May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Laughing Gravy]

5 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

Of course none of that will happen because one of those institutions is an EU Parliament, which needs to be in place before a Federal States of Europe can happen

That is the agenda that it seems to be certainly pushing and will be its downfall IMHO.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Laughing Gravy

[SgtRock]

1 minute ago, Laughing Gravy said:

That is the agenda that it seems to be certainly pushing and will be its downfall IMHO.

 

I do not believe so. This is something that has been, and will continue to be kicked further down the road as events dictate.

 

The immediate threat to the EU, as I have been saying for months, is the EUR / EZ. 

 

It will be the failure of the EUR / EZ that will bring about the demise of the EU as we currently know it.

 

This is not new, it has been discussed at length for a long time. The EU has had plenty of warnings and ample time to try and take action. Instead, as I posted above:

 

Quote

The situation is being closely watched by financiers and policymakers across Europe and beyond, who worry that a mass failure of Italian banks could trigger panic across the eurozone banking system.

 

Instead of being capable of taking strong, decisive action when faced with a crisis, they watch and worry.

 

Brilliant strategy.

[Laughing Gravy]

14 hours ago, nontabury said:

 

   I wonder how many of these had the opportunity to go to university, perhaps they were to busy elsewhere.

Yet we have some keyboard warriors on this thread implying they were Nazis.

I agree but it would seem that not all the under 24's voted remain.

 

The youngster was one of the 30% of those under 24 who voted to Leave - a group she says is ignored by the media.

"It makes me so mad how the BBC and the media have represented my generation as being completely against Brexit because we’re not! 

"Me and my friends, we talk about the fact that we’re ruled by Brussels, about the corruption in Europe."

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/736994/leave-vote-university-campus-activism-brexit

 

[rockingrobin]

More legal challenges  

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38126899

[nontabury]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I agree but it would seem that not all the under 24's voted remain.

 

The youngster was one of the 30% of those under 24 who voted to Leave - a group she says is ignored by the media.

"It makes me so mad how the BBC and the media have represented my generation as being completely against Brexit because we’re not! 

"Me and my friends, we talk about the fact that we’re ruled by Brussels, about the corruption in Europe."

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/736994/leave-vote-university-campus-activism-brexit

 

 

I must admit that I've been wrong on this point, having read many articles which tended to paint a picture of All young people, especially the higher educated,voting to remain in this so-called Union. This just goes to show the bias of the corporate media. Also good to see that not all university graduates are indoctorated sheep, and that many have the ability to think for themselves. Thus highlighting the fact there is still hope for the UK.

[Laughing Gravy]

11 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

More legal challenges  

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38126899

Yes there are those that just can't abide democracy and like children throwing their dolls out of the pram because they didn't get their own way. Same happening in the US with trumps victory. The remain campaign are resorting to bringing out dinosaurs like John Major and Tony Blair to try and 'champion' the cause. The hilarious thing is these two got the UK in the mess it is in with the EU.

 

The best part of the article.

"The public have spoken; we should respect the result and get on with it, not try to find new hurdles that undermine the democratic process."

Edited November 28, 2016 by Laughing Gravy
quote in the article

[Laughing Gravy]

3 minutes ago, nontabury said:

This just goes to show the bias of the corporate media. Also good to see that not all university graduates are indoctorated sheep, and that many have the ability to think for themselves. Thus highlighting the fact there is still hope for the UK.

Here, here.

[SgtRock]

9 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

I must admit that I've been wrong on this point, having read many articles which tended to paint a picture of All young people, especially the higher educated,voting to remain in this so-called Union. This just goes to show the bias of the corporate media. Also good to see that not all university graduates are indoctorated sheep, and that many have the ability to think for themselves. Thus highlighting the fact there is still hope for the UK.

 

You were not wrong. It was simply a case of the media, strongly pushing an agenda. Reality speaks rather differently.

 

Trump and Brexit. 2 peas in a pod. They deserve each other, and on and on the drivel goes. You know the story. Those highly intelligent remoaners never seem to shut up about it.#

 

Here you go.

 

Quote

In the end, according to exit polls, the election result seems to have been more about the clear backing of America’s white and wealthy voters for Donald Trump – including white graduates, and white female voters.

Far from being purely a revolt by poorer whites left behind by globalisation, who did indeed turn out in greater numbers for the Republican candidate than in 2012, Trump’s victory also relied on the support of the middle-class, the better-educated and the well-off.

 

Quote

Of the one in three Americans who earn less than $50,000 a year, a majority voted for Clinton. A majority of those who earn more backed Trump.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/09/white-voters-victory-donald-trump-exit-polls

[nontabury]

15 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

Yeah, for Queen and Country ... how many of them are alive today? Probably not that many. The crowd that did the damage came after ... the one's that never had a war that got in the way of their wealth building, property gains and pension benefits ... like the Lady from the Womens Institute in Little Britain, who projectile vomits at the sight or mention of a foreigner. Xenophobia among the elderly and shameless generation won the day.

 

 

 

  Not many alive today admittedly, yet I tend to believe that the vast majority of  those who gave their lives fighting the fascist,would be appalled how some in the present generation are so willing to sacrifice the freedoms that have now been taken away over the last 20yrs. I would also suspect that many of the survivors of WW2 did in fact vote in favour of the EEC in 1975 , this being a trading arrangement/Union,  not realizing how the political elite and big business would deceitfully railroad the UK into the present day monster called the EU.

[SheungWan]

16 hours ago, nontabury said:

 

   I wonder how many of these had the opportunity to go to university, perhaps they were to busy elsewhere.

Yet we have some keyboard warriors on this thread implying they were Nazis.

 

Probably preferable to putting up images of any pro-Brexit BNP members who attend SS reunion gatherings in Europe.

[rockingrobin]

27 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

More legal challenges  

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38126899

 

19 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Yes there are those that just can't abide democracy and like children throwing their dolls out of the pram because they didn't get their own way. Same happening in the US with trumps victory. The remain campaign are resorting to bringing out dinosaurs like John Major and Tony Blair to try and 'champion' the cause. The hilarious thing is these two got the UK in the mess it is in with the EU.

 

The best part of the article.

"The public have spoken; we should respect the result and get on with it, not try to find new hurdles that undermine the democratic process."

The legal challenge will be about clarification on what happens on Brexit and nothing to do with circumventing the referendum.

The referendum was about leaving the EU , not the single market .The PM recognises this when she states the UK wants maximum access to and operate within the SM

[SheungWan]

Just now, rockingrobin said:

 

The legal challenge will be about clarification on what happens on Brexit and nothing to do with circumventing the referendum.

The referendum was about leaving the EU , not the single market .The PM recognises this when she states the UK wants maximum access to and operate within the SM

 

The objection is because the forum Brexiteers are to a man hard Brexiteers and do not recognise any soft Brexit alternative. All to their left is lumped under the anti-referendum result label.

[Laughing Gravy]

8 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

 

The legal challenge will be about clarification on what happens on Brexit and nothing to do with circumventing the referendum.

The referendum was about leaving the EU , not the single market .The PM recognises this when she states the UK wants maximum access to and operate within the SM

Many would disagree with you as Brexit meant Brexit and as I quoted in the article just hurdles that undermine the democratic process. What the EU are offering for the single market 'smacks' the whole point of leaving the EU. Backdoor antics to get the UK to stay in its corrupt stranglehold.

 

But I know there are those that will be supporting and praising what a wonderful organization the EU is and what a travesty it will be for leaving

Edited November 28, 2016 by Laughing Gravy
update

[rockingrobin]

2 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Many would disagree with you as Brexit meant Brexit and as I quoted in the article just hurdles that undermine the democratic process. What the EU are offering for the single market 'smacks' the whole point of leaving the EU. Backdoor antics to get the UK to stay in its corrupt stranglehold.

' Brexit means Brexit ' = nothing , it is a vacuous statement . 

[SgtRock]

5 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

The objection is because the forum Brexiteers are to a man hard Brexiteers and do not recognise any soft Brexit alternative. All to their left is lumped under the anti-referendum result label.

 

As has already been pointed out

 

Quote

EU council president: it's hard Brexit or no Brexit at all

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/13/its-hard-brexit-or-no-brexit-at-all-says-eu-council-president

 

The forum brexiteers as you like to call them will have no input whatsoever to any form of Brexit. So if you have an issue with a so called hard Brexit, take it up Mr Tusk, he is after all the President of the EU council, he will be the man to speak to.

 

Regurgitating the same white noise on here will get you nowhere.

[SgtRock]

15 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

Probably preferable to putting up images of any pro-Brexit BNP members who attend SS reunion gatherings in Europe.

 

Please post some as I have difficulty in locating any.

 

Or is that just more remoaner white noise ?

[Laughing Gravy]

8 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

' Brexit means Brexit ' = nothing , it is a vacuous statement . 

Well there is no point discussing it with you.

[AlexRich]

42 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

  Not many alive today admittedly, yet I tend to believe that the vast majority of  those who gave their lives fighting the fascist,would be appalled how some in the present generation are so willing to sacrifice the freedoms that have now been taken away over the last 20yrs. I would also suspect that many of the survivors of WW2 did in fact vote in favour of the EEC in 1975 , this being a trading arrangement/Union,  not realizing how the political elite and big business would deceitfully railroad the UK into the present day monster called the EU.

 

 

I'm afraid you lost me there? They fought the facist ... what are UKIP? You don't have to dig to deep to find similar sentiments ... Farage's migrant poster spoke volumes about them. Facists are on the rise ... history is repeating itself.  

 

[AlexRich]

9 hours ago, HauptmannUK said:

The image with the graves is very cynical. Few of those who fought in WWII are still alive today. My father was born in 1920 and fought, as did his brother. They saw first-hand the devastation of war in Europe and like many old soldiers (and Churchill) were both very pro-European and pro-EU.  He died 10 years ago but I am sure he would have voted Remain.

Unfortunately its the 'I'm alright Jack now pull up the ladder' generation born post-war with their property portfolios and triple-locked pensions that have caused the problems. 

 

Agree ... many well-off elderly voted to restrict immigration ... they don't want foreigners spoiling their twilight years. If Brexit turns out to be bad economically it simply does not affect them. I reserve my scorn for the one's that "did it for their grandchildren" ... nope, they did it for their own selfish reasons safe in the knowledge that they'd get through it unscathed.

[AlexRich]

5 hours ago, SgtRock said:

Who remembers that old song '' There may be trouble ahead '' ?

 

That bastion of truth and impartiality cited by the remoaners are now reporting:

 

 

 

 

https://www.ft.com/content/e588ea6a-b49f-11e6-961e-a1acd97f622d

 

I am fairly certain that I posted weeks ago that a '' No '' vote was going to cause chaos for the EUR and the EZ.

 

Draw your own conclusions as to whether it is true or an attempt at fearmongering.

 

And you think that if there is a no vote and market pressure on Italian banks they will just be allowed to fail ... is that the inevitable consequence? No policy response? Mmm ... let's see shall we.

[AlexRich]

32 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

Please post some as I have difficulty in locating any.

 

Or is that just more remoaner white noise ?

 

If he can find a shop worker from Ferrara that seen the photograph would that be sufficient evidence?

 

UKIP is full of people with third reich mentality. 

 

 

 

 

[AlexRich]

4 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Well I have 1 undergraduate and 2 post graduate degrees if we are calling it and they are proper ones also, spending 8 years at university. My point is it doesn't make me any better than the person who has none, to make a decision on what they believe or make them any better at that decision. I am pro leave and still have lost more to contribute to the country. With the recent proposals by the government we will (many) be working to we are 70. My argument is, that having a university degree doesn't make someone more intelligent to vote and have an opinion.

 

You'd have lost more ... but I suspect not enough to feel financial pain. You'll be alright Jack?

 

 

[sandyf]

Another touch of reality. Many have little interest in what is marked on the products they buy. many products cannot be legally sold within the EU unless they carry the CE symbol, control of the CE symbol lies with the EU.

 

Crucially, it warns: “Whether the UK is inside or outside of the single market, EU regulations cannot be avoided if Britain wishes to trade with the European Union.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-warned-that-cherry-picking-a-post-brexit-trade-deal-for-the-city-will-harm-the-rest-of-a7442411.html

[SgtRock]

Quote

Investor Who Backed Brexit Sees Euro Breaking Up Within 5 Years

 

Quote

Jim Mellon stood out among investors in 2016 as a rare, public backer of Britain’s exit from the European Union. Now, the chairman of the Burnbrae Group is forecasting another breakup.

 

Quote

“Brexit is going to be a sideshow to the problems of Europe that are becoming more and more evident,” Mellon said. “The euro as it stands at the moment is just a very inappropriate mechanism -- I give the euro between one and five years of life.”

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-28/investor-who-backed-brexit-sees-euro-breaking-up-within-5-years

 

For how long and how many times have I said this.

 

But what would I know. Apparently I am just an uneducated brexiteer.

[SgtRock]

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

 

And you think that if there is a no vote and market pressure on Italian banks they will just be allowed to fail ... is that the inevitable consequence? No policy response? Mmm ... let's see shall we.

 

Perhaps you could not read the article as it was in the FT

 

Quote

Resolution, a new regulatory mechanism, restructures and, if necessary, winds up a bank by imposing losses on both equity and debt investors, particularly controversial in Italy, where millions of individual investors have bought bank bonds.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/e588ea6a-b49f-11e6-961e-a1acd97f622d

 

You might be correct, it would not be the 1st time that the EU has ditched its own rules and regulations when it suits them.

 

http://ec.europa.eu/finance/general-policy/banking-union/single-resolution-mechanism/index_en.htm

 

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

From your posts Grouse it would seem you believe in the EU for its trade. Similar to what the Common Market started out as and what we were lead to believe. I know you have said the EU isn't perfect but the EU is resistant to change, is not what it what its original concept was about. far too many countries are in it  with a few putting lots of revenue in and getting less a return. That along with the crippling bureaucracy and the dilution of cultures. It is these facts and others that I believe the UK is best out. If the original model of the Common Market, between the 8 countries was in place, then I would say yes to that.

 

Actually, I am ON BALANCE pro EU for multiple reasons not only trade ( and even that is because of the way being in the EU attracts so much inward investment and provides so many jobs)

 

Then there is the peace dividend. I am very conscious of the fact that the original motivation was bonding Germany, France, Italy and the Low Countries together after the wars. It worked.

 

EU massively enhances our soft power in a dangerous world.

 

EU blunts the excesses of Westminster and provides better work and environmental regulation.

 

Then, and this rather more tenuous, I just feel that in general, European social democracy and civil society is a civilising influence on some of the UK's more brutish attitudes.

 

There are also many issues in the other pan on the scales including waste, efficiency, auditing, Euro etc

 

?

 

[SgtRock]

23 hours ago, AlexRich said:

I suggest that they care a great deal about their economy and future welfare. 

 

Indeed, it would appear that you are at least half correct.

 

It seems that some Italians are already way ahead of the curve.

 

Quote

The 154-year-old Poste Italiane is winning deposits as fast as some traditional lenders are losing them, attracting savers disillusioned with a banking system that is straining under bad debts and appears to be in permanent crisis.

Alarmed by daily media reports about faltering bank rescue plans, savers have deposited about 3 billion euros ($3.4 billion) in the post office in the last six months alone.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-italy-poste-italiane-banks-idUSKCN12I134

 

I hope the Poste Italiane does foreign currency accounts.

[dick dasterdly]

On 11/27/2016 at 2:55 AM, Laughing Gravy said:

Whilst the stats are showing that more people had a university degree voted remain that doesn't mean that people without one are less informed and quite frankly more knowledgeable. The older generation voted to leave but the amount of people from them had less university degrees opportunities than now, by far. I have mentioned it before that all my friends besides one voted leave and we have a draw full of university degrees between us. Does this make us all more knowledgeable or even that we have a greater right to know what the consequences of Brexit was or if we stayed in the EU? The answer is no. People voted on their believe for what ever reason. This is the rhetoric often pushed by remoaners that brexit voters are somewhat inferior and less educated. They may have less degrees on paper but that means nothing. The truth could be said that from more mature people saying that the younger generation with their degrees, do not have the wealth of experience. I don't like the linking of university degrees to understanding and knowledge on politics and daily life. In fact I have met so many people with degrees and PhDs and they are the most dimwitted, uninteresting and oblivious to politics and life generally around them.

Sorry to derail this thread - but how on earth would anyone know as to the education level of those who voted brexit or against??

 

Last time I checked votes were anonymous - although the last time I voted (a long time ago) somebody asked me (after the vote) how I had voted and I told her it had nothing to do with her how I voted.

 

Presumably the 'educated voted to remain' idea is based on regions?  Which is a bit odd as there is a HUGE number of uneducated and stupid people in London.

[AlexRich]

Nigel Farage with one of his mates!

 

"Andrew Lovie, 51, a former secretary of the Aberdeen branch of Ukip, posted a series of vile racist and homophobic rants on a white supremacist website".

 

Let's be fair to Nigel ... if you make those sort of statements in public you get kicked out of UKIP. So it's best just to believe in them but just don't publicise the fact. A Brexit party full of xenophobic racists.  

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ukip-nazi-nigel-farage-proudly-4761109

[AlexRich]

5 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Sorry to derail this thread - but how on earth would anyone know as to the education level of those who voted brexit or against??

 

Last time I checked votes were anonymous - although the last time I voted (a long time ago) somebody asked me (after the vote) how I had voted and I told her it had nothing to do with her how I voted.

 

Presumably the 'educated voted to remain' idea is based on regions?  Which is a bit odd as there is a HUGE number of uneducated and stupid people in London.

 

Correct about London, by my reckoning about 40% come under the "uneducated and stupid" banner.