God

[meemiathai]

It's not a matter of if it is good or bad.

It's a matter of if it is real or fake.

How can people believe in such fairy tales even after they have recieved a certain degree of education? Why bother to study science? Sit there all day and pray and wait for the day to go to heaven.

Religion = Mafia -- Listen to what we tell you to do and you will be protected.

Having said that, I don't really mind if they just mind their own business. But more often than not, they do bother with other people's freedom unrealistically.

11 years in a catholic school have let me see enough hypocrisy.

[Robski]

Corky must be out watching Jeeves wax one of his beloved chariots, but in fairness to him I believe his OP was only quoting someone else's statement, and then making the profound observation of, "Wow."

So serene as always jing jing

Edited December 8, 2006 by Robski

[Cpt_M0ney_Sh0t]

It ain't religion that's so bad.

I might even have become religious if it weren't for the manner in which religion is often preached.

the goodness that can come fof religion I admire and respect immensly. But it has been so used as a tool to influence the masses that it has irreversibly corrupted itself in it's present form, be it Christianity, Buddhism, Muslim, Sikh, etc....

It is therefore not religion that is bad, or an opiate to the masses.

It is the (majority of) preachers and the masses themselves who are the guilty parties. The former fro using a power of goodness for selfish, egotistical and irrational goals, and the latter for not being smarter than that and being gullible and had.

One example: The Renaissance came about after the printing press was invented. This is when people started to learn how to read, and started to read the bible, and come up with their own views on the readings. Started disagreeing with the church. This is when Lutherans and Calvinists came into being. The protestants.

This is when the anglican church came into being.

This is also when people in Europe started to see that there were other ways.

This is when forms of Agnosticism and Atheism came into a larger scale being.

And this is also when so many of the modern day inventions came into being, including many aspects of the sciences.

People started exploring and discovering more. They were no longer tied down by the guilt and oppression of the churches.

So what has happened?

Do you mean 'so what has happened?' as in after 250+ years of progressive enlightenment we are plunging back into a religious dark age, making it look like all that has been achieved in human emancipation, will just become a blip on the radar of human existence? oh that 'so what has happened?' I think you know the answer, but it's a thought provoking question, so...

Two Religions that serve the same role, to control the people and consolodate power. Three of course, but let's not go there.

In the richer societies people are turning to religion because the world is moving too fast and they are willing to hand over thinking to those that advocate Christianity, for the sake of an easy answer.

In poorer or unjust societies the advocates of Islam are using religion as a rallying point for the disaffected, with financial aid people feel that Islam is the only 'group' that cares for them.

They have to play one off the other, without evil there cannot be good, when people live in fear they can be controlled. A nightmare of Orwellian proportions.

Of course there are a lot of people that are rational and enlightened in this world, but they don't control the media or govenment or religion, and therefore are not 'with the program'.

It's spiritual warfare, and it is being lost by the good guys.

Well friend I hate to break it to you but Both Islam and Christianity cater equally to the type of people you mentioned in either example. Take a so called poor and unjust society say like Columbia (or just about any South American country) were the Roman Catholic church has held major sway for centuries and people live and die by their saints.

Or lets take a Rich society, like Kuwait, were things really are moving WAY too fast for a people whom (before oil) were living a very simple nomadic lifestyle. They are Quite wealthy and yet they hand over governance to people who advocate Islam rather than to think for themselves.

I'm no big proponent for Islam, but you imply in your post here that it is some how something for poor or unjust countries only. From what I have seen Islam, or it's followers are no better or worse than any of the "Abrahamic" religions or it's devotees. Certainly more similarities than differences thats for sure.

[kayo]

fair point there moneyshot.

I think Robski's points can be consolidated with yours though. A bit of rich and poor on both sides.

Regardless though, the aspects robski raises and you raise are very much the case, seemingly.

As for the good guys losing, .. wait, hang on.. I'm gonna have some supper and get back to this one a bit clearer.

[Cpt_M0ney_Sh0t]

Yeah Kayo, I think your right. If I look at it a lil closer our points don't necessarily collide. I just was thrown for a loop with the good guys loosing remark. It seemed to imply the Christians were the good guys. If I translated that wrong, Robski let me know. But I think the "Good guys" come in all faiths on this issue. You got the good Christians who don't buy into the war mongering crusader politics of my red neck bigot president and scum like Bill Orieley. These people pray for peace and try to promote understanding and tolerance like their Christ would have. Then you got the Good Muslims like Iraqis who risk their lives for $800 month to be a police officer in Baghdad because they want to save their country from thugs masquerading as Mujdadeen (holy warriors). Or Men like the boy's father from this article who refused to let his son join in with the terrorists in Southern Thailand. I believe there are more Good Guys than bad, but the media can't sell commercial slots at a premium with stories of the good guys.

Over cynical, perhaps but I believe it's the truth. Man at his core really isn't as bad as we make ourselves out to be sometimes. Sure you have some bad guys but they are almost always out weighed by the good.

[alexth]

I believe in common sense, I belive in making a good thing on as many occasions as possible, goodness, appreciation, love for the one next to you, not in priests, fancy ceremonies and the whole mascarade...religion is just a tool for making people vulnerable, I personally think that it is the best method of mass manipulation, how many wars did religion brought and still is? How many massacres? How many peoples burned alive? How much money into the banks of Vatican? How much power does Vatican have? Did God gave them all this? I certainly think not...

[Maigo6]

How many massacres? How many peoples burned alive? How much money into the banks of Vatican? How much power does Vatican have? Did God gave them all this? I certainly think not...

Good points Alex..............................and lets face it, who the fawk would allow all the crap that goes on in this world to go on if he was God ?

If I was God, I'm sure I would do a better job than the present guy in office.

[alexth]

How many massacres? How many peoples burned alive? How much money into the banks of Vatican? How much power does Vatican have? Did God gave them all this? I certainly think not...

Good points Alex..............................and lets face it, who the fawk would allow all the crap that goes on in this world to go on if he was God ?

If I was God, I'm sure I would do a better job than the present guy in office.

Well, people like blaming God, I'd rather blame people pretending to believe in something else than money and power...

[Jamie]

I think there is nothing wrong with religion. It is people in general that muddy up something that is very good by misinterpreting things to suit their own human wants and needs.

I believe that in many or most religions, there is a belief in a higher power. Even religions that have a belief in multiple gods also have the belief in one that is supreme over all.

Just look at the Judaism, Islam and Christianity. They all believe in the same God, yet somehow over the ages they split and moved so far from the, shall we say "main topic" that they are now always at each others throats.

[alexth]

I think there is nothing wrong with religion. It is people in general that muddy up something that is very good by misinterpreting things to suit their own human wants and needs.

I believe that in many or most religions, there is a belief in a higher power. Even religions that have a belief in multiple gods also have the belief in one that is supreme over all.

Just look at the Judaism, Islam and Christianity. They all believe in the same God, yet somehow over the ages they split and moved so far from the, shall we say "main topic" that they are now always at each others throats.

And that's because people created it?

[Maigo6]

Do people really believe in a God, a supreme being?

Personally, I just cannot comprehend a being that is so much more advanced than Humans, who would create a species so capable of self destruction ( Humans), don't make sense to me.

I think Humans create a God to actually give their very existence on Earth a purpose.

We create Gods and a fantasy of afterlife to counteract the inevitable folly of our own deaths.

You are born........you live......you get old.........you die. That's it!

Same as all animals.

[alexth]

Do people really believe in a God, a supreme being?

Personally, I just cannot comprehend a being that is so much more advanced than Humans, who would create a species so capable of self destruction ( Humans), don't make sense to me.

I think Humans create a God to actually give their very existence on Earth a purpose.

We create Gods and a fantasy of afterlife to counteract the inevitable folly of our own deaths.

You are born........you live......you get old.........you die. That's it!

Same as all animals.

Well, it's always been said that humans only use 3% of their brains, I think the first one to use more than that was Einstein (I'm not sure). Now, if humans only use 3% of their brains, think what would a human do with a rate of 100%. What about another being? Maybe more? Maybe less? How much? Double, triple?

I, for one, do believe in a superior being, but not necessarily by going to church, listen to a priest or praying next to the next suicidal plane crasher...

Someone or something must have created this universe, not just that...our souls. The soul is something I do believe in...

[Maigo6]

Well, it's always been said that humans only use 3% of their brains

Who came up with that equation, an ape or a human ?

[alexth]

Well, it's always been said that humans only use 3% of their brains

Who came up with that equation, an ape or a human ?

I'm not really sure, it was in something I read a long time ago. Just found something here, it might be a myth, but...I'd think it's not

Edited December 8, 2006 by alexth

[Jamie]

Yes it is a myth...we use all of our brain capacity actually.

Did we invent religion? That is difficult to say. Some believe that religiosity was programmed in to our brains from the beginning.

The point I was really trying to make is that in a general sense, religion is not a bad thing. I see nothing wrong in hope for something better than the here and now. Nothing wrong with people following certain moral rules. Yes, there is bad with religion as we see on an every day basis, but I think that we have all seen the good man can do for his fellow man.

Personally, I believe in God because of my own experiences. I think it is something every individual has to make up their own mind on...either way.

[alexth]

Yes it is a myth...we use all of our brain capacity actually.

Did we invent religion? That is difficult to say. Some believe that religiosity was programmed in to our brains from the beginning.

The point I was really trying to make is that in a general sense, religion is not a bad thing. I see nothing wrong in hope for something better than the here and now. Nothing wrong with people following certain moral rules. Yes, there is bad with religion as we see on an every day basis, but I think that we have all seen the good man can do for his fellow man.

Personally, I believe in God because of my own experiences. I think it is something every individual has to make up their own mind on...either way.

It's manipulation, it's bad as those in search of manipulation are usually evil minded. Let's not forget that even the plane crashers think that THEIR religion "religion is not a bad thing". The 40 people who committed mass suicide with those sport shoes and blankets next to their bed thinking they'll go to the next stage of life and meet the extraterrestrials did also think that "religion is not a bad thing" and no matter what we'd say, it's a religion, their religion, the same as we have our religion...

I tell you what I think...I think that common sense, love , mercy, compassion are real things, more pure, you don't need a statue, a book, etc. OR a leader in order to have these...

Edited December 8, 2006 by alexth

[VanZam]

Religion was, and always has been, a way to control the masses.

Obviously the way to keep people under control is to make a list of rules and the promote the benefits of following those rules (heaven).

I don't think religion is bad, although people tend to focus too much on the end benefit rather than the common sense lessons they learn along the way through practice of standard dogma.

[davidjtayler]

Its moved ... !

I came here to get away and have a quiet pint and its followed me ....

Well if there is a god corky ... he'll make sure United win the Manchester derby today ... that's all I've got to say on the matter

Now go back to the Sheraton and leave me in peace ....

[Thaddeus]

Anyone in here ever read Job by Robert A. Heinlein?

That gives a rather interesting perspective on religion.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Be careful ... they are even trying to put religion into Christmas

[popshirt]

Every time I see a bulding with a cross on it in Thailand I wish the "missionaries" would just go home and leave us alone here!

[Fist]

I am a great believer in Dave Allen's saying.."May your God go with you"

There are way too many religions for any of us to say with confidence "I am right and you are wrong"

I was brought up under the Jesus Christ banner..........what a man.......holes in his feet and could still walk on water.

Just a pity he came from the biggest hel_l hole on earth....the middle east.

Murders commited everyday in the name of religion..........the mind boggles.

Religion on a whole is all about money and power........look at the first civilisations..........they were controlled by the fear of Idols(God)....one day they rebelled....smashed up the idols and what happened to them?........NOTHING............the powers to be had a rethink........invented a God in the Sky.........long way to throw a stone :0).........."yeah great Idea"........can't smash him up.........and us poor beggars have been stuck with him ever since...........Top and bottom of it is Religion or the idea of it is to teach us right from wrong........we get that right that's all that matters.

The whole thing/example for all us Christians started in Bethlehem......Nazareth.......THE HOLY LAND...Now they are flying into Palestine with their Apache Helicopters mowing people down in the street.........and with American support.....so we have the Worlds Cop and the occupiers of the Holy Land setting a fine example to the young of the day............and they say cocaine is harmful.........worlds ***** up and I am glad I am living in good old Thailand well away from the mad bastids.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The second coming is taking an unreasonable amount of time too.

[davidjtayler]

The second coming is taking an unreasonable amount of time too.

Viagara's to blame for that ....

[Robski]

It ain't religion that's so bad.

I might even have become religious if it weren't for the manner in which religion is often preached.

the goodness that can come fof religion I admire and respect immensly. But it has been so used as a tool to influence the masses that it has irreversibly corrupted itself in it's present form, be it Christianity, Buddhism, Muslim, Sikh, etc....

It is therefore not religion that is bad, or an opiate to the masses.

It is the (majority of) preachers and the masses themselves who are the guilty parties. The former fro using a power of goodness for selfish, egotistical and irrational goals, and the latter for not being smarter than that and being gullible and had.

One example: The Renaissance came about after the printing press was invented. This is when people started to learn how to read, and started to read the bible, and come up with their own views on the readings. Started disagreeing with the church. This is when Lutherans and Calvinists came into being. The protestants.

This is when the anglican church came into being.

This is also when people in Europe started to see that there were other ways.

This is when forms of Agnosticism and Atheism came into a larger scale being.

And this is also when so many of the modern day inventions came into being, including many aspects of the sciences.

People started exploring and discovering more. They were no longer tied down by the guilt and oppression of the churches.

So what has happened?

Do you mean 'so what has happened?' as in after 250+ years of progressive enlightenment we are plunging back into a religious dark age, making it look like all that has been achieved in human emancipation, will just become a blip on the radar of human existence? oh that 'so what has happened?' I think you know the answer, but it's a thought provoking question, so...

Two Religions that serve the same role, to control the people and consolodate power. Three of course, but let's not go there.

In the richer societies people are turning to religion because the world is moving too fast and they are willing to hand over thinking to those that advocate Christianity, for the sake of an easy answer.

In poorer or unjust societies the advocates of Islam are using religion as a rallying point for the disaffected, with financial aid people feel that Islam is the only 'group' that cares for them.

They have to play one off the other, without evil there cannot be good, when people live in fear they can be controlled. A nightmare of Orwellian proportions.

Of course there are a lot of people that are rational and enlightened in this world, but they don't control the media or govenment or religion, and therefore are not 'with the program'.

It's spiritual warfare, and it is being lost by the good guys.

Well friend I hate to break it to you but Both Islam and Christianity cater equally to the type of people you mentioned in either example. Take a so called poor and unjust society say like Columbia (or just about any South American country) were the Roman Catholic church has held major sway for centuries and people live and die by their saints.

Or lets take a Rich society, like Kuwait, were things really are moving WAY too fast for a people whom (before oil) were living a very simple nomadic lifestyle. They are Quite wealthy and yet they hand over governance to people who advocate Islam rather than to think for themselves.

I'm no big proponent for Islam, but you imply in your post here that it is some how something for poor or unjust countries only. From what I have seen Islam, or it's followers are no better or worse than any of the "Abrahamic" religions or it's devotees. Certainly more similarities than differences thats for sure.

fair point there moneyshot.

I think Robski's points can be consolidated with yours though. A bit of rich and poor on both sides.

Regardless though, the aspects robski raises and you raise are very much the case, seemingly.

As for the good guys losing, .. wait, hang on.. I'm gonna have some supper and get back to this one a bit clearer.

I just got in and I havent read through all the posts yet, but in response to Kayo and the Captain;

Yes I'm in agreement with you both. it's a subject that encompases so many factors. I wanted to keep my point clear and simple and the two groups I mentioned are I think the two biggest growth areas in religion today. and it is growing.

The good guys losing? ok probably a throwaway remark, but it seems that the bad guys have got the guns.

Edited December 9, 2006 by Robski

[AlexLah]

Hmmmmm.......

Why religions preach tolerance when they do not recognise/accept other religions god?

Oh, sorry should be in the "why" thread

[Totster]

Just a note..

If this becomes a thread about certain religions (you know what i mean).. then it will be closed.

thanks

totster

[davidjtayler]

Well if there is a god corky ... he'll make sure United win the Manchester derby today ... that's all I've got to say on the matter

Well that proves it ... there is ...

[GracelessFawn]

I wrote this in my blog last October..............................

Today, I went to church and listened to a great sermon! I was a bit excited when I woke-up this morning because I haven't been to church for years....... I don't consider myself as religious, and I don't practice religion. I do go to church every once in awhile.

I believe that my life is my religion - how I treat other people around me, how I battle life's storms without putting blame on somebody else, how I try to make the best out of life without holding a grude, how I make my choices and how I choose to live my life.

I've met a lot of religious people, and I respect their beliefs, but I have had first hand experiences with religious people looking down at others, thinking how better they are than others just because they go to a church, temple or mosque. It is very frustrating.

I know, we're all humans, bound to make mistakes, and sinners, but people make it as an excuse. I think, that people should accept responsibility for their actions, and be more accountable. It's sad that most religions blame the devil, and the sinner nature of men for their behavior. I think, that when you steal, lie, cheat, kill, and etc, you did it because you made that choice or because you simply wanted to do it.

Aside from life, I don't believe in any other religion. I believe that decency, common courtesy, the desire not to step on anyone's toes, working hard for your dreams, always believing that love do exists, making friends, and living life to the fullest is enough religion for me!

[bkkmadness]

Just a note..

If this becomes a thread about certain religions (you know what i mean).. then it will be closed.

thanks

totster

What religions aren't allowed to be discussed? I guess Buddhism is the only one isn't it?