Expat health and medical insurance Chiang Mai

[Victor Paul]

I have recently moved from Europe to Chiang Mai. I have had to cancel my European National health contributions because I am retired from my country and was advised that all I need when I return for holidays is a travel insurance. I am 67 and would like to be insured for accident and medical care in Thailand, If possible a yearly travel insurance too. Can anyone advise me?  

[Lizard2010]

Look at this forum area

 

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/forum/121-insurance-in-thailand/

 

There so many people who will advise here also

 

Also have you been to the Chiang Mai Expats Club

They have a breakfast on Friday Morning at the Rivermarket Restaurant

 

[scottiejohn]

Slightly off topic.

 

Is the next expat meeting this Friday and if so can non members just turn up, what time and any costs (joining, meeting breakfast etc.).  It sounds an interesting topic.

 

I am Sure Nancy L (hopefully) will respond.

 

 

OOPS;  No offence meant to the above poster

[ThaiPauly]

I have heard good things about Cigna, worth looking them up

[Victor Paul]

Will do cheers

[opalred]

not worth the high costs at your age

in the long term go to public hospital still cheap

 oops sorry this is another expat advert

[Lizard2010]

15 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

Slightly off topic.

 

Is the next expat meeting this Friday and if so can non members just turn up, what time and any costs (joining, meeting breakfast etc.).  It sounds an interesting topic.

 

I am Sure Nancy L (hopefully) will respond.

 

 

OOPS;  No offence meant to the above poster

Yes everyone is welcome

The time is 9 30 till 11 30

Cost is 300 non members  250 for members

If you pay 1000 for life membership it pays for itself with the 50 baht discount quicly

IMHO

Here is their website

 

http://www.chiangmaiexpatsclub.com/meetings/

 

[Lizard2010]

Correction

The Next Expat Breakfast is on Friday the 20th January

[NancyL]

17 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

Slightly off topic.

 

Is the next expat meeting this Friday and if so can non members just turn up, what time and any costs (joining, meeting breakfast etc.).  It sounds an interesting topic.

 

I am Sure Nancy L (hopefully) will respond.

 

 

OOPS;  No offence meant to the above poster

 

The next CM Expats Club breakfast is Friday, January 20th at River Market restaurant, 9:30 am You can just show up for a great buffet breakfast.  250 baht for member, 300 baht for guest.  You can join the club there.  1000 baht lifetime membership.

 

As for insurance, there are two sponsors of CEC who have insurance, CNX Insure and AIA Insurance  http://www.chiangmaiexpatsclub.com/business-sponsors/?show=category&t=business-sponsors  Normally reps from both companies come to the CEC General Meetings and have info tables in the foyer outside the meeting.  The next General Meeting is Saturday, January 28, Le Meridien Hotel.  The meeting starts at 10.30 am, but arrive at 10 am if you'd like to talk with the insurance reps.  Better yet, if you join CEC, you can come to our Annual General Meeting at 9 am on the 28th, ahead of the General Meeting.

[MalandLee]

QUESTION: Is it a realistic possibility to negotiate universal EXPAT insurance, with the Thai Government?

Loosely Based on: The COMPULSORY Schengen visa HEALTH insurance scheme.

 

Looking at this website http://bit.ly/2g13Ip3 (Please Read)

 

In a world of sound bytes and one liners, few will read this entire post, however, here goes.

 

Member thoughts, appreciated. I have been a member of this forum since 2008 and post very little – but, I do read from time to time. There are many negative posters and whilst I welcome robust debate, PLEASE try to offer constructive comment. If you do NOT agree, PLEASE put your argument as to why?

 

I understand “the wealthy” will baulk at this, for two reasons ONE, they can afford health insurance, regardless of cost, mere “pennies” to many wealthy. TWO, They would resent paying the compulsory premium as it does not benefit them. However, despite their protests, it will be compulsory for them too.

 

I sincerely believe that MANY people will gain significant “peace of mind”, at the very least, from this universally affordable plan.

If Thailand adopted the minimum COMPULSORY Schengen “style” visa HEALTH insurance scheme, “similar” to the above website:-

 

NOTE: This is not travel insurance.

 

Calculate for yourself, it is easy. All I have done, to cope with the many currencies used by many MEMBERS on this board, is to convert to Baht.

 

At aged 70, For a premium of about 1,100 baht per month, a "retiree" could have BASIC insurance totalling approximately 2,250,000 Baht. At aged 90, the premium would be THE SAME. It would of course, be based on Thailand’s public health system.

 

My guess is “Thailand” will do nothing to assist it’s expatiates. Not out of malice, but purely because it lacks the political will.

 

Having said that, government may be persuaded, if it were convinced of a significant revenue stream. Thailand DOES do a lot for its long and short term foreign visitors, Spain was the first country to have a tourist police, Thailand & Malaysia quickly followed as have many countries, hence it is proactive in many areas. IMO, the Thai tourist police are the worlds best - I know many will disagree!

 

Governments, can underwrite these sort of things, no need to give profits to insurance companies. It NEEDS both the political will and a proactive government

 

REVENUE

EXPATS: It is impossible for me to find out how many expats exist in Thailand. SO for the sake of argument. Lets say there are 100,000 – this Govt. (If it were UNDERWRITTEN by Govt.) would earn One billion, three hundred and twenty millon Baht per annum. (1,320,000,000)

 

TOURISTS

30 million tourists (2015 figures 29.8 million) each with a compulsory health policy @ approx 700 Baht each (19 Euro) Twenty-one BILLION Baht. (21,000,000,000). This is for a one month stay, more for longer. Because the premium is so low, it would result in a negligible reduction in visitors. Would you want those visitors that cannot afford 19 Euro?

 

SOME QUESTIONS & STATEMENTS:

There WILL be fundamental differences necessary, between the policy in Europe and one tailored to our circumstances here in Thailand.

The above website is “Poland centric” hence, terms and conditions are Poland centric also. WE NEED TO NEGOTIATE OUR TERMS AND CONDITIONS.

What is to stop “our community” approaching the European insurance company and asking them to offer a similar policy for ALL Thailand’s Ex-pat’s, tourists, rich & poor alike?

My guess: “The single biggest roadblock is lack of Thai Government involvement.??"

For it to be “actuarially” sound it probably would need to be compulsory.

It could be linked to ALL classes of visa & incorporated into the visa application process – No policy no visa. (Again Thai Gov. involvement)

It’s BASE level, would probably only be for Public Hospitals. Any revenue earned could benefit the public system or consolidated revenue.

 

There are multiple, possibly related, dynamics in play. Expat suicide rate(s), depression, relationship issues, financial hardship, etc. etc. All related to health & money. The single biggest thing for many older expat’s is “health” and it’s associated costs. Not to mention tourist accidents, which is a significant area of concern.

 

If we were to find a way to approach this (an) insurance company, quantifying the demographic here in Thailand would be important. People such as yourselves, may understand this dynamic better than most?.

 

I am not a highly educated man, my formal education is related to Machines, not people. Aircraft Engineer and Computer Technician – hardware. Being the main two.

 

To be honest I have no idea where or how to begin. I guess we need:

Someone who understands medical issues,

Someone who understands the social issues and their impact on Thai Society.

Someone with the ability to craft a proposal to both the Thai Government and the insurance company(s).

People willing to commit, for the long haul.

Probably much more.

 

Anyhow I probably have bored you to death if you read this far… If you choose not to reply, I understand.

 

After I send this I will think of things I should/should not, have said – I always do.

[sharktooth]

Assist Thai Visa do it through ACS and are quite reasonably priced.

[Lizard2010]

11 minutes ago, sharktooth said:

Assist Thai Visa do it through ACS and are quite reasonably priced.

Ok

At what Cost

Also at what age does it cost more

Too many variables with the Insurance Companys

[Lizard2010]

MalandLee

 

Well siad

 

The Tourist Minister would who is responsible for  Longstay Expats She Knows about all this

 

This was brought up at the Longstay Meeting At The Empress Hotel last year

 

But as you pointed out The Government will not bend over backwards to help us

 

The only want the Rich here

 

As they want to beat Malaysia As the No 1 destination for Expats

 

I dont think this will ever happen here

 

[sharktooth]

41 minutes ago, Lizard2010 said:

Ok

At what Cost

Also at what age does it cost more

Too many variables with the Insurance Companys

 

How long is a piece of string? Depends on your age, current health condition and package you want. Google them, email them and they will get back to you.

[Lizard2010]

1 minute ago, sharktooth said:

 

How long is a piece of string? Depends on your age, current health condition and package you want. Google them, email them and they will get back to you.

Exactly

[luther]

4 hours ago, Lizard2010 said:

Ok

At what Cost

Also at what age does it cost more

Too many variables with the Insurance Companys

Pay 2,300 US dollars per year for health insurance through ACS. Ages 60-65.  They paid over 50,000 $ in medical bills for me last year.  Just re-upped for another year.

[Lizard2010]

2 minutes ago, luther said:

Pay 2,300 US dollars per year for health insurance through ACS. Ages 60-65.  They paid over 50,000 $ in medical bills for me last year.  Just re-upped for another year.

You will find most people are over 65

When they come to retire here

[NancyL]

1 hour ago, Lizard2010 said:

You will find most people are over 65

When they come to retire here

Actually, the average age of CEC members is right at age 65, so many come here before age 65.  Companies like Health Care International will start new policies up to age 75, but the cost will be more than US$2300 per year.  What MalandLee proposed simply isn't workable from an actuarial standpoint.  There's a reason insurance becomes more expensive the older you get.  The Thai gov't health care system is stretched to capacity already.  The last thing they want are to open the flood gates elderly foreign retirees who are paying something like the 13,300 baht/month proposed by MalandLee.

 

Hubby and I went to Malaysia and investigated the 10 yr Malaysia retirement visa in December.  You have to have health insurance.  No option to buy into their gov't health care cheaply.  You have to purchase private health cover at the sort of prices Luther mentioned.  

[opalred]

first if you are over 65  insurance hard to get 

and if can get will cost a fortune in premiums

then in small print will say if you go to hospital  for treatment  was a past condition

and not covered  everything is a past condition 

if you go to public  the Dr are trained at same university as Dr in private hospital

you might have to wait in public  being over 65 it becomes a outing

better than sitting in your condo reading expat newsletter over a 100 times

i have to add to the expat club 

you have your own newsletter keep it there 

[canthai55]

Nancy posted some good info above. Telling her to not post is Rude and Offensive. This is a public Forum. You want to filter people who post - start your own Forum

[harrry]

1 hour ago, NancyL said:

Actually, the average age of CEC members is right at age 65, so many come here before age 65.  Companies like Health Care International will start new policies up to age 75, but the cost will be more than US$2300 per year.  What MalandLee proposed simply isn't workable from an actuarial standpoint.  There's a reason insurance becomes more expensive the older you get.  The Thai gov't health care system is stretched to capacity already.  The last thing they want are to open the flood gates elderly foreign retirees who are paying something like the 13,300 baht/month proposed by MalandLee.

 

Hubby and I went to Malaysia and investigated the 10 yr Malaysia retirement visa in December.  You have to have health insurance.  No option to buy into their gov't health care cheaply.  You have to purchase private health cover at the sort of prices Luther mentioned.  

MM2H (Malaysia My Second Home)

According to the goverment, in order to be accepted in Malaysia's expatriate retirement scheme, your medical insurance must be valid, "Approved participants and their dependants must possess valid medical insurance coverage that is applicable in Malaysia from any insurance company." There is an exception however, that is actually used regularly by would-be expats, "exemptions may be given for participants who face difficulty in obtaining a medical insurance due to their age or medical condition," but you are still required to present a formal letter from an insurer rejecting your claim of application, in order to continue through with being accepted on the MM2H programme. 

 

 

You were obviously poorly advised in your case.

[NancyL]

17 minutes ago, harrry said:

MM2H (Malaysia My Second Home)

According to the goverment, in order to be accepted in Malaysia's expatriate retirement scheme, your medical insurance must be valid, "Approved participants and their dependants must possess valid medical insurance coverage that is applicable in Malaysia from any insurance company." There is an exception however, that is actually used regularly by would-be expats, "exemptions may be given for participants who face difficulty in obtaining a medical insurance due to their age or medical condition," but you are still required to present a formal letter from an insurer rejecting your claim of application, in order to continue through with being accepted on the MM2H programme. 

 

 

You were obviously poorly advised in your case.

 

Nope, we were told of this.   You are misreading this paragraph.  It says you have to apply for medical insurance and show you were rejected outright.   For example, my coverage thru HCI excludes a pre-existing condition, but covers everything else.  I was told this would be acceptable for MM2H to have a major condition listed as an exclusion by the insurance company.  Several of the major international insurance companies will sell new policies to incoming retirees up to age 75 and continue to renew after age 75, so yes, you could present a letter saying you're being denied total cover because you're over age 75 when you enroll in MM2H.  But realistically, most people come into MM2H before age 75 and you won't be able to drop your insurance once you reach age 75 on the grounds that it's become "too expensive".  You have to maintain it to certain levels.  

 

Note, there have been changes to the insurance provisions of MM2H in the past couple years and old info is probably still on the internet.  Also, there are differences in requirements between the different states in Malaysia.

 

There is a myth that if you have some pre-existing conditions you won't be able to obtain health insurance at all.  That's simply not true.  Declare those conditions and they will be excluded from the policy, but you will be covered for other situations.  Everyone is able to obtain personal accident insurance cover for example, up to age 100 here in Thailand (and Malaysia of course) no matter their condition.  I've taken people in wheelchairs in to purchase it.  I'm still amazed with the ignorance there is where people don't even try to shop for health or personal accident insurance because they think it's "too expensive" or "won't cover me".

[NancyL]

1 hour ago, opalred said:

first if you are over 65  insurance hard to get 

and if can get will cost a fortune in premiums

then in small print will say if you go to hospital  for treatment  was a past condition

and not covered  everything is a past condition 

if you go to public  the Dr are trained at same university as Dr in private hospital

you might have to wait in public  being over 65 it becomes a outing

better than sitting in your condo reading expat newsletter over a 100 times

i have to add to the expat club 

you have your own newsletter keep it there 

Yesterday I spent the day assisting an older expat who has no health insurance and recently suffered a stroke.  He had an appointment with a neurologist at Suan Dok (Maharaj), the gov't hospital.  It was hardly a nice day out or "outing" for him.

 

The queue for the elevator (lift) up to the 9th floor was 30 minutes long.  He waited another 30 minutes to get his blood pressure checked for initial check-in.  Then sit around in a large room stuffed to the gills for 2.5 hours.  It was very warm despite the day being cool outside.  No aircon.  Finally he got to see a doctor who turned out to be a resident, not even a professor for about 10 minutes.  His English was heavily accented and the poor man I was assisting had a great deal of difficulty following the doctor's commands to do a basic neurological evaluation.  Then a wait of an hour to get an appointment slip for the follow-up appointment in a month, 20 minutes in the queue for the cashier then 1.5 hours to wait for the pharmacy to call his name to pick up the meds prescribed by the neurological resident doctor.  Good news -- total charge less than 200 baht and he got a nice big bag of pills, too!

 

I'm really dreading the follow up appointment in a month.  They want him to arrive by 7 am to have some blood drawn for tests prior to a repeat of the day described above.  Not very good for someone in a wheelchair, partially paralyzed on one side.

 

As I said earlier in this thread, the Thai gov't hospitals are over-burdened taking care of Thai people.  This is no place to be if you can't afford insurance and/or to pay for private health care.

[sqwakvfr]

WOW.  Thanks for the info NancyL.  I called that a Reality Check.  I will continue to research the various Health Insurance Options available in Thailand.  I guess it is like the old saying "It is better to have coverage and not need it  then to need coverage and not have it"

[luther]

1 hour ago, NancyL said:

As I said earlier in this thread, the Thai gov't hospitals are over-burdened taking care of Thai people.  This is no place to be if you can't afford insurance and/or to pay for private health care.

I totally agree.  A majority of people I know here have little or no health insurance.  Cancer or a stroke or a a big accident won't wipe them out, but most are living in a fantasy that they will die peacefully in their sleep.  The cost of drugs and quality care are rising very quickly in Thailand.  Ten years ago out of pocket prices were so low you could think you were home free.  Not anymore.

[totally thaied up]

I was very, very sick on the first of January. I had insurance with ACS, and they suggested I go to Bangkok Hospital.

 

I got admitted within 10 minutes of arriving. ACS is still paying today for my follow up visits. At 30,000 baht a day (yes, there are cheaper hospitals for certain)  while I was in hospital recovering, I thanked the Gods for my insurance.

 

I have seen the public system as well with my Thai wife. Her mother has diabetes. When she goes for her check-up, she has to be at the local hospital at 4 am. If she is lucky, she will be away by 3 pm that afternoon. She gets three months of medication for 200 baht. I had to take her to Lana to get a full investigation from a specialist last year and for her to get a letter from the hospital explaining to her public hospital the drugs she needs to be on.

 

Yes, better safe than sorry. For me now, my next two years of insurance payments have been paid for in just one trip to the hospital. Another friend of mine had food poisoning in Pattaya. Was in ICU for five days and 14 days in total. His bill was over 200,000.

 

Medicine, when you need it in life-threatening situations, is not cheap guys.

[stament]

how much approx is the insurance, pls advise age too 

[MalandLee]

6 hours ago, NancyL said:

Actually, the average age of CEC members is right at age 65, so many come here before age 65.  Companies like Health Care International will start new policies up to age 75, but the cost will be more than US$2300 per year.  What MalandLee proposed simply isn't workable from an actuarial standpoint.  There's a reason insurance becomes more expensive the older you get.  The Thai gov't health care system is stretched to capacity already.  The last thing they want are to open the flood gates elderly foreign retirees who are paying something like the 13,300 baht/month proposed by MalandLee.

 

Hubby and I went to Malaysia and investigated the 10 yr Malaysia retirement visa in December.  You have to have health insurance.  No option to buy into their gov't health care cheaply.  You have to purchase private health cover at the sort of prices Luther mentioned.  

 

Hi Nancy, we have not met, I hope one day we can rectify that over coffee.

A couple of things I am unsure about, in your post.

1. Where did you get the figure of 13,300 Baht per month from - it was not in my post - I said 1,100 Baht per month.
2. Could you please explain how you concluded that it is actuarially unsound. This is a significant point and it is better "discussed" rather than dismissed out of hand.  FURTHER: if we are to believe the new visitors figures, put out by the Govt. yesterday, we can expect 34 MILLION visitors this year - each paying a premium of about 700+ Baht 23,800,000,000 (a VAST majority of whom are young and will never claim) but will generate at the very least 24, BILLION Baht. PLEASE read the post in more detail - actuarially, this will cover those 100,000 long term Expat's, handsomely - don't forget they too will be adding their premiums too, over 1.3 billion Baht more.

I thank you for taking the time to comment

Mal

[LannaGuy]

I went through all the research and comparisons and through TVF posts and plumped for BUPA for a few reasons:

 

good rep and feedback from posters

instant 'recognition'

no need pay 'up-front' and reclaim

no medical

they take care of claims with hospitals and are respected

 

whoever you choose stay health, wealthy and wise