British Citizens Who Chose To Go Permanently Abroad

[Robski]

Mmm I had problems posting with quotation brackets. This is from the Original BBC report.

said Dr Sriskandarajah.

"Two-thirds of Britons who leave do so to seek employment abroad - and are replaced by skilled professionals from elsewhere in the world.

"When the going is good, Brits get going."

More emigration expected

But Sir Andrew Green of Migrationwatch UK said

"We now face by far the largest wave of immigration since 1066, even allowing for those who emigrate. This is putting enormous strain on our infrastructure, public services and on social cohesion."

Who left in 2004?.......

40% professional/managerial

25.3% manual/clerical

17.5% retired/carers

9.3% children

7.9% students

And this is from 'mittheimp' last post.

Ok I'll try! Read last paragraph in particular-

Employers interviewed in this research reported relying to a considerable extent on migrant workers, particularly in the low-skill sectors. Employers across all sectors agreed numbers had increased over the past five years. Migrant workers have become an important source of labour, sometimes preferred over domestic (UK) workers, particularly in the agricultural, hotels and catering and low-skill parts of the administration, business and management sectors. Employers believed that businesses would suffer or could not survive without migrant labour. In the high-skill sectors studied – particularly administration, business and management, and finance – migrant workers were less crucial to business than in the low-skill sectors.

http://www.employment-studies.co.uk/summar...p?id=rdsolr0406

Give me time and i'll find more. My point against your argument is (and you don't seem to be getting this!) is that you are not supporting it with any thing! I'm not ignoring your opinion, i'm just trying to argue against because i firmly believe its wrong. You have made no real attempt to substantiate it with anything other than highly generalised xenophobic rants!

And this is my reply.

There you go again with the insults I've already told you my problem is with government policy and the way it is spun, so how is that xenophobic? as for ranting well your previous posts have been quite animated, poorly composed and full of predjudicial language, which if you knew anything about literature or debating speak volumes about you the author.

Anyway fair enough you have found an opinion that would back up your view, but opinion is not fact. What do you know about the group that commissioned the study? are they impartial or independant? the people they are canvassing represent employers.

I will say once again that my original point is that the original report is bias and even this report that you have found would seem to show that there is some spin in the what the original report said, that the Brits leaving are being replaced by highly skilled workers.

And one last time I am not xenophobic, I am a citizen of the world I am very much anti-racist, I believe in social democratic government for all and on an individual basis to be left to do my own thing, sadly these are all ideas that a going the way of the dinosaurs.

I will ask you kindly to please stop trying to pick an argument just for the sake of it.

Edited December 14, 2006 by Robski

[PhilHarries]

I have an opinion and you seem to have a problem with that.

One of the many ironies with opinions such a yours is, that a few generations back one of your ancestors decided to migrate to these islands off the European coast, and you are a direct descendent of countless waves of immigrants now ranting against them.

And now you sort of people migrate to countries like Thailand, whinge against more stringent visa laws, or find their wifes here and bring them back to your islands, and making them immigrants.

But no, it's never you, it is always the others.

Brilliant arguement ColPyat. But why stop there? Lets go way back then we're not Brits, Aussies, Americans, French, Thai etc. We are all born and bred East Africans born within site and sound of the rift valley guv'nor. So we are not bashing Brits on this thread, we are bashing ourselves except for those significant numbers who are bashing the bishop.

I don't see why distant history should have any part in the formation of a persons opinions when they had no influence over that history. Are we saying that a third or fourth generation British citizen of Indian extraction can have no opinions regarding the UKs immigration policy? How far back does a person's bloodline have to go for them to be allowed opinions?

Of course this means Americans, unless native Americans, are not allowed opinions. Sorry guys, that's the way the cooky crumbles.

[somchai jones]

It is a fact that migrants coming into the UK are mainly far more motivated and appreciate the opportunities handed to them in the UK than the white underclass. This is not surprising considering their respective backgrounds. To actually make a huge decision and come and live in a strange and foreign country for the betterment of their family takes guts and should be applauded. Those 'indigenous' Brits living in deprived areas tend to come from generations of underachievement, where there are fewer role models of success, where there are no aspirations to do better than the previous generation. This section of society has always historically blamed immigration for their ills- from the Huguenots arriving in East London in large numbers from 1670 onwards, Russian Jews in the late 19th century to the post war immigration of South Asians and Caribbean to Eastern Europeans today. The fact is however social mobility although difficult from the bottom of the pile is easier (and thus happens more) today than it ever was.

And those blaming immigration for the rise in taxes to cover social security costs are simply wrong. The recent increase in immigration from Poland, Slovakia etc has boosted the economy, filled the jobs nobody wanted (agriculture, cleaners) as well as provided much needed semi-skilled and skilled work in other areas. Also, please note - immigrants from Eastern Europe are not entitled to any benefits for at least a year - so they are obviously coming here to work!

No one is suggesting the UK is a perfect country, and certainly some policies can be improved. But people running the country down on this thread should really take a proper look around them. Yes maybe things are better for you in Thailand - but that's because in economic terms you've moved somewhere from the middle to the upper end of society. And instead of abuse and criticising comments from GH and others - and using the odd anecdote to condemn a nation of 60 million people - perhaps Robski and others could attempt to properly explain what their point actually is other than - "4.4 million Brits living else where must be coz Britain is going to dogs" and "its all them immigrants and third worlders taking our jobs and claiming benefit" which might do for the letters pages of the Sun newspaper but after any kind of analysis doesn't stand up at all!

Good post. Sums it up really.

Very, very sad how immigrants to UK are being blamed for just about everything at the moment.

Whilst listening to a radio talk show yesterday, several callers tried to link the fact that there are immigrants living in East Anglia to the recent spate of prostitute murders there.

Seems to be human nature that if one has a scapegoat available, they'll use it. Currently, immigrants are that scapegoat. Interestingly (or perhaps predictably) though, those Britons who are successful (and thus don't need a scapegoat) don't keep harping on about immigrants.

Another sad fact in the current climate is that in the eyes of the uneducated (i.e. Sun readers) or little Englanders (i.e. Daily Mail readers), the lines between illegal immigrants/refugees/immigrants have become blurred to the extent that they have all been lumped into the same catagory.

Very, very sad.

[Robski]

perhaps Robski and others could attempt to properly explain what their point actually is other than - "4.4 million Brits living else where must be coz Britain is going to dogs" and "its all them immigrants and third worlders taking our jobs and claiming benefit" which might do for the letters pages of the Sun newspaper but after any kind of analysis doesn't stand up at all!

By the way does the Sun have a letters page? I never read it I only look at the pictures, as for the Daily Mail it would have a use if I ran out of toilet paper.

[ColPyat]

How far back does a person's bloodline have to go for them to be allowed opinions?

En contraire - everybody is allowed to have an opinion, regardless how myopic and assinine it is. And the internet is appearantly the ideal vehicle to sprout such.

Excuse me please, but this debate with rather strong anti imigrant slant, expressed by some, on an internet forum mainly populated by westerners who migrated to Thailand, or dream of migrating to Thailand, or get their Thai wifes to migrate to the west does not deserve to go anymore in depth.

He who lives in a glass house shouldn't throw stones.

[Robski]

How far back does a person's bloodline have to go for them to be allowed opinions?

En contraire - everybody is allowed to have an opinion, regardless how myopic and assinine it is. And the internet is appearantly the ideal vehicle to sprout such.

Excuse me please, but this debate with rather strong anti imigrant slant, expressed by some, on an internet forum mainly populated by westerners who migrated to Thailand, or dream of migrating to Thailand, or get their Thai wifes to migrate to the west does not deserve to go anymore in depth.

He who lives in a glass house shouldn't throw stones.

I wasn't going to answer your post the first time, but I will now.

You presume quite a lot.

[wilko]

I feel sorry for the "anti-immigrant" brigade.. They live in a dark world of ignorance,fear, paranioa and anger.

With a posting like this I have to repeat to myself though.....only a fool speaks with a fool

[Robski]

I feel sorry for the "anti-immigrant" brigade.. They live in a dark world of ignorance,fear, paranioa and anger.

With a posting like this I have to repeat to myself though.....only a fool speaks with a fool

[mittheimp]

But Sir Andrew Green of Migrationwatch UK said

"We now face by far the largest wave of immigration since 1066, even allowing for those who emigrate. This is putting enormous strain on our infrastructure, public services and on social cohesion."

Who left in 2004?.......

40% professional/managerial

25.3% manual/clerical

17.5% retired/carers

9.3% children

7.9% students

And this is my reply.

There you go again with the insults I've already told you my problem is with government policy and the way it is spun, so how is that xenophobic? as for ranting well your previous posts have been quite animated, poorly composed and full of predjudicial language, which if you knew anything about literature or debating speak volumes about you the author.

Anyway fair enough you have found an opinion that would back up your view, but opinion is not fact. What do you know about the group that commissioned the study? are they impartial or independant? the people they are canvassing represent employers.

I will say once again that my original point is that the original report is bias and even this report that you have found would seem to show that there is some spin in the what the original report said, that the Brits leaving are being replaced by highly skilled workers.

And one last time I am not xenophobic, I am a citizen of the world I am very much anti-racist, I believe in social democratic government for all and on an individual basis to be left to do my own thing, sadly these are all ideas that a going the way of the dinosaurs.

I will ask you kindly to please stop trying to pick an argument just for the sake of it.

I'm not picking an argument for the sake of it, I feel strongly about this issue and believe some of the posts on here shouldn't go unchallenged - this is after all a forum - a place for debate! If you feel annoyed or insulted that someone has challenged your opinion than i suggest you don't post on forum such as this!

I do however apologise if you find my writing style poor, i've never pretended it to be anything else. Alas we cannot all be blessed with literary genius.

The report I quoted is an independent report by the institute for employment studies. It's findings were not only used by the home office, but also heavily quoted and analysed by all sides of the written media - included the right leaning Telegraph - which didn't dispute its findings. 'Migration Watch' which you have (quite legitametly) used as a counter argument is a well known far right pressure group.

In a previous post you claim that your views seemed to be in the majority on this thread, i suggest you re-read the whole thing and make a tally chart! Maybe then you will reassess the popularity of your opinion.

[Robski]

The report I quoted is an independent report by the institute for employment studies. It's findings were not only used by the home office, but also heavily quoted and analysed by all sides of the written media - included the right leaning Telegraph - which didn't dispute its findings. 'Migration Watch' which you have (quite legitametly) used as a counter argument is a well known far right pressure group.

I think you mean commissioned by the Home Office. I read the link, but left the question of impartiality for you to answer.

And it is a survey of employers.

Otherwise but mostly

[Don Quixote]

Take one example here from a man who lives in Gt Yarmouth . If you had known that town about 20yrs ago and now, you would understand what I am talking about. Other areas of Eastern England have also seen their demographics completely change almost overnight.

Aside from the economic factors we are looking at large significant amounts of cultural upheavel with local populations feeling marginalised.

I don't think we are talking about immigration per se, it is the scale and also the timeframe. For some of the older members of the population it is almost like living in a different world.

Do the people af Pattaya for example not feel this way? Priced out of the housing market etc, farang pushing up the price of everything, all the farang owned bars, travel agents, dive outfits etc.

[GuestHouse]

Having failed misserably, despite a valiant effort, to show any bias in the BBC report - Robski is now asking..

What do you know about the group that commissioned the study? are they impartial or independant?

It seems he's backed off from claiming the IPPR is a 'Government think-tank'. The question is, does Robski know anything at all about the IPPR or is he just ranting on the two saviours of those without evidence

"bias and conspiracy".

But then, what do I know, and if I do know, what ever I say should be diregarded because...."I have a Thai Wife" LOL!

I've got a great idea..

Why don't these guys form a club, get a uniform and a club badge and then spend weekends doing silly walks up and down the high street?

Alternatively they could just get on with their own lives and stop blaming others for their own sad failings.

[Robski]

Having failed misserably, despite a valiant effort, to show any bias in the BBC report - Robski is now asking..

What do you know about the group that commissioned the study? are they impartial or independant?

It seems he's backed off from claiming the IPPR is a 'Government think-tank'. The question is, does Robski know anything at all about the IPPR or is he just ranting on the two saviours of those without evidence

"bias and conspiracy".

But then, what do I know, and if I do know, what ever I say should be diregarded because...."I have a Thai Wife" LOL!

I've got a great idea..

Why don't these guys form a club, get a uniform and a club badge and then spend weekends doing silly walks up and down the high street?

Alternatively they could just get on with their own lives and stop blaming others for their own sad failings.

A suitably bitter little twist at the end there GH.

You and your mate are starting to grow on me, but only in a pseudo-masochistic kind of way.

It's like tag team Robski wrestling! I like this game.

but mostly ZzZzZzZzZzZzZz

[DD18]

It is a fact that migrants coming into the UK are mainly far more motivated and appreciate the opportunities handed to them in the UK than the white underclass. This is not surprising considering their respective backgrounds. To actually make a huge decision and come and live in a strange and foreign country for the betterment of their family takes guts and should be applauded. Those 'indigenous' Brits living in deprived areas tend to come from generations of underachievement, where there are fewer role models of success, where there are no aspirations to do better than the previous generation. This section of society has always historically blamed immigration for their ills- from the Huguenots arriving in East London in large numbers from 1670 onwards, Russian Jews in the late 19th century to the post war immigration of South Asians and Caribbean to Eastern Europeans today. The fact is however social mobility although difficult from the bottom of the pile is easier (and thus happens more) today than it ever was.

And those blaming immigration for the rise in taxes to cover social security costs are simply wrong. The recent increase in immigration from Poland, Slovakia etc has boosted the economy, filled the jobs nobody wanted (agriculture, cleaners) as well as provided much needed semi-skilled and skilled work in other areas. Also, please note - immigrants from Eastern Europe are not entitled to any benefits for at least a year - so they are obviously coming here to work!

No one is suggesting the UK is a perfect country, and certainly some policies can be improved. But people running the country down on this thread should really take a proper look around them. Yes maybe things are better for you in Thailand - but that's because in economic terms you've moved somewhere from the middle to the upper end of society. And instead of abuse and criticising comments from GH and others - and using the odd anecdote to condemn a nation of 60 million people - perhaps Robski and others could attempt to properly explain what their point actually is other than - "4.4 million Brits living else where must be coz Britain is going to dogs" and "its all them immigrants and third worlders taking our jobs and claiming benefit" which might do for the letters pages of the Sun newspaper but after any kind of analysis doesn't stand up at all!

Good post. Sums it up really.

Very, very sad how immigrants to UK are being blamed for just about everything at the moment.

Whilst listening to a radio talk show yesterday, several callers tried to link the fact that there are immigrants living in East Anglia to the recent spate of prostitute murders there.

Seems to be human nature that if one has a scapegoat available, they'll use it. Currently, immigrants are that scapegoat. Interestingly (or perhaps predictably) though, those Britons who are successful (and thus don't need a scapegoat) don't keep harping on about immigrants.

Another sad fact in the current climate is that in the eyes of the uneducated (i.e. Sun readers) or little Englanders (i.e. Daily Mail readers), the lines between illegal immigrants/refugees/immigrants have become blurred to the extent that they have all been lumped into the same catagory.

Very, very sad.

What would be your thoughts on the fact that £100 million was spent last year on translation services for above, this business was worth £400 million last year, plus £280 million was spent on english lessons. Presumably the people requiring any of above could not afford to pay for these services themselves so what is the cost to the taxpayer before such people can begin to contribute to the system.

Would also suspect that the original report was commissioned by government to help bring in the capital gains tax on selling main private residence with an extra percentage if you are not buying another property in UK!

Also the figures regarding people coming in would be fairly inaccurate, figures were given recently on the fact that immigration had 'lost' quite a few, add on those who are not known, then also that they have only just started to record the details of those who have left as per their visas. So only the figures of UK citizens who have informed authorities that they are moving abroad would be more ballpark.

Sorry have not read a newspaper for 30 years, except free one on plane, then only the Independent or Telegraph.

[GuestHouse]

So we have people who live in the UK telling those of us who don't live in the UK, exactly why it is WE chose to leave..... as if WE don't know OUR OWN motivations.

I've learned I need not consider my own motivations, I need only ask Robski why I have chosen to be an expat.

This is wonderful stuff, I only wish Robski et al would go further and explain why, given his dissatisfaction with the Britain of today, he chooses to stay?

What exactly is it that stops him running overseas to escape all the foreigners in the UK??

Edited December 14, 2006 by GuestHouse

[Don Quixote]

I think he came over to Thailand a couple of months ago after realising there was more to life than sleeping in the same bedroom that he had been for the last 38 years.

[Robski]

Grow up Don, funny comment coming from the bloke who PM'd me and said if I had anything to say i should come to Bangkok and say it to his face, 'cos he knows lots of people in BKK.

BTW members he forgot to include his address.

Edited December 14, 2006 by Robski

[Robski]

So we have people who live in the UK telling those of us who don't live in the UK, exactly why it is WE chose to leave..... as if WE don't know OUR OWN motivations.

I've learned I need not consider my own motivations, I need only ask Robski why I have chosen to be an expat.

This is wonderful stuff, I only wish Robski et al would go further and explain why, given his dissatisfaction with the Britain of today, he chooses to stay?

What exactly is it that stops him running overseas to escape all the foreigners in the UK??

Sorry GH can't remember ever jumping to conclusions as to why you choose to live abroad,

but keep up the vitriol the laugh factor is still high....

See you got your other buddy on the tag team now.. it's nice to be the centre of all your attention.

[ThaiLife]

Well ive just had another BBC article sent to me, more this time about....

Thailand: For Britons it's a friendly Asian holiday paradise. But the reality of moving lock, stock and barrel to the other side of the world, has been a lot harder for some of the tens of thousands of expats.

Its at ..... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6176647.stm

TL

[Robski]

Well ive just had another BBC article sent to me, more this time about....

Thailand: For Britons it's a friendly Asian holiday paradise. But the reality of moving lock, stock and barrel to the other side of the world, has been a lot harder for some of the tens of thousands of expats.

Its at ..... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6176647.stm

TL

Bloody h3ll mate not another one! it's gonna take me a week to get over the last one! PEACE.

[Nignoy]

Well ive just had another BBC article sent to me, more this time about....

Thailand: For Britons it's a friendly Asian holiday paradise. But the reality of moving lock, stock and barrel to the other side of the world, has been a lot harder for some of the tens of thousands of expats.

Its at ..... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6176647.stm

TL

Bloody h3ll mate not another one! it's gonna take me a week to get over the last one! PEACE.

Has been a good source for merriment might even move back to Wigan and open a Somtam Pie and mushy peas shop Nignoy

[paulsmithson]

I get so tired of the PC brigade here and the constant accusations of rascism against anyone who show an ounce of regard for his own kind.

I resent Guesthouse constantly saying that all people who have any nationalistic views are people who have been failed in their search for wealth, rich from a guy whose own height of economic achievement seems to be a job ( just over broke ) and the height of whose ambitions is to run a guest house in a third world country. Sorry but that level of achievemnet and ambition surely does not equate to success for me!

My own family was large and poor here in the UK. Fabullous country that it used to be allowed me to advance on merit and industry to levels far beyond his ambitions .

Yes my country is being flooded with cheap labour. demands on all social programmes have accelerated out of all control. The money simply is not available to finance this level of immigration to the UK and our indigenous people are being denied life saving medecines whilst AIDS treatments are being given to people Africa from who have not contributed a penny to the systems here.

Every year thousands of pensioners die of cold and malnutrition thanks to our caring ( NOT) government)

Two members of my own family are unable to work due to disabling illness and one falls into the category of being refused a prescription medecine that would improve his condition and lessen the pain he suffers due to costs!

The mass influx of Europeans from newly joined EEC countries are able to claim government benefits here and some do so readily.

The ones that work usually live 5 or 6 to a room and send the bulk of what they earn home to their families. A commendable attitude yes---But it sure knocks the hel_l out of our balance of payments.

I was lucky. God has been very good to me and I have been a good achiever and saved a considerable sum to nurse me and my sons through the next few generations. Many are not so lucky but are my kith and kin and i worry for them.They have the right to a life too and that does not mean they have to suffer to help the rest of this world.

In the past when i heard people knock the UK I used to defend it and one of the realistic defences was that a man here could go to work in the morning and come home every evening to find his home and family intact.T

hat is no longer the case here due to the governments immigration policies and I predict that the fate of Uk within the next twenty years will be like that of the previously wealthy Labanon of the fifties and ever since torn apart by internal strife.

[wilko]

Actually there's money to be made from the English language ...it's one of our largest unseen exports, and the growth of a home industry is very tempting.

There's also a lot of "us" and "them" mentality here, which is crap. Many of these people are not "Coming in" they ARE in! This is the EU; "they" & "we" are part of it so get used to it....that makes it all "US" by my calculations.

There is no such thing as a permenant culture, no such thing as race so wake up and smell the coffee!

Edited December 15, 2006 by wilko

[kayo]

We are all born and bred East Africans born within site and sound of the rift valley guv'nor. ..........

Er, lads... ?

D'ya reckon they miss us and are having huge debates about where we are in the world, those Tanzanians and that lot?

Or perhaps they still have to work for a living and don't have tie to get into these sorts of debates?

song baht.

[Don Quixote]

Grow up Don, funny comment coming from the bloke who PM'd me and said if I had anything to say i should come to Bangkok and say it to his face, 'cos he knows lots of people in BKK.

BTW members he forgot to include his address.

Knobski, you were the one sending me PMs not the other way round, i had to block you from sending them as you seemed to have such a fixation on me.

Freak

[Robski]

Grow up Don, funny comment coming from the bloke who PM'd me and said if I had anything to say i should come to Bangkok and say it to his face, 'cos he knows lots of people in BKK.

BTW members he forgot to include his address.

Knobski, you were the one sending me PMs not the other way round, i had to block you from sending them as you seemed to have such a fixation on me.

Freak

Not denying it though are you Don.

Yes I PM'd you to use my pseudonym rather than the childish Knobski and see if we could resolve the 'diiference of opinion' we had without resorting to petty name calling.

Go and play with the Bangkok traffic.

Edited December 15, 2006 by Robski

[wilko]

Topic closed...I reckon?????

[Don Quixote]

Actually there's money to be made from the English language ...it's one of our largest unseen exports, and the growth of a home industry is very tempting.

There's also a lot of "us" and "them" mentality here, which is crap. Many of these people are not "Coming in" they ARE in! This is the EU; "they" & "we" are part of it so get used to it....that makes it all "US" by my calculations.

There is no such thing as a permenant culture, no such thing as race so wake up and smell the coffee!

Wilko, the people who are ranting on here about it are the type of losers you can meet in most English pubs on a weekday afternoon. They simply missed the boat, can't compete in a more agressive work arena, are not as good at the job they do as the next man is or are just plain stupid.

The influx of a large foreign work force in to the UK opens up huge potential for the local population to make money, it just seems like Robski and company are to slow to be able to spot these opportunities .

[Robski]

Topic closed...I reckon?????

I wish they would. It hasn't got much to do with the topic anymore.

[Robski]

Actually there's money to be made from the English language ...it's one of our largest unseen exports, and the growth of a home industry is very tempting.

There's also a lot of "us" and "them" mentality here, which is crap. Many of these people are not "Coming in" they ARE in! This is the EU; "they" & "we" are part of it so get used to it....that makes it all "US" by my calculations.

There is no such thing as a permenant culture, no such thing as race so wake up and smell the coffee!

Wilko, the people who are ranting on here about it are the type of losers you can meet in most English pubs on a weekday afternoon. They simply missed the boat, can't compete in a more agressive work arena, are not as good at the job they do as the next man is or are just plain stupid.

The influx of a large foreign work force in to the UK opens up huge potential for the local population to make money, it just seems like Robski and company are to slow to be able to spot these opportunities .

But until they do, on with the sport!

Wilko, the people who are ranting on here about it are the type of losers you can meet in most English pubs on a weekday afternoon. They simply missed the boat, can't compete in a more agressive work arena, are not as good at the job they do as the next man is or are just plain stupid.

I don't see how they can compete in any type of work arena if they're in the pub on a weekday afternoon, surely they'd be too pissed.

Insightful and balanced opinion, that's what I like about you Don. I tell you what else I like about you, your name Donkey Hotee... ha ha do you get it? Donkey Hotee hahaha. Donkey? No? ok well you certainly are making an Ass of yourself, an Ass! geddit? no ok then.

Tell you what then I'll humour you. a bit more.

The influx of a large foreign work force in to the UK opens up huge potential for the local population to make money, it just seems like Robski and company are to slow to be able to spot these opportunities .

As it is kind of on topic, and as you so perceptively pointed out that I am slow, can you please point out these missed

opportunities and huge potentials?

Edited December 15, 2006 by Robski