Money Transfer From And Back To Thailand

[ThaiFarmer]

Hi fellows,

Question:

Can any of you smart and experienced guys/girls out there tell a beginner how to do to make it look like money from Khun Wife (legally earned in Thailand) are coming in from abroad to my account in Thailand (the one Thai Immigration check for Visa).

Why?:

Because there's no Visa for farang married to a RICH Thai wife and where the wife supports the farang. At least not what I'm aware of. Does this NEVER happen?

Background:

My wife is a Thai citizen and we have been married for 21 years and have no children. We are living in Sweden. My age is over 50 and hers below 50. We are planning to move to Thailand in a few years. Just now we are selling out all our assets and are sending the money to Thailand. We've just built (and paid) our house and now we are going to invest the main part of our money in some kind of business in Thailand. Yes, a sum will be put on a bank account in Thailand too (in my name if possible). I know I can't own house and land, but Khun Wife CAN and so she does. I'm not planning to work. We have no loans. The money from the business will be more than enough to feed us both. All are happy. EXCEPT the Visa Immigration staff. They want to see money coming in from ABROAD!! Yes, I will have a small pension from Sweden later but because I move to Thailand many years before the standard pension age in Sweden (65) my pension will be rather small, at least below the 70.000 THB a month that is required for Retirement Visa.

Conclusion:

Khun Wife will be rich because she will own all our COMMON capital. And of course she CAN support me with all this without problems. We have transferred all our capital to Thailand and invested it but Thai Immigration still wants to see money coming in from ABROAD when I live there.

So our only possibility is to transfer the money we earn in Thailand abroad and back to my bank account again just to satisfy Thai Immigration. It feels a bit stupid.

You probably have many comments of the text above, who owns what and when and why and so on, but please let us focus at the main question:

How can I make it look like money, earned in Thailand, looks as if they came in from abroad? Or even better, how can I "circulate" the 800 000 THB (needed for retirement visa for example), that I already have, from a Thai bank account to a bank account abroad and back again?

Proposals:

1. Every year I can take 800 000 THB with me from Thailand, go to Sweden and transfer it back to Thailand from there. Expensive and not very realistic.

2. As #1 above but going to, for example, Laos and transfer the money back to Thailand. Is it legal and will Thai Immigration accept Laos as "abroad"?

3. Find a foreign (perhaps Swedish) bank's office in Thailand who can help me. But HOW, do you think?

4. Open a bank account in Switzerland for example and transfer money back and forwards. Theoretically possible perhaps! But practically?!

In other words:

How? Can I send money from Thailand to another country without problems? If so, how can I transfer it back again and make them to land on my "special bank account" (the one Thai Immigration looks at)??

Anyone who has done this for real? Please advice me. In DETAIL please! PLEASE!!!

[lopburi3]

Firstly you are married so you do not need a retirement visa - you can use a support for Thai wife which only requires 400k in the bank/income per year. Show your pension income and have enough in a local bank account to make up the difference. If income from pension is below 35,000 per month they may question you but believe they will be reasonable about it.

As there is new enforcement taking place now believe what worked in the past may be history; but it sounds as if you may be ok.

[ThaiFarmer]

Hi Lopburi3,

Thank you very much for your fast reaction. But, but, but.....

Problem #1: There will be a few years WITHOUT pension from Sweden so I don't have any regular income to show them! But I can put 400 000 or 800 000 THB in the bank account. Probably more!

(I will have my whole "fortune" invested in Thailand. But that's not enough for them. They want me to show INCOME from Sweden too!! )

Problem #2: What I've understood they want to see money coming in from abroad. If I have (which I don't have even the first few years) a pension below 35 000 THB/month I have to fill up with money coming from abroad. Not from another Thai account with money coming from Thailand (=Khun Wife ). Or have I misunderstood something? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Problem #3: So my first problem remains. I have to "circulate" the 400 000 or 800 000 THB in the bank account! First out and then in to the country again. The same procedure every year!

Or do you have another solution, Lopburi3? Maybe we all together can convince Thai Authorities to create a new visa category "Thai wife supporting farang husband with business bought from farangs money"............... !!

I still feel like I need advices for sending money out from Thailand and then back again to the account where Thai Immigration checks.

Anyone who knows? Someone out there must have tried this method. I'm sure!! Please tell me how you did it.

[lopburi3]

You are not going to fool anyone as accounts in the future will be monitored for this kind of activity.

You are right that the money must come from outside Thailand if you do not have a work permit. And they are going to be checking this closely. That is why I would strongly advise you to work with immigration rather than trying to fool them. They can probably suggest a way for you.

If you have not transferred money yet you might want to wait until you have everything nailed down. Perhaps you could buy a business and hire wife to run it if no other way. But really would suggest you both talk with immigration folks.

[Khun Larry]

We are planning to move to Thailand in a few years. Just now we are selling out all our assets and are sending the money to Thailand. We've just built (and paid) our house and now we are going to invest the main part of our money in some kind of business in Thailand. Yes, a sum will be put on a bank account in Thailand too (in my name if possible).

Why are you sending so much of your assets to Thailand then asking for advice on how to get the very same assets out of Thailand? If you do nothing you will have accomplished your goal.

Also, you plan is very risky (crazy in fact). Your assets should remain in your home country. If Thailand cannot offer you full citizenship, sending all your assets to Thailand is ludicrous.

Get an unbiased second opinion from a financial planner and also from some people familiar with Thais and thai money customes. If nothing else, put your assets in a revocable trust with a bank in your home country with instructions to send you the minimum needed for a retirement visa.

Chookdee

[Dah fahrang]

Do as we are.

1. Sell your property overseas - if you so choose, (in my case the UK) and invest the money on a fixed term deposit, offshore in Channel Islands. Banks there are offering 4.5% for one year fixed deposits in £££ sterling - don't fix for more as % sterling rates are tipped to go up to 6% or more next couple of years. Take the interest from this monthly and re-invest it - banks in UK have on-line web accounts paying 4.3% gross.

Send enough to Thailand to tide you over for first year - immigration, building, vehicle, eating etc. This is the B400K so talked about. Don't forget to send enough to live off for the first two months as well - so when you go to Immigration thre is still B400K in your account. After one year, pay away the invested interst payments to Thailand - enough to confirm to immigration (1) the money is legitimately coming from overseas, and (2) to live off - which is why they set the threshold in the first place!

Your capital (savings) remains offshore from everywhere - gaining interest tax free. That interest gathers interest in an account you can operate on-line, and you remit sufficient of these SAVINGS to Thailand, which are not taxable, as they are just that - savings from overseas. See Thai Tax website at

www.rd.go.th

PS: proof of funds from overseas appear in your bank passbook with 'funny' codings next to amounts deposited - such as XDP and ODP.

Good luck.

[ThaiFarmer]

You are not going to fool anyone as accounts in the future will be monitored for this kind of activity.

Hi Lopburi3,

Is it forbidden for Khun Wife or anyone else to send money OUT from Thailand to my "poor" family in Sweden for example? Please tell me because I don't know all the rules yet. And is it forbidden for someone abroad to send money to my account in Thailand? If the answer of the two questions is NO, then what's the problem? The transactions may be monitored! Yes, but so what.

But please calm down! Yes, we WILL talk to Immigration Authorities when the time comes! Of course!! I just want to test the limits. Excuse me for being a little provocative. But I'm just testing all the possible alternatives.

By the way, your idea about Marriage Visa sounds like a better alternative for me. And you have some other good ideas too. Thank you for your consideration. I appreciate it.

Hi Khun Larry,

No, I'm not crazy. It just sounds like that..................everything is under control (I think. Hmmm... is it...?!! Well, hope so! ).

Good idea of yours to keep all my assets in Sweden. Why didn't I think of that! It's a very secure place if you don't consider the Swedish tax system! In Sweden we even have tax on tax. Try to beat that if you can! Why do you think I want to leave Sweden? But then of course I can put my assets in another country. Just wonder how I (=Khun Wife ) can start a business in Thailand with all our assets in Sweden??? Hmmm..... a delicate challenge!

Thank you and chokdee to yourself.

Hi Dah farang,

You have some very good ideas. I will penetrate what you've said thoroughly. Thank you so much for taking your time and sharing your thoughts with me!

[Jeff1]

How can I find out more about these " channel islands banks " ?

Thaifarmer, put money in bank somewhere and bring atm card with you to Thailand

Make monthly deposits from bank card as proof of overseas income.

They probally got that figured out too.

[kasi]

I looks like channel island banking is having some difficulties.

Look into swiss annuities for a better asset protection plan.

[manfromoz]

Firstly, the 400k / 800k amounts are MINIMUM to show that you can support yourself and/or family for a year without working or receiving income in Thailand.

If you are suggesting that you will have a lot more than that in a bank account and can show immigration that he account is being used over the year to support you and wife the immigration won't be overly worried as you will have shown that you are not needing to work to gain income and support yourself. By providing a copy of your bankbook showing regular withdrawals this will be achived. Which by the way ois being required anyway. It is no longer possible to tranfer money into a bank and then remove it when you get your visa.

A joint name on the bank account will also overcome many of the problems being outlined here.

Why does everyone take the problematic approach to anything to do with immigration (in any country). There are a set of rules and guidelines that need to be followed. If you follow them and provide the information requested you don't have problems. Well most of the time anyway.

[ka12345]

I got a document from the Soi Suan Plu office a while ago that explained all the rules for family visas. One of the headlines was if the Thai spouse supported the foreign spouse. I didn't read the details under that headline, but obviously this case is covered too.

I would suggest that you contact the Thai Immigration department (or Thai embassy if you are not in TH) and ask them.

[Richard Hall]

Why?:

Because there's no Visa for farang married to a RICH Thai wife and where the wife supports the farang. At least not what I'm aware of. Does this NEVER happen?

Hi ThaiFarmer,

The rules in terms of a support visa (Non-Immigrant O) states "supports OR IS BEING SUPPORTED" as follows (link: http://www.imm3.police.go.th/eng/eng_Applying_child.html). It refers to a CHILD but on the other hand the requirements do not ask for a birth certificate as proof but rather a mariage certificate(!!??). Maybe it is not meant to read Thai national child but rather Thai national citizen (in case they consider all Thai nationals born in Thailand to be Thailand's children). If Immigration remains stubborn your wife could adopt you as her child (which sounds rediculous but well, just the option if Immigration insists to follow the rules to the word).

"Applying for an extension for foreigner who supports or is being supported by a Thai national child or a child who has residence in Thailand

Initial place to contact:

A non-immigrant visa "code O" must be obtained at the Royal Thai Embassy or Consulate abroad before entering the country.

Duration of the first permit:

As warranted by this visa, the applicant will receive permission to stay for 90 days.

Duration of extension:

If granted, its maximum extension will be for one year at a time.

Requirements:

1. Application Form (T.M. 7)

2. A copy of passport or document used in lieu of passport

3. The applicant’s 4x6 cm. photo.

4. Marriage certificate.

5. Extension fee, Baht 1,900.

6. Evidence to identify that the supporter or the one being supported has Thai nationality or is residing in Thailand.

7. Evidence to identify that the supporter or the one being supported has Thai nationality or residence in Thailand.

8. If the applicant is the supporter, he must submit financial evidence, proof of employment, work permit and tax receipts."

ThaiFarmer, suggest you consult immigration in Bangkok or the embassy in Sweden about this because this appears to be the best (because legal) way to go instead of trying to shift money around to fool the authorities. Alternatively, (although more expensive and greater hassle because you have to pay taxes and apply for a work permit) you could become an employee of your wife's business (at least on the paper but actually hold an inactive job).

Good luck and if you decide to follow the suggested path (and hopefully succeed) you may want to share your experiences with the forum.

Richard

[lopburi3]

If the answer of the two questions is NO, then what's the problem?

Fraud is not legal and in the context cited I believe it could be considered fraud. But I am not a lawyer and am not saying you could not do it. But why take a chance? It seems some of us feel we have to find ways around rules even when we can live within them. Just don't understand that.

[ka12345]

On the other hand, maybe this guy just want to know how to smuggle money out of Thailand without paying the currency export duty...?

[Dah fahrang]

I looks like channel island banking is having some difficulties.

Look into swiss annuities for a better asset protection plan.

Kasi:

what might these 'difficulties' be?

I'm not having any - deposits guaranteed through UK based offshore branch, no tax, and interest rates based on UK base rate.

do you know something I don't, then?

[kasi]

It might just be for dollar acounts and looking closer it seems like old info. But it caught my eye.

see what you think.

http://www2.privacy-consultants.com/nlet/p...t_04_1997.shtml

[Dah fahrang]

Yes, I Think it is.

We opened an account in ££ sterling, and had to go to extensive lengths to prove our identity, where we had lived for last three years and source of funds.

This is to comply with money laundering reg's. Without this, they simply wouuldn't do business!

Interestingly, all the banks we look at, in the 'small print' state the accounts are not available to US citizens. I believe this is because unlike the UK tax authorities, who only tax income derived from UK sources for residents and non-residents, the US taxman taxes money worlwide - whatever your residence status.

Certainly, for me as a UK citizen and ex-resident, the account operates smoothly, with no tax liability at all - as long as I keep out of the UK for most of any given tax year!

[redbyte]

ThaiFarmer,

I believe a thing that would help you is internet banking, Thaifarmers and SCB etc do internet banking and I would lay money on your Swedish bank having the service. Look into combining this with SWIFT, I used to receive money from a client in Hong Kong whilst resident in Bangkok and I know he used to do it from his laptop via the SWIFT service into my Thai account and I got my grubby little hands on it two days later. Damned fine service in my opinion and in the future I intend to use the same.

Redbyte

[LRimmler]

I would think you could set up a fixed income annuity in your home country that would simulate Social Security or a pension.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

You are not going to fool anyone as accounts in the future will be monitored for this kind of activity.

Hi Lopburi3,

Is it forbidden for Khun Wife or anyone else to send money OUT from Thailand to my "poor" family in Sweden for example? Please tell me because I don't know all the rules yet. And is it forbidden for someone abroad to send money to my account in Thailand? If the answer of the two questions is NO, then what's the problem? The transactions may be monitored! Yes, but so what.

But please calm down! Yes, we WILL talk to Immigration Authorities when the time comes! Of course!! I just want to test the limits. Excuse me for being a little provocative. But I'm just testing all the possible alternatives.

By the way, your idea about Marriage Visa sounds like a better alternative for me. And you have some other good ideas too. Thank you for your consideration. I appreciate it.

Hi Khun Larry,

No, I'm not crazy. It just sounds like that..................everything is under control (I think. Hmmm... is it...?!! Well, hope so! ).

Good idea of yours to keep all my assets in Sweden. Why didn't I think of that! It's a very secure place if you don't consider the Swedish tax system! In Sweden we even have tax on tax. Try to beat that if you can! Why do you think I want to leave Sweden? But then of course I can put my assets in another country. Just wonder how I (=Khun Wife ) can start a business in Thailand with all our assets in Sweden??? Hmmm..... a delicate challenge!

Thank you and chokdee to yourself.

Hi Dah farang,

You have some very good ideas. I will penetrate what you've said thoroughly. Thank you so much for taking your time and sharing your thoughts with me!

Kind regards,

ThaiFarmer

You well may not be crazy, but you are making all this very complex. Too complex for comfort.

[ThaiFarmer]

You well may not be crazy, but you are making all this very complex. Too complex for comfort.

Yes Dr.! I agree with you. To complex for comfort . But I have not made the rules! Perhaps you have some SIMPLE suggestions to share with me and obviously quite a few others who have the same thoughts/problems.........!??

Now I'm looking forward to a detailed and comfortable prescription from Khun Dr. PP

[Khun ?]

Yes, I Think it is.

We opened an account in ££ sterling, and had to go to extensive lengths to prove our identity, where we had lived for last three years and source of funds.

This is to comply with money laundering reg's. Without this, they simply wouuldn't do business!

Interestingly, all the banks we look at, in the 'small print' state the accounts are not available to US citizens. I believe this is because unlike the UK tax authorities, who only tax income derived from UK sources for residents and non-residents, the US taxman taxes money worlwide - whatever your residence status.

Certainly, for me as a UK citizen and ex-resident, the account operates smoothly, with no tax liability at all - as long as I keep out of the UK for most of any given tax year!

Yes the USA does tax any income IAW U.S. tax laws. Interest will be taxed as it would in the USA regardless where it comes fom. Overseas wages $80,000 is tax free if you meet the required tax laws ( 330 days out of country of a consecitive 360 time period) or residents. You may be able to give up your citizenship along with any benefits in the future if uncle sammy agrees.

In other words if you are going to get a few million bones overseas some how uncle sam may just say they would rather have their tax dollars than your citizenship so you will be considered a tax evasion case and will never be able to return without arrest ( unless someone like clinton pardons you). Maybe better to do what many of them do is fake an illness or injury and of course being such a cold place like Sweet den you will need to relocate to a warmer climate. At least the guy is not trying to take the other tax

payers for a ride.

###### by the time I get my benefits their will be to many 20 years younger than me that already spent my share. Integrity and honesty seems to be a couple things that is lacking of many creatures that show up in Thailand.

If you start with 880,000 baht in the bank and keep at least 400K in there for the second year you can worry about the third year when it comes.