8 hours ago, Pikeybkk said:

One mans terrorist us another mans freedom fighter. You dont want people bombing your country, dont invade theirs. 

you might want to relay that message to Americans!

 

The problem with McGuinness is that being a Roman Catholic he believed in absolution. That means you can be a murderous bas***d and take the lives of innocent women and children and when you have your visions of being a 'statesman' you can go to a priest, do 10 hail Mary's, say sorry and at that point believe totally that God has forgiven all your sins. Sorry it doesn't work like that. If your God is true McGuinness, I guess its getting a bit warm in there now.

16 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

RIP.

 

I loathed him along with all IRA and their supporters. But he, like Ian Paisley, showed that people can change and can work together for the better good. 

He made no excuses for his past, nor did he try and hide it. But he did apologies, unlike many who refuse to, and admit that decisions made at that time now seem wrong looking backwards. He and Paisley formed a formidable working relationship.

Over the last few years he became one of the few sensible voices in British politics. 

 

RIP indeed Martin.

Been part of an organization that openly bragged about murdering innocent civilians which he could well have done himself is something that deserves no respect IMHO. I disagree he did try and hide his past because if not he would be in prison for the punishment beating he regularly dished out. How ironic Tont Blair praises him. He is another person who should be in jail for all those he allowed to be murdered in Iraq under his orders.

14 hours ago, Kiwiken said:

One mans Terrorist is another's Freedom Fighter. It was the willingness in the end of people like Mc Guinness and Paisley to set aside their personal hatred that Lead to the Peace accords. All sides committed wrongs. Irish Unity will come about by Political dialogue and not the will of the Gun or warped Religious thinking.

never apologised for their killing though did they , they can rot in hell ,only hope Blair joins them soon 

7 hours ago, oldgent said:

I have to say that i,m shocked at the comments by members of this forum

who in my opinion are armchair critics that know absolutely nothing about

the 30+ years of troubles in Northern Ireland, Let the man rest in peace

I have a simple view on this , it has never changed. However righteous the cause , the slaughter of innocent civilians is NEVER justified , those responsible are sub human and deserve nothing but scorn.

Edited March 22, 20179 yr by joecoolfrog

Terror and peace: Martin McGuinness’s divisive legacy.

For anyone my age, the death of Martin McGuinness brings very mixed feelings. We grew up to a backdrop of bombs and bullets in British cities, directed by this man, his allies and their vicious paramilitary forces. It is easy to forget that the Irish Republican Army brought far worse terror to our streets than today’s Islamist fanatics, with cowardly attacks on pubs and politicians as well as the soldiers they claimed to be fighting. Yet this same person stepped back from violence and helped bring about a remarkable peace settlement.

https://capx.co/terror-and-peace-martin-mcguinnesss-divisive-legacy/

11 hours ago, Pikeybkk said:

One mans terrorist us another mans freedom fighter. You dont want people bombing your country, dont invade theirs. 

 One of the major problems in N.I. Was the ignorance of some Americans.

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1212552822176290&id=794492093982367

I, like many others here, grew up during 'The Troubles' in England. I can still remember the dull thud of the bomb that the Official IRA planted in Aldershot in the early 70's. It was an awful time dominating the news with an ongoing cycle of seemingly intractable violence. Whilst I have no sympathy for the IRA, loyalist paramilitary organizations were just as bad - remember it was the UVF who bombed Dublin killing many innocent civilians. The RUC and the army were also guilty of terrible crimes.

 

A lot of mainland Brits are very ignorant regarding the history of Northern Ireland. In the 1960's the catholics had a genuine grievance. The later life of McGuiness ultimately proves that violence was never going to be the solution.       

Where ever they all are, all together.With Dave Allen in the mix and a few bottles of Jamesons, no doubt the sparks will continue to fly.

Still miss you Dave.

2 hours ago, i claudius said:

never apologised for their killing though did they , they can rot in hell ,only hope Blair joins them soon 

Quote from Martin McGuinness is as follows : “The fact is this tragedy was caused by republicans.  The reality of republicans’ responsibility for it; the grief and heartache created for the bereaved; and, their understandable feelings about what happened must be acknowledged.” (Shankhill bombing)

 

“I endorse that apology and the apology made to all innocent victims by the IRA many years ago. "

 

"It is absolutely heartbreaking that we have been through almost 100 years of partition in the North, decade after decade of conflict – and a very bitter conflict that lasted 25 years in which an awful lot of people lost their lives. How could you not be sorry that all that happened?
But if people are going to say sorry, then everybody should say it collectively, in my mind. And that includes the British government. The British government cannot exclude themselves from the debate that we’re seeking to have which I think will be good for all of us. We have come a long way, but there is still an awful long way to go."
 

Two inflammatory off topic posts have been removed.

3 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Been part of an organization that openly bragged about murdering innocent civilians which he could well have done himself is something that deserves no respect IMHO. I disagree he did try and hide his past because if not he would be in prison for the punishment beating he regularly dished out. How ironic Tont Blair praises him. He is another person who should be in jail for all those he allowed to be murdered in Iraq under his orders.

Openly bragged????? source please.

 

"It is absolutely heartbreaking that we have been through almost 100 years of partition in the North, decade after decade of conflict – and a very bitter conflict that lasted 25 years in which an awful lot of people lost their lives. How could you not be sorry that all that happened?
But if people are going to say sorry, then everybody should say it collectively, in my mind. And that includes the British government. The British government cannot exclude themselves from the debate that we’re seeking to have which I think will be good for all of us. We have come a long way, but there is still an awful long way to go." Quote Martin McGuinness.
 

Off topic and response to a previously removed post have been removed.

16 minutes ago, thequietman said:

Openly bragged????? source please.

 

"It is absolutely heartbreaking that we have been through almost 100 years of partition in the North, decade after decade of conflict – and a very bitter conflict that lasted 25 years in which an awful lot of people lost their lives. How could you not be sorry that all that happened?
But if people are going to say sorry, then everybody should say it collectively, in my mind. And that includes the British government. The British government cannot exclude themselves from the debate that we’re seeking to have which I think will be good for all of us. We have come a long way, but there is still an awful long way to go." Quote Martin McGuinness.
 

I served in NI. So I can tell you. He was hardly going to write a column in the paper now was he.

Edited March 22, 20179 yr by Laughing Gravy

May he Rot in Hell


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

2 minutes ago, thequietman said:

So.......... we are expected to take the word of an ex British soldier based in Ireland???  I lived there for 36 years. Who do you think knows better.

Anyone who lived/served in NI and I have a very, very large friend base still on both sides of the border know about Martin McGuinness and the IRA, which I said if you read it,  he supported an organization that openly bragged about murdering people. Which was the IRA. Are you saying the IRA didn't brag about killing/murdering people? If so there is nothing more to discuss.

20 hours ago, thequietman said:

Martin McGuinness was a freedom fighter and fought for the return of Ireland to the Irish people. It was his right as an Irish man to reclaim his country back by whatever means. His death is a sad day for Ireland and Irish people and for those of you who wish to see the death of Gerry Adams, I hope and trust he will outlast all of you.

Try reading up on Irish history to see why Martin McGuiness fought for what I know to be right.

 

Rest in Peace Martin McGuinness.  "I haven't done anything I am ashamed of."

 

Wow ! I did not realise that he was doing that - I thought he was committing terrorist atrocities and treason by fighting against Her Majesty's Govt on UK soil, ie. Northern Ireland ! (Not Ireland).

Once again, this is not about the historic "troubles" in Ireland.

 

Good

No one can deny that McGuinness turned his back on violence and murder to seek a peaceful resolution to the troubles.

 

No one can deny that had he and Adams, and those on the Unionist side, not done so then there would have been no peace agreement and the violence and murder would almost certainly still be continuing today.

 

Whether he did so due to his conscience or political expediency, only he knows.

 

Interviewed on BBC Newsnight last night (Tuesday), Austin Stack*, whose father, an Irish prison officer, was murdered by the IRA in 1983, said that McGuinness had been approached many times by himself and the families of other IRA victims in efforts to arrange meetings with him.

 

He said that McGuinness never responded to written requests for meetings from victim's families and when confronted in person by victim's families turned his back and walked away.

 

Why?

 

There is also the matter of the disappeared; four of whose bodies are still missing.

 

Both McGuinness and Adams were at one time high enough in the IRA hierarchy to easily find out where these bodies are buried; to give the families the comfort of burying their loved ones. Yet they have never done so and did not assist in the recovery of those bodies that have been recovered.

 

Why?

 

*Rather ironically, another Austin Stack (7 December 1879 – 27 April 1929) was first a member of the Irish Republican Brotherhood and later the Irish Volunteers, taking an active part in the Easter rising. He opposed the Anglo-Irish Treaty of 1921, and fought in the subsequent Irish civil war on the Republican side.

17 hours ago, 7by7 said:

No one can deny that McGuinness turned his back on violence and murder to seek a peaceful resolution to the troubles.

 

No one can deny that had he and Adams, and those on the Unionist side, not done so then there would have been no peace agreement and the violence and murder would almost certainly still be continuing today.

 

Whether he did so due to his conscience or political expediency, only he knows.

 

Interviewed on BBC Newsnight last night (Tuesday), Austin Stack*, whose father, an Irish prison officer, was murdered by the IRA in 1983, said that McGuinness had been approached many times by himself and the families of other IRA victims in efforts to arrange meetings with him.

 

He said that McGuinness never responded to written requests for meetings from victim's families and when confronted in person by victim's families turned his back and walked away.

 

Why?

 

There is also the matter of the disappeared; four of whose bodies are still missing.

 

Both McGuinness and Adams were at one time high enough in the IRA hierarchy to easily find out where these bodies are buried; to give the families the comfort of burying their loved ones. Yet they have never done so and did not assist in the recovery of those bodies that have been recovered.

 

Why?

 

*Rather ironically, another Austin Stack (7 December 1879 – 27 April 1929) was first a member of the Irish Republican Brotherhood and later the Irish Volunteers, taking an active part in the Easter rising. He opposed the Anglo-Irish Treaty of 1921, and fought in the subsequent Irish civil war on the Republican side.

I think the message today as the they bury McGuinness  is a call from the families of the disappeared is to let them bury their loved ones too... 

It is only through the actions of people like McGuinness and Adams that seemingly intractable conflicts like the Irish troubles are solved. To make what were considered unthinkable concessions in order to bring peace deserve some credit.

 

Their motivations or even their unwillingness to express regret for past actions are besides the point  in the "big picture ". They were never going to make everyone on either side completely happy, but a peace was brought about and in the long run that is really all that matters.

 

McGuinness' passing is just another step in a continuing process towards that peace.

TH  

Thousands of mourners are expected at McGuiness's funeral today.

 

Most of them are mourning their family members who were murdered on McGuiness's orders, and also to make sure he is dead.

 

Waving the flag in support of terrorism at the funeral are the usual suspects: Bill Clinton, and the BBC, which never met a terrorist it didn't like, as long as the terrorist was anti-British. The BBC is even live-streaming the event, in a supreme display of contempt for the majority of its viewers.

....the icing on the cake will be if they allow balaclava-clad oiks to 'ND' (Negligent Discharge) over the coffin & stash the guns (that they apparently no longer have) in a pram again afterwards 

From today's Telegraph:
SIR – Your obituary states that Martin McGuinness left a widow. In fact, he left hundreds of widows.

Thousands of mourners are expected at McGuiness's funeral today.
 
Most of them are mourning their family members who were murdered on McGuiness's orders, and also to make sure he is dead.
 
Waving the flag in support of terrorism at the funeral are the usual suspects: Bill Clinton, and the BBC, which never met a terrorist it didn't like, as long as the terrorist was anti-British. The BBC is even live-streaming the event, in a supreme display of contempt for the majority of its viewers.

What abject nonsense.

1 hour ago, vogie said:

From today's Telegraph:
SIR – Your obituary states that Martin McGuinness left a widow. In fact, he left hundreds of widows.

And I wonder where he's gone.

 

 

Loved Steve Coogan's take on this way back on the Day Today..

 

 

8 hours ago, thaihome said:

It is only through the actions of people like McGuinness and Adams that seemingly intractable conflicts like the Irish troubles are solved. To make what were considered unthinkable concessions in order to bring peace deserve some credit.

Plus, of course, Paisley and others on the Unionist side; McGuinness and Adams cannot take all the credit; and to be fair haven't tried to.

 

8 hours ago, thaihome said:

Their motivations or even their unwillingness to express regret for past actions are besides the point  in the "big picture ". They were never going to make everyone on either side completely happy, but a peace was brought about and in the long run that is really all that matters.

Maybe so.

 

But telling the families of the disappeared where their loved one's bodies were so that they could recover them and gain some closure would have shown a compassion both McGuinness and Adams were unwilling to show.

 

Remember, the disappeared weren't Unionists, weren't Protestants; they were Catholics the IRA disapproved of for some reason.

 

19 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

What abject nonsense.

 

No, its disgustingly typical of the BBC News today, especially the World Service out of Singapore.