I am in Thailand and I have inheritance probleme in Switzerland.

[swissmaninthailand]

Hello,

 

I have a problem and as I am in Thailand (Pattaya) I think I will have a faster answer here.

here is my problem: I have a deceased grand mother who died 2 years ago in march 2015 at the age of 101.5.

During the funeral, we( my sister, mother and I) learned she was married to a  Swiss man who is soon 79 years old.(secret marriage)

My grandmother has around 2,8 or 3 millions dollars blocked in a Swiss bank.(in fact it's in Swiss franc but same same)

The testament said nothing about me and my sister. my father is deceased in 2010.the 3 pages testament came out from the pocket of this husband. nothing notarized.

About  the law, if we understand it correctly, its 25% for me and my sister. (12.5% each) and he get 50% plus the 25% that my grand mother can give to who she wanted(total 75% for him ).

 

The problem is that this husband want  give us only 150'000 dollars each.(sister and I)

The notary has calculated 25% and subtracted 500'000 for each of us. I have  called the  notary and she said she follow the number given by the husband. that's all.after this we hired a lawyer.

My grand mother did an insurance life for my father 20 years ago , he received 1 million but at the end, when he died we inherit only 75'000$ each (sister and I)because my father was receiving and spending money every month and at the end,no much was  left..

Now he claimed some other money we received from my father and from my grand mother years ago (before he was married to my grand mother) and he threats us to go to court if we don't accept the 150'000 dollars each.

Our lawyer asked me yesterday if I accept the offer or take the risk to go to court.he has threaten us 2 times  already.

My sister and my mother are freaking out.This man is stuck on this 150000$ offer  and he believes we should get nothing more from our grand mother  . This is already 14 months we are trying to deal with him, and there is no way to change his mind. at a certain point he said he will let us 50'000$ so now I should be very thanks-full if I get 150'000$.

I am in Thailand and I don't understand  why the notary only listen to him.

We have discovered as well that my grand mother stole the inheritance from her fist husband  in 1945 (half of his money should have been given to my father when he turn 18 yo).We claimed some of her money should have been the money of my father and this fake husband  has no right on it. Notary said nothing is valid.

Every time we come with something,notary said it's not valid.

Last day the notary asked us if all accounts of my father were closed before the death of my grand mother  , the bank confirmed it was.and then he  came with same offer, take 150'000 and go away.

 

 

What would you do, what you would answer ?

I m not trolling here, I can post pictures later.

 

 

 

 

[siam2007]

This Forum certainly has zero knowledge about Swiss inheritance laws.

Edited February 12, 2017 by siam2007

[jpinx]

The only certainty in this happy little family scenario is that the lawyers will be very happy to help and charge you plenty.  If you want to seriously contest it - get over there and sit down as a group and come up with a compromise. 

[Swiss1960]

Nobody can answer here. Nobody has seen any last wills, any possible pre-nup / marriage contracts, any info about possible other heirs (from your grand-parents down) and also, knowledge of inheritance laws from 1945 onwards.

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[Hedghog]

What a tangled Web we weave.

Take whatever offer is on the table.

Past history and all.

[henry2109]

Strange question on this forum. -

 

Hire a inheritance lawyer in Switzerland, give him all the relevant document and information, let him figure out additional facts if needed. After that he can advise you on the law, your position, possible steps to do and their chances/risks.

[HampiK]

I would agree with henry2109.

Hire a Swiss lawyer and let him check your situation.

 

Everything else are only assumtions. In my thinking i have learned about 20 years ago about Swiss law is something similar what you already wrote in your first post.

 

[NickJ]

You need to allocate 1000 thousand bank accounts. Profess your true birthright heritage. Then proclaim your wealth to the world. After this is done you can sell our shares 

[swissmaninthailand]

Lawyer say to take what he offers and finish with this story. If I go to court I would have to pay maybe more than what I will receive because lawyer is very very expensive . In Switzerland if you get married only 1 day you can take all pretty much . No law protect family like In Italy. This story put lot of fight in my family as well. Financially I m ok in Thailand. I got money from my father allready. My sister said the same "move on with our life". Anyway this fake husband will die soon and money is useless in hell. He can not take it. I will pee on his tomb. My father and my grandmother were 2 very greedy persons. My grandfather was greedy too and died in pain. My father died in pain few years ago, he was never happy with his money, he wanted more.always more. They all always wanted to get more and more, money is like a decease . I explained to people to look what we have in life and not always wishing to have more.money is good to be comfortable, money become a poison for many people . Anyway...

[LannaGuy]

On 2/13/2017 at 0:14 PM, swissmaninthailand said:

Lawyer say to take what he offers and finish with this story. If I go to court I would have to pay maybe more than what I will receive because lawyer is very very expensive . In Switzerland if you get married only 1 day you can take all pretty much . No law protect family like In Italy. This story put lot of fight in my family as well. Financially I m ok in Thailand. I got money from my father allready. My sister said the same "move on with our life". Anyway this fake husband will die soon and money is useless in hell. He can not take it. I will pee on his tomb. My father and my grandmother were 2 very greedy persons. My grandfather was greedy too and died in pain. My father died in pain few years ago, he was never happy with his money, he wanted more.always more. They all always wanted to get more and more, money is like a decease . I explained to people to look what we have in life and not always wishing to have more.money is good to be comfortable, money become a poison for many people . Anyway...

well your grandmother didn't sort it out and if you don't want to fight just take it - life is too short and you're not getting any younger - good luck

[zorro1]

This Forum certainly has zero knowledge about Swiss inheritance laws.

That would be a first

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[amykat]

This money that you "received years ago, before he was married to your Grandmother, from your Father and her" was that in some way documented to be deducted from a future inheritance??  Or is that just something that he WISHES to happen??  Or something that she complained about in later years, because she was angry?

 

I'm not sure you can gift money and then deduct it from inheritance ...certainly it seems like there would be some formal procedure for this??  Especially money from your FATHER.

 

You need to get clear about this issue. It may not be an legal issue  ...and then get clear about how much the money should be. If it should be $750K-800K to split between you and your sister, then go for that amount.

 

Remember the words here ...they are "take this low amount of $150K now to avoid the RISK of a lawsuit ...or the THREAT to go to court."

 

He doesn't want to do those things either, those cost him money also, he knows you are in Thailand, he might think you are desperate for quick cash and will go for it!!  Most people do.  Just insist on the full amount and wait and wait.   Be calm and don't show any need or impatience. 

 

He thinks he is in the position of power and you think you (he thinks)  you are the weak one ..change this in your mind, and find the way to have some power in this negotiation ..which might just be to show that you don't need this money and you will WAIT. The law isn't always about the law, it is about who negotiates better.

 

Don't cloud the issues, in your mind, or with your lawyers, with old stories about the 1940s and who stole this or that, and who was greedy ...do that with your friends. 

 

Stop trying to CONVINCE him that he should pay YOU more ...he is ASKING YOU to ACCEPT LESS and SIGN right? Say NO.  That to me, means he should pay you the full amount and he will have to convince the court, WHY he should not have to pay that full amount.  Maybe he can't do it.  Maybe he only has a small chance in hell.  Don't talk to him anymore, he is your enemy.  You might just have to pay to show up in court and little else, if it ends up there. He will have the burden to show why he shouldn't pay you and to prepare all of that.

 

These countries like France have this law for a reason ...to make families leave money to heirs without their choice and they are fairly strong laws as far as I know. He got 75% and I think the court would look at that ..he is only a spouse.  You are a blood relative and getting very little.

 

 

 

 

[geriatrickid]

If she was legally married to the gentleman and the money is in Switzerland,

 then the chap can invoke Swiss law and ask for his statutory entitlement of 100%.

 

Why do you expect money from the estate? Did you take care of her? Did she tell you she would leave you anything? You are quick to judge her, but as quick to look for money that really you did not "earn". If she wanted you to have an inheritance because she loved you or valued you, she would have had a will that  made sure you received something.

 

And since no one has pointed it out, the Swiss bank is now obliged to alert all the  heirs implicated  national tax departments and to hold back any taxes due.  No one just inherits money anymore. Their are probate fees to be paid to the province/state/canton etc.

 

You live in Pattaya and  expect a share of some dead lady's estate. Say no more. Say no more.

 

[amykat]

12 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

If she was legally married to the gentleman and the money is in Switzerland,

 then the chap can invoke Swiss law and ask for his statutory entitlement of 100%.

 

Why do you expect money from the estate? Did you take care of her? Did she tell you she would leave you anything? You are quick to judge her, but as quick to look for money that really you did not "earn". If she wanted you to have an inheritance because she loved you or valued you, she would have had a will that  made sure you received something.

 

And since no one has pointed it out, the Swiss bank is now obliged to alert all the  heirs implicated  national tax departments and to hold back any taxes due.  No one just inherits money anymore. Their are probate fees to be paid to the province/state/canton etc.

 

You live in Pattaya and  expect a share of some dead lady's estate. Say no more. Say no more.

 

Gosh, that was quite harsh of you!  Why would you take the side of this spouse?  You don't know anything about him, but he is 20 years younger, seemed to be a "secret marriage" which doesn't sound good ...who says he did a damn thing for this grandmother? Maybe he was some kind of gigolo who married her for her money and was just waiting in the background all of these years and not even with her??  If he was NOT that kind of guy ..he should have some money of his own, he just got a lot of money from her ..he is 80 now ..I am sure they had a home to live in? That isn't pretty good?

 

If you want to argue it, WHY does the man, expect ALL the money of a woman he married at 80 years old?  She had a life before him that was rather long and she had people and family who came before him, did she not??  Is a man not capable of taking care of himself to some extent?  If they got divorced what would he have gotten? We don't know but not 100% that is sure. And if and when he dies, maybe in ONE year ..where will all that money go? To his heirs and totally miss her heirs now!!  There is a REASON for these laws which give money to children and grandchildren no matter what ..this is ONE of the reasons!!

[swissmaninthailand]

Amycat is right , this fake husband has waited for years to get her money . Apparently the law in Switzerland accept that. He even claimed to notary that my sister and I should pay him now money becasue we have received too many gifts. So now we are better off by accepting the 150k that now seem like a little gift or he will sue us and ask money from us.


Our lawyer say he can go back 7 years in the past and calculate how much money we should receive(he can deduct all the gifts and even say money of my father is his money now) . we have received a few gifts from my grandmother before she was married to this guy.
There is no indication at all that the money of my father was his heritage from my real grand father, he claimed my grand mother gave to my father money, and this money is now his money too.
In fact we have nothing written. This is why this guy can claim all now.

So now, should I take the little offer or delay all with a risk he sue me. This guy has nothing to lose, he is old and he want make our life miserable by claiming all.

Someone mention that my grand mother did nothing for us. That s right, she talked nice around her telling we will have 75 percent but in the other hand she married this guy and plot for 3 years against my sister and I. I belive she lied because she was famous for lying and plotting against people. She was a devil woman who could kill for money. (she tried to kill her second husband by setting his bed room on fire at night, it didn't work.)


We believe this fake husband blackmailed my grand mother by telling he will marry another lady and leave her . At 98 or 99 years old she didn't want to lose his" driver" or fake friend , so I think she decided to marry him by fear to finish alone and since this time he managed everything for her and she lost the total Controll.

What is disgusting is my grand mother was in a hospice for old people and this fake friend was just coming once a day to take a coffee with her. He lives just 3km away.

This guy never did anything in his life, it s the kind of loser who stay in his condo all his life, he never had any woman or children. He can not even travel alone because he is scared. He is just interested by money. The next day my grand mother died he called the notary to get his money. He probably called notary twice a week and was upset when he discovered we hired a lawyer. This guy is a blood sucker. He said to my sister "now you are not my problem anymore". When I saw him 3 months later after my grand mother passed away, he didn't look at me. That was expected.

[cooked]

On 12/02/2017 at 0:35 PM, siam2007 said:

This Forum certainly has zero knowledge about Swiss inheritance laws.

Wrong

[cooked]

By Swiss law, how much is distributed to the deceased's mother, father, brothers and sisters, as well as sons and daughters is strictly regulated. The percentage that the black sheep son of the family will receive may be reduced or even done away with, all regulated. This was done years ago (1912) to get rid of the legal proceedings which often went on for years and divided families. Many if not most Swiss don't bother making a will (intestate). I haven't.

If the deceased did make a will it would have been to change the obligatory proportion of the inheritance to a particular person to a maximum or (more frequently) to a minimum or even entirely.

Quoting from https://www.ch.ch/en/succession-what-does-the-law-say/  " If there is no spouse or children, the parents and their issue inherit. If there are no parents or their issue (brothers, half brothers, sisters, half sisters), then the grandparents and their issue inherit. If none of these relatives survives, the entire estate goes to the state. "

That means that grandchildren receive nothing. I am Swiss and I can assure you that all will have been done above board and correctly.

I have always received a prompt answer from the Swiss Embassy in Bangkok, by Email or telephone, why don't you send them a mail to start with?

 

 

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

Why would he offer 150k easily ( if you were not entitled to more). Go back to "Suwissalaan" and get a lawyer. He is stealing from you.


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[thetruth revealer]

On 13.2.2017 at 0:14 PM, swissmaninthailand said:

Lawyer say to take what he offers and finish with this story. If I go to court I would have to pay maybe more than what I will receive because lawyer is very very expensive . In Switzerland if you get married only 1 day you can take all pretty much . No law protect family like In Italy. This story put lot of fight in my family as well. Financially I m ok in Thailand. I got money from my father allready. My sister said the same "move on with our life". Anyway this fake husband will die soon and money is useless in hell. He can not take it. I will pee on his tomb. My father and my grandmother were 2 very greedy persons. My grandfather was greedy too and died in pain. My father died in pain few years ago, he was never happy with his money, he wanted more.always more. They all always wanted to get more and more, money is like a decease . I explained to people to look what we have in life and not always wishing to have more.money is good to be comfortable, money become a poison for many people . Anyway...

Actually you can get in Contact with the corresponding Authorities , in Swiss , because usually its their obligance to contact  Family members which are  possibly beneficiants of somebody passe away and if you can proof your Relationship to your Grandmother they may figure out whats your part granted by Swiss Law.

Are you aible to speak German or any other Official language( Italian or French ) in Swiss ?

[thetruth revealer]

On 20.2.2017 at 0:26 PM, cooked said:

By Swiss law, how much is distributed to the deceased's mother, father, brothers and sisters, as well as sons and daughters is strictly regulated. The percentage that the black sheep son of the family will receive may be reduced or even done away with, all regulated. This was done years ago (1912) to get rid of the legal proceedings which often went on for years and divided families. Many if not most Swiss don't bother making a will (intestate). I haven't.

If the deceased did make a will it would have been to change the obligatory proportion of the inheritance to a particular person to a maximum or (more frequently) to a minimum or even entirely.

Quoting from https://www.ch.ch/en/succession-what-does-the-law-say/  " If there is no spouse or children, the parents and their issue inherit. If there are no parents or their issue (brothers, half brothers, sisters, half sisters), then the grandparents and their issue inherit. If none of these relatives survives, the entire estate goes to the state. "

That means that grandchildren receive nothing. I am Swiss and I can assure you that all will have been done above board and correctly.

I have always received a prompt answer from the Swiss Embassy in Bangkok, by Email or telephone, why don't you send them a mail to start with?

 

 

Embassy usually dont deal with inheritances , but can direct you to the right authorities.