Working in Thailand - Define Work...

[Peterw42]

8 minutes ago, Savilesghost said:

You can own a business and not need a WP

 

you can own and work in your own business and need a WP and one can aquire

WP if one forms a THB 2.0 million capitalised company and employs 4 Thai nationals, dependent on where you apply and if your married to a Thai national the requirements are halved (1million cap + 2 thai nationals ) 

 

Ergo one can " freelance " and be self employed and get a WP in Thailand,

 

i have yet to meet a so called "freelancer" or "self employed" anywhere who is not employed by their own Ltd company or similar entity, as to offset personal tax liabilites, one can do exactly the same in Thailand

 

Where does a self employed person get a WP from ? without a job or an employer. 

[Savilesghost]

26 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

 

Where does a self employed person get a WP from ? without a job or an employer. 

 

Read the post...self employed forms a Ltd company or similar legal entity (as just about every self employed person does) and employed 4 Thais, and said self employed is employed by their own company and thus gets the WP

 

Said self employed works for other companies/clients via their own Ltd company or similar entity and invoices company to company, which provides personal tax " benefits "

 

Its a standard and common practice in the UK and many other countries, all this

freelancer/ self employed in some respects is misleading as most are employed by an entity they own and are "managing director" of to reduce personal income tax

 

I know someone in Thailand who does exactly this, he is married to a Thai national so the requirements for him setting up were Thb 1.0 million capped Ltd company + 2 Thai employees ( his Mrs as office manger and a maid) and he "rents" himself out to mutiple companies as self employed or a freelancer 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Peterw42]

17 minutes ago, Savilesghost said:

 

Read the post...self employed forms a Ltd company or similar legal entity (as just about every self employed person does) and employed 4 Thais, and said self employed is employed by their own company and thus gets the WP

 

Said self employed works for other companies/clients via their own Ltd company or similar entity and invoices company to company, which provides personal tax " benefits "

 

Its a standard and common practice in the UK and many other countries, all this

freelancer/ self employed in some respects is misleading as most are employed by an entity they own and are "managing director" of to reduce personal income tax

 

I know someone in Thailand who does exactly this, he is married to a Thai national so the requirements for him setting up were Thb 1.0 million capped Ltd company + 2 Thai employees ( his Mrs as office manger and a maid) and he "rents" himself out to mutiple companies as self employed or a freelancer 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The guy is still only working for his own company, not freelancing. WPs are very specific as to where you work and who for and your role. A WP doesn't give you license to be a contractor to other businesses. You are even restricted working in the branch office of the same company. you cant do the job at another premises.

A guy owns a company that owns a coffee shop and the coffee shop gives him a WP as manager of coffee shop. the guy cannot be the manager of another coffee shop or work for them.

 

[Savilesghost]

2 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

The guy is still only working for his own company, not freelancing. WPs are very specific as to where you work and who for and your role. A WP doesn't give you license to be a contractor to other businesses. You are even restricted working in the branch office of the same company. you cant do the job at another premises.

Yes he is freelancing and yes you can get a work permit exactly as i have stated, it all boils down to the job description and the roles and responsiblites defined therein which is given to the DOL

 

Although not free-lancing or self employed myself, my own WP permit, because of the nature of my job allows me to work at multiple locations and companies nationwide, so your mistaken on your last sentence 

 

 

 

[Peterw42]

12 minutes ago, Savilesghost said:

Yes he is freelancing and yes you can get a work permit exactly as i have stated, it all boils down to the job description and the roles and responsiblites defined therein which is given to the DOL

 

Although not free-lancing or self employed myself, my own WP permit, because of the nature of my job allows me to work at multiple locations and companies nationwide, so your mistaken on your last sentence 

 

 

 

Your opinion seems contrary to all of the thai legal websites, the following is from siamlegal website

Restrictions On Your Thai Work Permit

When granted with a work permit, the individual must work only with the said company. If in case he is assigned to another location of the same company, he is required to obtain a new work permit covering such new location. The same is required if and when the individual would work with another company. This is due to the fact that the work permit is issued to the employee for the specific company at the specific location.

If in case he tendered his resignation or has been laid off by the company, he is tasked to surrender his work permit to the Labor Department not more than 10 days.

[Ace of Pop]

I suppose many readers are thinking who would want to deal with these dumbos their Businesses can't be much good,they just bicker about a simple permit



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[GOLDBUGGY]

1 hour ago, Savilesghost said:

You need a work permit in certain cases even when there is no compensation...this is why your confused and let me show you why 

 

Farang X owns a business in Thailand in which he plays no direct role in running the business, but hold "majority" shares.... doesnt require a WP ? Correct

 

Farang X gets paid a dividend from said company, ie "compensation " still doesnt need a WP correct ? 

 

Farang X decides to take an active role in running said business but will draw no salary or other considerations with the exception of taking the dividend in said company..Farang X now needs a WP 

 

 

 

 The only thing confusing to me is why you keep saying I am confused about something? There is nothing in your post I haven't said already. 

 

Of course you A & B Examples don't need a WP. They are not providing any work so why would they need one? This goes along the lines of someone renting out a Condo and having his wife collect the rent money.

 

Example C is a bit iffy. He is preforming a service and working. You say he is not being compensated for his work other then drawing a Divided from the company. Is a Dividend not a form of compensation? Does not the profit of this company depend on the amount of this Dividend Payment? That by cutting one or two staff members by cleaning these tables himself, and cooking, not make this company more profitable and now not having to pay these wages, which can be returned in the form of a Dividend?.

 

Him working and being, or not being, compensated for this is a debatable issue. But what isn't up for debate is by him cleaning off tables he is doing a job a Thai could do. If you don't believe that the WP Systems was designed to protect the Thai Worker then please tell me why they have such a thing in the first place.   

[muzmurray]

19 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

 The only thing confusing to me is why you keep saying I am confused about something? There is nothing in your post I haven't said already. 

 

Of course you A & B Examples don't need a WP. They are not providing any work so why would they need one? This goes along the lines of someone renting out a Condo and having his wife collect the rent money.

 

Example C is a bit iffy. He is preforming a service and working. You say he is not being compensated for his work other then drawing a Divided from the company. Is a Dividend not a form of compensation? Does not the profit of this company depend on the amount of this Dividend Payment? That by cutting one or two staff members by cleaning these tables himself, and cooking, not make this company more profitable and now not having to pay these wages, which can be returned in the form of a Dividend?.

 

Him working and being, or not being, compensated for this is a debatable issue. But what isn't up for debate is by him cleaning off tables he is doing a job a Thai could do. If you don't believe that the WP Systems was designed to protect the Thai Worker then please tell me why they have such a thing in the first place.   

 

Actually, if the foreigner owned the condo, regardless of who collects the rent, they should have a WP, ridiculous as that might sound.

[Peterw42]

1 minute ago, muzmurray said:

 

Actually, if the foreigner owned the condo, regardless of who collects the rent, they should have a WP, ridiculous as that might sound.

 

There have been many threads about this and a WP is not required to rent out a condo.

 

 

[IMA_FARANG]

The official definition is not based on who your clients are or where you bank your money, but is based on simply where you exert thee effort.

If you have an online business and you exert the effort on a conputer that is in Thailand, then you are "working" in Thailand.

That is all that maters, although it may not be enforced strictly simply because that is so hard to prove in practice as it requires many people and much effot to track it down.

Enforcing such a standard of "working" on-line in country is in reality almost impossible, which is why so many people can get away with it.

 

[muzmurray]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

 

There have been many threads about this and a WP is not required to rent out a condo.

 

 

 

"at least in Phuket" ;-)

[William C F Pierce]

On 22/12/2016 at 1:42 PM, GOLDBUGGY said:

If you are being paid for this then technically it would be considered work. But the chances of getting caught seems pretty slim at best. 

Technically every action you do are definable as work under the law.  Be it driving a car, carrying shopping or wiping ones own backside at a toilet. These are all jobs you may be denying a job from a Thai that they can do. Only one law in Thailand that covers everything the law of stupidity.

[muzmurray]

24 minutes ago, William C F Pierce said:

Technically every action you do are definable as work under the law.  Be it driving a car, carrying shopping or wiping ones own backside at a toilet. These are all jobs you may be denying a job from a Thai that they can do. Only one law in Thailand that covers everything the law of stupidity.

 

There is nothing in the list of prohibited jobs that stipulates they are there because of "taking jobs from Thais", just another urban myth. Many of the jobs that foreigners could be done by Thais, but the foreigners have "expert" experience and are therefore allowed to do them.