May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[SheungWan]

5 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

fair point - but the British Establishment is a much more sophisticated , well oiled engine of progress compared to the military dictatorship and business interests which is Thailand.  Which has also had to accomodate 'the will of the people' over the centuries or risk destruiction.

The British Establishment hasn't been a well-oiled engine since Suez, notwithstanding James Bond.

[beautifulthailand99]

Just now, SheungWan said:

The British Establishment hasn't been a well-oiled engine since Suez, notwithstanding James Bond.

compared to their developing country counterparts they are a veritable Rolls-Royce.

[SheungWan]

2 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

compared to their developing country counterparts they are a veritable Rolls-Royce.

In a forum thread about Brexit, hardly a worthwhile or useful comparison in any way whatsoever.

[nauseus]

7 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

There is no such thing as 'free British' - you are not free not to pay your taxes , not free to settle land you don't own , not free to withold your children from the dictates of the state , or drive a car without a licence.  And last time I looked just 5 families owned 10% of the nations wealth. This myth that free of the EU 'we' will be masters of our own destiny - is just that a myth. We are born free but are everywhere in chains. And in the end is probably to settle for the best deal that promises peace and prosperity. Brexit offers neither and I lay the blame firmly at the foot of Etonian Cameron's feet who has played fast and loose with the stability of the UK for a short term political position which turned out he didn't even need. There are a lot of good people who voted Brexit , I'm sure , but whatever happens you won't be getting some heady 'freedom' anytime soon I'm afraid.

Utter gobbledygook. Where are people free to steal land or not pay taxes within the EU? Why should anyone, anywhere be free to drive a car without a licence? Your selection of "freedoms" are like a crap box of chocolates. 

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

There is no such thing as 'free British' - you are not free not to pay your taxes , not free to settle land you don't own , not free to withold your children from the dictates of the state , or drive a car without a licence.  And last time I looked just 5 families owned 10% of the nations wealth. This myth that free of the EU 'we' will be masters of our own destiny - is just that a myth. We are born free but are everywhere in chains. And in the end is probably to settle for the best deal that promises peace and prosperity. Brexit offers neither and I lay the blame firmly at the foot of Etonian Cameron's feet who has played fast and loose with the stability of the UK for a short term political position which turned out he didn't even need. There are a lot of good people who voted Brexit , I'm sure , but whatever happens you won't be getting some heady 'freedom' anytime soon I'm afraid.

 

But, if a real brexit happens, we will be getting away from eventual German control of the UK, and all that will come with it. And anybody pretending that this is not the way that the EU is headed is incredibly deluded or actually wants it.

[onthesoi]

2 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

But, if a real brexit happens, we will be getting away from eventual German control of the UK, and all that will come with it. And anybody pretending that this is not the way that the EU is headed is incredibly deluded or actually wants it.

 

It would be great if the Germans did take control of the UK instead of the current chinless wonders who even on a good day struggle to find their arse with both hands.

[AlexRich]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

Immigration was second on my list after sovereignty and I've said that here before.

 

Any nation staying in this dubious "union", unless there is serious and major reform, will probably shortly lose control of its military, tax system, foreign policy, currency and other assets. The youngsters will lose their birthright to be free British or whatever. These oldies with any vision are actually trying to protect the kids from this. 

 

"Burdened them with an ageing populace to pay for" is a very cruel statement and can be only the opinion of a thoughtless, thankless individual. Snowflake kids, like those interviewed on TV after the referendum (but mainly in London), have the same outlook. But who will care for them in future years when nobody gives a poop at all?  

 

 

 

 

The "thoughtless and thankless" are those that are happy to sell out other people's futures so they don't have to see a few more immigrants on their streets ... but we've seen their reaction when their own interests are threatened by dementia taxes and winter fuel allowances ... they've had their free education, bought their council houses cheaply, and tied in a nice pension ... and lumbered the young with student debt and unaffordable housing .... add to that the reduced possibilities Post Brexit and a high tax burden to keep up the cost of healthcare and pensions of those that royally shafted them. What an ungrateful bunch of "snowflakes" they are?

[pegman]

9 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Nothing wrong with the poorer UK segement of society becoming "anti-immigration protesters".

 

They've had enough of even poorer immigrants being allowed into the country,  and thereby reducing salaries for everyone - apart from those at the top of course.....

My family came to North America starting in 1631 (Puritans) from places like Bedford, Milton, Ilam, Runcorn, Ulster................. None of them had big money. They would be ashamed to hear how immigrants are being talked about. The UK sent off as many people to other lands as any other place on earth. What happened to the famous  Britsh tolerance I learned at my Liverpool born grandmother's knee?

[HauptmannUK]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

 

But, if a real brexit happens, we will be getting away from eventual German control of the UK, and all that will come with it. And anybody pretending that this is not the way that the EU is headed is incredibly deluded or actually wants it.

My God, if Germany took control of the UK the quality of life of the average British worker would improve beyond measure. I lived and worked in Germany for several years (hence the username I adopted for this forum). The average German worker is better housed, better educated, better pension, more holiday, better taken care of by the health service etc.  - and ditto their kids. One of my biggest regrets was coming back to the UK.  The average worker in the UK gets an absolutely <deleted> deal compared to his German counterpart. Was trying to get back to Germany again, but now too close to retirement so will sit it out in the UK.

I'm as patriotic as the next guy (my father was an officer in the Navy in WWII) - but patriotism shouldn't be a substitute for rational thought.

[HauptmannUK]

11 minutes ago, pegman said:

My family came to North America starting in 1631 (Puritans) from places like Bedford, Milton, Ilam, Runcorn, Ulster................. None of them had big money. They would be ashamed to hear how immigrants are being talked about. The UK sent off as many people to other lands as any other place on earth. What happened to the famous  Britsh tolerance I learned at my Liverpool born grandmother's knee?

Immigration didn't greatly benefit the native population of North America, did it?

Also, having lived and worked in the US for a time I didn't detect much tolerance toward immigrants from the American populace - certainly not toward those coming up from south of the border.....

[AlexRich]

17 minutes ago, HauptmannUK said:

My God, if Germany took control of the UK the quality of life of the average British worker would improve beyond measure. I lived and worked in Germany for several years (hence the username I adopted for this forum). The average German worker is better housed, better educated, better pension, more holiday, better taken care of by the health service etc.  - and ditto their kids. One of my biggest regrets was coming back to the UK.  The average worker in the UK gets an absolutely <deleted> deal compared to his German counterpart. Was trying to get back to Germany again, but now too close to retirement so will sit it out in the UK.

I'm as patriotic as the next guy (my father was an officer in the Navy in WWII) - but patriotism shouldn't be a substitute for rational thought.

Your thoughts are wasted on Captain Mainwaring ... he still thinks we're at war!

[pegman]

14 minutes ago, HauptmannUK said:

Immigration didn't greatly benefit the native population of North America, did it?

Also, having lived and worked in the US for a time I didn't detect much tolerance toward immigrants from the American populace - certainly not toward those coming up from south of the border.....

My family moved north with the Empire Loyalists when the domestic terrorists took over in the 1780's. Those left behind got caught up in the greed mentality that took hold there. I can assure you that a great many  natives in Canada live an idle life on taxpayers expence today.

[pitrevie]

4 hours ago, AlexRich said:

Your thoughts are wasted on Captain Mainwaring ... he still thinks we're at war!

The guy you are referring to is truly amazing, rarely do a few posts go by without some rant about Germany. I suppose he does know that hostilities ceased in 1945.

[Khun Han]

7 hours ago, HauptmannUK said:

My God, if Germany took control of the UK the quality of life of the average British worker would improve beyond measure. I lived and worked in Germany for several years (hence the username I adopted for this forum). The average German worker is better housed, better educated, better pension, more holiday, better taken care of by the health service etc.  - and ditto their kids. One of my biggest regrets was coming back to the UK.  The average worker in the UK gets an absolutely <deleted> deal compared to his German counterpart. Was trying to get back to Germany again, but now too close to retirement so will sit it out in the UK.

I'm as patriotic as the next guy (my father was an officer in the Navy in WWII) - but patriotism shouldn't be a substitute for rational thought.

 

What you think of Germans/Germany is irrelevant. The point is that Germany is using the EU to gain strong control over it's fellow EU member states. If you're ok with that, then fine. But be careful what you wish for.

[pitrevie]

15 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

What you think of Germans/Germany is irrelevant. The point is that Germany is using the EU to gain strong control over it's fellow EU member states. If you're ok with that, then fine. But be careful what you wish for.

Like most countries Germany has enough problems of its own without wishing to control anything or anyone. However by now we are used to your periodic rants whenever someone mentions Germany. 

 

 

[SheungWan]

7 hours ago, pegman said:

My family moved north with the Empire Loyalists when the domestic terrorists took over in the 1780's. Those left behind got caught up in the greed mentality that took hold there. I can assure you that a great many  natives in Canada live an idle life on taxpayers expence today.

Excellent!

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Perhaps my memory is playing up - but I could have sworn the the media was pointing out before Greece joined the EU, that figures were being fudged.

 

Assuming my memory is wrong - its incomprehensible that the EU didn't already know that Greece was 'misrepresenting significant economic data'.  If the EU didn't realise this, they were even more incompetent than previously thought.....

You never know what goes on behind closed doors. The EU initiated the 2004 audit but you could be right, may have been a preemtive strike, something we will never know.

At the end of the day the Greeks knew they were cheating the system and effectively cut their own cloth.

[sandyf]

8 hours ago, HauptmannUK said:

My God, if Germany took control of the UK the quality of life of the average British worker would improve beyond measure. I lived and worked in Germany for several years (hence the username I adopted for this forum). The average German worker is better housed, better educated, better pension, more holiday, better taken care of by the health service etc.  - and ditto their kids. One of my biggest regrets was coming back to the UK.  The average worker in the UK gets an absolutely <deleted> deal compared to his German counterpart. Was trying to get back to Germany again, but now too close to retirement so will sit it out in the UK.

I'm as patriotic as the next guy (my father was an officer in the Navy in WWII) - but patriotism shouldn't be a substitute for rational thought.

Quite. When I was stationed in Germany in 1972 a guy I went to school with came to work locally, a real life "Auf Wiedersehen Pet". As a building labourer he was earning 3 times what I was as a SNCO defending the realm.

 

PS. Just a reminder that was the good old days before the UK entered the EEC.

Edited June 2, 2017 by sandyf

[SheungWan]

8 hours ago, HauptmannUK said:

My God, if Germany took control of the UK the quality of life of the average British worker would improve beyond measure. I lived and worked in Germany for several years (hence the username I adopted for this forum). The average German worker is better housed, better educated, better pension, more holiday, better taken care of by the health service etc.  - and ditto their kids. One of my biggest regrets was coming back to the UK.  The average worker in the UK gets an absolutely <deleted> deal compared to his German counterpart. Was trying to get back to Germany again, but now too close to retirement so will sit it out in the UK.

I'm as patriotic as the next guy (my father was an officer in the Navy in WWII) - but patriotism shouldn't be a substitute for rational thought.

You are so mistaken! Patriotism is an excellent substitute for rational thought.

[pitrevie]

8 hours ago, HauptmannUK said:

My God, if Germany took control of the UK the quality of life of the average British worker would improve beyond measure. I lived and worked in Germany for several years (hence the username I adopted for this forum). The average German worker is better housed, better educated, better pension, more holiday, better taken care of by the health service etc.  - and ditto their kids. One of my biggest regrets was coming back to the UK.  The average worker in the UK gets an absolutely <deleted> deal compared to his German counterpart. Was trying to get back to Germany again, but now too close to retirement so will sit it out in the UK.

I'm as patriotic as the next guy (my father was an officer in the Navy in WWII) - but patriotism shouldn't be a substitute for rational thought.

Couldn't agree more I too had the same experience and it was a big wrench to return to the UK. One thing that still sticks in my mind was the married quarters which was one out of four blocks in the local village the other three being occupied by German Nationals. One of my married friends invited me to dinner and he mentioned the four blocks and I asked him how would I know which was the one belonging to the British families. He told me when you get there you will know and I did. The other three were immaculate outside, the British block was, well figure it out.

[Khun Han]

17 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

You are so mistaken! Patriotism is an excellent substitute for rational thought.

 

Patriotism is considered by the liberal left to be perfectly acceptable for every country in the world except the UK (or more specifically England), where it becomes a dirty word and subject to all kinds of infantile ridicule, as expressed by certain posters in these discussions.

[pitrevie]

12 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Patriotism is considered by the liberal left to be perfectly acceptable for every country in the world except the UK (or more specifically England), where it becomes a dirty word and subject to all kinds of infantile ridicule, as expressed by certain posters in these discussions.

Nope its very simple whenever you see a national leader wrapping themselves in the flag whether they be left or right its time to start counting the spoons.

[AlexRich]

4 hours ago, pitrevie said:

The guy you are referring to is truly amazing, rarely do a few posts go by without some rant about Germany. I suppose he does know that hostilities ceased in 1945.

 

His constant references to Germany underlie his Little England mentality; there's no hiding his pointless hatred. 

[dick dasterdly]

10 hours ago, onthesoi said:

 

It would be great if the Germans did take control of the UK instead of the current chinless wonders who even on a good day struggle to find their arse with both hands.

 

9 hours ago, HauptmannUK said:

My God, if Germany took control of the UK the quality of life of the average British worker would improve beyond measure. I lived and worked in Germany for several years (hence the username I adopted for this forum). The average German worker is better housed, better educated, better pension, more holiday, better taken care of by the health service etc.  - and ditto their kids. One of my biggest regrets was coming back to the UK.  The average worker in the UK gets an absolutely <deleted> deal compared to his German counterpart. Was trying to get back to Germany again, but now too close to retirement so will sit it out in the UK.

I'm as patriotic as the next guy (my father was an officer in the Navy in WWII) - but patriotism shouldn't be a substitute for rational thought.

 

2 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

What you think of Germans/Germany is irrelevant. The point is that Germany is using the EU to gain strong control over it's fellow EU member states. If you're ok with that, then fine. But be careful what you wish for.

I largely agree with these posts and have no doubt that the Germans have come up with far better capital/labour workplace practices than the UK.  Some of this has filtered down to the UK via EU policies.

 

On the other hand, I've no doubt that the EU (mainly Germany, as its by far the most important 'power' in the EU) are empire building by stealth.

[nauseus]

10 hours ago, AlexRich said:

The "thoughtless and thankless" are those that are happy to sell out other people's futures so they don't have to see a few more immigrants on their streets ... but we've seen their reaction when their own interests are threatened by dementia taxes and winter fuel allowances ... they've had their free education, bought their council houses cheaply, and tied in a nice pension ... and lumbered the young with student debt and unaffordable housing .... add to that the reduced possibilities Post Brexit and a high tax burden to keep up the cost of healthcare and pensions of those that royally shafted them. What an ungrateful bunch of "snowflakes" they are?

You don't respond to most of the points in my post so I will assume that that is too difficult for you. You vision is so narrow that you are now blaming OAPs for the mismanagement of successive poor governments. Ridiculous! Most of the oldies have individually done the best for their kids as they could afford - what do you want to do, just leave them to rot or apply a lifespan cap and just euthanize them?  

[AlexRich]

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

You don't respond to most of the points in my post so I will assume that that is too difficult for you. You vision is so narrow that you are now blaming OAPs for the mismanagement of successive poor governments. Ridiculous! Most of the oldies have individually done the best for their kids as they could afford - what do you want to do, just leave them to rot or apply a lifespan cap and just euthanize them?  

 

You can assume whatever you like ... I suspect that you are exactly the type I'm referring to ... voting for something with consequences for other people way beyond your own lifetime ... something that, whatever the outcome of the vote, does not negatively impact you in any way. If you live in Thailand you are an immigrant in another country ... perhaps the Thais should have there own referendum and kick you out?

 

[dick dasterdly]

11 hours ago, AlexRich said:

The "thoughtless and thankless" are those that are happy to sell out other people's futures so they don't have to see a few more immigrants on their streets ... but we've seen their reaction when their own interests are threatened by dementia taxes and winter fuel allowances ... they've had their free education, bought their council houses cheaply, and tied in a nice pension ... and lumbered the young with student debt and unaffordable housing .... add to that the reduced possibilities Post Brexit and a high tax burden to keep up the cost of healthcare and pensions of those that royally shafted them. What an ungrateful bunch of "snowflakes" they are?

You're ascribing a set of made-up reasons for everyone who voted brexit.....

 

This annoyed me the most though - "they've had their free education, bought their council houses cheaply, and tied in a nice pension ... and lumbered the young with student debt and unaffordable housing".

 

Blame various UK governments for continually reducing/destroying most of these - not old people!

[SheungWan]

56 minutes ago, nauseus said:

You don't respond to most of the points in my post so I will assume that that is too difficult for you. You vision is so narrow that you are now blaming OAPs for the mismanagement of successive poor governments. Ridiculous! Most of the oldies have individually done the best for their kids as they could afford - what do you want to do, just leave them to rot or apply a lifespan cap and just euthanize them?  

I think all the older people I know in Pattaya are the ones who have been left to rot.

Edited June 2, 2017 by SheungWan

[AlexRich]

Just now, dick dasterdly said:

You're ascribing a set of made-up reasons for everyone who voted brexit.....

 

This annoyed me the most though - "they've had their free education, bought their council houses cheaply, and tied in a nice pension ... and lumbered the young with student debt and unaffordable housing".

 

Blame various UK governments for continually reducing/destroying most of these - not old people!

Governments that they voted for! Just look at the recent poll reaction to dementia tax and fuel allowance ... the politicians craft policies for votes, and change them when the polls don't look too good. And look how they've all jumped on the Brexit bandwagon, despite thinking that it is a bad idea. Vote for me and I'll tell you it's a great idea. So people who don't like immigration policy throw the younger generations future under the bus ... easy decision to make when it doesn't impact on you negatively. The vast debt burden of the State is really just stealing from the future ... but don't worry, you won't have to deal with it, others will.

 

And please, no one tell me that Brexit was not about immigration ... without that perceived issue it would never have happened. 

 

 

[nauseus]

26 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

You can assume whatever you like ... I suspect that you are exactly the type I'm referring to ... voting for something with consequences for other people way beyond your own lifetime ... something that, whatever the outcome of the vote, does not negatively impact you in any way. If you live in Thailand you are an immigrant in another country ... perhaps the Thais should have there own referendum and kick you out?

 

You can't even accept that others have a different view of the EU from you, typical of those who still can't accept the result of a fair referendum. You think that the consequences of leaving the EU are bad - I think they are good and I have explained why I believe the vote went the way it did. You still can't respond properly but instead just go straight into personal accusations. Now it sounds like you want to remove the right to vote for people over 60, 50, or even 40 perhaps, so that seniors cannot impact the future of the juniors? Is that fair enough? Is it hell!

 

Thailand has the right to referendums and the right to kick anyone out, I suppose. But it is not in the EU or anything close, is it?