May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[AlexRich]

8 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Alex I think you underestimate peoples ability to understand what they believe, choose or want. I like all my friends know that, forty plus years of strangling the UK and taking away, bit by bit, its ability to feed itself, manufacture many products and  has made it become a service country. Of course I knew it wouldn't be a 'walk in the park' especially the way the EU has been set up, to control and punish anyone who dares question it. This is the great thing since the referendum. People can see the EU exactly what it is about. A group of unelected, undemocratic bunch of non British people dictating and forming a federalized Europe, telling the UK what and when to do that. the people of the UK have had enough. The EU, is so pne way thinking, it can't even see it. It arrogance will be its demise. It can't reform because it has a hidden agenda and that agenda is becoming more and more obvious. It is about taking sovereignty away and identities from the people and creating a united states of Europe.

 

I don't care what it takes to get out. We, my friends and I, who all voted out was very much aware of the EU and we were took into it, on  a lie and want out. 17 plus million also knew the same. Don't use the 'they didn't understand or know the consequences. They did. This whole post referendum has just highlighted how bad the EU is. It has not come out favourably and in fact, its reputation is even worse than before.

 

I watched a Sky News doc recently where a lady voted "because of the NHS" ... looks like she'll be disappointed then, doesn't it?

 

The EU made the UK become a 'service country'? Do you not think that we did that ourselves? A narrow majority voted to leave the EU in a referendum, but a very large minority did not ... so we should just ignore them and plough ahead with an extreme exit, without any reference to our own laws and parliament? That, in my view, is a recipe for disaster. No debate and no plan as to what form the exit will take? We're all expected to take a walk in the dark to a destination that will be determined by right-wing Tories and UKIP racists. It looks like there will be scrutiny and debate, and not before time.

 

 

 

 

[AlexRich]

6 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Possibly, possibly not. Either way Brexit will happen I am convinced. My worry is the in fighting it is causing is not doing the country any good, the exact opposite.

The 49.1 percent had their voice heard at the referendum. It was a simple stay in or leave. That's what happens in referendums there is  a vote, a winner and loser. Not a we come second so we can dictate what we want. That seems to be a problem with those who voted remain, accepting the outcome of a simple in or out.  It was never with conditions.

 

Seems like Farage disagreed, he stated on the eve of the election he would continue fighting for exit if they lost by a narrow majority. People that voted to stay take the same view ... what's sauce for the goose. And if you think about it, if 49% of the voters are railroaded down the 'hard Brexit' path then they had better not make any mistakes, because a large minority may become a larger majority ... May will need to have an election, and it might not turn out as well as they think.

 

 

[AlexRich]

5 hours ago, jpinx said:

 

 -- but it does not answer the question of why the referendum was set up and the result not accepted?

 

The result has been accepted by most MPs and most of the public ... but the referendum said nothing about what form that exit would take ... and that is what needs to be scrutinised and debated in parliament. The judges interpreted the law correctly ... and people who claim they want UK law to be the final arbiter are upset by it?

 

[chiang mai]

8 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Alex I think you underestimate peoples ability to understand what they believe, choose or want. I like all my friends know that, forty plus years of strangling the UK and taking away, bit by bit, its ability to feed itself, manufacture many products and  has made it become a service country. Of course I knew it wouldn't be a 'walk in the park' especially the way the EU has been set up, to control and punish anyone who dares question it. This is the great thing since the referendum. People can see the EU exactly what it is about. A group of unelected, undemocratic bunch of non British people dictating and forming a federalized Europe, telling the UK what and when to do that. the people of the UK have had enough. The EU, is so pne way thinking, it can't even see it. It arrogance will be its demise. It can't reform because it has a hidden agenda and that agenda is becoming more and more obvious. It is about taking sovereignty away and identities from the people and creating a united states of Europe.

 

I don't care what it takes to get out. We, my friends and I, who all voted out was very much aware of the EU and we were took into it, on  a lie and want out. 17 plus million also knew the same. Don't use the 'they didn't understand or know the consequences. They did. This whole post referendum has just highlighted how bad the EU is. It has not come out favourably and in fact, its reputation is even worse than before.

 

"Don't use the 'they didn't understand or know the consequences. They did."

 

That's the thing Gravy they didn't and they still don't, nobody does because based on the option we chose going forward it will mean those consequences are substantially different. It could mean, AND I USE EXTREMES TO MAKE THE POINT, a substantially shrunken economy where state pensions are abolished for other than the most needy, simply because we don't have the funds, or it could mean no change at all, or it could mean a very bright and prosperous future where indeed we are all better off. It's a bit like saying you can walk across a mine field without getting hurt, until you reach the other side you will never know.

[jpinx]

11 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

The result has been accepted by most MPs and most of the public ... but the referendum said nothing about what form that exit would take ... and that is what needs to be scrutinised and debated in parliament. The judges interpreted the law correctly ... and people who claim they want UK law to be the final arbiter are upset by it?

 

 

Correct - a fast track motion to enact Art 50 and then as much debate about the "deals" as the politicians want.  The point is, the longer they delay Art 50, the longer we live in limbo with the wild swings in confidence according to newspaper headlines

 

I know I said I was done here, but it's a boring day in the office

[jpinx]

Just as well USA is mired in it's own mudhole and can't stick it's nose in to Brexit too much.    Many other non-EU countries appear to be wondering what all the fuss is about and are just waiting for an Independent UK to do trade deals with.

[SheungWan]

6 hours ago, StefanBBK said:

What is all that fuss about. Just get out. Simple as that.

 

The fuss is about the process and the timing. Your wish to 'just get out' is just one political position. Simplistic and head in the sand.

[SheungWan]

9 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Alex I think you underestimate peoples ability to understand what they believe, choose or want. I like all my friends know that, forty plus years of strangling the UK and taking away, bit by bit, its ability to feed itself, manufacture many products and  has made it become a service country. Of course I knew it wouldn't be a 'walk in the park' especially the way the EU has been set up, to control and punish anyone who dares question it. This is the great thing since the referendum. People can see the EU exactly what it is about. A group of unelected, undemocratic bunch of non British people dictating and forming a federalized Europe, telling the UK what and when to do that. the people of the UK have had enough. The EU, is so pne way thinking, it can't even see it. It arrogance will be its demise. It can't reform because it has a hidden agenda and that agenda is becoming more and more obvious. It is about taking sovereignty away and identities from the people and creating a united states of Europe.

 

I don't care what it takes to get out. We, my friends and I, who all voted out was very much aware of the EU and we were took into it, on  a lie and want out. 17 plus million also knew the same. Don't use the 'they didn't understand or know the consequences. They did. This whole post referendum has just highlighted how bad the EU is. It has not come out favourably and in fact, its reputation is even worse than before.

 

Clearly your friends should be directing the government and the High Court what to do.

[Khun Han]

1 minute ago, SheungWan said:

 

Clearly your friends should be directing the government and the High Court what to do.

 

No currency rants today?

[SheungWan]

6 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

No currency rants today?

 

Sterling has bounced in response to High Court decision.  Bottom in for now. Will probably stay up until December 7? when the government's appeal to the Supreme Court is held. If the government loses that then there is a decent chance that sterling can improve to my trigger 45 baht point.

[jpinx]

15 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

Sterling has bounced in response to High Court decision.  Bottom in for now. Will probably stay up until December 7? when the government's appeal to the Supreme Court is held. If the government loses that then there is a decent chance that sterling can improve to my trigger 45 baht point.

 

Pull that trigger !!  :D:D

[HauptmannUK]

1 hour ago, jpinx said:

Just as well USA is mired in it's own mudhole and can't stick it's nose in to Brexit too much.    Many other non-EU countries appear to be wondering what all the fuss is about and are just waiting for an Independent UK to do trade deals with.

Many non-EU countries are shocked that the UK has pulled out of the EU. You don't seem to realise how badly this decision has gone down internationally - how much reputational damage has been done to the UK.

I spent most of September trying to drum up business in China. On 20th I was talking to a room full of potential customers in Nanjing. Everyone was asking about Brexit and how it would impact on the stability of supply and the ability to honour long-term contracts.

There has been a lot of acceptable economic news recently - but its mostly based on retrospective data and the fulfillment of orders from more than six months ago.

Going forward its going to get tough. No doubt about it. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.

I have never been on a trade mission where all parties didn't want to do a deal. The devil's in the detail though. Usually the thing falls apart because both sides can't agree. I don't see the UK getting better deals with China and India than we have via the EU. We just don't have the muscle.

Edited November 6, 2016 by HauptmannUK

[jpinx]

1 minute ago, HauptmannUK said:

Many non-EU countries are shocked that the UK has pulled out of the EU. You don't seem to realise how badly this decision has gone down internationally - how much reputational damage has been done to the UK.

I spent most of September trying to drum up business in China. On 20th I was talking to a room full of potential customers in Nanjing. Everyone was asking about Brexit and how it would impact on the stability of supply and the ability to honour long-term contracts.

There has been a lot of acceptable economic news recently - but its mostly based on retrospective data and the fulfillment of orders from more than six months ago.

Going forward its going to get tough. No doubt about it. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.

 

Whilst I don't doubt the worries of the third world, my experience with first-world non-EU investment people is very positive and they are looking forward to an independent UK.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

 

Clearly your friends should be directing the government and the High Court what to do.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/gdp

 

This shows how GDP has grown since 1960. Not so bad since 1975! So much for strangling the UK economy! I wonder which part of the economy they are referring to? Coal mining?

[Grouse]

3 minutes ago, jpinx said:

 

Whilst I don't doubt the worries of the third world, my experience with first-world non-EU investment people is very positive and they are looking forward to an independent UK.

 

Got any examples? Just out of interest.

[jpinx]

"Just out of interest"  ??  really?   I'd be fool to expose too much on a widely abused public forum, but your google will tell you the answers, if you ask it the right questions :)

[Srikcir]

6 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

It was actually 48.1%.

 

Surely there's a 'hilarious' joke in the mistake I've just pointed out, for posters of a certain ilk?

I just subtracted Yes percentage vote from 100% to get across the idea of a large minority No percentage vote without concern to being absolutely correct by having to research actual percent of no vote. Pointing out my "mistake" is itself an academic joke  and obviously missed my point. Apparently the UK Supreme Court didn't discount the importance of No voters having no further say in the Brexit matter beyond the referendum.

Poster of a certain ilk? I'm not a UK citizen so don't understand the reference.

[SheungWan]

4 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

I just subtracted Yes percentage vote from 100% to get across the idea of a large minority No percentage vote without concern to being absolutely correct by having to research actual percent of no vote. Pointing out my "mistake" is itself an academic joke  and obviously missed my point. Apparently the UK Supreme Court didn't discount the importance of No voters having no further say in the Brexit matter beyond the referendum.

Poster of a certain ilk? I'm not a UK citizen so don't understand the reference.

 

The Supreme Court has not made any decision. The High Court has. Secondly, the High Court's decision has nothing to do with the percentage allocation of the Brexit vote.

[jpinx]

15 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

I just subtracted Yes percentage vote from 100% to get across the idea of a large minority No percentage vote without concern to being absolutely correct by having to research actual percent of no vote. Pointing out my "mistake" is itself an academic joke  and obviously missed my point. Apparently the UK Supreme Court didn't discount the importance of No voters having no further say in the Brexit matter beyond the referendum.

Poster of a certain ilk? I'm not a UK citizen so don't understand the reference.

 

At least do the basic research and maths and get it right please --  before potentially starting more alarm and confusion

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2016-brexit-referendum/

 

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

 

Sterling has bounced in response to High Court decision.  Bottom in for now. Will probably stay up until December 7? when the government's appeal to the Supreme Court is held. If the government loses that then there is a decent chance that sterling can improve to my trigger 45 baht point.

 

You forget the US election result perhaps? If Trump wins (God help us) GBP will appear stronger against USD albeit it is the value of USD that will have declined.

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, HauptmannUK said:

Many non-EU countries are shocked that the UK has pulled out of the EU. You don't seem to realise how badly this decision has gone down internationally - how much reputational damage has been done to the UK.

I spent most of September trying to drum up business in China. On 20th I was talking to a room full of potential customers in Nanjing. Everyone was asking about Brexit and how it would impact on the stability of supply and the ability to honour long-term contracts.

There has been a lot of acceptable economic news recently - but its mostly based on retrospective data and the fulfillment of orders from more than six months ago.

Going forward its going to get tough. No doubt about it. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.

I have never been on a trade mission where all parties didn't want to do a deal. The devil's in the detail though. Usually the thing falls apart because both sides can't agree. I don't see the UK getting better deals with China and India than we have via the EU. We just don't have the muscle.

 

India resent the restrictions placed upon Indian students in the UK, restrictions put there by Home Secretary May. Doesn't look promising really, does it?

 

As for China, the day after the vote one of their dailies stated that the UK had a "loser mentality" ... I also read that a China trade delegate stated it would take 500 people and 10 years to negotiate a trade deal with China ... not a great start.

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/gdp

 

This shows how GDP has grown since 1960. Not so bad since 1975! So much for strangling the UK economy! I wonder which part of the economy they are referring to? Coal mining?

 

Indeed, the UK has prospered within the EU ... unfortunately our politicians have found them a convenient scapegoat over the years for their own failings ... and a populace bombarded with that claptrap over the years bought it!

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, jpinx said:

"Just out of interest"  ??  really?   I'd be fool to expose too much on a widely abused public forum, but your google will tell you the answers, if you ask it the right questions :)

 

I was not being rhetorical. All the feedback I've heard is that RoW is aghast. So if you've got some positive news let us know

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

 

Got any examples? Just out of interest.

 

Like everything else there will be opportunities for countries like Australia and New Zealand ... but on the whole we'll be net losers. Trade deals take years, and we are not in possession of a strong negotiation hand vis a vis China and India ... who will no doubt extract a heavy price ... in 2030 when the trade deals are eventually agreed! 

 

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

I just subtracted Yes percentage vote from 100% to get across the idea of a large minority No percentage vote without concern to being absolutely correct by having to research actual percent of no vote. Pointing out my "mistake" is itself an academic joke  and obviously missed my point. Apparently the UK Supreme Court didn't discount the importance of No voters having no further say in the Brexit matter beyond the referendum.

Poster of a certain ilk? I'm not a UK citizen so don't understand the reference.

 

Sorry, you got the wrong end of the stick. I don't care about the mathematical mistake per se, and was just using your post as a tool to highlight the hypocrisy and childishness of certain remain posters who like to target particular brexiter posters over such things. Sorry this wound you up. Not my intent.

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

 

The Supreme Court has not made any decision. The High Court has. Secondly, the High Court's decision has nothing to do with the percentage allocation of the Brexit vote.

 

Correct. RockingRobin has kindly been going to great lengths to clarify the court's reasoning in this case.

[Grouse]

4 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Sorry, you got the wrong end of the stick. I don't care about the mathematical mistake per se, and was just using your post as a tool to highlight the hypocrisy and childishness of certain remain posters who like to target particular brexiter posters over such things. Sorry this wound you up. Not my intent.

 

For goodness sake, I am the poster that Han is targeting. Problem is I am completely insensitive to sillyness ?

[rockingrobin]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

 

The Supreme Court has not made any decision. The High Court has. Secondly, the High Court's decision has nothing to do with the percentage allocation of the Brexit vote.

 

3 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Correct. RockingRobin has kindly been going to great lengths to clarify the court's reasoning in this case.

Personally I think the ECJ will rule notification is reversible, thus allowing RP as no laws will be repealed invoking Art 50.How that will play out politically I dont know

[Laughing Gravy]

10 hours ago, jpinx said:

Either way -- why did they set up a referendum and not accept the result?

Never a truer quote said. That's the problem with a simple decision. Stay in the EU or Leave. They remainers (well some) can't accept a democratic decision and behave like children who have been given a choice but can't accept the outcome.

[Laughing Gravy]

5 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

I watched a Sky News doc recently where a lady voted "because of the NHS" ... looks like she'll be disappointed then, doesn't it?

 

The EU made the UK become a 'service country'? Do you not think that we did that ourselves? A narrow majority voted to leave the EU in a referendum, but a very large minority did not ... so we should just ignore them and plough ahead with an extreme exit, without any reference to our own laws and parliament? That, in my view, is a recipe for disaster. No debate and no plan as to what form the exit will take? We're all expected to take a walk in the dark to a destination that will be determined by right-wing Tories and UKIP racists. It looks like there will be scrutiny and debate, and not before time.

 

 

 

 

No we did not make that ourselves. Look up how the UK and Europe was formed due to the Lisbon and Maastricht treaty. This is the bit many remainers don't understand and I don't think ever will. Many of us who voted out just want out from the corrupt EU. we do not give a <deleted>. The EU is as bad as the Nazis dictating what we can do or can't within a historical time. Sadly many reamainers haven't the nostalgic, patriotism or even sense, to realize that the EU is no difference from a tyranny and control of the European countries of the early 1900s.