Lindsay Murdoch

 

Half a century after United States B-52 bombers dropped more than 500,000 tonnes of explosives on Cambodia's countryside Washington wants the country to repay a $US500 million ($662 million) war debt. The demand has prompted expressions of indignation and outrage from Cambodia's capital, Phnom Penh.

 

Over 200 nights in 1973 alone, 257,456 tons of explosives fell in secret carpet-bombing sweeps – half as many as were dropped on Japan during the Second World War. The pilots flew at such great heights they were incapable of discriminating between a Cambodian village and their targets, North Vietnamese supply lines – nicknamed the "Ho Chi Minh Trail."

 

read more http://www.smh.com.au/world/fury-in-cambodia-as-us-asks-to-be-paid-back-hundreds-of-millions-in-war-debts-20170311-guvxyp.html

$US500 million ($662 million)

What does this mean?

13 minutes ago, maoro2013 said:

$US500 million ($662 million)

What does this mean?

Australian publication so $662 would be Aussie dollars?

19 minutes ago, maoro2013 said:

$US500 million ($662 million)

What does this mean?

It means the US is on the brink of A huge financial crash.

 

There must be a complex back story to this.

 

Why is this news now?

Is this US policy for all its nation debtors?

Is this related to Cambodian/Chinese closeness?

How has the debt been dealt with in the intervening 43 years?

 

Without all this information and much more, the story is reliant on emotional rather than reasoned arguments.

So have I got this correct.  we know that the North Vietnamese were using the trail through Cambodia as a re-supply line for the VC fighting in the south.  Prior to this the Americans took over the war , voluntarily where the French had left off.

 

In order for the Americans to attempt to stop that re-supply route they voluntarily dropped millions of bombs on Cambodia. Did the Cambodian government at that time request their country to have the shit bombed out of it ?  Moving on to present day this article is now claiming that the US want the costs refunded that they provided voluntarily to a country that never asked for it ?

 

So what about the same demand from Laos, although of course much smaller scale. So that the Americans could undertake their carpet bombing strategy, which proved futile, they upgraded te existing track from Khon Kaen to Udon Thani ( which prior to that was virtually undrivable ) and built the Udon Thani aerodrome to allow their bombing sorties to have a greater range into Vietnam. So how long will it be before the Americans re-claim the cost of those works from Thailand ?   it could go on and on.  There could also be many counter claims against the Americans I guess.   I wonder if this article is actually correct or is it an interpretation of King Trump's personnel agenda ?

59 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

There must be a complex back story to this.

 

Why is this news now?

Is this US policy for all its nation debtors?

Is this related to Cambodian/Chinese closeness?

How has the debt been dealt with in the intervening 43 years?

 

Without all this information and much more, the story is reliant on emotional rather than reasoned arguments.

 

1. No particular reason except maybe

 

"William Heidt, the US's ambassador in Phnom Penh, said 

"To me, Cambodia does not look like a country that should be in arrears…buildings coming up all over the city, foreign investment coming in, government revenue is rapidly rising,"

 

Cambodia is not a strategic US partner, so it is time to hit the country just as it is getting on its feet. The US does not care.

 

2. Yep. Debts have to be paid, except for strategic busines partners.

 

3. ?

 

4. Cambodia has refused to discuss repayment.

 

1 hour ago, whatawonderfulday said:

Moving on to present day this article is now claiming that the US want the costs refunded that they provided voluntarily to a country that never asked for it ?

 

The US did their usual self-interested tactic.

 

1. Lend money in USD's.

 

2. Insist it is spent on US produce.

 

3. Collect on the debt with interest and enforce sanctions if it is not paid.

 

Sort of having your cake, eating it all, charge for the icing and eating that too.

 

 

Not very accurate if they were trying for the Ho Chi Minh trail

 

Vietnam War era bombing incident[edit]

On August 6, 1973,^[13] during the Cambodian Civil War and Vietnam War, Neak Leung was propelled to the centre of international attention when an American B-52 Stratofortress mistakenly dropped its 20-ton load on the town centre.^[14] At least 137 Cambodians were killed and another 268 were wounded. More than 30 craters stretched for a mile down the main street and a third of the town was completely destroyed while another third was heavily damaged. Neak Leung market and a large army barracks in the town were also destroyed.^[15] This incident was depicted by director Roland Joffé in his 1984 film The Killing Fields.

Why didn't Cambodia sue USA for all the bombing done to their country.....

From the OP>>>

"The debt started out as a US$274 million loan mostly for food supplies to the then US-backed Lon Nol government but has almost doubled over the years as Cambodia refused to enter into a re-payment program"

 

Ain't surprising the Cambo government needed food relief when the US was carpet bombing the countryside. However, also from the OP link>>>

 

A diplomat posted in Phnom Penh between 1971 and 1974 told Fairfax Media the food the US supplied Cambodia came from excess food stocks.

"I remember well that shipments of maize were made," he said. "Cambodians do not eat maize so it was fed to the animals."

 

 

1 hour ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

1. No particular reason except maybe

 

"William Heidt, the US's ambassador in Phnom Penh, said 

"To me, Cambodia does not look like a country that should be in arrears…buildings coming up all over the city, foreign investment coming in, government revenue is rapidly rising,"

 

Cambodia is not a strategic US partner, so it is time to hit the country just as it is getting on its feet. The US does not care.

 

2. Yep. Debts have to be paid, except for strategic busines partners.

 

3. ?

 

4. Cambodia has refused to discuss repayment.

 

Thanks for reproducing the information in the article. Without your deep insight into this issue, I would have remained in ignorance. I really appreciate your knowledgeable contribution.

It appears the Cambodians owe three times that much to the Russians, the Cambodians owe over $2 Billion to the Asian Developement Bank, and a few more bits and pieces to various other countries. When these other debtors 'pardon' Cambo so can then the USA.

Cambodia and Laos should be suing the US for the damage done to their couintries and should pay for the clean up of all unexploded ordnance.

Rightly or wrongly the US government at that time, the same LBJ who allegedly was very involved in the murder of JFK, decided to carpet bomb countries they were not actually at war with. Cambodia and Laos. The reason given was to stop Vietcong and NVA supply lines and bases that existed in those countries.

 

If Russia had ever done anything remotely like that, or China, the Americans would be squealing like stuck pigs about war crimes and demanding this that and the other at the UN.

 

Maybe Cambodia and Laos should consider suing the US for war crimes with their somewhat careless, inaccurate, indiscriminate carpeting bombing of countries they never declared war on. But of course, the US doesn't recognize International Courts, the UN or anyone who says anything it doesn't like.

This is outrageous. Brings to mind the Chinese who are said to charge prisoner for bullet used to execute. Perhaps sue for wrongful death of the two million plus the Khmer Rouge killed. They came into power in part due to US stumble bums invasion...

3 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Rightly or wrongly the US government at that time, the same LBJ who allegedly was very involved in the murder of JFK, decided to carpet bomb countries they were not actually at war with. Cambodia and Laos. The reason given was to stop Vietcong and NVA supply lines and bases that existed in those countries.

 

If Russia had ever done anything remotely like that, or China, the Americans would be squealing like stuck pigs about war crimes and demanding this that and the other at the UN.

 

Maybe Cambodia and Laos should consider suing the US for war crimes with their somewhat careless, inaccurate, indiscriminate carpeting bombing of countries they never declared war on. But of course, the US doesn't recognize International Courts, the UN or anyone who says anything it doesn't like.

If the US did compensate the victims of all the war crimes they committed during their bloody history,  they would be in a state of total bankruptcy.

3 hours ago, whatawonderfulday said:

So have I got this correct.  we know that the North Vietnamese were using the trail through Cambodia as a re-supply line for the VC fighting in the south.  Prior to this the Americans took over the war , voluntarily where the French had left off.

 

In order for the Americans to attempt to stop that re-supply route they voluntarily dropped millions of bombs on Cambodia. Did the Cambodian government at that time request their country to have the shit bombed out of it ?  Moving on to present day this article is now claiming that the US want the costs refunded that they provided voluntarily to a country that never asked for it ?

 

So what about the same demand from Laos, although of course much smaller scale. So that the Americans could undertake their carpet bombing strategy, which proved futile, they upgraded te existing track from Khon Kaen to Udon Thani ( which prior to that was virtually undrivable ) and built the Udon Thani aerodrome to allow their bombing sorties to have a greater range into Vietnam. So how long will it be before the Americans re-claim the cost of those works from Thailand ?   it could go on and on.  There could also be many counter claims against the Americans I guess.   I wonder if this article is actually correct or is it an interpretation of King Trump's personnel agenda ?

I just watched a u tube documentary today on Laos. Stated twice as many bombs were dropped there.

21 minutes ago, Bonefish said:

If the US did compensate the victims of all the war crimes they committed during their bloody history,  they would be in a state of total bankruptcy.

 

Yep. But they normally make huge profits out of their allies. As they did in WW1 and WW11. 

51 minutes ago, retarius said:

Cambodia and Laos should be suing the US for the damage done to their couintries and should pay for the clean up of all unexploded ordnance.

You forgot to mention Vietnam, Iraq, Somalia, Libya, Syria....

14 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Yep. But they normally make huge profits out of their allies. As they did in WW1 and WW11. 

So right you are.

4 hours ago, Syduan said:

It means the US is on the brink of A huge financial crash.

 

Wont to bet ,hot shot ? This is just an intimidation to push the Cambodian government into a more US favorable position here in Asia  with the help of Cambodia. Hey Hot Shot, The US spends $500,million on fuel flying their military aircraft in a year.

Edited March 13, 20179 yr by sanukjim

Really that's interesting. So interesting I just googled it and sorry I was wrong in my initial statement that you picked up. From Google:

 

From 1964 to 1973, the U.S. dropped more than two million tons of ordnance on Laos during 580,000 bombing missions—equal to a planeload of bombs every 8 minutes, 24-hours a day, for 9 years - making Laos the most heavily bombed country per capita in history.

 

So by the same logic they may well be asked to pay back to the US far more than the Cambodians !!! What an appalling record by the US though

2 minutes ago, whatawonderfulday said:

Really that's interesting. So interesting I just googled it and sorry I was wrong in my initial statement that you picked up. From Google:

 

From 1964 to 1973, the U.S. dropped more than two million tons of ordnance on Laos during 580,000 bombing missions—equal to a planeload of bombs every 8 minutes, 24-hours a day, for 9 years - making Laos the most heavily bombed country per capita in history.

 

So by the same logic they may well be asked to pay back to the US far more than the Cambodians !!! What an appalling record by the US though

What is your idea of  plane load of bombs ? The time in the air during this time sounds impossible.For The US their bombing missions were from 1964 until early February.1973 .

2 minutes ago, sanukjim said:

What is your idea of  plane load of bombs ? The time in the air during this time sounds impossible.For The US their bombing missions were from 1964 until early February.1973 .

Well guess if they were flying from Udon Thani ,flying time is minimal

5 hours ago, maoro2013 said:

$US500 million ($662 million)

What does this mean?

It means that Trump is starting to try and collect on old outstanding bills. Forget the loss of life incurred or property destroyed in Cambodia. Collateral damage. Sure takes big ones to try and call this one in. How to make friends and influence people not the Donalds strong suit. Only American lives matter I guess. Have not heard much from the Black Lives matter movement. 

5 hours ago, Briggsy said:

How has the debt been dealt with in the intervening 43 years?

 

A room full of bean counters calculating interest. 

4 hours ago, Briggsy said:

There must be a complex back story to this.

 

Why is this news now?

Is this US policy for all its nation debtors?

Is this related to Cambodian/Chinese closeness?

How has the debt been dealt with in the intervening 43 years?

 

Without all this information and much more, the story is reliant on emotional rather than reasoned arguments.

Who cares? How can Cambodia owe anything to a bunch of psychopaths who bombed back to the Stone Age and opened the door to a rogue regime which butchered two million Cambodians?

 

This isn't a matter of emotion v reason but of morality - a virtue clearly lacking among the leaders of the world's most aggressive and destructive superpower - but not, mercifully, among most people around the planet who, like me, will read this story with anger and incredulity.

Just now, Krataiboy said:

Who cares? How can Cambodia owe anything to a bunch of psychopaths who bombed back to the Stone Age and opened the door to a rogue regime which butchered two million Cambodians?

 

This isn't a matter of emotion v reason but of morality - a virtue clearly lacking among the leaders of the world's most aggressive and destructive superpower - but not, mercifully, among most people around the planet who, like me, will read this story with anger and incredulity.

Interesting similarities there based on your text between Cambodia then and Iraq later.  Both countries bombed like hell allowing rogue regimes to prosper.  Now there is a clear illustration that the US never learns anything.  Hopefully Trump won't try the same failed tactics in Iran !!