Thai farmers falling victim to outdated values

[webfact]

Thai farmers falling victim to outdated values  
By Kasamakorn Chanwanpen 
The Nation

 

 

BANGKOK: -- With Buddhism as its majority religion, Thai society’s ethical norms are based largely on religious morality. Some insist that these norms underpin the national identity that holds this country together, but others suggest they may also be the very thing trapping Thailand and impeding its development.

 

The Thai people are well known for being kind and generous, in line with the Buddhist principle of metta. Thailand had safety nets and systems to help underprivileged citizens long before the emergence of the Internet, with its networks and crowdfunding. 

Two decades ago, 10-minute television programmes aired heart-rending stories of people living hand-to-mouth existences in deprived rural areas. At the end of the programme viewers were given information on where they could make a donation.

 

Full story: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/politics/30299397

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2016-11-08

[PatOngo]

Only farmers???

[waldroj]

Just build a wall around the country - that seems to be the solution postulated by other "leadership" pretenders in the world at the moment !!!

It would be even more appropriate for Thailand if it believes its "...society’s ethical norms are based largely on religious morality...".

[mikebike]

Ah - the refreshing stench of the Global Corporatocracy venting its vitriol through The Nation. Did Monsanto co-author the article?

[Rorri]

21 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Ah - the refreshing stench of the Global Corporatocracy venting its vitriol through The Nation. Did Monsanto co-author the article?

Wow, you must be fun to chat with, no wonder you hide in Thai, the rest of the world must be very scary... conspiracy after conspiracy after conspiracy.

Having said that, I have no idea what your comment has to do with this article, perhaps you can explain, so we can analyze it and understand it.

 

Edited November 7, 2016 by Rorri

[mikebike]

17 minutes ago, Rorri said:

Wow, you must be fun to chat with, no wonder you hide in Thai, the rest of the world must be very scary... conspiracy after conspiracy after conspiracy.

Having said that, I have no idea what your comment has to do with this article, perhaps you can explain, so we can analyze it and understand it.

 

 

Hide? I have biz interests globally. What my comment has to do with the article is consolidation in the farming industry/food chain.

[Rorri]

7 minutes ago, mikebike said:

 

Hide? I have biz interests globally. What my comment has to do with the article is consolidation in the farming industry/food chain.

Still has nothing to do with this article, which has nothing to do with Monsanto or "Global Corporatocracy".

Edited November 7, 2016 by Rorri

[mikebike]

Ok with me if you are oblivious to subtext.

[selftaopath]

1 hour ago, PatOngo said:

Only farmers???

Yea.... lol.  I'm still "getting my head around"  Thai society’s ethical norms. Humnnnnnn ????? What might they be? Difficult to see/observe habitually. I'd love to see as many examples as possible. Humnnnnnn or is that an oxymoron like "business ethics"? 

[trogers]

A double edged sword - assistance to the needy, but also an invitation to the lazy.

[Kasset Tak]

The problem lies with the majority of farmers/people that don't want to change/learn new things and then some are just lazy:

*  Last year there was a drought here in Thailand and the farmers was told to grow other crops than rice... many farmers answered "I can not do that, I'm a rice farmer.".

*  I worked on the final stages of a 10 year project about crop-rotation (rice, corn and soybean) between MOAC and OVEC... after 3 years most farmers involved had stopped because they had to work more. Those farmers who were still using crop rotation after 10 year was way better of financially compared to those who was back to grow only 1 crop as they either used about 80% less chemicals than average (in Thailand) and some didn't use any chemicals at all as they had choose to grow organic crops.

*One of my friends is a contract farmer and he takes about 1400 piglets in each batch. Today he only have workers from Myanmar as the villagers from the villages surrounding his farm say that "It's better to lay in the hammock drinking lao kao than work for 300 Baht a day."!

 

[ksamuiguy]

Most farmers don't have Facebook, or the internet, many can not read or understand the Big Words. They only have rumors, and false information designed to keep them "in line" following the wims of the people who take advantage of their inability to either get reliable information or assistance from honest and reliable sources.  If they ever did get organized through whatever means the shit would really hit the fan. So keep them barefoot and pregnant and only tell them what they want to hear!

 

I have seen this over the years here in Thailand. Giving them money won't solve their problems, education and recognition as one of the most important sectors of Thai Society will.

 

The government (not the politicians) need to organize a "Road Show" go all over Thailand, every village and tam-boon, advertise and announce your intention,  well in advance by signs, trucks with speakers, representatives visiting their farms or villages.

 

Most farmers don't know their rights  or what free resources are available to them and what to do if they think they are getting screwed, who to call and have some one answer the phone 24/7.

Do not involve politicians, companies, out side people to interfere or attend these meetings, just the farmers so they will open up to a non-bias person. A lawyer would even be advisable to answer questions.

 

It's time you got "The Farmers" on Their Countries side and brought them the recognition and respect they deserve.

 

The above is just my opinion after over 40 years here in Thailand

 

 

[The man from udon]

Thais kind and generous????? That's a new one on me.i must be the most unluckiest farang around.everyone of them I've met wants to take me to the cleaners.

[Enoon]

The Internal Imperialists of Thailand have found it easier to keep control by maintaining a system which is little more than subsistence farming.

 

Those not chained to the farm were "sold" as indentured wage slaves to work in the factories of foreign "investors".

 

The author is now asking the rural community to die quietly so that the land can be turned over to big agriculture.

 

It was the overlords choice and their failure, not the "failure" of Buddhist ethical norms.

 

They have "sown the wind".

 

 

Edited November 8, 2016 by Enoon

[IMA_FARANG]

Pure nonsense.

The trurth about Thai farmers and Thai sociey in general is that they have replaed the old "Thai values" which have been replaced by a matierialistic Capitalist ethics system imported from the west as "Pfogress" by a new group of city dwellers whose new valies are profit and "me first" values of western matierialism and greed.

Foe many Thais the "cellphone" and the "credit card" have become the new religion and dominate their "system of me first Ethics"today.

 

 

[The man from udon]

Most Thai farmers have more land than what you could only dream about owning in the western world.everytime I go into the bank you can here the money counting machine going full speed and blocks of cash passing hands.they are stuck in a different time warp and will sit there with a fat bank account and only invest in a bag of fertiliser.the thought of them investing in tractors,land irrigation etc are a no no.if you want to farm like a hundred years ago,expect the wages of a hundred years ago.i have no sympathy for them.i have paid more for my farm land here than it costs in Cambridgeshire,uk...£12,000 for a rai and a half.she would of had to grow rice into the next century to get that sort of money back.oh and by the way,the woman who sold me the land sits there claiming poverty and works her other god knows how many rai with a old hoe.land around udon thani has sky rocketed over the last 10 years and they can't work it out to sell a couple of rai to a daft farang and modernise the rest.I'm not in any way bitter about the price of my land and can't wait until next year to build my retirement home and for a couple of £1,000 set up my fully automated hydroponic farm.

[Rorri]

4 hours ago, mikebike said:

Ok with me if you are oblivious to subtext.

Subtext definition: an underlying and often distinct theme in a piece of writing or conversation.

Perhaps you have the problem, as your comment still has no context in relation to the article. Did you read, and understand what the article is about?

[Grubster]

5 hours ago, mikebike said:

Ah - the refreshing stench of the Global Corporatocracy venting its vitriol through The Nation. Did Monsanto co-author the article?

I fully understand your post and there could be much written or said about it.  It gets a bit complicated as you know but in the end the Bigs win and the Smalls lose. Seems easy to see but maybe some don't want to see.

[mikebike]

34 minutes ago, Rorri said:

Subtext definition: an underlying and often distinct theme in a piece of writing or conversation.

Perhaps you have the problem, as your comment still has no context in relation to the article. Did you read, and understand what the article is about?

Yes. The authors framed their eagerness to replace sustainable farming with agribusiness as an attack on traditional values. My guess is, not only did you not understand the article, but that you do not understand the issues facing global agriculture or the food chain.

[monkey4u]

2 hours ago, The man from udon said:

Thais kind and generous????? That's a new one on me.i must be the most unluckiest farang around.everyone of them I've met wants to take me to the cleaners.

See!  

 They are being kind and generous, you no longer have to worry about money

They do that for you    

[sandemara]

Outdated? Feudalism? What sort of nonsense is this? The serfs are still happy   ...aren't they?  Somebody send out a squad of men-at-arms, find me a serf and ask him outright. - in the Palace of Id.

[Brer Fox]

The writer makes some valid points but the one comment I query is:

 

"But the ugly truth is that Thai farmers will continue to deliver millions of tonnes to a market already oversupplied with rice."

 

Who says the market is oversupplied and exactly what is described as the so called "market"? Are there not new markets out there if anyone tried looking.

 

I am sure there are a number of other reasons why the Thai rice industry is in trouble like greedy middle men and other bloodsuckers.

 

Sure the growers are continuing to produce millions of tonnes of rice some of which is sold and some of which is stored because at the price they want it is unsaleable. Or more to the point the price is not as good they used to get in the "good old days".

 

The question that needs to be asked is why is it Vietnam which produces twice the quantity of rice per hectare seems to have little trouble in selling their's at a price which is acceptable to them. They don't have stores bulging at the seams with millions of tonnes waiting for the price to go up. Efficiency of production production and lower costs and better and coordinated marketing seem to be the answer. In the meantime Thai farmers grow rice like they are living in medieval times.

 

Vietnam is looking forward to a viable rice industry and using the help of experts to expand markets and improve rice quality and lower costs by reducing pesticides, water, labour and seed.

 

http://vietnamnews.vn/society/345730/vn-should-sell-rice-to-africa-experts.html#A3ljix9zPi3YucPv.97

 

They seem to have the right formula and attitude; whats's the matter with Thailand?

Why can't they call for help from people like the International Rice Research Institute? I think we all know the answer to that.

 

[mikebike]

29 minutes ago, Brer Fox said:

The writer makes some valid points but the one comment I query is:

 

"But the ugly truth is that Thai farmers will continue to deliver millions of tonnes to a market already oversupplied with rice."

 

Who says the market is oversupplied and exactly what is described as the so called "market"? Are there not new markets out there if anyone tried looking.

 

I am sure there are a number of other reasons why the Thai rice industry is in trouble like greedy middle men and other bloodsuckers.

 

Sure the growers are continuing to produce millions of tonnes of rice some of which is sold and some of which is stored because at the price they want it is unsaleable. Or more to the point the price is not as good they used to get in the "good old days".

 

The question that needs to be asked is why is it Vietnam which produces twice the quantity of rice per hectare seems to have little trouble in selling their's at a price which is acceptable to them. They don't have stores bulging at the seams with millions of tonnes waiting for the price to go up. Efficiency of production production and lower costs and better and coordinated marketing seem to be the answer. In the meantime Thai farmers grow rice like they are living in medieval times.

 

Vietnam is looking forward to a viable rice industry and using the help of experts to expand markets and improve rice quality and lower costs by reducing pesticides, water, labour and seed.

 

http://vietnamnews.vn/society/345730/vn-should-sell-rice-to-africa-experts.html#A3ljix9zPi3YucPv.97

 

They seem to have the right formula and attitude; whats's the matter with Thailand?

Why can't they call for help from people like the International Rice Research Institute? I think we all know the answer to that.

 

And there ya go. Sounds reasonable no?

 

Until you research and find out that the IRRI was founded by the Ford and Rockefeller Foundations and that the IRRI has come under criticism for supporting a corporate agenda. IRRI is supposed to contribute to sustainable improvements in the productivity of agriculture and in particular to help low income people. But IRRI programmes have been judged by many to be both environmentally and socially destructive. 

This is because IRRI programmes have increased productivity though breeding seeds that rely on the heavy use of chemical inputs. For these inputs to be taken up by the plant requires conditions of heavy and frequent water use via irrigation.

There is also the issue of monocultures. IRRI has produced more than 300 High Yielding Varieties (HYVs) of rice, but prior to the diffusion of these varieties over 100,000 different rice varieties thrived in farmers' fields. 

The IRRI's rice variety IR8 launched the Green Revolution but it was variety IR36 - released in 1976 - which became the world's most widely planted variety of rice with 11 million hectares planted in Asia during the 1980s. The trend of displacement has continued. By the mid-1980s, just two HYVs occupied 98 per cent of the entire rice growing area of the Philippines.

In other words, adoption of IRRI's HYVs has created excellent opportunities for costly intensive agriculture inputs. Perhaps unsurprisingly, IRRI’s annual reports show grants from a whole array of US and European chemical corporations including Monsanto, Shell Chemical, Union Carbide Asia, Bayer Philippines, Eli Lily, OccidentalChemical, Ciba Geigy (later part of Novartis Seeds which is now part of Syngenta), Chevron Chemical, Upjohn, Hoechst, and Cyanamid Far East.

 

Rorri, do you  now understand that the article in The Nation is an attempt to influence public opinion against sustainable farming in favor of agribusiness?

Edited November 8, 2016 by mikebike

[Grubster]

1 hour ago, The man from udon said:

Most Thai farmers have more land than what you could only dream about owning in the western world.everytime I go into the bank you can here the money counting machine going full speed and blocks of cash passing hands.they are stuck in a different time warp and will sit there with a fat bank account and only invest in a bag of fertiliser.the thought of them investing in tractors,land irrigation etc are a no no.if you want to farm like a hundred years ago,expect the wages of a hundred years ago.i have no sympathy for them.i have paid more for my farm land here than it costs in Cambridgeshire,uk...£12,000 for a rai and a half.she would of had to grow rice into the next century to get that sort of money back.oh and by the way,the woman who sold me the land sits there claiming poverty and works her other god knows how many rai with a old hoe.land around udon thani has sky rocketed over the last 10 years and they can't work it out to sell a couple of rai to a daft farang and modernise the rest.I'm not in any way bitter about the price of my land and can't wait until next year to build my retirement home and for a couple of £1,000 set up my fully automated hydroponic farm.

Where I come from in the US the land is much more and I'm talking land that is far from a hard road or town. There if you are farming 500[1500 rai] acres or less you will soon lose the farm as you don't have enough equity to buy the equipment it takes to compete. Most have lost all because they couldn't pay the bank for the effort they made to survive with family farm intact.  Some who had their farm paid for just turned to cash rent to the bigs and move into town abandoning their families history [ hard for most to do ].  The bigs get nice subsidies and make millions of dollars from the taxpayers. They constantly cheat the government crop insurance program as they have many large farms in different areas. If they have a farm that is in a drought area, or storm hit area that qualifies for insurance payment, then 1/2 of the corn they pick there gets reported as picked from one of there other big farms, leaving them with a much bigger payment for the bad farm. The little guy can't do that. There will be big subsidies here when the Hi-So's own the land just watch.

[Brer Fox]

4 minutes ago, mikebike said:

And there ya go. Sounds reasonable no?

 

Until you research and find out that the IRRI was founded by the Ford and Rockefeller Foundations and that the IRRI has come under criticism for supporting a corporate agenda. IRRI is supposed to contribute to sustainable improvements in the productivity of agriculture and in particular to help low income people. But IRRI programmes have been judged by many to be both environmentally and socially destructive. 

This is because IRRI programmes have increased productivity though breeding seeds that rely on the heavy use of chemical inputs. For these inputs to be taken up by the plant requires conditions of heavy and frequent water use via irrigation.

There is also the issue of monocultures. IRRI has produced more than 300 High Yielding Varieties (HYVs) of rice, but prior to the diffusion of these varieties over 100,000 different rice varieties thrived in farmers' fields. 

The IRRI's rice variety IR8 launched the Green Revolution but it was variety IR36 - released in 1976 - which became the world's most widely planted variety of rice with 11 million hectares planted in Asia during the 1980s. The trend of displacement has continued. By the mid-1980s, just two HYVs occupied 98 per cent of the entire rice growing area of the Philippines.

 

Rorri, do you  now understand that the article in The Nation is an attempt to influence public opinion against sustainable farming in favor of agribusiness?

Well Googled mikebike! Very selective I am sure.

You should be telling the Vietnamese they have got it all wrong. Could we now have something from you that could be classed as constructive for the Thai rice industry.

[elgordo38]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

Thailand had safety nets and systems to help underprivileged citizens long before the emergence of the Internet, with its networks and crowdfunding. 

????? really

[Eligius]

The Buddhist values of compassion, wisdom, altruism, insight, non-pride, non-adherence to Tradition, etc. are far from outdated - rather, they are just very far from being implemented in top-down Thai society. Whereas 'selflessness' is a key Buddhist concept - much of Thai culture is obsessed with 'face' (= ego), grasping whatever can be grabbed (opposite of Buddhist non-materialism), and 'me, me, me'.

 

In fact, if genuine Buddhist values were implemented in this nation (as opposed to sham, fake, upside-down versions of the same) , we would no longer recognise this place as Thailand. Take one example: the Buddha said: 'Do not follow a thing just because it is Tradition or what you have been taught by your teachers'. Well, that puts pay to 'Buddhist' Thailand right away, doesn't it? Where would Thailand be without its lauded 'traditions' and exemplary 'teachers' and 'leaders' ??? 

 

Don't answer that one !

 

Edited November 8, 2016 by Eligius

[mikebike]

18 minutes ago, Brer Fox said:

Well Googled mikebike! Very selective I am sure.

You should be telling the Vietnamese they have got it all wrong. Could we now have something from you that could be classed as constructive for the Thai rice industry.

5555... didn't have to Google - had a bookmark! LobbyWatch.org is a great site.

 

Absolutely. Don't follow the global trend or listen to corporate-funded research think-tanks. Keep the farming industry in the hands of farmers. Develop in-nation PhD level research independent from agribusiness and sensitive to local, regional and national needs and goals. Agricultural boards (research/sales/distribution) should have at least 50% representation by local farmers. I could go on... basically do the opposite of what has killed sustainable family farming in the so-called developed nations.

[Brer Fox]

3 hours ago, mikebike said:

5555... didn't have to Google - had a bookmark! LobbyWatch.org is a great site.

 

Absolutely. Don't follow the global trend or listen to corporate-funded research think-tanks. Keep the farming industry in the hands of farmers. Develop in-nation PhD level research independent from agribusiness and sensitive to local, regional and national needs and goals. Agricultural boards (research/sales/distribution) should have at least 50% representation by local farmers. I could go on... basically do the opposite of what has killed sustainable family farming in the so-called developed nations.

I agree in part with what you say; particularly the bit about the structure of Agricultural Boards.

Here's something to chew on. Perhaps you might know if Thailand is a Most Favoured Country MFN in the Eurasian Economic Union (EAEU). I don't know, do you? Perhaps is they did have MFN staus it might help. Here is a recent news extract.

 

"EAEU has a set an initial quota of importing 10,000 tonnes of rice per year from Vietnam with zero tax. The above-quota amount will be levied the most-favoured nations (MFN) tax." 

[bangon04]

" Thai society’s ethical norms are based largely on religious morality.  "

 

?????? I was under the impression that Thai Society's ethical norms are based largely on Sakdina.....