Sweden - not perfect, but not Trump's immigrant-crime nightmare

[webfact]

Sweden - not perfect, but not Trump's immigrant-crime nightmare

By Johan Ahlander and Simon Johnson

REUTERS

 

Children Nor, Saleh and Hajaj Fatema from Syria sleep outside the Swedish Migration Board in Marsta, outside Stockholm, Sweden. Picture taken January 8, 2016. REUTERS/Jessica Gow/TT NEWS AGENCY

 

STOCKHOLM (Reuters) - Bemused Swedes have been defending their record as a low-crime society in the wake of U.S. President Donald Trump's speech in Florida last week in which he appeared to refer to a terrorist attack in Sweden that did not happen.

 

Trump later said he was talking about a Fox News programme highlighting allegedly surging crime statistics in Sweden and linking them to rising immigrant numbers, after a record 163,000 asylum seekers arrived in 2015.

 

On Monday, he tweeted: "The FAKE NEWS media is trying to say that large scale immigration in Sweden is working out just beautifully. NOT!"

 

Swedes have leapt to their country's defence.

 

"Last year there were app 50 pct more murders only in Orlando/Orange in Florida, where Trump spoke the other day, than in all of Sweden. Bad," former Prime Minister Carl Bildt tweeted.

 

Few would argue with the fact that Trump's picture of Sweden is at odds with statistics.

 

Sweden ranked 187th out of 218 countries in 2014 in terms of murders per capita, according to a survey by United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime. The murder rate in the United States, which ranked about 110th, was more than four times higher.

 

The suggestion that the recent rise in asylum numbers has triggered a crime wave appears to have come from media reports rather than from statistics, as Swedish police do not register suspects' ethnic origins, only their gender and age.

 

"There is no basis for drawing the conclusion that crime rates are soaring inSweden and that that is related to immigration," Stina Holmberg at the National Council for Crime Prevention said.

 

The most recent official survey from 2005 does show foreign-born Swedes are more than twice as likely to be suspects in criminal investigations, but their ethnicity is not the main reason for this.

 

"Minorities are often over-represented in criminal statistics, but when you adjust for socio-economic factors, that disappears almost completely," Social and Justice Minister Morgan Johansson said recently.

 

Sweden is nevertheless not the crime-free utopia that some might like to believe.

 

A surge in gang-related violence has pushed up the murder rate in the last couple of years.

 

In the southern city of Malmo, a town just shy of 300,000 people, 12 people were killed last year, according to local media. That was a record and gives it a murder rate per capita three times higher than that of London.

 

In 2013, in the mainly immigrant Stockholm suburb of Husby, around a hundred cars were burned and seven police were injured in five nights of rioting, which spread on a smaller scale to other cities across the country.

 

Emergency services are regularly attacked by stone-throwing youths and on Monday night, rioters in a suburb of the capital battled police and burned a handful of cars.

 

But the violence has clearly not spiralled out of control.

 

"There are no areas where the police don't go," police spokeswoman Johanna Blomqvist said in an email in reply to Reuters questions.

 

And an annual survey of Swedes by the National Council for Crime Prevention shows crime rates broadly unchanged over the last 10 years.

 

Many Swedes do appear to be worried about immigration, however.

 

The anti-immigration Sweden Democrat party, which has called for a big rise in police numbers and tougher sentences for criminals, has surged in popularity and is now vying for second spot in polls.

 

Sweden took in more asylum seekers relative to the size of its population than any other European Union member in 2015. In a backlash, many asylum centres have been targeted by far-right attackers and several have been burned to the ground.

 

Integrating the new arrivals is also likely to be problematic. Segregation, poor schools and unemployment blight the prospects of many young people, often those with immigrant backgrounds.

 

Unemployment among foreign-born Swedes is around 15 percent compared with 5 percent among those born in the country.

 

"Sweden, like many other countries, has many opportunities, but faces many challenges," Prime Minister Stefan Lofven said.

 

(Additional reporting by Daniel Dickson and Johan Sennero; Editing by Hugh Lawson)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-02-22

[webfact]

Sweden probes riot in mainly immigrant Stockholm suburb

 

STOCKHOLM: -- Swedish police have launched an investigation after a riot erupted in a predominantly immigrant suburb of the capital, Stockholm.

 

One officer fired at rioters who threw rocks at police.

 

The unrest in the Rinkeby suburb on Monday night came after police tried to arrest a suspect on drugs charges.

 

It also comes after US President Donald Trump referred to Sweden in a speech on immigration problems, baffling Swedes about a non-existent incident.

 

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39047455

 

-- © Copyright BBC 2017-02-22

[thai3]

An opposing viewpoint to the liberal PC one

 

 

[phantomfiddler]

According to Swedish people that I have talked to, Trump is spot on, and it appears the Swedish authorities and government are just sweeping it under the carpet. Rapes and violent crimes are surging, mainly being done by these "immigrants", and are deliberately being unreported in the media. For "immigrants" read "planned invasion" and the European way of life is going to be destroyed. Thank Buddha for our present haven S.E.Asia :)

[WaywardWind]

1 hour ago, thai3 said:

An opposing viewpoint to the liberal PC one

 

 

Your source for this video is Paul Joseph Watson, an alt right white supremacist editor at Infowars - a notorious alt-right website.

 

If you place confidence in such sources, you really need help.

[WaywardWind]

1 minute ago, phantomfiddler said:

According to Swedish people that I have talked to, Trump is spot on, and it appears the Swedish authorities and government are just sweeping it under the carpet. Rapes and violent crimes are surging, mainly being done by these "immigrants", and are deliberately being unreported in the media. For "immigrants" read "planned invasion" and the European way of life is going to be destroyed. Thank Buddha for our present haven S.E.Asia :)

And the Swedes that I speak with - family members and friends (who actually reside in Sweden and not perched on barstools in Thailand) - tell me it is all overblown hype from right wing anti-immigrant activists.

[Rob13]

3 minutes ago, phantomfiddler said:

According to Swedish people that I have talked to, Trump is spot on

 

Trump would do better look at the source of violence in his own country and let the EU countries take care of themselves. 

[phantomfiddler]

2 minutes ago, WaywardWind said:

And the Swedes that I speak with - family members and friends (who actually reside in Sweden and not perched on barstools in Thailand) - tell me it is all overblown hype from right wing anti-immigrant activists.

How can it be overblown ? Are you suggesting that the violent people shown in the video are actors hired to make a video warping the general public,s view ?

[WaywardWind]

7 minutes ago, phantomfiddler said:

How can it be overblown ? Are you suggesting that the violent people shown in the video are actors hired to make a video warping the general public,s view ?

 It is easy to make a scary video - simply string together a number of violent acts and edit it to make it appear that they are all happening right now...Alex Jones, your source Paul Watson, Infowars, Breitbart, etc. are masters at it.

 

And people lap it up.....

[Traveler19491]

30 minutes ago, phantomfiddler said:

How can it be overblown ? Are you suggesting that the violent people shown in the video are actors hired to make a video warping the general public,s view ?

 

 

No, the fact is that this video was produced by someone with a racist agenda. By the way, RT is owned, operated, and funded by the Russian government...not precisely what I would call "neutral" when it comes to matters in the West (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_(TV_network))

 

38 minutes ago, WaywardWind said:

Your source for this video is Paul Joseph Watson, an alt right white supremacist editor at Infowars - a notorious alt-right website.

 

Edited February 22, 2017 by Traveler19491

[Syduan]

32 minutes ago, WaywardWind said:

 It is easy to make a scary video - simply string together a number of violent acts and edit it to make it appear that they are all happening right now...Alex Jones, your source Paul Watson, Infowars, Breitbart, etc. are masters at it.

 

And people lap it up.....

So you really think it was all made up and not of it is real.. Wake up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfW8XgASiDk

 

[Dustdevil]

1 hour ago, phantomfiddler said:

According to Swedish people that I have talked to, Trump is spot on, and it appears the Swedish authorities and government are just sweeping it under the carpet. Rapes and violent crimes are surging, mainly being done by these "immigrants", and are deliberately being unreported in the media. For "immigrants" read "planned invasion" and the European way of life is going to be destroyed. Thank Buddha for our present haven S.E.Asia :)

I agree, because all you have to do is examine Bosnia. It used to be a moderate Islamic enclave on the outskirts of Europe. Once Bosnia was secured from the Serbs, the Saudis started funding their cruel and unusual punishment--i.e., Wahhabi Islam--in Bosnian schools and mosques. Now Bosnia is like a little Saudi Arabia. The KSA considers Bosnia its initial foothold in Europe. Meanwhile, even in certain parts of North London there are Sharia patrols, long before Trump knew anything about it. A CBS 60 Minutes reporter went there to investigate and it was shown on US television how while she was interviewing the self-appointed muttaween (religious police), they told her to cover her hair! In London! Most Commonwealth people would rather engage in America-bashing than face their Taliban-like problem in their own countries, a tradition that ramped up even in the 1970s, never mind Trump.

Edited February 22, 2017 by Dustdevil

[DM07]

1 hour ago, phantomfiddler said:

According to Swedish people that I have talked to, Trump is spot on, and it appears the Swedish authorities and government are just sweeping it under the carpet. Rapes and violent crimes are surging, mainly being done by these "immigrants", and are deliberately being unreported in the media. For "immigrants" read "planned invasion" and the European way of life is going to be destroyed. Thank Buddha for our present haven S.E.Asia :)

Things like these are called "anecdotal evidence" - I'd rather stick with provable facts!

This is also the reason why eye- witnesses are deemed the most unreliable sources in court cases... 

[stag4]

 

Seems not perfect by any means! Religion of peace again?

SWEDEN’S capital was plunged into chaos on Monday as police were forced to fire at rioters after violence erupted. 

The scenes took place just hours after the country’s Prime Minister, Stefan Löfven, slammed Donald Trump for claiming Sweden was in crisis as a result of its liberal refugee policy.

Stockholm police were forced to fire a shot into the crowd in the hard-hit suburb of Rinkeby, after a mob of around 30 began attacking officers with rocks.

Violence erupted after the police had tried to arrest a wanted person on the subway. 

Sylvia Odin, of the Stockholm police, said: “There was stone throwing and they were placed in a situation where a number of people jointly attacked and threw stones. They felt vulnerable and threatened.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/770010/Police-shoot-rioters-violence-erupts-no-go-zone-PM-denies-Sweden-crisis

 

 

[Enoon]

2 hours ago, phantomfiddler said:

According to Swedish people that I have talked to, Trump is spot on, and it appears the Swedish authorities and government are just sweeping it under the carpet. Rapes and violent crimes are surging, mainly being done by these "immigrants", and are deliberately being unreported in the media. For "immigrants" read "planned invasion" and the European way of life is going to be destroyed. Thank Buddha for our present haven S.E.Asia :)

 

And if the Swedish people you have been talking to are of a similar demographic to a depressingly high % of my fellow British that I have the misfortune to encounter (aged, ignorant, xenophobic,lower middle class, demi-nazis) their comments are entirely predictable.

 

Thailand beckons all too many Europeans of a similar ilk.

 

It is, for them, what South America was for the full-nazis post WW2.

 

[Enoon]

1 hour ago, Syduan said:

So you really think it was all made up and not of it is real.. Wake up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfW8XgASiDk

 

 

And you people just lap it up.

 

[stag4]

 

More from the Express

SWEDISH police have made an urgent plea for citizens to assist them in solving serious crimes amid a spike in violence.

Officers in the city of Malmö have struggled to cope with a surge of serious crimes including dozens of attempted murders, beatings, rapes and other offences – and have now been forced to admit: “We cannot do it on our own”.

Malmö police chief Stefan Sinteus called for locals to come forward with testimonies testimonies in a bid to help police catch suspects.

 

 

[Enoon]

1 hour ago, Dustdevil said:

I agree, because all you have to do is examine Bosnia. It used to be a moderate Islamic enclave on the outskirts of Europe. Once Bosnia was secured from the Serbs, the Saudis started funding their cruel and unusual punishment--i.e., Wahhabi Islam--in Bosnian schools and mosques. Now Bosnia is like a little Saudi Arabia. The KSA considers Bosnia its initial foothold in Europe. Meanwhile, even in certain parts of North London there are Sharia patrols, long before Trump knew anything about it. A CBS 60 Minutes reporter went there to investigate and it was shown on US television how while she was interviewing the self-appointed muttaween (religious police), they told her to cover her hair! In London! Most Commonwealth people would rather engage in America-bashing than face their Taliban-like problem in their own countries, a tradition that ramped up even in the 1970s, never mind Trump.

 

And the state puts them away.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/dec/06/muslim-vigilantes-jailed-sharia-law-attacks-london

 

And will do again if they try it on.

 

You have never actually "examined" Bosnia have you? 

 

You're just repeating bits of this and bits of that, anything that you've seen in your favourite newspaper or on the "telly" and fits your prejudice. 

 

The same sort of "examination" that 95% of people use to understand the world.

 

 

[alocacoc]

Latest news from Stockholm.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39047455

 

And look what at France.

 

 

[Syduan]

50 minutes ago, Enoon said:

 

And you people just lap it up.

 

And people like you prefer to ignore it.

[boomerangutang]

Trump is like the effluent that comes out of a Hippo's butt:  His tail scatters it around as far as possible.  Unfortunately, Sweden was close to the Hippo's rear, but it's only manure - it washes off with water.

[puck2]

Trump later said he was talking about

a Fox News programme highlighting allegedly surging crime statistics in Sweden and linking them to rising immigrant numbers, after a record 163,000 asylum seekers arrived in 2015. ...

 

Regardless whether the content of Trump's comment is true, half-true(5555) or wrong, for me it's unbelievable and at the same time terrifying that the president of the USA refers to an unofficial, extreme and very biased source of information, the Fox news. That's the same as if Boeing would rely on the technical skills of some right-wing TV-members.

 

Horrible and unbelivable at the same time. Assuming this „information“as a reality is already astonishing. But twittering - this means officially acknowleding that he, Trump, is the most unfit president, a symbol of a complete stupidity. Everybody with a little bit of intelligence would be ashamed giving such an excuse. Imagine these chanel would show a (fabricated) story about a Chinese plan to attack the US. Then this psychopath wouldn't hesitate to press the „A-“bottom.

 

One day later the POTUS would argue “I saw it on FOX.“

[currynamnam]

Last night on Swedish tv 1 (state channel)  even reknown criminology professor Leif GW Persson admitted that the proportion of immigrants and refugees comitting the hardcore crimes such as robbery,rapes,drugs was significant. 

He suspected the reason for the Government to hide those facts is the fear that this issue will be vital in the 2018 elections.

Leif GW Persson is as far from alt right,  demi nazi you could possibly come.

I don't remember the name, but a fieldmarshal once said..."a country always has an army. It's own... Or someone elses." 

[Wallander4]

Sweden : Suicide by ME migrants

[Srikcir]

Trump has access to the most powerful intelligence agencies in the world through the NSA and CIA to get the facts about Muslim/immigrant violence in Sweden. As POTUS being correct in public statements concerning activities happening in foreign countries, especially US allies, is critical to the security of Americans. Yet he chooses FOX as his source of information. Hopefully McMasters and Tillerson can soon get Trump under control to lead responsibly.

[Retiredandhappyhere]

The majority of my neighbours in my village in Thailand are from Sweden and most go back home on a regular basis. either short or long-term   All those I have spoken to are horrifiied about what has happened to their country over the past few years and are fearful for the future.  Many do not like Trump but feel that he has the right attitude towards this problem, as otherwise today's troubles will soon escalate out of control.

[zaZa9]

The Swedes I know here in Phuket ( both long term and yearly holiday makers ) appear to  loathe Trump but have claimed for some time  and previous to his Presidency that the current Immigration program in their country is a disastrous exercise.

The 'volume' of immigrants seems the biggest complaint.

Most site their countries supremely generous welfare program , particularly in   housing allowances , as the main motivator for Immigrants arrivals , and most say they cant complain at the volume or backgrounds  of the arrivals for fear of being labelled 'racists'.

Many claim there does exist  'no go areas'  for Police , and all say there  are now suburbs that one would risk a beating for entering.

 

My observations from the above comments on this board  is that if the Swedish government refuses to collect demographics with regard to violence or attacks , then it is perfectly in the dark when it comes to confirming OR denying the existence of ethnic or religious based issues in its country.

 

I did see this report by Australian 60 minutes recently .

One may learn something from it ...

 

 

 

 

[bumling]

14 hours ago, WaywardWind said:

And the Swedes that I speak with - family members and friends (who actually reside in Sweden and not perched on barstools in Thailand) - tell me it is all overblown hype from right wing anti-immigrant activists.

Are they living in Thailand,or are they lefties.I live in Sweden,and Trump are telling the truth about media,and the crime situation here,end of discussion.

[balo]

In Norway and Sweden what we fear most are right wing activists like Breivik in 2011 who killed 80 people .  Most refugees are happy in Scandinavia , if they are allowed to stay . 

 

I consider Trump a racist so he is right up there with Breivik . 

 

 

[simple1]

4 hours ago, zaZa9 said:

The Swedes I know here in Phuket ( both long term and yearly holiday makers ) appear to  loathe Trump but have claimed for some time  and previous to his Presidency that the current Immigration program in their country is a disastrous exercise.

The 'volume' of immigrants seems the biggest complaint.

Most site their countries supremely generous welfare program , particularly in   housing allowances , as the main motivator for Immigrants arrivals , and most say they cant complain at the volume or backgrounds  of the arrivals for fear of being labelled 'racists'.

Many claim there does exist  'no go areas'  for Police , and all say there  are now suburbs that one would risk a beating for entering.

 

My observations from the above comments on this board  is that if the Swedish government refuses to collect demographics with regard to violence or attacks , then it is perfectly in the dark when it comes to confirming OR denying the existence of ethnic or religious based issues in its country.

 

I did see this report by Australian 60 minutes recently .

One may learn something from it ...

 

 

 

 

The 60 minutes event was a setup by Swedish right wing anti immigration activist.

Edited February 22, 2017 by simple1