Aboriginal woman's slaying exposes Australia's racial divide

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

15 hours ago, giddyup said:

Sorry, but you can't keep pointing the finger at the white man for all the problems aborigines suffer. Unfortunately the hundreds of millions of dollars that have been thrown at the problem has accomplished very little. Aborigines reap millions to allow mining rights on their lands, where does all that money go? The western way of life and work ethic is totally alien to aborigine culture and maybe they will never adapt, a sad fact. I worked on aboriginal missions for a few years and saw that most just aren't interested in improving or bettering themselves. Even though the "stolen children" generation has been condemned, it may have been the only answer to getting aborigines to become part of mainstream Australia. As it is now they are just caught up in a hopeless spiral.

 

An Anangu elder once told me that three types of people worked on Aboriginal 'missions'; Mercenaries, Missionaries or Misfits.

 

Which one were you?

 

Why do you expect Aboriginal people to adapt to 'western' culture? It is not their culture. They were perfectly happy with their own culture until the genocide of the invaders. If they do not value money in the same way that you clearly value money, then it is not surprising that 'throwing money at the problem' is not effective in forcing their assimilation.

 

Kidnapping the children of Aboriginal people and giving them to white couples to raise did not end until 1970. To promote this as an assimilationist tool is contrary to any definition of human rights. Have you ever interacted with a victim of this practice?

 

Why is it important for you that Aboriginal people become white? Why don't you assimilate into their culture? Or is that contrary to right wing ideology?

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

3 hours ago, giddyup said:

Do you have any idea how much money has been thrown at the aboriginal problem over the last 50 years? How many white people devote their lives to helping with aboriginal health, education, employment etc? We aren't living in the past and we aren't responsible for the sins of our fathers, and aboriginals are going to have to make some effort to stand on their own feet and not rely on government handouts, or "sit down money" as they like to call it.  Too easy to blame the white man for your own shortcomings, as American blacks like to do.

 

You certainly do bear responsibility for the sins of your ancestors, as do all Australians who perpetuate the oppression and occupation of Aboriginal lands and culture since the invasion of 1788. Only when that issue has been resolved to the satisfaction of both sides will that burden of guilt and culpability be removed.

[giddyup]

2 minutes ago, Tawan Dok Krating Daeng said:

 

An Anangu elder once told me that three types of people worked on Aboriginal 'missions'; Mercenaries, Missionaries or Misfits.

 

Which one were you?

 

Why do you expect Aboriginal people to adapt to 'western' culture? It is not their culture. They were perfectly happy with their own culture until the genocide of the invaders. If they do not value money in the same way that you clearly value money, then it is not surprising that 'throwing money at the problem' is not effective in forcing their assimilation.

 

Kidnapping the children of Aboriginal people and giving them to white couples to raise did not end until 1970. To promote this as an assimilationist tool is contrary to any definition of human rights. Have you ever interacted with a victim of this practice?

 

Why is it important for you that Aboriginal people become white? Why don't you assimilate into their culture? Or is that contrary to right wing ideology?

That's your solution. To assimilate into aboriginal culture? You mean going back to the stone age. Grow up.

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

That's your solution. To assimilate into aboriginal culture? You mean going back to the stone age. Grow up.

 

I have no need to be told to grow up by a bigot.

 

I did not offer assimilation into Aboriginal culture as a solution. I merely suggested it as an option for you.

 

Why is it that you vehemently reject that option and yet assume that the assimilation of Aboriginal people into white culture is desirable?

[giddyup]

4 minutes ago, Tawan Dok Krating Daeng said:

 

I have no need to be told to grow up by a bigot.

 

I did not offer assimilation into Aboriginal culture as a solution. I merely suggested it as an option for you.

 

Why is it that you vehemently reject that option and yet assume that the assimilation of Aboriginal people into white culture is desirable?

Because it just ain't going to happen. Why introduce an impossible scenario? Unfortunately for the aborigines it's either sink or swim. Join the 21st century or face annihilation. That's the reality, like it or not.

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

3 hours ago, giddyup said:

Do you have any idea how much money has been thrown at the aboriginal problem over the last 50 years? How many white people devote their lives to helping with aboriginal health, education, employment etc? We aren't living in the past and we aren't responsible for the sins of our fathers, and aboriginals are going to have to make some effort to stand on their own feet and not rely on government handouts, or "sit down money" as they like to call it.  Too easy to blame the white man for your own shortcomings, as American blacks like to do.

 

You define an entire race and set of cultures as a 'problem'.

 

Problems require solutions. What is your Final Solution? Or is it impolite to raise this?

 

And it there is any doubt about the overt racism here, your last line dispels that.

 

Digusting.

[giddyup]

3 minutes ago, Tawan Dok Krating Daeng said:

 

You define an entire race and set of cultures as a 'problem'.

 

Problems require solutions. What is your Final Solution? Or is it impolite to raise this?

 

And it there is any doubt about the overt racism here, your last line dispels that.

 

Digusting.

You have no idea of the facts, probably never been to Australia or had any contact with aborigines, so not worth discussing a subject you know nothing about.

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

Just now, giddyup said:

Because it just ain't going to happen. Why introduce an impossible scenario? Unfortunately for the aborigines it's either sink or swim. Join the 21st century or face annihilation. That's the reality, like it or not.

 

Significant areas of Australia have been returned to Aboriginal homelands where non Aboriginal people are forbidden to go without permission. The people who live in Aboriginal homelands are not compelled to live in any 'century' of a white man's choosing.

 

You contemptuously call on Aboriginal people to 'sink or swim'. Assimilate into the dominant culture or be eradicated. Which culture would that be? The boozy Ocker 'I'm alright Jack' culture? Or the Urban sophisticated consumer 2 BMW's culture? Or the fusion Asian culture that you probably haven't noticed creeping up on the 'real Australians'? Want Aboriginal people to be eating noodles in food courts?

 

Just what is it about white Australian culture that is superior to Aboriginal culture? You are aware that they have one right. Coherent social organization. Spirituality. Defined sense of justice etc. etc.

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

2 minutes ago, giddyup said:

You have no idea of the facts, probably never been to Australia or had any contact with aborigines, so not worth discussing a subject you know nothing about.

 

Not worth discussing or you are unable to address and counter the issues that I raised.

 

What a cheap cop out.

 

The mere fact that you might be Australian and claimed to have worked on an Aboriginal mission (that word is quite offensive to anyone who has worked with Aboriginal people and immediately indicates what type of 'work' you did) does not automatically grant you superiority over anyone else. I have not seen you demonstrate contextual awareness in your previous posts. I have no need to post bona fides. My arguments speak for themselves.

[F4UCorsair]

6 minutes ago, Tawan Dok Krating Daeng said:

 

Significant areas of Australia have been returned to Aboriginal homelands where non Aboriginal people are forbidden to go without permission. The people who live in Aboriginal homelands are not compelled to live in any 'century' of a white man's choosing.

 

You contemptuously call on Aboriginal people to 'sink or swim'. Assimilate into the dominant culture or be eradicated. Which culture would that be? The boozy Ocker 'I'm alright Jack' culture? Or the Urban sophisticated consumer 2 BMW's culture? Or the fusion Asian culture that you probably haven't noticed creeping up on the 'real Australians'? Want Aboriginal people to be eating noodles in food courts?

 

Just what is it about white Australian culture that is superior to Aboriginal culture? You are aware that they have one right. Coherent social organization. Spirituality. Defined sense of justice etc. etc.

Spirituality??  Would that be Methylated Spirituality?

 

I know, I know, the terrible 'conquerors' Introduced alcohol to the aboruIginals.  The white guys are at fault again.

 

Unable to edit typos and capital'I' (eye).

 

 

[F4UCorsair]

6 minutes ago, Tawan Dok Krating Daeng said:

 

Not worth discussing or you avne unable to address and counter the issues th at I raised.

 

What a cheap cop out.

 

The mere fact that you might be Australian and claimed to have worked on an Aboriginal mission (that word is quite offensive to anyone who has worked with Aboriginal people and immediately indicates what type of 'work' you did) does not automatically grant you superiority over anyone else. I have not seen you demonstrate contextual awareness in your previous posts. I have no need to post bona fides. My arguments speak for themselves.

 

You speak lile a reformed smoker or a born again christian.....we're wrong In everything, they're right In everything, advanced culture, etc.  Nothing they did was sustainable, no agriculture, built nothing permanent, and only the most rudimentary structures,  they raped and burnt their Immediate environment, then moved on to do the same again.

[giddyup]

3 minutes ago, Tawan Dok Krating Daeng said:

 

In a previous reply to one of your posts that you clearly thought was informed by your superior knowledge, I related a conversation that I had with an Anangu elder.

 

Are you aware of the Anangu? The Anangu are the original people of central Australia. Have you been there? Or indeed to any homeland in South Australia or the Northern Territory? I have been to each numerous times and some in Western Australia also.

 

These people do not live in missions. There is no group of white people with any imperative to force assimilation into some alien culture. There are no religious zealots trying to convert the 'natives' into some alien set of fantasies.

 

It surprises me when bigots and racists complain about being called out. To me it is a simple thing. If you don't want to be call that, then don't say bigoted or racist things. It requires no great effort to engage some critical thinking about one's utterances to review whether they stereotype or generalize a group of people. What you call flaming is another cheap cop out for being called out on BS. Why not counter the issue since you claim your are better informed?

 

Advocating the forced assimilation or eradication of an entire culture is not just a matter of 'opinion' which can be debated in gentlemanly circles. It is an offensively aggressive posture that contravenes the human rights of an entire group of people. People with such regressive and inhuman beliefs will get their throats stuffed whenever they open their offensive mouths. The solution? Accept that there are other people different from you but with equal rights or keep your mouth shut.

I am neither a bigot or a racist, I just choose not to see the world through rose coloured glasses, instead of some utopian fantasy where we all join in group hugs. Bye.

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

17 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

 

You speak lile a reformed smoker or a born again christian.....we're wrong In everything, they're right In everything, advanced culture, etc.  Nothing they did was sustainable, no agriculture, built nothing permanent, and only the most rudimentary structures,  they raped and burnt their Immediate environment, then moved on to do the same again.

 

It has become axiomatic that while the Right is not per se racist, those with racist views find welcome in its embrace.

 

What is the context for such culturally imperialist rubbish? You have money and can buy anything that represents 'advanced' culture like remote controlled helicopters, expensive tread mills and trophy wives? Have you personally contributed to the advancement of the culture that you have appropriated? The culture of Aristotle, Michelangelo, Isaac Newton and others? Or have you just taken from it? I like Western culture. I have tried to contribute to it through my education, my work and my social interactions. I appreciate and support the fundamental liberalism of western culture and seek to promote its advancement.

 

But how does an appreciation of one's own culture grant entitlement to demean and diminish the culture of others?

 

"Nothing they did was sustainable" Nothing except their culture that was sustained for 40,000 or 50,000 years. "No agriculture" Aboriginal culture at the time of the invasion was hunter-gatherer. Perhaps we would have had to wait another 50,000 years for them to develop agriculture (as you define it). We will never know. What we do know is that their culture and way of life was successful for them and their environment. "Rudimentary Structures" Do you have any concept of Aboriginal spirituality? It is an ancient and complex mysticism that has existed for centuries. Well beyond any physical structures built by non Aboriginal societies. "Raped and burnt [sic]" Aboriginal people were so in tune with their environment that they knew much of native Australian flora required fire to reproduce.

 

What else you got?

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

13 minutes ago, giddyup said:

I am neither a bigot or a racist, I just choose not to see the world through rose coloured glasses, instead of some utopian fantasy where we all join in group hugs. Bye.

 

Acknowledging and accepting the existence of Aboriginal culture and the need for Australia to accommodate Aboriginal people into a diverse and respectful society is not advocating a group hug. It is existentialism. It is honorable. It is the right thing to do.

 

Flounce away if it avoids having to address real issues.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Tawan Dok Krating Daeng

[SaintLouisBlues]

33 minutes ago, Tawan Dok Krating Daeng said:

Advocating the forced assimilation or eradication of an entire culture is not just a matter of 'opinion' which can be debated in gentlemanly circles.

Quite so. If they want to live their own way of life on the margins that's their choice. As one of my more racist friends remarks, "All the more for us"

[bkkgooner]

23 hours ago, giddyup said:

Nothing compared to what they do to each other. Rampant child molestation, spousal abuse, alcoholism, drug abuse etc.

 

What do you think causes this behaviour to happen in the first place? 

 

Because their community is ridden with drug and alcohol abuse, it is OK to treat them like animals?

 

Interesting point of view, can't say I agree with it. 

 

 

 

[tezzainthailand]

On 12/16/2016 at 3:42 PM, giddyup said:

Nothing compared to what they do to each other. Rampant child molestation, spousal abuse, alcoholism, drug abuse etc.

That behaviour is widespread across Australia, black, white, whatever, not limited to Aboriginal men only.  Domestic terrorism/violence as it's known now is a huge social problem in Australia. Was Rosey Battey's son beaten to death (by a cricket bat) perpetrated by an Aboriginal man? Stick to the issue, and that is Aboriginal citizens still getting a raw deal, especially in backward states like Western Australia.

[SaintLouisBlues]

8 minutes ago, tezzainthailand said:

That behaviour is widespread across Australia, black, white, whatever, not limited to Aboriginal men only.  Domestic terrorism/violence as it's known now is a huge social problem in Australia. Was Rosey Battey's son beaten to death (by a cricket bat) perpetrated by an Aboriginal man? Stick to the issue, and that is Aboriginal citizens still getting a raw deal, especially in backward states like Western Australia.

Are you able to supply a map showing the demographic distribution of domestic violence in Australia?

[tezzainthailand]

17 hours ago, giddyup said:

Sorry, but you can't keep pointing the finger at the white man for all the problems aborigines suffer. Unfortunately the hundreds of millions of dollars that have been thrown at the problem has accomplished very little. Aborigines reap millions to allow mining rights on their lands, where does all that money go? The western way of life and work ethic is totally alien to aborigine culture and maybe they will never adapt, a sad fact. I worked on aboriginal missions for a few years and saw that most just aren't interested in improving or bettering themselves. Even though the "stolen children" generation has been condemned, it may have been the only answer to getting aborigines to become part of mainstream Australia. As it is now they are just caught up in a hopeless spiral.

And did the Aboriginal people have any say in how the mission was run?  Go back to 'Corranderk' in the 19th century and see how Aboriginal people were successful at running a community until the white Authorities intervened and separated full blood aboriginals from half caste aboriginals and ruined a good thing.  Aboriginal people are quite capable as any white person given a chance after all they managed the land for tens of thousands years  without too many problems. As for the 'stolen generation' being the only answer, you have to be kidding.  One of the most shameful episodes in Australian history.  As a youngster you wouldn't have had a problem being separated from your mum?

[tezzainthailand]

5 minutes ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

Are you able to supply a map showing the demographic distribution of domestic violence in Australia?

No, are you?, but the figures of domestic violence are out there, easy to find.

[tezzainthailand]

Lot of old white men here know what's best for Australian Aboriginals.

[SaintLouisBlues]

9 minutes ago, tezzainthailand said:

No, are you?, but the figures of domestic violence are out there, easy to find.

"Easy to find" are they? I tried to find the figures for Malcolm Turnbull's electorate but could not. Mark Latham asserts, as I'm sure you know, that domestic violence is largely a lower middle class and working class phenomenon, so I would expect to see a map of the distribution of reported domestic violence to support this assertion

[Lokie]

7 hours ago, starky said:

Wrong story mate

Apologies, my bad you are quite correct

 

But overall maybe does have a bearing in this discussion, is it not underlying racism against the aboriginal people in Oz, would the police have acted and treated the lady I referenced the same if she was white? just asking like...

 

https://www.globalcitizen.org/content/footage-of-aboriginal-woman-dying-in-police-custod/

[F4UCorsair]

24 minutes ago, tezzainthailand said:

That behinviour is widespread across Aisstralia, black, white, whatever, not limited to Aboriginait men only.  Domestic terrorism/violence as it's known now is a huge social problem in Australia. Was Rosey Battey's son beaten to death (by a cricket bat) perpetrated by an Aboriginal man? Stick to the issue, and that is Aboriginal citizens still getting a raw deal, especially in backward states like Western Australia.

Batty's husband was mentally Ill, something she has conveniently forgotten as the agenda has been hijacked by the leftist women's miovement.

 

Check this link.  Sorry can't padste the link, nut google 'bettina arndt domestic violence In Australia'.

 

She's reviewed 1700 papers on the subject, and a few mistruths are exposed 

 

I saw her recently on TV, very I Impressive.  She's a psychologist and one of the original women's rights campaigners, but has seen the hypocrisy of the women's movement, e.g., It Is silent on the abuse of muslim women, not a whimper about the oppressive burqa, but advocate things like a man saying his wife Is fat, or criticizing the housework, as being domestic violence.

 

Unable to edit typos and capital 'I' (eye).

 

 

[14Stevie]

The headline "Aboriginal woman's slaying exposes Australia's racial divide" has done just that in this thread. - as well as other parts of the world

As a Brit the information and dialogue on the Aboriginal history is interesting. Only the most hardened of human being would deny that they have been subject to some second class treatment.

But the blame game as to the current plight of the Aborigines - their own fault through countless addictions and laziness, wasted funds on them etc. even going as far back as the Europeans and colonisation (eh??) - the last point of which has no basis of actual proof and smacks of merely conjecture - are all distinct from the fact that that poor young girl was sexually abused in such a way that "A forensic pathologist dubbed her injuries more severe than those which occur in even precipitous childbirth."

So please forget the history and remember the facts in this case that two white fellas abused this Aboriginal girl in such a way that she died.

Please forget race, forget culture, forget blame and remember that a family has been torn apart and that the children will grow to learn the horrific injuries their mam died from.

I'm no soft liberalist, left winger or member of any sob brigade.

I'm a very proud Dad and Grandad who is horrified that a family can be subject to such cruelty without the same form of justice others demand, expect and in most cases are given.

 

[giddyup]

1 hour ago, tezzainthailand said:

Lot of old white men here know what's best for Australian Aboriginals.

Do you?

[giddyup]

1 hour ago, tezzainthailand said:

And did the Aboriginal people have any say in how the mission was run?  Go back to 'Corranderk' in the 19th century and see how Aboriginal people were successful at running a community until the white Authorities intervened and separated full blood aboriginals from half caste aboriginals and ruined a good thing.  Aboriginal people are quite capable as any white person given a chance after all they managed the land for tens of thousands years  without too many problems. As for the 'stolen generation' being the only answer, you have to be kidding.  One of the most shameful episodes in Australian history.  As a youngster you wouldn't have had a problem being separated from your mum?

 As a youngster you wouldn't have had a problem being separated from your mum?

 

Would have been in my best interest if she was an alcoholic, child neglecter.

 

 

[simple1]

1 hour ago, giddyup said:

 As a youngster you wouldn't have had a problem being separated from your mum?

 

Would have been in my best interest if she was an alcoholic, child neglecter.

 

 

 

Not if you ended up in institutions or with foster careers where sexual abuse and violence was practiced, as has been well documented. In any case a number of posts are well off topic and with regards to the OP essentially blame the victim.

Edited December 17, 2016 by simple1

[Loeilad]

interesting to read the posts by racists trying to mitigate this crime - "RANT"? - I ask you!

[metisdead]

inflammatory posts as well as offensive posts and the replies have been removed.