May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, cumgranosalum said:

Good news!

Nissan to expand in UK

 

so this is "good news"??? the fact is that none of this negotiating, to-ing and fro-ing would be needed is UK was safely within the Eu.

Furthermore I would like to see how Theresa May can offer a deal on this before she's negotiated a Brexit.

 

the fact is that pre Brexit everyone warned that the Japanese and in a ALL the UK motor industry would be concerned about exporting to the EU after Brexit......it was clearly true and now the UK government (or rather the Taxpayer) is going to have to subsidise and industry that w2as actually doing very well - it doesn'rt bode well for the rest of UK manufacturing, does it?

 

Yes, just confirmed on Radio 4 that May indemnified Nissan against any additional costs associated with Brexit such as tariffs.

 

well, that's OK then! Can I have a blank cheque too?

[Khun Han]

9 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You should read all the posts. You would see from post 207 that I never subscribed to the compensation theory, she is going for the single market but not prepared to admit it publically.

You would also have seen from post 240 that the reference to compensation came from Nissan in Paris a month ago, hardly an Independent exclusive.

 

Now that you have commented on post 240 it is even more bizarre that you think the compensation issue was created by the Independent.

 

Like I said, the Indy is trying to create a story (hint: the headline gives it away).

 

At this stage, we can only speculate on what is bringing all these corps onside. I certainly wouldn't state speculation as fact.

[Johnyo]

 

As I said, some posters are desperate to put negative (and purely speculative) spin on all the good news.

 

"A No 10 spokesman later insisted there was no "compensation package" or "special deal" done with Nissan to secure the investment.

 

"What was made clear to Nissan and to others in the automotive industry is that what we want is a competitive environment for the whole of the industry," he said.

 

Nissan also clarified it had not been given special treatment."

Number 10 also said that there would be no third runway... no if no buts. You are also choosing to believe whatever suits your argument. Since when are politicians to be trusted. Do you remember.. there will be no raise in VAT? Iraq has weapons of mass destruction?? Etc etc etc

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[sandyf]

7 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Like I said, the Indy is trying to create a story (hint: the headline gives it away).

 

At this stage, we can only speculate on what is bringing all these corps onside. I certainly wouldn't state speculation as fact.

Since when does me subscribing to the theory that she is going for the single market become stating facts.

If you do not understand do not comment.

[happy Joe]

21 hours ago, Grouse said:

Nissan IS going to invest again in U.K. and build two new models. Great!

 

BUT, what deal did May offer Ghosn? Why don't we know? Royal Perogative again?

 

The Franco-Brazilian Carlos Ghosn comes again to justify his salary slightly indecent. Despite the challenges ahead it is betting that the right decisions will be taken at the appropriate time to preserve the economic apparatus.

 

He brings some comfort to British and make the right decision before others to win the hearts of consumers. At least, he will win in the domestic market.

 

Finally, it gives the lie to archaic, dreaming of England folded on itself.

 

"Today's economy is global, Coco, tries to enter it in your brain" 

 

For Britons, I hope it will be followed by many others.

[Khun Han]

7 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Since when does me subscribing to the theory that she is going for the single market become stating facts.

If you do not understand do not comment.

 

Er, because you stated it as though it's established fact?

 

33 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You should read all the posts. You would see from post 207 that I never subscribed to the compensation theory, she is going for the single market but not prepared to admit it publically.

You would also have seen from post 240 that the reference to compensation came from Nissan in Paris a month ago, hardly an Independent exclusive.

 

Now that you have commented on post 240 it is even more bizarre that you think the compensation issue was created by the Independent.

 

"she is going for the single market but not prepared to admit it publically."

 

[Khun Han]

25 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

Yes, just confirmed on Radio 4 that May indemnified Nissan against any additional costs associated with Brexit such as tariffs.

 

well, that's OK then! Can I have a blank cheque too?

 

Sorry???

 

Who said what to who?

[cumgranosalum]

UK is going to have to grovel like this to just about every industry - foreign or native -  over the next two years and WHY? Because they now are desperately trying to restore the situation to as near as possible  to what it was before the referendum.....just scrap Brexit and save yourselves the bother.....

[Grouse]

50 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

Yes, just confirmed on Radio 4 that May indemnified Nissan against any additional costs associated with Brexit such as tariffs.

 

well, that's OK then! Can I have a blank cheque too?

 

Obviously May can not pay the tariffs and protect against non-tariff barriers for all exporters. Clearly we are going to stay within the single market/customs union. ?

[thaihome]

12 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

Obviously May can not pay the tariffs and protect against non-tariff barriers for all exporters. Clearly we are going to stay within the single market/customs union. ?

 

What about free movement ?  Is there news that the EU is going to not make that a condition of the single market?  

 

This thread seems to me like  people carrying on a conversation with a mirror.

TH 

 

Edited October 28, 2016 by thaihome

[Khun Han]

24 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

Obviously May can not pay the tariffs and protect against non-tariff barriers for all exporters. Clearly we are going to stay within the single market/customs union. ?

 

Huh? I thought you'd heard it confirmed on Radio 4 that it was a subsidy (a "blank cheque") to Nissan?

[Grouse]

24 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Huh? I thought you'd heard it confirmed on Radio 4 that it was a subsidy (a "blank cheque") to Nissan?

 

A letter of indemnification was was sent to Nissan from DoT ( I did not get the man's name). Parliament has requested the details. Nissan is to be indemnified against additional costs arising from Brexit such as tariffs. 

 

I conclude May now will go for soft Brexit.....

[Grouse]

torFX

 

Sterling

The Pound rallied initially yesterday when third quarter GDP data showed that the British economy expanded 0.5% in the three months following the EU referendum. The Office for National Statistics, who compiled the report, noted there was ‘little evidence of a pronounced effect’ from the vote. The robust growth print beat estimates of 0.3% but marked a slowdown on the second quarter’s 0.7% expansion.

Later on in the day, however, Sterling gave back most of its knee-jerk gains as investors digested the details of the report. The UK service sector saw output increase by 0.8%, while production, construction and agriculture all witnessed contractions. Around the time of the referendum there had been forecasts of an immediate recession but that looks unlikely – it would take an exceedingly large downward revision. But traders are well aware that the real impact of ‘Brexit’ will not be felt right away, and is likely to kick-in more forcefully once Article 50 has been triggered, and this explains why the Pound found itself under pressure even as GDP impressed.

 

Cable 1.214 

[thaihome]

14 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

A letter of indemnification was was sent to Nissan from DoT ( I did not get the man's name). Parliament has requested the details. Nissan is to be indemnified against additional costs arising from Brexit such as tariffs. 

 

I conclude May now will go for soft Brexit.....

 

Just a thought ,  but might a government  indemnification against tariffs be a violation of WTO anti-dumping rules?  Would seem  to be giving an unfair advantage.

TH 

[SheungWan]

7 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

A letter of indemnification was was sent to Nissan from DoT ( I did not get the man's name). Parliament has requested the details. Nissan is to be indemnified against additional costs arising from Brexit such as tariffs. 

 

I conclude May now will go for soft Brexit.....

 

You may conclude that she will (whatever soft Brexit means) but the market is not convinced that she is able to deliver on that front with the split of hard/soft Brexit sitting alongside and behind her. Some gestures needed to be made towards Nissan in order to keep sterling's slide from getting much worse but there hasn't been exactly much of any bounce either.

[cumgranosalum]

23 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

A letter of indemnification was was sent to Nissan from DoT ( I did not get the man's name). Parliament has requested the details. Nissan is to be indemnified against additional costs arising from Brexit such as tariffs. 

 

I conclude May now will go for soft Brexit.....

...and presumably a similar letter will be sent to everyone else in the motor industry?

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, happy Joe said:

 

The Franco-Brazilian Carlos Ghosn comes again to justify his salary slightly indecent. Despite the challenges ahead it is betting that the right decisions will be taken at the appropriate time to preserve the economic apparatus.

 

He brings some comfort to British and make the right decision before others to win the hearts of consumers. At least, he will win in the domestic market.

 

Finally, it gives the lie to archaic, dreaming of England folded on itself.

 

"Today's economy is global, Coco, tries to enter it in your brain" 

 

For Britons, I hope it will be followed by many others.

 

Nissan had to make a decision now due to the specifics of the long lead in time for car manufacture and their own time table for new product production. Nissan is certainly not making their investment decision because of a Brexit net positive. On the contrary, Nissan is making its decision against the background of Brexit as a net negative and specifically sought assurances from the UK government against the perceived negative impact of Brexit.

[Khun Han]

23 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

Nissan had to make a decision now due to the specifics of the long lead in time for car manufacture and their own time table for new product production. Nissan is certainly not making their investment decision because of a Brexit net positive. On the contrary, Nissan is making its decision against the background of Brexit as a net negative and specifically sought assurances from the UK government against the perceived negative impact of Brexit.

 

Nissan has made it's decision because it's in Nissan's best interests, and better than all the alternatives. Speculate and spin it however you want, but that's the bald truth of the matter.

[Grouse]

It's great news that Nissan is staying

 

It's also great news that it looks like we're going to stay with the single market by whatever means

 

There are of course many ways that we could protect Nissan including cuts in corporation tax, investment right downs as well as actually getting out the cheque book. However, best solution is to stay in on some basis like Switzerland plus?

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, cumgranosalum said:

...and presumably a similar letter will be sent to everyone else in the motor industry?

 

The really interesting story that begins to emerge from the Nissan hoo-ha concerns repercussions from the supposed economic benefits from Brexit. Soft Brexit will require the UK to continue paying into the EU fund. So OK, the hard Brexiteers are opposed to this. But now, with the Nissan flag flying there is a price to pay emerging from a possible hard Brexit outcome with the government having to face paying off companies (why stop at multinational foreign investors who may relocate elsewhere?) with the funds supposedly gained from an exit. Hard Brexit is not a free lunch.

Edited October 28, 2016 by SheungWan

[MJP]

Isn't the taxpayer subsidising UK exports to the single market by paying the £350m a week (or whatever it is) membership fee? Add to that the UK runs a pretty wild deficit in goods and services with the EU.

Edited October 28, 2016 by MJP

[cumgranosalum]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Please do not flatter yourself. The only thing in this post that relates to you is the mentioning of spelling and the evidence is there, as you know.

Is this a sample of the kind of paranoia that made Brexiteers think the EU was out to get them?

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, MJP said:

Isn't the taxpayer subsidising UK exports to the single market by paying the £350m a week (or whatever it is) membership fee? Add to that the UK runs a pretty wild deficit in goods and services with the EU.

 

Yes, about half that but that's our subs for lots of things. I think it's been good for us. Less than 0.4% of GDP for peace? Cheap at twice the price!

[MJP]

13 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

Yes, about half that but that's our subs for lots of things. I think it's been good for us. Less than 0.4% of GDP for peace? Cheap at twice the price!

 

Considering all the other wastes of money, yes, that's not terrible.

 

Not bovvered about the money (they only print it), am bovvered about being dragged into a total federal EU with all our local and central govt gone.

[cumgranosalum]

3 minutes ago, MJP said:

 

Considering all the other wastes of money, yes, that's not terrible.

 

Not bovvered about the money (they only print it), am bovvered about being dragged into a total federal EU with all our local and central govt gone.

i think this is the feeblest of reasons I've heard for Brexit - and one that keeps coming up - the concept of nationalism is such a dated concept linked so closely to racism and all that comes with it. it's a pity that these folk can't see what thr world is really like these days - lets just hope this is the last convulsion of a dying dogma

[cumgranosalum]

"In the hour-long session at Goldman, May said: “I think the economic arguments are clear. I think being part of a 500 million [population] trading bloc is significant for us. I think, as I was saying to you a little earlier, that one of the issues is that a lot of people will invest here in the UK because it is the UK in Europe." - "tough" Theresa May.....

 

Time to stop Brexit and rejoin the planet.

[MJP]

1 hour ago, cumgranosalum said:

i think this is the feeblest of reasons I've heard for Brexit - and one that keeps coming up - the concept of nationalism is such a dated concept linked so closely to racism and all that comes with it. it's a pity that these folk can't see what thr world is really like these days - lets just hope this is the last convulsion of a dying dogma

 

This is the feeblest of retorts. The racism card. Played again and again. How dare you! You don't know me. How dare you call me a racist.

 

Giving absolute power to "appointed" not elected officials is crazy enough, let alone those appointed officials appointing other officials and then by an unaccountable entity. 

 

No, I'll stick with what we have. Elected representatives in local and county councils, reporting to central government in Westminster. Not appointed bureaucrats in EU regional assemblies reporting to other appointed bureaucrats in Brussels. 

[thaihome]

More talkin' to the mirror. The EU is not going to give any single market trade deal to the UK without freedom of movement . Doesn't matter how much you pay. 

 

There is no soft or hard exit. There is either freedom of movement or not. You people don't appear to be listening to what the EU has been saying for the past year and continues to say today.

TH 

 

The European Union is to show its determination to make no concessions to the UK on Brexit terms by telling Switzerland it will lose access to the single market if it goes ahead with plans to impose controls on the free movement of EU citizens.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/03/eu-swiss-single-market-access-no-free-movement-citizens

 

The Swiss parliament has largely caved in to EU intransigence on free movement in a decision that could deal a blow to British government hopes of being able to both control immigration and retain enhanced single market access after Brexit.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/22/switzerland-votes-for-compromise-to-preserve-relations-with-eu

[HauptmannUK]

Well, as per my previous comments (post 200) it seems that 'the cat is out of the bag' and its confirmed that Nissan have indeed been provided with financial guarantees from government against losses due to Brexit.  I understand that Jaguar are now asking for the same treatment.  To be closely followed by the rest of UK industry I should think!

I actually think May had no choice.  Nissan had her over a barrel.  If they had come out with an announcement this week that they were moving future production to France then the impact on confidence in UK investment, NE England, and GBP would have been profound.  I work for a multinational and I expect we will also be asking for some form of financial protection.  Who is going to foot the bill for all of this?  I guess it will come from the taxpayer - I can't see corporation tax being hiked to pay for it.  The obvious way out of this for May now is to go for 'soft-Brexit' - staying in the single market seems to be the only option. Hard Brexit is looking very expensive!

Edited October 28, 2016 by HauptmannUK

[cumgranosalum]

8 hours ago, MJP said:

 

This is the feeblest of retorts. The racism card. Played again and again. How dare you! You don't know me. How dare you call me a racist.

 

Giving absolute power to "appointed" not elected officials is crazy enough, let alone those appointed officials appointing other officials and then by an unaccountable entity. 

 

No, I'll stick with what we have. Elected representatives in local and county councils, reporting to central government in Westminster. Not appointed bureaucrats in EU regional assemblies reporting to other appointed bureaucrats in Brussels. 

I think you should get informed on UK government first.....and then try to relate issues of sovereignty to trade deals the UK will have to make and the international treaties we have signed and will in the future - your assessment is on cloud nine.