Declare marital status when buying condominium?

[hyperdimension]

If a married farang wishes to buy a condominium only with his name in the title, must the wife sign a form that authorizes such a transaction?

[trogers]

Not authorized, but acknowledged...

[hyperdimension]

I've been reading "How to Safely Buy Real Estate in Thailand" and the author actually uses the word "authorizing":

If you’d rather not share the ownership of the condominium with your spouse, then you must require your spouse to sign a form authorizing you to purchase the condominium solely in your name.

Some husbands may prefer that the wife is not at all involved in the husband's business / investing / money matters, but would it be illegal in the case of condominium purchases?

[blackcab]

It depends where the money for purchasing the unit comes from.

 

If the money is jointly owned by husband and wife, you can see why consent would be needed.

 

If the money is solely the husband's, from funds held from before marriage and subsequently kept separate, the wife would have no claim over the property in any case.

 

The problem the land office faces is they don't know which category the purchase falls under. In which case they will often choose the safe option (for them) and require an acknowledgement form to be signed by the wife.

[hyperdimension]

Foreign Exchange Transaction forms should already verify that the funds originated from foreign currency, and the land office checks that the buyer's name is either in the destination or origin bank account of the funds transfer.

Here's another excerpt from the aforementioned book:

if you are married, you need to declare your status to the developer, or to your lawyer, or to the government official at the time of the purchase. Forgetting to provide this information prior to the registration of the transaction at the Land Department in order to avoid the formalities mentioned above is a bad idea, because failure to disclose information is deemed a false statement to a government official, which is a criminal offence.

Does this mean that the wife needs to be dragged into the land office whenever the husband wishes to spend his own money on a condominium in which she will not even stay in?

Would it also mean that every seller of a condominium would come to know the buyer's marital status (which should be private information)?

[blackcab]

As I said, it depends on each individual land office. It's a good book, but it should come with the disclaimer that land offices can and do differ in their requirements.

 

You need to ask the land office in question.

 

Incidentally, whenever my Thai wife buys property I have to attend the land office, give them a copy of my passport, yellow house book and marriage certificate and sign the form saying the property is solely hers. She can't tell the land office she is single because her marital status is a matter of government record, of which the land office have access to. So it works both ways.

[hyperdimension]

OK thank you for sharing your own experience.

So assumedly this requirement for the spouse to be involved in a real estate transaction is to prevent future dispute in case of divorce and subsequent splitting of assets. Could presentation of a prenuptiual agreement suffice instead?

Also, would it be impossible for a buyer to avoid revealing his or her marital status to the seller?

[SchadeBoy]

16 hours ago, hyperdimension said:

I've been reading "How to Safely Buy Real Estate in Thailand" and the author actually uses the word "authorizing":
 

 

Some husbands may prefer that the wife is not at all involved in the husband's business / investing / money matters, but would it be illegal in the case of condominium purchases?
 

 

 

Technically speaking the author is correct simply because the couple are married in community of property and assume liabilites as well unless there is some legal agreement in place before the couple are married, therefore if the condo is purchased after the marriage and it is only in 1 parties name, the other party is entitled to 50% of the asset in the case of divorce anyway

 

Your business example is something completely different and not relevant to this question as a business in itself is a legal entity in its own right 

 

Is it illegal to try and hide an asset away from ones spouse ? No...but in case of an asset like a condo, one suspects it would be quite hard to hide the purchase from ones spouse

[SchadeBoy]

53 minutes ago, blackcab said:

As I said, it depends on each individual land office. It's a good book, but it should come with the disclaimer that land offices can and do differ in their requirements.

 

You need to ask the land office in question.

 

Incidentally, whenever my Thai wife buys property I have to attend the land office, give them a copy of my passport, yellow house book and marriage certificate and sign the form saying the property is solely hers. She can't tell the land office she is single because her marital status is a matter of government record, of which the land office have access to. So it works both ways.

And you have to do this because you are married under community of property, and the property letter only applies to the land 

[hyperdimension]

Technically speaking the author is correct simply because the couple are married in community of property and assume liabilites as well unless there is some legal agreement in place before the couple are married, therefore if the condo is purchased after the marriage and it is only in 1 parties name, the other party is entitled to 50% of the asset in the case of divorce anyway

But if there is a prenuptial agreement, would the wife still be required to come along to the land office every time the husband buys real estate? On each occasion, the wife would be stating the same thing as she already had stated in the prenuptial agreement (that whatever asset is in one spouse's name only will remain his or hers in the event of divorce). So it would be hours of wasted time for the wife for something that would be none of her business. This is why I have asked above whether presentation of a prenuptial agreement to the land department would suffice so that the wife need not attend.

Is it illegal to try and hide an asset away from ones spouse ? No...but in case of an asset like a condo, one suspects it would be quite hard to hide the purchase from ones spouse

The author states though that "failure to disclose information is deemed a false statement to a government official, which is a criminal offence".

[SchadeBoy]

7 minutes ago, hyperdimension said:

But if there is a prenuptial agreement, would the wife still be required to come along to the land office every time the husband buys real estate? On each occasion, the wife would be stating the same thing as she already had stated in the prenuptial agreement (that whatever asset is in one spouse's name only will remain his or hers in the event of divorce). So it would be hours of wasted time for the wife for something that would be none of her business. This is why I have asked above whether presentation of a prenuptial agreement to the land department would suffice so that the wife need not attend.
 

The author states though that "failure to disclose information is deemed a false statement to a government official, which is a criminal offence".

Failure to disclose..ie on a form it asks martial status and you put single and your married this is false information and could be a criminal offence, but if your not asked you dont need to disclose, that is not a criminal offense....its the terminology which is wonky in the piece 

 

A prenup is only good for what you already own before you get married, it would get problematic if you bought the condo after you were married...and if you owned the property before marriage it would be in a single name wouldnt it ? 

[hyperdimension]

A prenup is only good for what you already own before you get married

It can also protect assets acquired during marriage. e.g. see Prenuptial Agreements: Who Needs It and How Do I Make One?

[SchadeBoy]

18 hours ago, hyperdimension said:

It can also protect assets acquired during marriage. e.g. see Prenuptial Agreements: Who Needs It and How Do I Make One?

This is under US law, which may or may not be valid in the rest of the world dependent on where you live 

[dotpoom]

This is a new one on me....have bought a number of condos and 3 houses and never was I asked if I was married or single. If I want to buy another condo, I bring the money in from outside the country and buy it same as always. "She who must be obeyed".   need have any idea about what I do......unless I choose to tell her..... I can understand if I was trying to simplify the procedure through my bank concerning the FET (if you know what I mean)....the manager might want to speak with she....if I told him/her that I had a wife, because a spouse could be affected when the money is spent and the manager might want tobcover themselves.

some of that money

[dotpoom]

Sorry about the attachment, couldn't undo it....then I thought "leave it"... It might brighten up somebody's day.

[hyperdimension]

Here's some information specific to Thailand: Prenuptial Agreement in Thailand. "Sin Somros" consists of Property acquired during marriage.

So wouldn't a prenuptial agreement that specifies separate ownership of assets eradicate the need for a spouse to attend all future condominium purchases during the marriage?

[markeewan]

3 hours ago, dotpoom said:

Sorry about the attachment, couldn't undo it....then I thought "leave it"... It might brighten up somebody's day.

 Glad you left it attached. I have heard it before , but it is so funny to hear it again. Brightened my day ..thanks

[elgordo38]

On 12/16/2016 at 10:47 AM, blackcab said:

As I said, it depends on each individual land office. It's a good book, but it should come with the disclaimer that land offices can and do differ in their requirements.

 

You need to ask the land office in question.

 

Incidentally, whenever my Thai wife buys property I have to attend the land office, give them a copy of my passport, yellow house book and marriage certificate and sign the form saying the property is solely hers. She can't tell the land office she is single because her marital status is a matter of government record, of which the land office have access to. So it works both ways.

I knew there was an advantage to stay single but of course 3 previous marriages can be prime motivators. My g/f just bought a piece of land her second and I had to sign nothing. 

[amjamj]

No problem to put only in your name if you are married...