Muslim girls must attend mixed swim class - European rights court

[Thorgal]

Excellent decision; setting an example is no good against dogma; unfortunately you have to fight dogma with dogma.

They just should adhere to the rules. No more.

If they want more intimacy, Switzerland, Germany and Austria are well known for respecting diversity. Public swimming pools are open on different times for specific public as naturists, gays, Muslim, Orthodox Jews, women only, etc...

No need to fight dogma with dogma...


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[simple1]

33 minutes ago, Caps said:

Yes Dad, I am engaged with the issue, but I am not interested in people who try and appease Muslims. They live in a Western Country, they abide by Western ways and if they don't like it they know where the door is.
If they don't like it they can go somewhere else


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Why do you only call out Muslims as there members of other faiths, including the far right/left, who clearly do not comply to Western liberalism, which I assume you meant by "western ways",

Edited January 11, 2017 by simple1

[i claudius]

 

Should the same apply to Orthodox Jews who refuse to shake hands with female teachers due to their religious beliefs?

 

http://www.eurojewcong.org/switzerland/15240-swiss-jews-oppose-fining-children-who-refuse-to-shake-teachers-hands.html

As I thought,it was Muslim boys that refused to shake hands ,not Jewish boys. It just stated that some orthodox Jews are against it,but not one has so far refused,that is unless you have a report where any Jew has "actually"refused

Sent from my ASUS_T00J using Tapatalk

[humqdpf]

13 hours ago, simple1 said:

 

Should the same apply to Orthodox Jews who refuse to shake hands with female teachers due to their religious beliefs?

 

http://www.eurojewcong.org/switzerland/15240-swiss-jews-oppose-fining-children-who-refuse-to-shake-teachers-hands.html

In fairness, not shaking hands with the teacher of your child is hardly going to impact on your child's education and welfare. Denying sports will.

 

The fact remains that even in Muslim majority countries, children of both sexes play together in beach wear at the beach and swimming pools so this should be no biggie for anyone.

 

If you want a biggie, how about countries like Saudi Arabia that denies everyone but Muslims the right to worship?

[nuakmuaynina]

Good, I'm not anti anyone but I really feel that especially in schools everyone should get treated the same.  If you don't like western standards, do not move to the west...

[Kiwi1]

Hmmm, most responders seem obsessed with 'rules'. Suggest they Google 'Authoritarian personality'.

 

Also bemused that swimming is defined as a sport, when surely the reason for teaching swimming at schools is to inculcate survival skills. Just as we teach kindergarten kids how to cross the road safely.

 

Modern secular societies cannot function without unwritten rules about respect for difference in customs and personal behaviour. In many cases a line has to be drawn somewhere, and the name of the game is about drawing the line while respecting the right to be different. The swimming lessons are about safety and it is in the child's own interest  to learn to swim. Therefore it is reasonable to require parents to fall into line.

 

Nevertheless, the matter should be handled sensitively. It is not so long ago that mixed bathing no matter how enveloping the bathing suits (burkinis?) were. We even had beach police checking that bathing suits complied with the law. When pointing the finger at muslims in this matter remember we have four fingers pointing back at us.

 

Similar conditions can apply to dress codes. I defend any woman's right to wear a hijab. The case of the burka is a a special case of the prohibition against wearing masks, full face helmets, even dark glasses in banks and other places where people must be recognisable. Problems arise when we do not make a general restriction against wearing masks in public, except for safety and health considerations. In the absence of such a general restriction we must accept that women are free to wear burkas.

[simple1]

1 hour ago, i claudius said:

As I thought,it was Muslim boys that refused to shake hands ,not Jewish boys. It just stated that some orthodox Jews are against it,but not one has so far refused,that is unless you have a report where any Jew has "actually"refused

Sent from my ASUS_T00J using Tapatalk

 

I thought it worthwhile to highlight some cultural behaviour in orthodox religions are similar - no big deal. However, from the Jewish Congress website...

 

some devout Jews also refrain from touching members of the opposite sex because they view doing so as inappropriate.

 

 

[The Old Bull]

It took Christianity a long time to emerge from the dark ages ,the Spanish inquisition and the whitch burners are not long gone. Hasidic Jews and Muslims  still have a long way to go but I think one is safe in saying western nations have adopted modern Christian values.

I say keep up the pressure don't go backwards.

[Nemo.]

Speaking as a Muslim myself (due to marriage but i did a course on the basics) the parents are not following Islamic rules but it seems their own cultural rules. Young girls should not wear headscalves etc as too young to be married. The school will have child protection rules that meet islamic requirements of keeping boys and girls apart. They went even further by allowing a burkini and own changing space. School acted very honourably and with sensitivity. Hence the parents rightly lost as they are applying cultural rules blindly.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

Unfortunately,my karma ran over my Dogma!..

[Khon Kaen Dave]

And what about Buddhist monks,who arent allowed to be touched by a woman?? Yeah right! Hypocrisy at its best,that one.

[7by7]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If it was part of the curriculum, yes, but I doubt it is.

I never shook hands with one of my teachers, when I was a pupil. You could have picked a better example to use.

 

Neither did I; but my parents did and I shook the hands of my daughter's teachers at parents evenings etc.

 

The example is valid.

 

As is this: Girl could be shunned by ultra-religious family for eating McDonald’s

Quote

A nine-year-old girl could be ostracised from an ultra-orthodox Jewish community after she ate McDonald’s fast food and went to a mixed-sex gymnastics class, a family court judge has been told

(7by7 emphasis)

Why is it that certain people find examples of orthodoxy amongst Muslims abhorrent, yet accept it from followers of other religions?

[jaapfries]

12 hours ago, simple1 said:

 

Should the same apply to Orthodox Jews who refuse to shake hands with female teachers due to their religious beliefs?

 

http://www.eurojewcong.org/switzerland/15240-swiss-jews-oppose-fining-children-who-refuse-to-shake-teachers-hands.html

 

Judaism IS a Religion, whereas Islam is NOT ! ! !

[SiSePuede419]

Welcome to the 19th century!  You're going to love the benefits of steam power ?

[7by7]

5 hours ago, i claudius said:

 

Every Jew oi have ever known ,mix in with the locals and do not "demand" any rights ,

 

When I was at school, Jewish pupils, and some others like Plymouth Brethren, did 'demand' their right to not attend religious instruction classes and school assemblies.

 

5 hours ago, i claudius said:

 

but i have never heard of any store making their meat counters Kosher and nor telling the local population ,unlike the Halal practice .

 

Supermarkets sell products which are in demand. My local supermarkets do sell halal meat; but it is clearly labelled as such. If it wasn't, their Muslim customers wouldn't buy it!

 

Yes,  according to the RSPCA,  some  meat from animals slaughtered by halal methods is unsuitable for halal consumption and sold unlabelled; but, due to the stricter kosher rules, far more meat from animals slaughtered by kosher methods is sold in this way.

 

A reminder that, again according to the RSPCA, 85% of halal meat slaughtered in the UK is pre stunned; no kosher meat is.

[i claudius]

Why is it that certain people find examples of orthodoxy amongst Muslims abhorrent, yet accept it from followers of other religions?

Mainly I suppose because its only tiny minorities of these groups who do not conform and if you do not comply with them ,nothing happens ,whereas Muslims kill ,demonstrate and generally create mayhem around the world if you don't do as they want, but hey a religion of peace don't ya know

Sent from my ASUS_T00J using Tapatalk

[7by7]

Just now, i claudius said:

Mainly I suppose because its only tiny minorities of these groups who do not conform and if you do not comply with them ,nothing happens ,whereas Muslims kill ,demonstrate and generally create mayhem around the world if you don't do as they want, but hey a religion of peace don't ya know

Sent from my ASUS_T00J using Tapatalk
 

 

Yes, I know that you believe all Muslims follow and support groups like ISIS, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary presented to you on numerous occasions.

 

It is difficult to present arguments to counter blind ignorance and prejudice such as yours; as even hard facts which disprove your belief are dismissed as lies!

 

Something you have in common with those you despise?

[i claudius]

7 by 7
When I was in school Jews did not attend assembly and sing prayers, and so it should be ,I do not attend shawl,and my son who is Bhuddist but went to a Catholic school did not pray in assembly either,you really are clutching at straws there

Sent from my ASUS_T00J using Tapatalk

[7by7]

6 hours ago, i claudius said:

7 by 7
When I was in school Jews did not attend assembly and sing prayers, and so it should be ,I do not attend shawl,and my son who is Bhuddist but went to a Catholic school did not pray in assembly either,you really are clutching at straws there

Sent from my ASUS_T00J using Tapatalk
 

 

Point missed or more likely ignored; not surprised.

 

Religious education is compulsory in all state schools in England*, but it is not compulsory for pupils to attend if their parents do not wish them to do so.

 

A daily act of worship is compulsory in state schools in England*, but it is not compulsory for pupils to attend if their parents do not wish them to do so.

 

Sex education  is compulsory in all state schools in England*, but it is not compulsory for pupils to attend if their parents do not wish them to do so.

 

Some people, of all religions, do not wish their children to attend mixed sex swimming lessons or other activities due to their religious and/or cultural beliefs. Why should they be forced to do so?

 

I find it amusing that some people who have in the past called for the UK to withdraw from both the ECHR and it's court are on this on this occasion full of praise for it!

 

*I haven't checked, but imagine it's the same in all other parts of the UK; or at least very similar.

 

[DefaultName]

20 hours ago, Caps said:

Good, if they don't like the decision they can always move to a muslim country

The plan seems to be; move to a country, then make it Muslim.  And scream for your rights if anyone objects - rights that we wouldn't get in a Muslim country.

[thai3]

8 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Yes, I know that you believe all Muslims follow and support groups like ISIS, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary presented to you on numerous occasions.

 

It is difficult to present arguments to counter blind ignorance and prejudice such as yours; as even hard facts which disprove your belief are dismissed as lies!

 

Something you have in common with those you despise?

 

Not all Muslims support Isis, but they ALL support the violent and divisive Koran, and the violent life of the Prophet which gave rise to Isis and other jihadist terror groups

[Scott]

This thread is about mixed swim lessons.   Stay on topic.   I don't think the Koran says much about the issue of swimming lessons.   Since it doesn't, neither should you.  

[bandito]

22 hours ago, simple1 said:

 

Should the same apply to Orthodox Jews who refuse to shake hands with female teachers due to their religious beliefs?

 

http://www.eurojewcong.org/switzerland/15240-swiss-jews-oppose-fining-children-who-refuse-to-shake-teachers-hands.html

 

Muslims and Bhuddist monks also refuse to shake hands with females.

Quite a lot.

[Kevbo]

At last someone in authority has recognised that appeasement doesn't work. Could we be seeing the end of bending over backwards because of cowardice in Europe ?

[F4UCorsair]

21 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

No. Because that's different. Don't ask me how, but it is.

 

 

As different as Buddhist monks not having any contact, i.e., shaking hands with a woman???

[F4UCorsair]

This is yet another example of how muslims try to change the society, in which they are given a chance to live in harmony, from within.

 

In Australia, some public pools are closed at certain times so that muslim women can swim, in the full clobber, incidentally, away from the prying eyes of infidels, demanding only halal food be served in school tuck shops, etc., as many products as possible available in supermarkets be halal, even though less than 3%  of the population is muslim, etc.  I recently saw halal approved bottled water.   What's that if it's not a con.   I guess a message, visible only to muslims, must come through the tap at regular intervals just to assure them it's all kosher  halal......oops, my slip!!

 

The tragedy is that western societies cave in under threat of being labelled racist!!!

 

 

Edited January 12, 2017 by F4UCorsair

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.  

[ddavidovsky]

4 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Religious education is compulsory in all state schools in England*, but it is not compulsory for pupils to attend if their parents do not wish them to do so.

 

A daily act of worship is compulsory in state schools in England*, but it is not compulsory for pupils to attend if their parents do not wish them to do so.

 

Sex education  is compulsory in all state schools in England*, but it is not compulsory for pupils to attend if their parents do not wish them to do so.

 

Some people, of all religions, do not wish their children to attend mixed sex swimming lessons or other activities due to their religious and/or cultural beliefs. Why should they be forced to do so?

 

 

 

Because swimming is not a religious matter, but social. The Swiss want a society integrated in socially reasonable ways.

[thai3]

Correct, and Islam does not

[surfinglife]

On Wednesday, January 11, 2017 at 11:39 AM, roobaa01 said:

thats on what western europe is built and christian social democrats are demanding of muslims, assimilation in all respects.ISLAM does not belong to western europes society.

 

 

wbr

roobaa01

Why Western? Does it belong in Eastern or Central or Southern Europe? Or Americas? Obviously not.