Rich guys in, poor guys out

[mrdome]

15 hours ago, brain150 said:

I am a so called "low life' as by definition anybody who frequents "bars" or talks with "bar girls" has to be a "low life".

 

... I also speak 5 languages, have a master degree from a university and employ 7 Thai people, but that's not relevant I guess

because I am not drinking champagne or frequent 5 star hotels or restaurants and I am also done with temples.

I am guilty as hell on being a real low life ...

 

This whole discussion is so much BS it's just funny !

It's about greed greed and greed again and nothing else !

 

Just carry on and don't take it personal.

 

Jai yen yen.

Edited November 25, 2016 by metisdead
Bold font removed.

[Docno]

7 hours ago, ChrisKC said:

But in the long term, "backpackers" can become rich people. Sustainable tourism is based a lot on returning visitors.

If you want to use the term, sustainable tourism, you should refer to the Bhutan model. The government there is clear that they don't want tourism to adversely affect the culture and traditions of the country. Therefore they limit tourist numbers and require tourists to book pre-paid tours through one of a limited number of tourist companies. Tourists are required to pay a minimum of US$250 a day during their vsisits. From what I understand, there is high demand and they don't have drunken singlet-wearing tattooed westerners beating the crap out of each other on the streets...

[Docno]

2 hours ago, Mitkof Island said:

Is that such a bad thing? Really work for a living instead of cleaning out the empty headed foreign walking ATM's ?

Doing what jobs? A lot of the farm work is now being done by machines. Your first clue is that the agricultural sector hasn't collapsed with the flight of people to the cities. It's  all very well to say that people should get a 'legitimate ' job, but those jobs have to exist in the first place....

[Mitkof Island]

1 hour ago, Docno said:

If you want to use the term, sustainable tourism, you should refer to the Bhutan model. The government there is clear that they don't want tourism to adversely affect the culture and traditions of the country. Therefore they limit tourist numbers and require tourists to book pre-paid tours through one of a limited number of tourist companies. Tourists are required to pay a minimum of US$250 a day during their vsisits. From what I understand, there is high demand and they don't have drunken singlet-wearing tattooed westerners beating the crap out of each other on the streets...

How refreshing. Sure would thin out a few million drunken tattooed low lifes from Thailand. Cambodia is waiting for you.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Mitkof Island

[williamgeorgeallen]

3 hours ago, Mitkof Island said:

Is that such a bad thing? Really work for a living instead of cleaning out the empty headed foreign walking ATM's ?

they cant go back to working in the sun. years of sleeping days has turned their skin white and it cant handle the esan sun any more.

[williamgeorgeallen]

1 hour ago, Docno said:

Doing what jobs? A lot of the farm work is now being done by machines. Your first clue is that the agricultural sector hasn't collapsed with the flight of people to the cities. It's  all very well to say that people should get a 'legitimate ' job, but those jobs have to exist in the first place....

was just up in esan and you are right. there are many tractors but very few buffaloes, even they are being put out of work. at least they can still be useful in a different way although i find their meat very tough.

[fruitman]

4 hours ago, brain150 said:

It's about greed greed and greed again and nothing else !

 

Nope it's not only greed, there really are too many tourists ruining the islands and beaches.

 

On the other hand,  25 years ago there really was nobody on the beaches in Thailand, the Thai couldn't be bothered. I've seen Phuket beaches totally empty and priscine.

Edited November 25, 2016 by fruitman

[Craig krup]

10 hours ago, gamini said:

its thier country. why shold they not want a better class of retiree. same as most countries.

 

Yeah, but "want" doesn't really come into it, does it? If wishes were horses beggars would ride. You can't have champagne tastes on beer money. If your built environment and culture is "x" - whatever - then that'll have consequences for everything else. 

 

If they think their revenue maximising position is on a different point of the curve then there are things they can do, but the best estimate of what you can get for what you're selling is what you're presently getting for what you're selling. "The behaviour of the masses excludes the minority by creating an environment they won't accept, so raising prices rids us of the hoi polloi, and that act alone will make for a better offer to the richer, who'll (overall) give us more" is a reasonable argument. It makes sense. But you have to wonder whether - outside of a few islands - it's really true. 

[A1Str8]

Yes, good. 

[metisdead]

Some offensive posts have been removed. 

[Mitkof Island]

13 hours ago, fruitman said:

 

Nope it's not only greed, there really are too many tourists ruining the islands and beaches.

 

On the other hand,  25 years ago there really was nobody on the beaches in Thailand, the Thai couldn't be bothered. I've seen Phuket beaches totally empty and priscine.

Was paradise then. Paradise lost now. Mass tourism and the types of foreigners it attracts has destroyed much of Thailand. Most of the good quality foreigners have either left or won,t come here. They did not travel half way around the world to hang with other foreigners, eat the same food they left behind, nor do the same things they left behind. Good foreigners want nothing to do with the majority that visit here now or live here. Koh Phi Phi now for example is an over run crap hole. Who wants to sit on a beach with 10,000 foreigners a day traveling there ? Quality foreigners don,t wish to hang with that group. If the Thai government wants quality they need to raise the visa fees much higher and be super picky as to who they allow to enter. Personally i would be willing to pay much more for my visa to stay here. No sane foreigner wants this.

[Mooner]

The quality tourists wont come because some Thais were too busy filling their pockets rather than making a long term plans to sustain a quality enviroment for future visitors and residents.

 

If you dont take care of your property and land nobody is going to do it for you.

There are plenty of countries around the world that have had mass tourism for decades that are still clean and have good infrastructures and make plans for the future to protect and maintain their livelihoods.

Thailand has just been winging it and now they are seeing cracks in the wall and they are looking around for people to blame.

 

No foresight here. No thought of consequences. People turning corners on the wrong side of the road.

Pulling out without looking.

Dumping plastic bags, bottles etc everywhere.

Feeding of soi dogs but not taking care of them or nutering them so next year there are 5 more dogs.

Over fishing. Crabs are so small at the local market its barely worth opening them. Cant anyone think we should throw these small ones back. Catch them next year.

Probably blame that on mass tourism too.

 

 

 

 

 

[geriatrickid]

23 hours ago, ChrisKC said:

But in the long term, "backpackers" can become rich people. Sustainable tourism is based a lot on returning visitors.

 

Yes they can. So what? many of my school mates who backpacked through Asia a few times have become relatively successful and "wealthy". Know what? None of them has any desire to return to Thailand. Not one. Know why?

1. Married with kids. Thaialnd just isn't the appropriate place for them.

2, Value for money. It isn't there anymore.

3. The type of farang who visits  thailand now acts to discourage the higher end, more profitable  visitors.  Seriously, who needs the hassle?

[gemguy]

On Friday, November 25, 2016 at 8:48 AM, louse1953 said:

I think you should educate the locals first on pollution.Typical thinking of blaming somebody else.

Watching the vdo further amazed to see the Ko Samui incinerator still broken down,how many years now,8 maybe.Spending a bit of tourism money on that would help.If he thinks he is shipping that pile to the mainland,tell him he is dreaming.

Generally they rely on other people to clean up their mess or any mess they personally made.

That sense of each individual doing their part to not mess things up is simply not on their minds rather they are thinking: Everyone else does it, so I do also ....as in ( Monkey See, Monkey Do ) and take very little responsibility or accountability in doing their part to not make matters worse.

Not all of them of course ..but all too many as you see obvious amounts of garbage strewn everywhere and or piling up while they just keep on discarding the garbage anywhere that suits them.

The fact of the matter is: 30 to 40 to 50 years ago, the so called developed countries, had similar problems concerning all the garbage and waste having to be addressed because of mass consumerism and the huge volumes of waste product being generated

Those countries had to "catch up",  so to speak, and deal with the ever increasing amounts of waste and trash and refuse in general caused by mass consumerism while many countries have addressed those particular concerning issues.

Some of those countries are now role models for waste management which can not be achieved without the cooperation and the daily participation of the citizens themselves.

So, the question is: Can or could the Thai people organize themselves in a manner that addresses the huge problems concerning all the waste and rubbish and refuse created by mass consumerism and or the various industries that create and sustain the mass consumerism resulting in all the huge amounts of garbage created.

I say: "Sort Of" ...while it would take them a much longer time , maybe 3 to 4 times longer than the examples set by other nations.

Meantime, it seems to me that most Thai people do not mind all the garbage surrounding them and seemingly content to wallow about in all the garbage and pay no attention to it...is it is not their concern or their responsibility...right?

 

Cheers  

[Strange]

16 hours ago, Docno said:

Doing what jobs? A lot of the farm work is now being done by machines. Your first clue is that the agricultural sector hasn't collapsed with the flight of people to the cities. It's  all very well to say that people should get a 'legitimate ' job, but those jobs have to exist in the first place....

 

The only aspect of farm work done by machines of any notable scale is tilling & harvesting and even then its hardly notable.

 

I believe there would be more job opportunities of people actually tried to do a good job and took their jobs seriously as a way that supports their livelihood. 

[fruitman]

1 hour ago, Mitkof Island said:

Was paradise then. Paradise lost now. Mass tourism and the types of foreigners it attracts has destroyed much of Thailand. Most of the good quality foreigners have either left or won,t come here. They did not travel half way around the world to hang with other foreigners, eat the same food they left behind, nor do the same things they left behind. Good foreigners want nothing to do with the majority that visit here now or live here. Koh Phi Phi now for example is an over run crap hole. Who wants to sit on a beach with 10,000 foreigners a day traveling there ? Quality foreigners don,t wish to hang with that group. If the Thai government wants quality they need to raise the visa fees much higher and be super picky as to who they allow to enter. Personally i would be willing to pay much more for my visa to stay here. No sane foreigner wants this.

 

When i was on phi phi (25 years ago) there was only 1 big resort right at that beach with the rocks at the entrance. (maya beach??).

 

There was another resort with bamboo huts without electricity, at night they started a generator (much noise) for the lights.

 

The beach was almost empty all day and no boats to be seen om maya beach.

[mania]

1 hour ago, geriatrickid said:

 

Yes they can. So what? many of my school mates who backpacked through Asia a few times have become relatively successful and "wealthy". Know what? None of them has any desire to return to Thailand. Not one. Know why?

1. Married with kids. Thaialnd just isn't the appropriate place for them.

2, Value for money. It isn't there anymore.

3. The type of farang who visits  thailand now acts to discourage the higher end, more profitable  visitors.  Seriously, who needs the hassle?

 

4. Believe it or not there are still folks in this world that

just give a country ruled by a Junta that took away its citizens rights

a wide berth....no matter how much that junta would like to claim rainbows & butterfly's

 

[Broken Record]

On 11/25/2016 at 8:56 AM, Emster23 said:

 

They will go to other tropical Asian countries instead.

I dunno, Farangs are always moaning about Thailand, but they still stay here.

 

Can't be that bad.

 

[opalred]

be nice us beachcombers have to find food and recycle 

[impulse]

3 hours ago, Mitkof Island said:

Perrsonally i would be willing to pay much more for my visa to stay here. No sane foreigner wants this.

 

It's gotta go way beyond the cost of a visa.  You can't have a pristine environment if people don't have to make some effort to get there, no matter what the cost.  That's why Thailand had pristine beaches way back then.  Most tourists were too lazy to make the effort.  Today, they don't have to.

 

The good news is that in my limited travels around Thailand, I've seen several gorgeous (dare I say pristine?) beaches.  But I had to kayak for miles or walk quite a ways beyond where any tourist van or boat could have dropped me.

 

I found the same in Yellowstone, 25 years ago.  All I had to do was walk 500 meters off the roadway, and it was like a different world.

 

But don't tell anyone.  As soon as they find out, they'll start running boats and (God forbid) build an airport.  Which will be a short-medium term economic boom, but a deathblow for a quality experience.  Unless you're just chasing the women or the ultimate buzz.  But that's a different type of tourism.

Edited November 26, 2016 by impulse

[fruitman]

1 hour ago, mania said:

4. Believe it or not there are still folks in this world that

just give a country ruled by a Junta that took away its citizens rights

a wide berth....no matter how much that junta would like to claim rainbows & butterfly's

 

 

Who cares? Let them stay away. 

 

The junta does nothing wrong and tries to improve Thailand. It was a very corrupt country and they just try to stop it. Nothing wrong with that, also since the army is in control Thailand is much safer.

[BernieOnTour]

23 hours ago, thhMan said:

If the incenerator is broken, why dont they just fix it...?

Instead they want to have a train of trucks going in and out of the area to transport it to another location, which then needs to deal with it???

 

Drive some of the soi's where tourists dont flock and you can see garbage piling up... from the locals...!

 

train of trucks aka. constant flow of money

[Mitkof Island]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

 

It's gotta go way beyond the cost of a visa.  You can't have a pristine environment if people don't have to make some effort to get there, no matter what the cost.  That's why Thailand had pristine beaches way back then.  Most tourists were too lazy to make the effort.  Today, they don't have to.

 

The good news is that in my limited travels around Thailand, I've seen several gorgeous (dare I say pristine?) beaches.  But I had to kayak for miles or walk quite a ways beyond where any tourist van or boat could have dropped me.

 

I found the same in Yellowstone, 25 years ago.  All I had to do was walk 500 meters off the roadway, and it was like a different world.

 

But don't tell anyone.  As soon as they find out, they'll start running boats and (God forbid) build an airport.  Which will be a short-medium term economic boom, but a deathblow for a quality experience.  Unless you're just chasing the women or the ultimate buzz.  But that's a different type of tourism.

don,t worry i keep my places a secret to everyone. The last thing i want are more girly bars and all the crap both thai and foreigner it attracts.

[kannot]

46 minutes ago, fruitman said:

 

Who cares? Let them stay away. 

 

The junta does nothing wrong and tries to improve Thailand. It was a very corrupt country and they just try to stop it. Nothing wrong with that, also since the army is in control Thailand is much safer.

its  a good  job the army isnt corrupt  then

[mania]

1 hour ago, fruitman said:

 

Who cares? Let them stay away. 

 

The junta does nothing wrong and tries to improve Thailand. It was a very corrupt country and they just try to stop it. Nothing wrong with that, also since the army is in control Thailand is much safer.

 

You should check out North Korea

quite safe

[elliss]

On 11/25/2016 at 9:58 AM, gamini said:

its thier country. why shold they not want a better class of retiree. same as most countries.

 

     Spot  on  ,

  LOS  has  been a haven for  lower  caste farlangs , for too long .

                           I  should know .555

[impulse]

Pick a country, any country.  Look up the rules for staying there long term, the costs, and the quality of life you'd have.

 

Then make a decision.  Beats the crap out of feeling angry that one of them may have become unaffordable (or maybe not).

 

There are thousands of hotels I can't afford to stay in, clubs I can't afford to join, and stuff I can't afford to buy- or don't qualify to do, no matter how much money I have.  That's life.  I prefer to focus on the great things I can do and I can have.  

 

Right up until I see that gorgeous babe I can't have in the ad selling hot cars I can't afford...  That's the trap.  Same with Thailand.

 

Edited November 27, 2016 by impulse

[Docno]

On ‎2016‎-‎11‎-‎25 at 8:53 PM, williamgeorgeallen said:

was just up in esan and you are right. there are many tractors but very few buffaloes, even they are being put out of work. at least they can still be useful in a different way although i find their meat very tough.

I recall that in the mid 2000s when oil prices had shot up, Isaan farmers were lamenting their reliance on machinery and missing days of the buffalo. I think I even read that some farmers were considering at that time moving 'back' to buffalo, but the knowledge of how to use them and care for them had been lost in many families. My own gf grew up among the beasts, but her family moved on to tractors more than 15 years ago.

[williamgeorgeallen]

51 minutes ago, Docno said:

I recall that in the mid 2000s when oil prices had shot up, Isaan farmers were lamenting their reliance on machinery and missing days of the buffalo. I think I even read that some farmers were considering at that time moving 'back' to buffalo, but the knowledge of how to use them and care for them had been lost in many families. My own gf grew up among the beasts, but her family moved on to tractors more than 15 years ago.

time marches on. my girl has quite a house and lawn. is getting harder to find someone to bring their buffaloes around to mow the lawn. from what i saw there are only a few tractor owners and they seem to be kept very busy contracting themselves out to the different small farm owners.farming in new zealand has moved toward larger farms which work on economy of scale. this has not happened so much in thailand and it seems farmers are struggling because of it.