Nissan warned the government it would wind down UK operations if it was not guaranteed competitive trading conditions with Europe....'

Khun Han will be telling you that this is unsubstantiated negative propaganda so you better start looking for comprehensive recordings of these conversations.


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[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

 

Did you read my earlier post? Growth down to 0.5% and that boosted by 0.8% growth in services and despite both manufacturing and construction in decline. Even was due by quick action to avoid recession by BoE.

 

Nissan had to be indemnified before they would agree to remain.

 

GSK are here because of our pointy heads and despite other matters. However, a brain drain is starting.....

 

More Stephen King than Lewis Carroll I think....

 

Latest figures are that manufacturing was down in July but up in August, so, depending on how you want to interpret the staristics, it's up. Didn't you read my link?

 

Economic contraction was forecast, so 0.5% growth means it's up on even the most recent forecasts, and has been hailed as a positive everywhere excect by negative remainers.

 

An I see the forum myth-making is still in action over the nature of the Nissan about-turn.

 

GSK (no better place to do business, they said when recently announcing a big new investment), Siemens, AstraZeneca, on it goes. All are increasing their investments in Britain, and confounding the naysayers  ('But.....but.....they're all special cases').