Thai man who carried out brutal sex attack on American tourist has sentence slashed

[amykat]

Wow, when I answered the capital murder question, I had not yet gone through the rest of the posts here. Thank you very much to the posters who attempted to defend me.  That is rare here and I appreciate it!!! 

[samsensam]

On 29/10/2016 at 8:38 AM, Thechook said:

Disgusting.  The value they put on farangs is appalling.  You get more for kicking a soi dog.

 

not sure about kicking a dog but you can certainly get a more severe sentence for a facebook post.

[DM07]

I really don't get some posters here and why they try to defend the rapist.

 

He was not responsible for her injuries?

Yeah...if by "responsible" you mean, he didn't break her spine personally with an accurate karate- kick!

He tried to rape her!

Everything else, following this action is absolutely his "responsibility"!

He also lead her into that part of the "landscape", with the cliff, so...duh!

 

He didn't really rape her?

Yeah...if you define "rape" solely as "penetration", that may be right!

But even if the law has very clear definitions on "rape": for Christs sake, he masturbated over and on her, while she was lying helplessly and in pain on the ground!

I personally, would not need penetration, to feel raped!

 

He went to get help?

After he tried to rape her, made her fall off a cliff and injure herself really REALLY bad, masturbated on her and chocked her a few times!

What a hero!

 

 

[amykat]

9 hours ago, Johnniey said:

I certainly am not  saying this. I don't know exactly what he did.  My point,  which you have strangely distorted was that  sexual assault is not as serious as  killing someone.

 

I'm sick of you putting words in my mouth.

 

 

 

It seems there are some people, maybe you included, who might have jumped into this story at the end, and maybe this thread, at the end.  So they haven't been there for the many discussions of what the rapist did, what the victim went through. They haven't read the various news reports. They haven't battled through the many TV threads where some of us have invested a lot of time trying to educate people and promote a more modern viewpoint towards women and sexual assault ...which you might share, we don't know.

 

So, when you arrive, at this point, and pose certain kinds of questions (not only you ...I didn't go back and check what you wrote ...just using this post as an example),  like "didn't he just grope her and didn't she just run off the cliff in a panic?"  or "why didn't she know better" it is like starting at the very beginning when we knew very little of what had happened.

 

Then posters don't know what camp to put you in.  Since the information is there, it is better to do a bit of reading about it.  You wouldn't go to the Koh Tao case and just jump to the end and expect everyone to explain it to you ...would you?  Just a suggestion ...I didn't see what happened here last night.  But other people are doing it too so not just you.

 

 

 

[AleG]

9 hours ago, sanemax said:

 

    I would just like to see him charged for the crimes that he committed .

Some posters seem to making things up , things that never happened and then saying that his sentence was lenient based on things that didnt happen  

... while saying that not doing so is an injustice.

This clearly shows why justice has to be a non-emotional business, if one is ready and willing to stretch the truth, embellish, diminish or otherwise fiddle with it based on one's sense of outrage then talking about justice begins to lose meaning.

[sanemax]

31 minutes ago, DM07 said:

I really don't get some posters here and why they try to defend the rapist.

He tried to rape her!

He didn't really rape her?

Yeah...if you define "rape" solely as "penetration", that may be right!

But even if the law has very clear definitions on "rape": for Christs sake, he masturbated over and on her, while she was lying helplessly and in pain on the ground!

I personally, would not need penetration, to feel raped!

 

 

 

 

 

   No one is trying to defend him at all

You cal him a rapist and then say that he only tried to rape her ?

Yes, rape can be defined in various ways, but we are talking about actual rape in the sexual intercourse way and that didnt happen .

   Yes, his actions caused her to fall off the cliff, but he didnt deliberately intentionally throw her off the cliff .

    If he had picked her up and thrown her off the cliff and then have sex with her as she lay helpless, he would have been charged with attempted murder and rape and he would probably have gotton a life sentence .

   But that isnt what he did .

   

 

[DM07]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

 

   No one is trying to defend him at all

You cal him a rapist and then say that he only tried to rape her ?

Yes, rape can be defined in various ways, but we are talking about actual rape in the sexual intercourse way and that didnt happen .

   Yes, his actions caused her to fall off the cliff, but he didnt deliberately intentionally throw her off the cliff .

    If he had picked her up and thrown her off the cliff and then have sex with her as she lay helpless, he would have been charged with attempted murder and rape and he would probably have gotton a life sentence .

   But that isnt what he did .

   

 

Dude...technicalities!

Yeah...if someone TRIES to kill me, I would call him a killer, if someone tries to eat me, I would call him a cannibal...if someone TRIES to rape me...that makes him a rapist!

 

And I am really not discussing this BS argument "he didn't throw her of that cliff"!

Are you mental?

He is TOTALLY 100% responsible for what happened to her!

Period!

Everything that happened, happened BECAUSE of his rape- attempt in the first place!

You can NOT take everything apart and look at all steps, isolated!

That is not how the world works: action, re-action, consequence...

 

 

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, DM07 said:

Dude...technicalities!

Yeah...if someone TRIES to kill me, I would call him a killer, if someone tries to eat me, I would call him a cannibal...if someone TRIES to rape me...that makes him a rapist!

 

And I am really not discussing this BS argument "he didn't throw her of that cliff"!

Are you mental?

He is TOTALLY 100% responsible for what happened to her!

Period!

Everything that happened, happened BECAUSE of his rape- attempt in the first place!

You can NOT take everything apart and look at all steps, isolated!

That is not how the world works: action, re-action, consequence...

 

 

 

    You can call people what you like, but that doesnt make them what you call them .

If someone did try to kill you, they wouldnt actually be labelled a killer until they had killed you .

There are two different laws, "Murder" and "Attempted murder"

You cannot seem to understand what I wrote 

I did say that he was responsible for what happened, then you say that Im mental and then you also say that he was responsible for what happened !!!!!!!!!!

   My point was that did nt deliberately throw her off the cliff .

Deliberately doing something on purpose is quite different to things happening that you are responsibly for .

   If you drive a car fast and it crashes, you would be responsible for the crash, but thats entirely different if you deliberately crashed a car on purpose 

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, DM07 said:

Dude...technicalities!

Yeah...if someone TRIES to kill me, I would call him a killer, if someone tries to eat me, I would call him a cannibal...if someone TRIES to rape me...that makes him a rapist!

 

And I am really not discussing this BS argument "he didn't throw her of that cliff"!

Are you mental?

He is TOTALLY 100% responsible for what happened to her!

Period!

Everything that happened, happened BECAUSE of his rape- attempt in the first place!

You can NOT take everything apart and look at all steps, isolated!

That is not how the world works: action, re-action, consequence...

 

 

 

    You can call people what you like, but that doesnt make them what you call them .

If someone did try to kill you, they wouldnt actually be labelled a killer until they had killed you .

There are two different laws, "Murder" and "Attempted murder"

You cannot seem to understand what I wrote 

I did say that he was responsible for what happened, then you say that Im mental and then you also say that he was responsible for what happened !!!!!!!!!!

   My point was that did nt deliberately throw her off the cliff .

Deliberately doing something on purpose is quite different to things happening that you are responsibly for .

   If you drive a car fast and it crashes, you would be responsible for the crash, but thats entirely different if you deliberately crashed a car on purpose 

[amykat]

Rape has a specific legal definition, that varies, depending on which legal jurisdiction you are speaking about.

 

And is has a definition according to common law.

 

And is has a definition in common speech.

[DM07]

...and to common sense!


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Artisi]

8 minutes ago, DM07 said:

...and to common sense!


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

And seems not much being shown in this thread.

[DM07]

9 minutes ago, Artisi said:

And seems not much being shown in this thread.

Especially not from those people, who try to defend the extremely "soft touch" handling of the rapist!

(I know: technically....blah blah...) 

[farcanell]

On 11/2/2016 at 0:42 AM, sanemax said:

 

    I would just like to see him charged for the crimes that he committed .

Some posters seem to making things up , things that never happened and then saying that his sentence was lenient based on things that didnt happen  

 

Fair enough max... fair enough

 

no one should be convicted or incarcerated for things they have not done... regardless of what nationality or locale.

 

to that effect.... re read the OP.... you will see two links... the first is useless, but if curious, check it... and please remember, that the OP is a Thai cover your donkey post, telling us that everything is rosy over here

 

the second is linked to a New York Times article, which gives more information.

 

but don't stop there, as that's almost a feel good story about Hannah's recovery.

 

google search "Hannah gavois", and you will see multiple listings there, about her ordeal, written by more reliable sources than Thai news outlets

 

these articles relate the story in Hannah's words, after she left Thailand, and they describe a horrific night of sexual abuse, suffered by an incapacitated woman, at the hands of a trusted guide ( there's her mistake... trusting a guide recommended by a tour company... you know the ones, they are all over Thailand selling tours to tourists)  in fear for her life, having snakes and other jungle creatures crawling around and over her, listening to the guide seeking her out, finding her, taking his pants off and masterbating over her, attempting to choke her

 

oh hell... it goes on and on and has been recounted above many times

 

thats the story.

 

as to punishment, in my post 262, I quoted standard ( max) recommended penalties by "the law pages.com", for some of the most obvious crimes committed against ms gavois on that night.... as a minimum, with all sentences served concurrently ( which is a joke in itself), but without mitigating circumstances.... according to that site, he should get life.

 

in post 281, in response to you, I described murder, as you wanted a definition, as it has been suggested that some people don't know what murder is... thankfully Hannah wasn't murdered, just terrorized... that offense and punishment, I did not look uo

 

in post 283, I proved that some parts of the world still see aggravated sexual assault as a capital offense.

 

i also countered the post, saying that one punch killers get off lightly with four years or less, by providing proof that other jurisdictions provide as much as 15 years

 

so... to all there... maybe not reliably within this post, but far easier to find out there on the net.

[farcanell]

To people waffling on about emotions and law.... because they still are

 

this article is as much about emotion, as law, if you read the OP

 

ms vervains mother said " I am amazed that it was automatically cut down to five years".... this sentiment is also reflected... more stridently in the links

 

so.... the OP introduced emotion.... not the posters, who certainly express a wide emotion of the same.

 

it is not unrealistic for a New Yorker to express this emotion, looking at her crippled baby girl, following such a harrowing ordeal....and this should be in all our minds.

 

now.... for us expats.... we know better and expect this.... but that should not mean that the story should dull us to the outrage that has happened, and does happen daily.

 

and again.... remove emotion ( and the expression of emotion) and you remove your humanity.

 

As to emotion in law.... only a fool would actually believe that emotions don't make and change laws, or influence sentencing.

 

AND YES.... VIGILANTISM IS NOT THE ANSWER.

 

common sense, protest ( outside courts or embassies) letters to representatives, etc, are part of the answer.... but perhaps we have become to used to the everyday abuse and lack of retribution we see daily, and just want to get by unmolested ourselves

 

that said.... contrarily, defending abusers is abhorrent ( to me, anyway), but in my country, we do see, on a regular basis, emotions change laws and sentencing practices

 

example... one punch killers now facing 15 years

 

please excuse my double rant, but I was trying to address a bunch of posts that popped while I was traveling home

 

( and yes... despite these things, I still love living in Thailand.... just not all things Thai)

 

[farcanell]

On 11/2/2016 at 10:53 AM, sanemax said:

 

    You can call people what you like, but that doesnt make them what you call them .

If someone did try to kill you, they wouldnt actually be labelled a killer until they had killed you .

There are two different laws, "Murder" and "Attempted murder"

You cannot seem to understand what I wrote 

I did say that he was responsible for what happened, then you say that Im mental and then you also say that he was responsible for what happened !!!!!!!!!!

   My point was that did nt deliberately throw her off the cliff .

Deliberately doing something on purpose is quite different to things happening that you are responsibly for .

   If you drive a car fast and it crashes, you would be responsible for the crash, but thats entirely different if you deliberately crashed a car on purpose 

 

Sorry posters

 

max.... you don't seem to understand..... correct.... he did not throw her off the cliff.

 

he instead, deliberately provoked such fear and terror in Hannah, that she fled over the cliff.

 

therefore.... he was responsible for the happenstance of the fall..... I fail to see how this is debatable.

 

if people want to mitigate this mans cullability, it must then be transferred to the tour company who provided a guide, that Hannah had every reason to trust, not to Hannah herself.....

 

unless .... we want to get back to that old chestnut of being guilty because she is pretty, in which case, responsible mothers should use blunt razors or acid to disfigure their children

 

what a stupid suggestion that is... right?

 

much like other stupid ascertations popping up in this forum

[farcanell]

On 11/2/2016 at 0:26 AM, Johnniey said:

I certainly am not  saying this. I don't know exactly what he did.  My point,  which you have strangely distorted was that  sexual assault is not as serious as  killing someone.

 

I'm sick of you putting words in my mouth.

 

 

 

Yer... it is,

 

in some places of the world.... and even worse.... as demonstrated by having it listed as a capital offense or an offense liable to life in prison

 

some people's still use sexual assault against women, as a form of terror, with dozens of men lining up for their turn, often killing or maiming the victim, who might even be a grand mother

 

are those machine pistols on your avatar?

[sanemax]

On 11/2/2016 at 10:53 AM, sanemax said:

 

   

You cannot seem to understand what I wrote 

I did say that he was responsible for what happened, then you say that Im mental and then you also say that he was

 

55 minutes ago, farcanell said:

therefore.... he was responsible for the happenstance of the fall..... I fail to see how this is debatable.

 

 

    No it isnt debatable,  because we are both saying the same thing .

We agree with each other, so we can not debate it !!!!!

[sanemax]

50 minutes ago, farcanell said:

 

Yer... it is,

 

in some places of the world.... and even worse.... as demonstrated by having it listed as a capital offense or an offense liable to life in prison

 

some people's still use sexual assault against women, as a form of terror, with dozens of men lining up for their turn, often killing or maiming the victim, who might even be a grand mother

 

are those machine pistols on your avatar?

 

   Although we have to stick to Thai laws and this story .

You shouldnt really be using this story to further your feminist agenda .

If you would like to discuss the story you speak of , you really should start a new thread about it

 

[sanemax]

“Mr Apai was convicted at Krabi Provincial Court on October 17 for committing sexual assault as well as ‘assault causing serious injury’

 

    I would have thought that the prosecution could have found more serious offences to charge him with .

   If that was all they could charge him with , then thats the reason why his sentence seems light .

Although he acted horrifically and caused his victim extreme suffering, he doesnt seem to have broken many laws .

   What he did after she fell was horrendous, but no more serious crimes were committed, (than the ones that he was charged with) .

   If it was a crime to act despicably, he would have gotton a life term . 

[farcanell]

Max..... it wasn't me who said you were mental..... nor was it me, that insinuated, in any way, that the perp was mentally challenged.... hell, there are photo of me, which make me look worse ( lol...one day an ex girlfried will undoubtedly stick one on the net)

 

although, and regrettably, I did accuse johnniey of being mates with this monster, and I'm am sorry for that glib comment, please accept my apologies for that one johnniey.

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, farcanell said:

Max..... it wasn't me who said you were mental..... nor was it me, that insinuated, in any way, that the perp was mentally challenged....

 

   I think that he was probably uneducated and from a poor background and poor conditions .

Low intelligence , no morals , no conciseness and do not know the difference between right and wrong

Unfortunately there are a number men like him .

They are like cavemen .

Animal instincts .

Woman > Sex

 

[farcanell]

14 minutes ago, sanemax said:

 

   I think that he was probably uneducated and from a poor background and poor conditions .

Low intelligence , no morals , no conciseness and do not know the difference between right and wrong

Unfortunately there are a number men like him .

They are like cavemen .

Animal instincts .

Woman > Sex

 

 

?????

 

yes yes yes..... and you and I, being more educated, are responsible to attempt to make changes to that very issue

 

at 321, you suggested I have a feminist agenda.... I don't... and undoubtedly will argue with amykat, before too long, just as I have with Mary sunshine ( assumedly both women, in this annonmous forum)

 

i have a humanitarian agenda... (usually.... sometimes it gets drunk), and believe that it is up to men to effect changes in this world, for everyone's benefit, because men control this world, with but a very few exceptions.

Edited November 3, 2016 by farcanell

[losworld]

Pathetic such a callous act should get 20 years or life.  Let the apologists post "can happen anywhere" and more. 

[sanemax]

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

 If it was a crime to act despicably, he would have gotton a life term . 

 

2 hours ago, farcanell said:

I see you still don't care about her side of the story...

 

    I cannot see how you can claim that I dont care about her side of the story, when you were replying to me where I stated that he deserves a life sentence for what he did .

[sanemax]

2 hours ago, farcanell said:

and it's not about what they could charge him with, it's about what they bothered to charge him with

 

    Well yeah, its about what they did charge him with and what they didnt charge him with .

And why didnt they charge him with more serious crimes ?

Whist what he did was terrible, what he did were not actually serious crimes .

Walking away and leaving someone laying there , isnt actually a crime

[bangkok2013]

people who cannot control their emotions ,and are such animals like that ,should be shot ,on behalf of all the abused women in this stupid retarded world.

 It is truly disgusting to live amongst ignorance of that caliber.Makes me want to puke ,to be part of this .  

[metisdead]

Posts citing laws regarding crimes in other countries are irrelevant in this thread as they may not apply here. Posting in this manner is off topic deflection, posts have been removed.  An inflammatory post attempting to bring the Koh Tao into this matter has been removed.  Please stay on this topic. 

[MiKT]

This thread seems to have degenerated into absolutely nothing of any interest, nothing really relevant to the poor girl or the sentence being halved, which is what thread is about; and I am pulling the plug.

 

Keep polishing your ego's - you know who you are and you are all male-ish. I would say that some of you bicker like old washerwomen, but it would be an insult to washerwomen.

 

 

[gigman]

Barbaric law no more to say.