Trump faces tide of criticism, protests, legal challenges over travel bans

[phantomfiddler]

What about Japan ? They don,t want muslims either, so how come they don,t get all this bad publicity. Muslims have made their bed, and now they must sleep in it !

[ilostmypassword]

41 minutes ago, performance said:

Time for the USA to wake up not stand up. Ask a soldier who lost his arm. You one of many keyboard warriors. It takes a man to repair a raped country.

You mean a country like Iraq?

[craigt3365]

21 minutes ago, performance said:

Any immigrants bleeding the unemployment system and using a nations good will and giving nothing but trouble all deported immediately :) I do not give a toss about the USA. My country's next leader will do exactly that bye bye 

Agreed.  So reform the system.  Knee jerk actions don't solve this complex problem.

[ilostmypassword]

46 minutes ago, phantomfiddler said:

What about Japan ? They don,t want muslims either, so how come they don,t get all this bad publicity. Muslims have made their bed, and now they must sleep in it !

What is this obsession I've seen elsewhere about Japan?  Japan is pretty much against immigration from everybody.

[halloween]

6 hours ago, tezzainthailand said:

At least she had the guts to try and help people and to make the world a better place.  You think Trump is going to stabilise the world ?  He is nuttier than that bloke in North Korea.

Which part of the world is a better place? Certainly not Germany, which is becoming more like the failed states its migrants are from.

[craigt3365]

59 minutes ago, halloween said:

Which part of the world is a better place? Certainly not Germany, which is becoming more like the failed states its migrants are from.

Comparing Germany with Syria would be ridiculous. 

[amykat]

8 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

Hitler made it plain that he hated Jews and mentioned killing Jews in Mien Kompf and other litature. He went on to kill 6 million of them. Comparing Trump to him is hateful, dishonest and utterly ridiculous. Try criticizing something that he has actually done. 

 Hitler didn't ONLY kill 6 million Jews. His legacy is about more than that and we have learned many lessons from him. 

 

You are using a straw man argument and that is a loser. I posted something along these lines months ago and you tried the same thing with me. It is for the simple-minded.

 

He did post many things that Trump has done. Read it again and try thinking more deeply.

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, halloween said:

Which part of the world is a better place? Certainly not Germany, which is becoming more like the failed states its migrants are from.

You mean because of its very low unemployment rate, its high wages,  its very low crime rate, its free university education, universal healthcare, and...? My god, it's a nightmare over there.

[ilostmypassword]

The American Civil Liberties Union broke all its fundraising records this weekend as it became the main group challenging President Donald Trump’s immigration restrictions. The ACLU raised $24,164,691 this weekend from 356,306 online donations after Trump signed the order suspending the country’s refugee program and banning entry into the United States of citizens from seven predominantly Muslim countries. The non-profit organization usually raises $4 million a year from online donations, ACLU Executive Director Anthony Romero said.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/01/30/aclu_received_24_million_in_online_donations_this_weekend.html

And I bet every one of those donations came from George Soros.

Edited January 30, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[alex8912]

4 hours ago, Redline said:

Don't worry about Boston, it is where American democracy started, and they will die before backing down.  If you have lived there, you know.  Trust me on that.

I've lived there for 32 years and still live there  6 months a year just 50 meters off the path( now street) that Paul Revere used to warn the British are coming.  A huge percentage of the Boston protesters are under grad and grad students in the 100+ universities in and around metro Boston.  They are mostly NOT from Boston and they leave after a couple years, some stay a little longer.  Most of them did not vote.  They rarely do!!  They are wealthy and their parents pay 50-60K per year for tuition then pay for books, apt rent, food clothes, often cars etc.  They get tired and they back down.   Nuff said.  

[Ulysses G.]

1 hour ago, amykat said:

 Hitler didn't ONLY kill 6 million Jews. His legacy is about more than that and we have learned many lessons from him. 

 

You are using a straw man argument and that is a loser. 

 

The straw man is falsely comparing the President to one of the biggest mass murderers in history. THAT kind of nonsense is easy to see through for sensible people and ruins any credibility of those using it.

[Jingthing]

 
The straw man is falsely comparing the President to one of the biggest mass murderers in history. THAT kind of nonsense is easy to see through for sensible people and ruins any credibility of those using it.

There are already clear similarities. Even the Pope has noticed.

[jcsmith]

@performance: I'm ex-military myself. Your entitled to your opinion, but your personal experience doesn't match up to the overall numbers in America. I've shown a lot of data in the threads covering this, and those are the facts. Islamic extremists definitely must be stopped, but the vast majority of their victims are other muslims. You can not throw both of them into the same bag.

 

@Ulysses G: Trump has been in office for 10 days. During that time he's implemented the first step of his muslim ban on Holocaust Remembrance Day no less, demoted senior officials on the security council to promote Steve Bannon to the council, declared the media is the opposition, sent his aids out to tell lies. That comes on the heels of a campaign where he floated the idea of making muslims carry around special identification, and his cabinet is filled with anti-muslim extremists who have flat out called the entire religion a vicious cancer, lied about ISIS in Mexico, and said there are "muslim problems". Those are moves right out of the Nazi playbook. It doesn't mean that he will be as bad as Hitler, but he's had 10 days so far, and the early signs aren't promising. You can't stand aside and just keep defending it and giving the guy leeway. 

[jcsmith]

3 minutes ago, nottocus said:

It makes sense. EXtreme vetting to keep scum out and allow legits in = first step into making a safer country

The problem is that this isn't extreme vetting. There was already extreme vetting. Very long processes for refugees to get into the country. This is a ban. It's a ban not only on the bad guys, it's a ban on people from countries like Iraq which have fought alongside U.S. forces, which have proven themselves as reliable allies. By all means, do stringent background searches. That is important. But when you hear stories of people who fought for our interests and have proven their worth being detained at airports that's unacceptable. It's also unacceptable to hear Trump basically say that Christians immigrants are preferred because that is unconstitutional.

Edited January 30, 2017 by jcsmith

[Ulysses G.]

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

There are already clear similarities. Even the Pope has noticed.

 

The Pope was talking about populism in EUROPE. Not Donald Trump.

He said he was withholding judgement on the President when talking about a separate issue. This is dishonest spin and typical of those trying to demonize the man.

[Jingthing]

 
The Pope was talking about populism in EUROPE. Not Donald Trump.
He said he was withholding judgement on the President when talking about a separate issue. This is dishonest spin and typical of those trying to demonize the man.

You're wrong. He was talking about the populist movement in general including trump. He said we need to be careful in general. Including trump.

[Ulysses G.]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You're wrong. He was talking about the populist movement in general including trump. He said we need to be careful in general. Including trump.

 

Nonsense. The Pope was talking about two different things and he did not comment on Trump. He said that is withholding judgement. Trump's enemies have distorted what the Pope actually said.

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/europe/pope-warns-rising-populism-could-produce-new-hilter-n710681

Edited January 30, 2017 by Ulysses G.

[performance]

5 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

America is a country if immigrants.  If you are from the US, guaranteed you have foreign stock.  So yes, we want immigrants.  It's what built the US.  And will continue to do so.

They can continue standing at the airport unable to fly. 

[Jingthing]

 
Nonsense. The Pope was talking about two different things and he did not comment on Trump. He said that is withholding judgement. Trump's enemies have distorted what the Pope actually said.
 
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/europe/pope-warns-rising-populism-could-produce-new-hilter-n710681

Next thing you'll be trying to sell is that trump's movement isn't a populist movement that has great appeal to the white identity crowd. Don't bother replying. Endless loop of dodging reality is tedious.

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.  

[Andaman Al]

59 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Nonsense. The Pope was talking about two different things and he did not comment on Trump. He said that is withholding judgement. Trump's enemies have distorted what the Pope actually said.

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/europe/pope-warns-rising-populism-could-produce-new-hilter-n710681

It must have just been great timing then by the Pope to give his comments straight after Trump gave a populist speech to the USA and most of the world who have a TV in front of them. What an amazing co-incidence. I seem to remember that Meryl Streep did not mention Trump either but you soon jumped on her for who she was talking about. We all knew who she was talking about, just like we all know who the Pope is talking about.

[Scott]

A post violating Fair Use Policy has been removed.  

 

And now a 2nd post violating Fair Use has been removed.   Continue and you will be suspended.   Here's the rule:  

 

14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences.

[Rhys]

Class takes a major AH to united the people ,  impeachment  ?  nahga...

 

[stevenl]

 
Nonsense. The Pope was talking about two different things and he did not comment on Trump. He said that is withholding judgement. Trump's enemies have distorted what the Pope actually said.
 
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/europe/pope-warns-rising-populism-could-produce-new-hilter-n710681

That is NBC's interpretation. But reading what the Pope said, I think he is warning against populism worldwide, including Trump.

sent using Tapatalk

[ilostmypassword]

9 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Nonsense. The Pope was talking about two different things and he did not comment on Trump. He said that is withholding judgement. Trump's enemies have distorted what the Pope actually said.

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/europe/pope-warns-rising-populism-could-produce-new-hilter-n710681

And are Trump's enemies distorting this as well:

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/immigration-border-crisis/pope-francis-donald-trump-building-mexico-wall-not-christian-n520706

or this:

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-calls-it-disgraceful-pope-question-his-christianity-n520841

[kevkev1888]

WOW what a fuss about very little. It's a temporary ban, while better vetting processes are put in place.

 

It has affected a couple of hundred people so far, who have been delayed at the airport, then been cleared to enter. I did hear 2 people deported, but don't know the details on that?

 

It is not a ban on Muslims, hence the huge majority of Muslim countries not affected. The 7 countries are taken from previous studies by the Obama administration, which were highlighted as needing increased vetting. Once this is in place the ban will be lifted.

 

Vetting links to Radical Islamic beliefs, rather than just to terrorism. 

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

13 minutes ago, kevkev1888 said:

WOW what a fuss about very little. It's a temporary ban, while better vetting processes are put in place.

 

It has affected a couple of hundred people so far, who have been delayed at the airport, then been cleared to enter. I did hear 2 people deported, but don't know the details on that?

 

It is not a ban on Muslims, hence the huge majority of Muslim countries not affected. The 7 countries are taken from previous studies by the Obama administration, which were highlighted as needing increased vetting. Once this is in place the ban will be lifted.

 

Vetting links to Radical Islamic beliefs, rather than just to terrorism. 

 

 

Because the vetting process, which is already extremely stringent, isn't good enough?  Evidence?

[craigt3365]

19 minutes ago, kevkev1888 said:

WOW what a fuss about very little. It's a temporary ban, while better vetting processes are put in place.

 

It has affected a couple of hundred people so far, who have been delayed at the airport, then been cleared to enter. I did hear 2 people deported, but don't know the details on that?

 

It is not a ban on Muslims, hence the huge majority of Muslim countries not affected. The 7 countries are taken from previous studies by the Obama administration, which were highlighted as needing increased vetting. Once this is in place the ban will be lifted.

 

Vetting links to Radical Islamic beliefs, rather than just to terrorism. 

 

 

Luckily, this is a ban that seems to be heading nowhere.

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/30/politics/donald-trump-immigration-order-department-of-justice/index.html

 

Quote

 

First on CNN: Justice Dept. will not defend executive order on travel restrictions

 

Acting Attorney General Sally Yates has told Justice Department lawyers not to make legal arguments defending President Donald Trump's executive order on immigration and refugees, according to sources familiar with the order.

 

 

[WaywardWind]

34 minutes ago, kevkev1888 said:

WOW what a fuss about very little. It's a temporary ban, while better vetting processes are put in place.

 

It has affected a couple of hundred people so far, who have been delayed at the airport, then been cleared to enter. I did hear 2 people deported, but don't know the details on that?

 

It is not a ban on Muslims, hence the huge majority of Muslim countries not affected. The 7 countries are taken from previous studies by the Obama administration, which were highlighted as needing increased vetting. Once this is in place the ban will be lifted.

 

Vetting links to Radical Islamic beliefs, rather than just to terrorism. 

 

 

You need to broaden your reading; the WH says 109 people, the CBP says "a couple hundred" were detained on arriving in the US. Some were released, but many were put on the first plane out and deported - even people who were US permanent residents with green cards.

 

Beyond those, there were thousands who learned when they went to airports in their home countries that their visas were revoked, including people scheduled for emergency medical treatment in the US.

 

Do not ever insinuate that this is a minor temporary inconvenience which will be corrected.  People will die because of this order.

Edited January 31, 2017 by WaywardWind

[Scott]

These types of bans create a huge number of problems that affect people in very serious ways.   There are people who are waiting for urgent medical care and have been approved.   Now they will not be able to.   The numbers falling into these types of categories are small, but extraordinarily significant.  For example, a number of years ago, I dealt with a situation where a person needed an organ transplant, with the only available donor was an immediate family member.   It took action through a special humanitarian parole program to get the person admitted.  

 

There are a large number of overseas students whose education will be interrupted.  

 

There are families which will be separated by the ruling.  

 

There will be people with dual nationality who work in the US who will be affected.   

 

The list includes those affected and who are productive and beneficial to the US.   

 

I have worked situations where similar types of actions have happened and in general, there were exceptions for those special circumstances which few people would reject.   That seems to be absent in this ruling.