Where Does My Wife Stand?

[Tony Montana]

Having a complete nightmare at the moment here the UK.

My wife has just cleared off with a 24yr old guy,to the other side of the country,with our 2 kids she wont allow me proper access but I'm giving her money & playing ball.

Her stupid mistake is that her settlement visa is expired,about 6 months,she keeps threatening me with false accusations of rape & me attacking her with a knife etc if I dont do her visa.The guy hasn't once offered to pay for the visa,& frankly why should I lie to the home office for her.The kids are also on Thai passports but I've done everything legal so they would be entitled to have British passports.The question being would she be able to get a new visa if this guy sponsored her? The second question being can I put an embargo on the kids going to Thailand if I get them British passports? Basically what are her options & what are mine?

Please dont give me the comments about me being a mug etc,there's been enough hurt in all of this,so if you are a keyboard ninja please dont bother,useful infomation & experience's would be appreciated.

[chuchok]

Do a local search under "International Parental Kidnapping" I imagine that UK laws are similar to NZ.If one parent takes the kids without permission,then it is deemed as kidnapping.

Better still, talk to a decent lawyer.

[Mahout Angrit]

Having a complete nightmare at the moment here the UK.

The question is what do YOU want to do, do you want her back in Thailand with or without the kids, do you want her to stay in the UK. Do you want the kids with you and her in Thailand. Once you decide you clearly need to speak to a lawyer in UK about how you stand with regard to the kids. You could easily get the children registered as British subjects if you, the father, is British and have the birth certificates etc.

Her leave to remain in UK was given based on what you told the embassy and YOUR relationship. If that relationship has broken down she is not going to get Indefinite leave or further leave to remain and hence will have to return to Thailand or stay illegally. FLR is not transferrable.

I guess there could be a complication if she is the mother of British kids and then could be allowed to stay

However if she can prove violence and abuse then she could be allowed to stay.

I would think any accusations about abuse and rape would have to backed up with police reports to have any weight but I think you need to tell it all to a lawyer and if you decide you want her in Thailand to the immigration.

Just my thoughts, there will be experts on this forum so Good Luck, as you say a nightmare.

Edited December 15, 2006 by Mahout Angrit

[Tony Montana]

She said she would let me see the kids every other weekend & now we're at that weekend she wont allow me to see my children.Its hard to be nice to somebody who is being so unreasonable & unfair & basically very selfish.

[GU22]

She hasn't got any chance of getting any form of leave to remain without your help, unless she can prove she is the victim of domestic violence by you. As already said, unless she reported any incidents to the police when they happened, or shortly after she left you, then she will find it very difficult to convince the Home Office that she is telling the truth.

As her settlement visa expired 6 months ago, she is in the country illegally anyway. I think that even were she still with you her only option is to return to Thailand and start the settlement process all over again.

If you were to decide to help her get her status regularised by lying on any application then you would be guilty of perjury and if this was discovered then you could end up in prison.

With regard to the children, in order to sort out custody, maintenance, access etc. you need to speak to a solicitor. Do so now.

[the scouser]

Generally speaking, it is the mother who is regarded as being the responsible parent, unless the father registered the birth, when both parents have equal rights. However, you may be able to make the children wards of court, in which case, they theoretically can't be removed from the court's jurisdiction, i.e. the UK.

Your wife is unlikely to qualify for leave in any other capacity, but once the children have lived for 7 years in the UK, the Home Office would allow her to stay.

If you want your wife removed from the UK, you can either report her to the Immigration Service or call the police, but any such process is likely to be lengthy and they are unlikely to detain her as she has two young children who are British (the Immigration Service can't detain Brits, for obvious reasons).

[Tony Montana]

Generally speaking, it is the mother who is regarded as being the responsible parent, unless the father registered the birth, when both parents have equal rights. However, you may be able to make the children wards of court, in which case, they theoretically can't be removed from the court's jurisdiction, i.e. the UK.

Your wife is unlikely to qualify for leave in any other capacity, but once the children have lived for 7 years in the UK, the Home Office would allow her to stay.

If you want your wife removed from the UK, you can either report her to the Immigration Service or call the police, but any such process is likely to be lengthy and they are unlikely to detain her as she has two young children who are British (the Immigration Service can't detain Brits, for obvious reasons).

The children are still on Thai passports,so theoretically they are Thai citizens,the reason I never got them British passports was because there was no need to,my wife couldn't travel & the only place we travelled to was Thailand.Does this have any impact on this case & can she apply for British passports without my cooperation?

I'm playing ball in all of this paying maintanence & allowing her to keep my childrens location & schools a secret from me,also my family have no knowledge of her whereabouts.

[Mahout Angrit]

can she apply for British passports without my cooperation?

Can she provide the necessary information and documents required to do so without your cooperation?

For what you need if you had registered at the British Embassy in Thailand see

http://www.britishembassy.gov.uk/servlet/F...d=1068717512679

Similar must be required if you register now you're in UK.

Or have you registered them and just not applied for passports?

Does this have any impact on this case

If your children are Thai (and not British) then they could be deported together with your wife if thats the way you wanted it as they are all presumably overstaying their Visa.

Edited December 16, 2006 by Mahout Angrit

[the scouser]

Are you the father of the children, or are they your step-kids? Were they born in the UK? If they were born in Thailand, what is their status now and how long have they been in the UK?

Scouse.

[Tony Montana]

Are you the father of the children, or are they your step-kids? Were they born in the UK? If they were born in Thailand, what is their status now and how long have they been in the UK?

Scouse.

The kids are mine 100% & they were born in Thailand.They are on settlement visa's because at the time it was quicker to get them in the UK via this avenue.We have the birth certificates etc but like I said before I didn't get them British passports because there was no need to.They have been in the UK for two & half years.

[Mahout Angrit]

We have the birth certificates etc but like I said before I didn't get them British passports because there was no need to.

Are these Thai or British birth certificates or do you have both. I stand to be corrected but if you have British birth certificates already then the children must surely already be British nationals as well as Thai nationals (Dual citizenship) even if they don't have British passports.

[Tony Montana]

We have the birth certificates etc but like I said before I didn't get them British passports because there was no need to.

Are these Thai or British birth certificates or do you have both. I stand to be corrected but if you have British birth certificates already then the children must surely already be British nationals as well as Thai nationals (Dual citizenship) even if they don't have British passports.

No they are Thai birth certificates.

[the scouser]

On the assumption that you were born in the UK and you were married to the children's mother at the time of their births, they will be automatically British and cannot be removed from the UK. Whereas your wife is in the UK unlawfully, the chances of the Home Office kicking her out are remote when her two children are British citizens.

Scouse.

[Tony Montana]

On the assumption that you were born in the UK and you were married to the children's mother at the time of their births, they will be automatically British and cannot be removed from the UK. Whereas your wife is in the UK unlawfully, the chances of the Home Office kicking her out are remote when her two children are British citizens.

Scouse.

I dont want her kicked out of the country,I might stop the children from leaving the country.This will be very difficult for her because she is desperate to go home for a visit.

Thanks for all the advice guys.Want to do the right thing but very difficult when somebody is stopping you from seeing your own flesh & blood,I dont know what school the kids are in & my family have no access to their own grandkids etc.

Edited December 16, 2006 by Tony Montana

[Mahout Angrit]

I dont want her kicked out of the country,I might stop the children from leaving the country.This will be very difficult for her because she is desperate to go home for a visit.

You must definitely see a lawyer with regard to access to the children etc. She can go home without problems as her Visa wont be checked by immigration when she leaves and her overstay wont be detected but she wont be able to get back in UK with an expired Visa.

Wont she leave the kids with you while she goes and you tell her "no problem dear, see you when you get back"???? ..... Good luck whatever you do.

Edited December 17, 2006 by Mahout Angrit

[GU22]

She can go home without problems as her Visa wont be checked by immigration when she leaves and her overstay wont be detected but she wont be able to get back in UK with an expired Visa.

Probably wont be checked, they do sometimes do spot checks, I believe.

If she were to return to Thailand, then it will be difficult for her to get another UK visa as she would have to explain the gap between her spouse visa expiring and the entry stamp into Thailand.

Edited December 17, 2006 by GU22

[the scouser]

Even if she did encounter an IO on departure, there would be no great hassle: after all, the IO is hardly going to prevent an overstayer from leaving. A few details would be taken and a report submitted to the Home Office for information purposes. She would, however, find it difficult to get a visa to return and if she were going to take the children to Thailand for a holiday, who would bring them back (if that was the intention) if their mother were unable to return?

Scouse.

[LaReina]

Try and record her threats of rape and violence if over the phone and keep any email records. If I am not mistaken blackmail is against the law, and any records will also protect you from false prosecution.

[rikpa]

She said she would let me see the kids every other weekend & now we're at that weekend she wont allow me to see my children.Its hard to be nice to somebody who is being so unreasonable & unfair & basically very selfish.

This is an ugly situation--one I've had to deal with myself this past year. The best thing to do is go to a lawyer immediately, or you could very well end up losing your kids. Seriously, time is of the essence here. Also, did she abandon the marital residence? If yes, at least in the USA, it is a bad idea to be the one to abandon the residence if you want to keep your kids.

Really, this is a situation where you need a solicitor to look out for your interests. Screw your wife's feeling at this point: she has effectively declared war on you, and this is now combat, pure and simple. It is no longer a marriage, or a friendship, or anything other than a zero-sum battle where everybody loses, the only question is by how much, and do you want to be the one to never see your kids again?

That may sound very harsh and cynical, especially if you still have feelings for her, but it is 100% realistic and the most probable scenario given what you have so far said. This is the time to be as cold and calculating as possible, and to not let emotions run you (though this is much easier said than done), and most important, to remember your ex is truly your mortal enemy, who will quite likely try every deceitful and underhanded trick in the book to get what she wants. The accusations of abuse and deliberately withholding visitation with your kids are a perfect example of what I am talking about. This can and will only get worse if she thinks it in her interest, to the point she could abscond with the kids to Thailand. In the USA you can get a block put on chidren's passports that prevent them from leaving the US, not sure if you can do this in the UK, but if you can, do it immediately! Anyone who acts this way will stop at nothing to get what they want, so please be prepared for things to get worse. There is no point in being the chump here.

If I were in your shoes I'd make sure to get the woman booted for this. Lying about abuse (presuming she is) and withholding visitation from your kids is pure evil, and she deserves to be kicked not only to the curb, but out of the country.

This is coming from someone who prefers peace and harmony and all that stuff above all else too--however, this is not the time and place for feel-good nonsense, as the stakes are just too high with your two kids involved.

[Tony Montana]

I will keep you posted & I will also let you know what the final outcome is.Thanks for all the advice & comments,maybe raised more questions then answers.

Patience is the only thing here,she needs me,whether she likes it or not.I will let her dictate terms & conditions & maybe she will hang herself,give enough rope.At the moment she is very angry with me because I told her new boyfreind about all the skeletons in the closet & there are quite a few.She said I could see the kids Saturday & in the future access wouldn't be a problem.Sorry to disapoint John Wayne there but world war 3 is not the answer.It might come to that but at the moment I'm going to stay cool,calm & focused just like a tiger.

Again thanks for your thoughts.

[Tony Montana]

Well I've touched base with a good lawyer,she seems a bit of a dragon but you dont want somebody nice,if she's off with me whats she going to be like when she fights my case.

I've also sent the wife's passport back to the home office with a covering letter telling them everything she has done,It was a difficult thing to do. I'm not doing it out of spite but she has to be taught a lesson about taking responsibility for her actions,anyway its not my problem anymore,the other guy will have to take care of her.

I'm just wondering if I can stop the kids from leaving the country with out my permission,the lawyer is not quite sure at this moment because the children are on Thai passports.Also what lies in store for my wife?

She did let me see the children Saturday & I have got them for 4 days from the 27th,the guy seems ok,very young & seems a little green.All my wife's Thai freinds seem to think she doesn't love this guy & everybody seems to think she is taking advantage of him.Its a lot to take on 2 kids & a older Thai woman but I suppose time will tell.Anyway I've washed my hands of her now but I'm concerned for my children,will she keep going to new pastures everytime things are not 100%.Well like I said time will reveal all!

[the scouser]

Discuss with your lawyer the possibility of making the children wards of court. I don't think that the child's nationality is relevant to such applications, and, regardless of this, your kids would appear to have an underlying entitlement to British citizenship: that they don't have British passports, doesn't negate the fact that they are British. Alternatively, you may wish to discuss with your lawyer the possibility of seeking custody of the children.

Your wife is in the UK unlawfully, and may be subject to deportation proceedings. However, any such process is going to be long and involved, especially because of the presence of the children. If you make the kids wards of court, which would prevent them from being taken outside of the UK without the court's permission, this might indirectly assist your wife's situation, as the Home Office would not be able to use its usual line that in sending your wife back to Thailand, they are not separating her from her children as they can travel with her.

Scouse.

[Mahout Angrit]

I'm just wondering if I can stop the kids from leaving the country with out my permission,the lawyer is not quite sure at this moment because the children are on Thai passports.Also what lies in store for my wife?

You could start proceedings to register them as British, as Scouse says the passport is only a travel document and not important. Get the nationality sorted.

All my wife's Thai freinds seem to think she doesn't love this guy & everybody seems to think she is taking advantage of him.

So why has she gone? she was big enough to take her kids with her, was she desperate to go simply anywhere?

but I'm concerned for my children

Could you look after them alone in UK if she was deported without them?

This case is really unusual as most Thai women know from the grapevine within hours of arrival in UK exactly how long they have to stay to get ILR if that was their intention.

As a matter of interest, if the home office has her passport and you dont know where she is how are they going to contact her, return her passport and deal with her?

Anyway good luck and keep us up to date.

Edited December 26, 2006 by Mahout Angrit

[paully]

If you want to get tough and you want to see the kids/have them with you, you need to apply to court for a Contact Order or Residence Order (under Section 8 of the Children's Act 1989). If a Residence Order is granted, your wife won't be able to take the kids abroad without your consent or that of the court. You could also apply for a Prohibited Steps Order (under the same Act) to prevent her from taking the kids back to Thailand. Proceedings can be expedited if you have reason to believe that she will leave the country imminently. She can obviously retaliate by filing for a divorce plus a maintenance order against you but, of course, her immigration status is uncertain. The children court proceedings can, of course, be used as a basis for her to remain here until their conclusion. Court proceedings won't be cheap if you have decent family lawyers to represent you, but it may be the best way

Edited December 26, 2006 by paully

[Tony Montana]

I'm just wondering if I can stop the kids from leaving the country with out my permission,the lawyer is not quite sure at this moment because the children are on Thai passports.Also what lies in store for my wife?

You could start proceedings to register them as British, as Scouse says the passport is only a travel document and not important. Get the nationality sorted.

All my wife's Thai freinds seem to think she doesn't love this guy & everybody seems to think she is taking advantage of him.

So why has she gone? she was big enough to take her kids with her, was she desperate to go simply anywhere?

but I'm concerned for my children

Could you look after them alone in UK if she was deported without them?

This case is really unusual as most Thai women know from the grapevine within hours of arrival in UK exactly how long they have to stay to get ILR if that was their intention.

As a matter of interest, if the home office has her passport and you dont know where she is how are they going to contact her, return her passport and deal with her?

Anyway good luck and keep us up to date.

Things havn't been good between us for a while now,she's been lying,cheating & basically being deceitful.The guy is obviously in love & has dangled lots of carrots in front of her ie-nice long trip to Thailand,brandnew house & at present he's willing to do anything it takes,like taking on the kids etc.I havn't harmed her or threatend to harm her in all of this & the children were happy with school etc.

Regarding her contact with the home office,well that is not my problem,I suppose she will have to contact the home office enquiring about her passport,visa etc.

I dont want to take the children from their mother,simple as that.

[the scouser]

As things stand, if your wife goes to Thailand on holiday, she ain't going to get back in to the UK: in fact, without a valid visa, she isn't even going to get as far as getting on the aircraft at Suvarnabhumi. On the assumption that she will have taken the kids with her, who's going to bring them back to the UK, or are they just going to have to stay in Thailand with their mother?

Scouse.

[Tony Montana]

As things stand, if your wife goes to Thailand on holiday, she ain't going to get back in to the UK: in fact, without a valid visa, she isn't even going to get as far as getting on the aircraft at Suvarnabhumi. On the assumption that she will have taken the kids with her, who's going to bring them back to the UK, or are they just going to have to stay in Thailand with their mother?

Scouse.

As it stands she cant go anywhere because she hasn't got her passport in her pocket,so she cant go anywhere.I dont know what the homeoffice will do,hence me being on this forum seeking peoples knowledge with experience on these matters.Like I said this is not my problem anymore,I've wasted enough time,money & energy on this lady,anybody with half a brain would make sure they had there passport in there back pocket before running off.I suppose he will have to get a lawyer to try to obtain the visa for her.The kids can stay with me if she has to go back to Thailand to obtain a visa,she's had a number of choices on this issue but she's choose to make life difficult for herself.My sister offered to pay & assist to get her visa but I stopped this because she started to say nasty comments about my family.If you choose to start a new relationship with somebody else surely its best to end your current relationship before doing so.She is still threatening me with 'you can never see children again' etc.Everybody has moved on & everybody is only interested in the children & not my wife's agenda,actually she is behaving like a child & becoming rather boring.I will do what ever it takes to make sure the kids have a good education & if I have to collect them from Thailand I will do so,like I said I'm the father & I will take full responsibility for my children,what ever my wife chooses to do.

[Mahout Angrit]

I dont want to take the children from their mother,simple as that.

Well Tony if you dont want the mother and children separated then in view of the fact that she's illegal and you've pointed this out to the home office, if the home office want to send her back you dont want any wards of court to prevent the children going with her. She cannot now return to Thailand for holiday as she has no passport (unless she claims to have lost it and renews it) so as I see it you can only now sit back and wait. As has been already said if she is sent back to Thailand you can guarantee her new beau will struggle getting her back to UK it will be extremely difficult and time consuming for him.For a start she would have to be divorced before he could start to apply to get her back himself.

Good luck to you and let us know what happens.

[Tony Montana]

Hi all

I've had the kids for some of the festive season which was good but still had to meet in Mcd carpark.I've been nice to everybody including him but my wife still makes threats & is alway's being confrontational.The good news is that any feelings I did have for her & now dead.

I'm now thinking that if my wife was sent back to Thailand & she took the kids with her. What would be my chance's I've taking her to court in Thailand & winning custody of the kids & taking them back to the UK with me to live?

Now would this be the person who had the most money who would win,which is often the case in Thailand or would the court take side's with the Thai mother?

[mouse]

Hi all

I've had the kids for some of the festive season which was good but still had to meet in Mcd carpark.I've been nice to everybody including him but my wife still makes threats & is alway's being confrontational.The good news is that any feelings I did have for her & now dead.

I'm now thinking that if my wife was sent back to Thailand & she took the kids with her. What would be my chance's I've taking her to court in Thailand & winning custody of the kids & taking them back to the UK with me to live?

Now would this be the person who had the most money who would win,which is often the case in Thailand or would the court take side's with the Thai mother?

Wait until she is back in Thailand without the lifestyle she grew accustomed to and then make a one time financial offer to gain full custody of the kids. Also explain how they would benefit with a better education etc. I would even go as far as offering her a monthly stipend to be cooperative in this matter. Do not (under any circumstances) go to see her in Thailand, just contact her and make the offer. Money talks ...........

Once in Thailand, her chances of returning to the U.K. are slim to none, although I am a Yank, but, from reading what the English guys go through to get their women home, I would think this to be the case.

Good Luck to you!!

For the rest of you reading this ...... my advise is that if not married make a preneptual and for those married do a separation contract, updated after each and every child. It might work...it might not, but, it will allow you to sleep tight.