Muslim girls must attend mixed swim class - European rights court

By Gilbert Reilhac

REUTERS

 

STRASBOURG, France (Reuters) - A Muslim couple who refused on religious grounds to allow their two young daughters take part in boys-and-girls school swimming lessons in Switzerland did not have the right to do so, the European Court of Human Rights ruled on Tuesday.

 

The ruling by the court was a first on the specific issue of religious beliefs versus school rules where sport, in this case involving some exposure of the body and changing of clothes, is part of obligatory activities.

 

Schooling, including sports, overrode religious convictions, notably when the school sought to address the couple's concerns by offering to let the girls wear burkinis - full-body swimwear - and change into it without boys present, the court said.

 

The case ended up at the rights court, based in the eastern French city of Strasbourg, when a couple of Turkish nationality fought a Swiss decision to fine them 1,400 Swiss francs ($1,380) for failure to respect schooling rules.

 

The Swiss authorities fined the couple in 2010 for refusing to send the two girls, born in 1999 and 2002, to the swimming lessons. After a challenge in the Swiss courts, the parents turned to the European rights court.

 

(Reporting by Gilbert Reilhac; Writing by Brian Love; Editing by Andrew Callus)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-01-11

Good, if they don't like the decision they can always move to a muslim country

20 minutes ago, Caps said:

Good, if they don't like the decision they can always move to a muslim country

 

Should the same apply to Orthodox Jews who refuse to shake hands with female teachers due to their religious beliefs?

 

http://www.eurojewcong.org/switzerland/15240-swiss-jews-oppose-fining-children-who-refuse-to-shake-teachers-hands.html

48 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Should the same apply to Orthodox Jews who refuse to shake hands with female teachers due to their religious beliefs?

 

http://www.eurojewcong.org/switzerland/15240-swiss-jews-oppose-fining-children-who-refuse-to-shake-teachers-hands.html

No. Because that's different. Don't ask me how, but it is.

55 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

No. Because that's different. Don't ask me how, but it is.

Ah selective in choosing who can and who can't. Often a ploy from the Jewish. No I am not anti sematic but believe everyone should follow basic western practices or find somewhere else to instill their practices. I stand up for the Kings song  when in the cinema and happy too, and I believe it is politeness. I don' see shaking hands as any difference in a civilized world.

Excellent decision; setting an example is no good against dogma; unfortunately you have to fight dogma with dogma.

18 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Ah selective in choosing who can and who can't. Often a ploy from the Jewish. No I am not anti sematic but believe everyone should follow basic western practices or find somewhere else to instill their practices. I stand up for the Kings song  when in the cinema and happy too, and I believe it is politeness. I don' see shaking hands as any difference in a civilized world.

So much silliness to unravel here.  For instance the word "ploy". In other words the religious convictions of Muslims, Jews, or anyone else can't be sincere if they conflict with the laws of the Western country they are in. Really?   And now Judaism also isn't "Western" Or for that matter, Islam?  What exactly does "western" mean?

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

No. Because that's different. Don't ask me how, but it is.

 

I agree, mostly, in Thailand people Wai each other, Inuit, if thats how you spell it, rub noses, Scottish people throw big rocks at each other, in Braveheart anyway.

People all over the world greet each other in different ways. Just do as is their custom.

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

No. Because that's different. Don't ask me how, but it is.

 

 

It's off topic for a start surely?

who does not like jewish-christian values, integrating in western society is to face stiff zero tolerance and sanctions. same applies to nihab, burka, headscarfes to be taken out of public sight .

 

wbr

roobaa01

5 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

who does not like jewish-christian values, integrating in western society is to face stiff zero tolerance and sanctions. same applies to nihab, burka, headscarfes to be taken out of public sight .

 

wbr

roobaa01

You mean like Hasidic Jews who apparently in your mind don't adhere to those values? And what exactly are Judaeo-Christian values?  And whose authority do you base your definition on?

thats on what western europe is built and christian social democrats are demanding of muslims, assimilation in all respects.ISLAM does not belong to western europes society.

 

 

wbr

roobaa01

3 hours ago, simple1 said:

 

Should the same apply to Orthodox Jews who refuse to shake hands with female teachers due to their religious beliefs?

 

http://www.eurojewcong.org/switzerland/15240-swiss-jews-oppose-fining-children-who-refuse-to-shake-teachers-hands.html

If it was part of the curriculum, yes, but I doubt it is.

I never shook hands with one of my teachers, when I was a pupil. You could have picked a better example to use.

6 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

thats on what western europe is built and christian social democrats are demanding of muslims, assimilation in all respects.ISLAM does not belong to western europes society.

 

 

wbr

roobaa01

 

Then in your opinion should the same thought process apply to  members of other orthodox religious practice apply? e.g. some orthodox religious groups (non Muslim) insist on gender separation at private schools, no marriage outside of their faith, social interaction with others outside of their faith frowned upon and so on - they are not complying with the expectation of assimilation are they.

Excellent decision. If they want to send their children to that school, expect to adhere to the rules of that school.

 

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

 

Then in your opinion should the same thought process apply to  members of other orthodox religious practice apply? e.g. some orthodox religious groups (non Muslim) insist on gender separation at private schools, no marriage outside of their faith, social interaction with others outside of their faith frowned upon and so on - they are not complying with the expectation of assimilation are they.

If it's a private school, then those that pay set the rules. If they are old enough to marry, they can make their own decision- if they don't like it they can leave the religion. Same applies to all aspects of religion for adults.

The penalty for Muslims leaving Islam is officially death, though that would only apply ( hopefully ) in Sharia countries.

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If it was part of the curriculum, yes, but I doubt it is.

I never shook hands with one of my teachers, when I was a pupil. You could have picked a better example to use.

 

Refusing to shake hands with female members of staff is a component of the OP story and if you read the link also supported by some Orthodox Jews.

 

"Swiss Jews spoke out on Wednesday against a regulation that makes it illegal for schoolchildren to refuse to shake hands with their teachers because of religious reasons"

 

http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/1.723931

7 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Refusing to shake hands with female members of staff is a component of the OP story and if you read the link also supported by some Orthodox Jews.

 

"Swiss Jews spoke out on Wednesday against a regulation that makes it illegal for schoolchildren to refuse to shake hands with their teachers because of religious reasons"

 

http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/1.723931

That's bizarre. Why should pupils have to shake hands with teachers? I choose whom I shake hands with.

However if it's a school rule, then yes they should have to, until it's cancelled for being a barking stupidity.

 

19 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Then in your opinion should the same thought process apply to  members of other orthodox religious practice apply? e.g. some orthodox religious groups (non Muslim) insist on gender separation at private schools, no marriage outside of their faith, social interaction with others outside of their faith frowned upon and so on - they are not complying with the expectation of assimilation are they.

 

I believe in secular states and secular laws. Fit in or move.

Would a Thai monk shake hands with a female if he happened to be in Europe?

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

I believe in secular states and secular laws. Fit in or move.

That would be dictatorship and I don't want to live in a country that enforces sameness- too 1984 by far. However, if one wants to send one's pride and joy to a state school instead of paying to send them to one that accomodates fairy story beliefs, them one should accept that they are all subject to the same rules.

If they don't like it they can always return back to their deserts.. No pools there

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That would be dictatorship and I don't want to live in a country that enforces sameness- too 1984 by far. However, if one wants to send one's pride and joy to a state school instead of paying to send them to one that accomodates fairy story beliefs, them one should accept that they are all subject to the same rules.

 

Nope. Secularism does NOT equate to dictatorship. Furthermore you can believe what you like just keep it to yourself. Religious teaching is generally arcane, superstitious and wrong.

6 hours ago, simple1 said:

 

Should the same apply to Orthodox Jews who refuse to shake hands with female teachers due to their religious beliefs?

 

http://www.eurojewcong.org/switzerland/15240-swiss-jews-oppose-fining-children-who-refuse-to-shake-teachers-hands.html

 

Every Jew oi have ever known ,mix in with the locals and do not "demand" any rights , ok we have had Kosher shops for years in the UK  but i have never heard of any store making their meat counters Kosher and nor telling the local population ,unlike the Halal practice , personally i think its stupid if anyone refuses to shake hands with a female teacher(i read it was muslim children ,not jews) but i will take your word that this is so as well , and i believe they should .

Jewx have never been any problem , muslims in the last 25 years have become a real problem in the west .

3 hours ago, roobaa01 said:

thats on what western europe is built and christian social democrats are demanding of muslims, assimilation in all respects.ISLAM does not belong to western europes society.

 

 

wbr

roobaa01

What nonsense. If anything, modern Western Europe is built on the principles of the Enlightenment which imposed the separation of church and state and preferred reasoned principles over dogma.

I completely agree with this sentence.

Religious freedom is one thing and it needs to be protected (no matter, I do think, it is a bunch of fairytales!).

But state- laws HAVE to overwrite religious laws- end of!

I can't understand why western countries try to bend the rules and customs for any immigrant.

All of these court rulings are a big waste of time and money.  

Have a westerner move to a non western country and see if they will bend any rule to accommodate western

customs.... never in a million years.

 
Should the same apply to Orthodox Jews who refuse to shake hands with female teachers due to their religious beliefs?
 
http://www.eurojewcong.org/switzerland/15240-swiss-jews-oppose-fining-children-who-refuse-to-shake-teachers-hands.html

Not interested and if you pity them then you could always move with them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

1 minute ago, Caps said:

 

Not interested and if you pity them then you could always move with them


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

If you don't want to engage with the issue, why bother to tell us?  Just keep mum.

If you don't want to engage with the issue, why bother to tell us?  Just keep mum.

Yes Dad, I am engaged with the issue, but I am not interested in people who try and appease Muslims. They live in a Western Country, they abide by Western ways and if they don't like it they know where the door is.
If they don't like it they can go somewhere else


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk