9 hours ago, Chicog said:

It seems the Chinese might actually be happy about this...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-38060980

 

We we look back at this time as the beginning of the end of Western hegemony in firstly the Asia-Pacific region, and eventually the entire world.

 

Kicking off from just after the first exploratory voyages of Vasco De Gama, and the establishment of European empires on the Asian, South American and African continents, the West has ruled the roost and set the agenda. With the abandonment of the TPP the US, as the one remaining Superpower and defacto leader of the West has left the field and effectively ceded control of the Asia-Pacific region to China. The election of Trump confirms it.

 

The only remaining question is how long this will take to play out. 

 

 

trump ..
Making America isolationist again.

 
 
The only remaining question is how long this will take to play out. 

The game ends when China begins buying its oil with something other than $US.



Trump d'III

TPP went beyond just trade.
"It also would have set up open internet and copyright protections across the 12 nations, benefitting the entertainment industry and undercutting online piracy in China. The deal also included provisions against wildlife trafficking and child labor, holding countries such as Vietnam and Malaysia to higher standards."
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/nov/12/tpp-trade-deal-congress-obama

The problem is just like TTIP negotiations are top secret, and if a corporation does not like a governments law, they can sue.

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17 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I don't trust trump. Not news but don't know why anyone does. He has no experience and the way he's already mixed his campaign for presidency with his family and business interests are huge red flags. So trump dumps TPP and lets China dominate Asia. This doesn't smell right to me. China's government must be having a big party now. 

Face it, he's a bloody ISOLATIONIST allied with right wing extremists of the worse kind (white supremacist nativist racists).  It's nothing new in American history. Look up Henry Ford and Lindbergh ... but they never were president. 

 

God help us. 

 

Yes, I was reading an article in the Washington Post this morning about how Trump is using the presidency to further his business interests: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/21/a-running-list-of-how-donald-trumps-new-position-is-helping-his-business-interests/

 

Also, I did a search for, "Trump businesses that went bust" to try and understand why he thinks trashing the TTP is a good thing and found a report about his lack of business acumen which is really quite shocking: http://europe.newsweek.com/donald-trumps-business-failures-election-2016-486091?rm=eu

 

Worse still perhaps is the fact that he doesn't need congressional approval to tear up any of the free trade agreements which are currently in force like NAFTA. That will really cause an upset if he tears that one up as well. http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/14/news/economy/donald-trump-economic-plan-1-trillion/index.html?iid=EL

 

 

"Whatever we all think in January Trump will start his plan to make America great again."  I believe that is make America white again. TPP was nothing short of a corporate coup. It destroyed the ability, however slow and late, the US or any country had to protect it's environment, it's workers, it increased internet censorship, the price of medicines, and a host of other things that had absolutely nothing to do with "trade". The US already has trade agreements with most of the countries involved. The argument that it would "stop China" came late as it became apparent that the people finally were aware of the job destruction it would cost. The same with TTIP and all the other secret NOT trade agreements. Like NAFTA and all the other recent "trade" agreements, it would have cost American jobs and income. It wouldn't have done a damn thing to slow China's ambition to conquer the world and I doubt the fascist in chief has the slightest clue that the idiots he is hiring to "defeat" daesh are not paying attention to the real enemy, China.

 

While I seriously doubt the fascist will do this his first day, too busy making business deals and turning what's left of America into a banana republic, if he does it will probably be the one and only good thing he does until his own "party" impeaches him in favor of the religious wacko dominionist VP.

Whatever corporate interests my lose by Trump's withdrawal from the TPP,  they will make up many times over on all the tax cuts, loopholes, and deregulation that he is throwing their way.

58 minutes ago, Xircal said:

 

Yes, I was reading an article in the Washington Post this morning about how Trump is using the presidency to further his business interests: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/21/a-running-list-of-how-donald-trumps-new-position-is-helping-his-business-interests/

 

Also, I did a search for, "Trump businesses that went bust" to try and understand why he thinks trashing the TTP is a good thing and found a report about his lack of business acumen which is really quite shocking: http://europe.newsweek.com/donald-trumps-business-failures-election-2016-486091?rm=eu

 

Worse still perhaps is the fact that he doesn't need congressional approval to tear up any of the free trade agreements which are currently in force like NAFTA. That will really cause an upset if he tears that one up as well. http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/14/news/economy/donald-trump-economic-plan-1-trillion/index.html?iid=EL

 

 

Thanks, that kept me busy reading for 30 mins. All very interesting. What lies in store for the USA, it is not going to be good but it's sure going to be interesting.

 

 

Its funny how people dont trust mr trump...but they trust a treaty that has been negotiated in secret for the last 8 years. 

It's a bad judgement call in my opinion. TTP isn't about how much the US earns from the deal, but rather about containing Chinese ambitions in the region. In fact, the US would have earned less than 1% overal while countries like Vietnam would have seen its economies blossom by around 10%.

 

Also, the US could have stood up proudly and said that it was defending the interests of its friends in Asia and the South Pacific by ratifying the treaty even though it wouldn't benefit financially much. But that deal is now off the cards and the decision will likely rattle the nerves of allies still further given the rhetoric Trump has been sprouting lately about not defending NATO countries that haven't contributed 2% of GDP to defence. (He means they have to buy more guns, tanks, aircraft and missiles from the US).

 

But announcing that he'll be withdrawing from the TTP treaty on his first day in office would seem to indicate that he's taken that decision without consulting his advisers first. Had he done so I'm sure the Pentagon at the very least would have tried to dissuade him from doing so.

 

Trump is both a narcissistic and a greedy man. His record in business is abysmal and most of his wealth has come from his father. He now has the power to make decisions which affect the whole world and if there's something in it for him personally, I'm sure he won't hesitate to snap it up no matter what the cost to the rest of us.

On 11/22/2016 at 11:16 PM, tonbridgebrit said:

Great post you've put up.

Okay, I'm not a suppporter of putting taxes onto imports, but Trump will probably (or might) still impose them. You've mentioned the specific case of Apple, what about other products ? Basically, America is importing a vast amount of cheap Chinese goods. US workers will demand far higher wages than their Chinese counterparts earn, yes. But that's what Trump is on about, the reduction of cheap imports, and the creation of manufacturing jobs in America. Yes, the goods will be more expensive if made in America, but consumers might simply have to accept that. 

Who knows, the creation of new manufacturing jobs in America might generate votes for Trump, even though some people are going to be angry at the more expensive prices.

A trade war between America and China ?  Who is going to be hurt more ? I think China will be hurt more. China already has a giant monthly trade surplus with America, a massive trade war will simply reduce the Chinese surplus ?  As in, put simply, if China and America stop trading with each other (an extreme case, I know) well, there's going to be no American deficit with China. Surely ??

 

There is this odd belief that a manufacturing job will somehow be a good paying job. The fact of the matter is that without unions, there is very little chance that workers will be well paid.  In Germany where unions are strong, workers are well paid. But in the USA the Republicans have managed to severely damage the unions. And it gets even better. The kind of judges that Trump wants to appoint are generally very pro business and very anti-labor There is now a lot of conservative support for the idea that mandatory payment of union dues should be declared unconstitutional.  Go Trump!