Safest way to normalise high Blood Pressure

laislica · March 22, 2017

In my early 40’s my blood pressure was seen as a little high.

The nurse at work said that it was marginal for needing medication.

However, my GP prescribed 100mg Atenalol and the numbers fell from 139/95 to the ideal of 120/80.

Some 15 years later I went on a 6 week juice diet to detox and I lost 25Kg.

During this time, I observed that my BP started to become too low so I only took half the pill.

As I lost more weight and became healthier, my BP continued to be too low so I took a quarter of the pill, eventually only a fifth.

I visited my GP and discussed this with him.

He told me to stop taking Atenalol because 20mg was not a therapeutic dose, and congratulations.

It seems that I had changed my life style, lost the excessive weight, got healthier so my body Fixed itself!

Well since then (almost 30 years ago), I’ve remarried and gained some excess fat so my BP is a bit high again.

My current GP wants me to take medication to lower the numbers.

But, I’ve just read that Atenalol only lowers the numbers but does nothing to lower the risk of heart attack or stroke.

In fact there is a study that shows that 800,000 deaths have occurred in Europe over the last five years due to prescribed Atenalol!

Does anyone have any thoughts about what I should to regain my health?

I eat many vegetables, a little chicken and some fresh fruit.

Should I go back to juicing or smoothies to speed up the weight loss?

At 75, things that were easy at 40 seem a lot more difficult now!

Sheryl · March 22, 2017

Weight loss will certainly lower your blood pressure, if you are able to do it.

If you smoke, stop. If you drink a lot of caffeine, reduce that.

These measures plus regular exercise are the best initial approach

The exercise does not have to mean a gym, just be more physically active on a regular basis

It is harder to lose weight at an older age, and your body will be less forgiving of things like fasting. Vegetables, a little chicken and some fresh fruit will not be what has put the weight on, though. Examine your carb intake, and that includes beer or other alcohol if any.

laislica · March 23, 2017

Many thanks.

My weight is now about 75.5Kg (naked and breathing out lol).

It was hovering up to about 80Kg but I am not a muscular build so my %fat may still be close to 30%.

I stopped smoking about 45 years ago but I usually drink several cups of coffee daily......

I have a Thai Bicycle, no gears and I ride it for a 20 minute session round the block, more or less daily but it is very flat where we live.

I do not eat bread, potatoes, rice, cheese, milk (though I use the Nestle coffee mate).

I avoid any processed foods like sausages and street food.

In my veggies I do not use any sauces, no MSG and only a little locally made sea salt and we use coconut oil and there is usually some fresh turmeric in the mix.

I eat plenty of raw garlic with every meal.

I have almost totally cut out beer and drink very little spirits.

I do however have a very enlarged prostate and take Lopress for that. (My Dad had prostate problems)

The Lopress also lowers BP but I have been reading that medications that lower BP can actually have death as a side effect and lower numbers don't cure heart disease.

Since my PSA results are in the high end of normal, I am now starting to think I might be better off with no medication????

My Cancer Markers are:-
Prostate marker 1.97 ng/ml (0-4)
Liver Marker 5.08 ng/ml (0-9)

So despite having :-

Multiple cysts in both hepatic lobes, more at left lobe.
About 4 lesions at left lobe, of which the largest one seen at lateral segment at subcapsular area showing lobulated contour and tihn septation, about 5.1x3.3 cm. The rest are up to 3.4 cm in maximal dimension.
A lobulated 1.3-cm one with septation at segment VIII.
A 0.9-c, one at segment VI.
A 0.4-cm gallbladder polyp.
A 2.3-cm poorly calcified gallstone.
A 0.9-cm CBD stone with mild dilated proximal CBD (1.0 cm).
A 0.8-cm cortical cyst at lower pole of right kidney.
Few cortical scars at left kidney.
Markedly enlarged prostate gland, 83 ml.

(Sorry about the translation)

I consider it's not too bad for 75 years old and if I continue with my diet and lose those last few pounds, some of the aforementioned problems may actually start to bet better?

The blood tests were a little dissapointing as they only showed the total cholesterol without the split for HDH and LDL so they are not a lot of use.

muskoka · March 23, 2017

I am 70 this year, 5 months ago I was diagnosed with a heart condition and high blood pressure which I have had off and on for decades. The list of drugs I was issued was shocking, but I went along with them (3 different heart specialists) for a while. Due to bad side effects and a lot of research I have eliminated them all except a mini aspirin daily. The last one I dropped was Atenalol (generic for Prenolol) two weeks ago. My blood pressure spiked for 3-4 days after, then settled back to more normal levels.

Here is how out of touch many doctors are as all 3 of them confirmed I should continue taking Atenalol (generic for Prenolol) when research has proved it kills more than it cures. I am using lifestyle changes instead of drugs, not saying this is the right thing to do but it is my choice.

Quote

Lancet. 2004 Nov 6-12;364(9446):1684-9.

Atenolol in hypertension: is it a wise choice?

...Our meta-analysis showed a significantly higher mortality (1.13 [1.02-1.25]) with atenolol treatment than with other active treatment, in the five studies comprising 17671 patients who were followed up for a mean of 4.6 years. Moreover, cardiovascular mortality also tended to be higher with atenolol treatment than with other antihypertensive treatment. Stroke was also more frequent with atenolol treatment.

INTERPRETATION:

Our results cast doubts on atenolol as a suitable drug for hypertensive patients. Moreover, they challenge the use of atenolol as a reference drug in outcome trials in hypertension.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15530629

We are on our own and must do our own research IMO.

Doug

Sheryl · March 23, 2017

" medications that lower BP can actually have death as a side effect " - pretty much any medication will have rare cases of death associated, the key word is "rare" and usually there are specific risk factors like allergy.

You need to be careful about what you read and do not accept sweeping statements as fact, these are almost always oversimplified and misleading.

" lower numbers don't cure heart disease. " - they can however prevent it as well as prevent devastating stroke

Normal or near normal PSA reading does not mean no need for prostate medication, that would depend on how symptomatic you are without medication (difficulty with urination). Lopress (prazosin) does indeed lower BP so if you were to stop it yours would likely rise, possibly way too much. If you stop it you may find it necessary to then take something else for BP. And, of course, the urinary difficulty you started it for may recur.

If you lose a little weight your BP may improve, especially if it is now just borderline high. It will not do anything for the other health issues mentioned. Cutting down the coffee would also help your BP (or maybe mix it with decaf 1/2 and 1/2?).

Sheryl · March 23, 2017

23 minutes ago, muskoka said:

I am 70 this year, 5 months ago I was diagnosed with a heart condition and high blood pressure which I have had off and on for decades. The list of drugs I was issued was shocking, but I went along with them (3 different heart specialists) for a while. Due to bad side effects and a lot of research I have eliminated them all except a mini aspirin daily. The last one I dropped was Atenalol (generic for Prenolol) two weeks ago. My blood pressure spiked for 3-4 days after, then settled back to more normal levels.

Here is how out of touch many doctors are as all 3 of them confirmed I should continue taking Atenalol (generic for Prenolol) when research has proved it kills more than it cures. I am using lifestyle changes instead of drugs, not saying this is the right thing to do but it is my choice.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15530629

We are on our own and must do our own research IMO.

Doug

Always good to do your own research. But in a case like this I would also suggest changing doctors and putting a lot of research into doctor selection. Atenolol has not been recommended as initial treatment for hypertension for about a decade now.

This is a good overview of current recommendations https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg127/chapter/1-Guidance#initiating-and-monitoring-antihypertensive-drug-treatment-including-blood-pressure-targets-2

meatboy · March 23, 2017

after having a new wife,i had to have a double by-pass and a new aota heart valve.still on meds.for life.

so i see you to have had a new wife HMMMMMMMM.

laislica · March 23, 2017

50 minutes ago, muskoka said:

I am 70 this year, 5 months ago I was diagnosed with a heart condition and high blood pressure which I have had off and on for decades. The list of drugs I was issued was shocking, but I went along with them (3 different heart specialists) for a while. Due to bad side effects and a lot of research I have eliminated them all except a mini aspirin daily. The last one I dropped was Atenalol (generic for Prenolol) two weeks ago. My blood pressure spiked for 3-4 days after, then settled back to more normal levels.

Here is how out of touch many doctors are as all 3 of them confirmed I should continue taking Atenalol (generic for Prenolol) when research has proved it kills more than it cures. I am using lifestyle changes instead of drugs, not saying this is the right thing to do but it is my choice.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15530629

We are on our own and must do our own research IMO.

Doug

I agree that we must do our own research BUT.....

The major pharma companies have hijacked health care.

There is a study that shows than most of the current and PUBLISHED Scientific Papers are false.

The way it works is like this:

Become ill and visit a Dr.

The Dr prescribes a pill or two to suppress the symptoms.

Visit the Dr with new symptoms and get additional meds.

Visit the DR with new symptoms and get meds to counter the side effects of other meds, and new meds.

Nothing is done to establish what made you ill in the first place.

In my case, I was put on Atenalol with no follow up, and no mention of the fact that if I changed my lifestyle, I could be cured.....

So after 15 years of taking prescribed drugs, the problem was still there but only suppressed!

The second Dr explained that Dr's should explain that lifestyle changes could fix the problem but he said that most people just want to take a pill.

This thinking must change IMHO.

We should take responsibility for our own health.

The prime reasons for sickness is diet and lifestyle, therefore that should be addresses first.

Pharma drugs should be the last call, not the first or indeed only course of action.

Big Pharma own the medical profession:

They sponsor the Universities and control what Dr's are taught.

We have no long term studies about the effects of GMO's and Monsanto's Glycophosphate Roundup.

There was a study on rats that went on a little longer than the normal 90 day study and the subjects grew many cancers but such studies can be suppressed or labeled as Quackery.

Dr's are not taught about nutrition, not taught that modern farming methods create food that does not have the same nutrition as it did when I was a lad.

Antibiotics are a straightforward part of the animal food chain.

Cows are fed Grain, Corn and protein from other animals - how is this healthy and no wonder we are sick?

Many countries follow the USA, big mistake IMHO.

There the FDA allows the drug manufacturers to do the studies to show that their drugs are safe....

They don't insist that the results of ALL studies are published.......

Big Pharma is out of control and can't be trusted. (Medical insurance companies don't help either)

They even tried to show that vitamin supplements are dangerous (but couldn't).

Why would they do that?
Could it be that vitamin C, D, B etc are great at keeping people healthy and therefore not needing to buy expensive Pharma drugs?

I'd go so far as to suggest that Science has also been hijacked and it can no longer be trusted.

Back in the day, Dr's shared their stories of what they did that worked/didn't work and other's followed these examples, and it worked.

Now Science is being used to stop this anecdotal behaviour.

Dr's can be struck off for failing to follow the guidelines set up by Big Pharma.

All big Pharma has to do is to call such a Dr as dangerous and a quack and the damage is done and they are back in control.

Should I also mention vaccines and laws being passed to force people to have them?

But that is yet another controversial subject that we should not openly discuss......

KittenKong · March 23, 2017

21 hours ago, laislica said:

At 75, things that were easy at 40 seem a lot more difficult now!

21 hours ago, laislica said:

However, my GP prescribed 100mg Atenalol and the numbers fell from 139/95 ....

My BP hasn't been that low in 20 years, and I'm 61 now.

At 75 my father had been dead for 3 years and my mother for 9.

You're doing well.

laislica · March 23, 2017

26 minutes ago, meatboy said:

after having a new wife,i had to have a double by-pass and a new aota heart valve.still on meds.for life.

so i see you to have had a new wife HMMMMMMMM.

he he, we passed our fourth anniversary last month.

Is that new enough?

It's a begger getting old is it not LOL

Good luck with the new bits, I suppose it's anti rejection drugs and nowt you can do about that.

It's not that I am against Dr's, veggies ain't gonna fix a broken leg !!!

It's the unfair manipulation of the medical profession by the big companies that I am against!

All the best to you.

laislica · March 23, 2017

1 minute ago, KittenKong said:

My BP hasn't been that low in 20 years, and I'm 61 now.

At 75 my father had been dead for 3 years and my mother for 9.

You're doing well.

Thank you.

All my Mum's family died by mid 50's but she made it to 86!

She asked me why she was still alive.

I said, just to show her children that we didn't have to worry about dying early.

I remember that at about 49, she was very sad and depressed because she thought that her death was imminent.....

I have studied nutrition and health for about 45 years. I created a database in 78 of the nutritional values in most common foods.

In my 40's I had a stressful job, worked long hours and had acid reflux like you would not believe.

I took milk of magnesia several times a day but after a while I realised that the anti acids only suppressed the symptoms and long term use does actual harm.

I read up on food combining and changed my eating habits and in a week the problem had gone!

The fix was simple.

The stomach has to be extremely acid to allow the enzyme to process protein so one part of the fix was to increase the acid, not reduce it.

There is a valve at the top of the stomach and it closes if the stomach acid is strong enough.

If the level is low say PH 4 or 5 it stays open.

This allows the reflux and that lower level of acid is quite strong enough to burn the tissue in the esophagus!

Just another example of a "Natural Cure", and actually showing pharma drugs as the villain....

Probably just quackery though eh?

muskoka · March 23, 2017

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Always good to do your own research. But in a case like this I would also suggest changing doctors and putting a lot of research into doctor selection. Atenolol has not been recommended as initial treatment for hypertension for about a decade now.

This is a good overview of current recommendations https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg127/chapter/1-Guidance#initiating-and-monitoring-antihypertensive-drug-treatment-including-blood-pressure-targets-2

I am not blaming you Sheryl, but my case has been reviewed 3 times by 3 different heart specialists since October last year (4 months, 3 specialists) - the last one was recommended by you at Ram in another thread. They all recommended I continue taking Atenolol!!!

Damn drug pushers who either don't do their homework or only care about kick-backs from over prescribing.

Doug

laislica · March 23, 2017

16 minutes ago, muskoka said:

I am not blaming you Sheryl, but my case has been reviewed 3 times by 3 different heart specialists since October last year (4 months, 3 specialists) - the last one was recommended by you at Ram in another thread. They all recommended I continue taking Atenolol!!!

Damn drug pushers who either don't do their homework or only care about kick-backs from over prescribing.

Doug

That may be a tad harsh.

If the Dr was not taught anything other than knowing what pill to prescribe, what else can he/she do?

That is one of my strong points:

Nutrition and lifestyle should be firsl and drugs last!

PS

The link is to a UK NHS report

Edited March 23, 2017 by laislica

mommysboy · March 23, 2017

I'm not sure you ever had high blood pressure enough to warrant medication.

partington · March 23, 2017

15 minutes ago, muskoka said:

I am not blaming you Sheryl, but my case has been reviewed 3 times by 3 different heart specialists since October last year (4 months, 3 specialists) - the last one was recommended by you at Ram in another thread. They all recommended I continue taking Atenolol!!!

Damn drug pushers who either don't do their homework or only care about kick-backs from over prescribing.

Doug

While you are very sensible to want to be prescribed another drug, the paper you referred to does not say what you think it says.

It compares atenolol to other active treatments, and says that atenolol is the worst. It does not say that no treatment at all is better than taking atenolol, and in fact says the studies show that when atenolol is compared with placebo, the risk of stroke is decreased.

So while atenolol seems ineffective compared to other drugs it is not worse than no drug at all: I would rather not have a stroke than have one, even if the stroke doesn't kill me (that is even if the drug has no effect on mortality)!

A lot of the conspiracy theory stuff that will be aired on here is likely irrelevant - the overprescription of outmoded drugs is a reflection of the lack of continuing GP education and reliance on familiar treatments.

New drugs, especially on-patent drugs are much more profitable and Pharma pushes those in preference to pushing old generic ones (atenolol 1976).

Even wiki uses atenolol as an example of physician resistance to change in prescription habits which clinical research has already established as desirable:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atenolol

"Atenolol has been given as an example of how slow healthcare providers are to change their prescribing practices in the face of medical evidence that indicates that a drug is ineffective.^[10] In 2012, 33.8 million prescriptions were written to American patients for this drug.^[10] In 2014, it was in the top (most common) 1% of drugs prescribed to Medicare patients.^[10] Although the number of prescriptions has been declining steadily since the evidence against its efficacy was published, it has been estimated that it would take 20 years for doctors to stop prescribing it for hypertension.^[10]"

laislica · March 23, 2017

4 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

I'm not sure you ever had high blood pressure enough to warrant medication.

As I mentioned, the nurse at work said it was marginal....

Having got it back in my late 50's, I then retired, drank more and gained a lot of weight.

Then it was in the 160-170 / 100-120 and the difference between sys and dia was 60!

So according to any guideline, I definitely got there!

I guess that if I get my body fat below 25%, then it might be low enough, whatever it is....

mommysboy · March 23, 2017

6 minutes ago, laislica said:

As I mentioned, the nurse at work said it was marginal....

Having got it back in my late 50's, I then retired, drank more and gained a lot of weight.

Then it was in the 160-170 / 100-120 and the difference between sys and dia was 60!

So according to any guideline, I definitely got there!

I guess that if I get my body fat below 25%, then it might be low enough, whatever it is....

Yes, that's high blood pressure.

Mine zips around here and there without rhyme and reason.

Walking is a great exercise if you can manage the time, and it doesn't need to be strenuous.

You're cutting out some very important foods here: foods that we arguably need, and that satisfy hunger.

Any diet that does not satisfy is doomed to failure imo.

Edited March 23, 2017 by mommysboy

laislica · March 23, 2017

6 minutes ago, partington said:

While you are very sensible to want to be prescribed another drug, the paper you referred to does not say what you think it says.

It compares atenolol to other active treatments, and says that atenolol is the worst. It does not say that no treatment at all is better than taking atenolol, and in fact says the studies show that when atenolol is compared with placebo, the risk of stroke is decreased.

So while atenolol seems ineffective compared to other drugs it is not worse than no drug at all: I would rather not have a stroke than have one, even if the stroke doesn't kill me (that is even if the drug has no effect on mortality)!

A lot of the conspiracy theory stuff that will be aired on here is likely irrelevant - the overprescription of outmoded drugs is a reflection of the lack of continuing GP education and reliance on familiar treatments.

New drugs, especially on-patent drugs are much more profitable and Pharma pushes those in preference to pushing old generic ones (atenolol 1976).

Even wiki uses atenolol as an example of physician resistance to change in prescription habits which clinical research has already established as desirable:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atenolol

"Atenolol has been given as an example of how slow healthcare providers are to change their prescribing practices in the face of medical evidence that indicates that a drug is ineffective.^[10] In 2012, 33.8 million prescriptions were written to American patients for this drug.^[10] In 2014, it was in the top (most common) 1% of drugs prescribed to Medicare patients.^[10] Although the number of prescriptions has been declining steadily since the evidence against its efficacy was published, it has been estimated that it would take 20 years for doctors to stop prescribing it for hypertension.^[10]"

Agreed, here is an interesting article.

https://www.propublica.org/article/when-evidence-says-no-but-doctors-say-yes

When Evidence Says No, But Doctors Say Yes
Years after research contradicts common practices, patients continue to demand them and doctors continue to deliver.

The result is an epidemic of unnecessary and unhelpful treatment.

My real question is:

Why do the medical universities not teach about nutrition and lifestyle?

I notice that there are many Internet Grus offering health advice and quite a lot of it actually works.

But they are called Quacks......

Back in the 20's-40's William Howard Hay's book was a bible that worked (well it did for my Mum)

but today, food combining is regarded as quackery by many, but I used it to fix my GERD!

laislica · March 23, 2017

4 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Yes, that's high blood pressure.

Mine zips around here and there without rhyme and reason.

Walking is a great exercise if you can manage the time, and it doesn't need to be strenuous.

You're cutting out some very important foods here: foods that we arguably need, and that satisfy hunger.

Any diet that does not satisfy is doomed to failure imo.

Agreed with the walking and I try to do some daily (except for the tropical heat/humidity and the mozzies when it's dark and cooler).

I find my BP reduces somewhat after exercise.

Ten years ago I would have agreed with you: Any diet that does not satisfy is doomed to failure

However, This time I have stuck to this low carb regime for almost half a year and I no longer crave them.

It has been hard to give up the wheat based carbs especially!

I'd say, at least as hard as giving up cigarettes.

With the cigs, I finally cut them out completely, but you can't do that with food.

Sheryl · March 23, 2017

Atenolol has been off patent for eons, doctors still prescribing it is not due to profit motive.

More likely failure to keep up with the professional literature.

muskoka · March 23, 2017

18 minutes ago, partington said:

While you are very sensible to want to be prescribed another drug, the paper you referred to does not say what you think it says.

It compares atenolol to other active treatments, and says that atenolol is the worst. It does not say that no treatment at all is better than taking atenolol, and in fact says the studies show that when atenolol is compared with placebo, the risk of stroke is decreased.

So while atenolol seems ineffective compared to other drugs it is not worse than no drug at all: I would rather not have a stroke than have one, even if the stroke doesn't kill me (that is even if the drug has no effect on mortality)!

A lot of the conspiracy theory stuff that will be aired on here is likely irrelevant - the overprescription of outmoded drugs is a reflection of the lack of continuing GP education and reliance on familiar treatments.

New drugs, especially on-patent drugs are much more profitable and Pharma pushes those in preference to pushing old generic ones (atenolol 1976).

Even wiki uses atenolol as an example of physician resistance to change in prescription habits which clinical research has already established as desirable:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atenolol

"Atenolol has been given as an example of how slow healthcare providers are to change their prescribing practices in the face of medical evidence that indicates that a drug is ineffective.^[10] In 2012, 33.8 million prescriptions were written to American patients for this drug.^[10] In 2014, it was in the top (most common) 1% of drugs prescribed to Medicare patients.^[10] Although the number of prescriptions has been declining steadily since the evidence against its efficacy was published, it has been estimated that it would take 20 years for doctors to stop prescribing it for hypertension.^[10]"

From the same Wikipedia link...

Quote

Antihypertensive therapy with atenolol provides weaker protective action against cardiovascular complications (e.g. myocardial infarction and stroke) compared to other antihypertensive drugs. In some cases, diuretics are superior.^[5] In addition, atenolol has been found to lack mortality benefits^[6]^[7] and even to increase mortality in older adults.^[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atenolol

thus my previous comment Atenolol kills more people than it cures.

Quote

Atenolol use was related to increased mortality in community-dwelling hypertensive Older adults. This increase in mortality risk seems to be related to an increase of pulse arterial pressure.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23581644

partington · March 23, 2017

6 minutes ago, muskoka said:

From the same Wikipedia link...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atenolol

thus my previous comment Atenolol kills more people than it cures.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23581644

That's fine-I was talking about the one paper you quoted-these ones suggest there could be a mortality effect I agree. Certainly atenolol isn't a good drug.

Moonlover · March 23, 2017

My number one rule is: never allow a doctor to take my blood pressure! I'm sure most of you will have heard of the 'white coat syndrome', whereby ones B/P elevates solely due to the anxiety of being there having it taken.

I have my own, good quality, German made monitor and check mine about once a week.

I am 71 and my average readings are 136/80. I put this down to healthy eating, plenty of fruit, veggies chicken and fish. Very little red meat and only a small amount of carbs. Careful with the alcohol and definitely no smoking.

A daily routine of regular exercise. Nothing drastic, I hate gyms! Swimming, walking and Qigong are my favourites. Meditation is also very cool. I have proven that a 20 minute morning session will bring down the B/P by a couple of points.

Personally I believe we should take responsibility for our own health. No doctor knows me as well as I do!

Good luck and good health OP.

mommysboy · March 23, 2017

It strikes me that you have done very well by yourself.

Can you do yoga (chair yoga) and get to a swimming pool for relaxation?

Well done.

mommysboy · March 23, 2017

16 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

My number one rule is: never allow a doctor to take my blood pressure! I'm sure most of you will have heard of the 'white coat syndrome', whereby ones B/P elevates solely due to the anxiety of being there having it taken.

I have my own, good quality, German made monitor and check mine about once a week.

I am 71 and my average readings are 136/80. I put this down to healthy eating, plenty of fruit, veggies chicken and fish. Very little red meat and only a small amount of carbs. Careful with the alcohol and definitely no smoking.

A daily routine of regular exercise. Nothing drastic, I hate gyms! Swimming, walking and Qigong are my favourites. Meditation is also very cool. I have proven that a 20 minute morning session will bring down the B/P by a couple of points.

Personally I believe we should take responsibility for our own health. No doctor knows me as well as I do!

Good luck and good health OP.

Excellent post.

Yes my bp shoots up in the presence of a white coat and medical paraphenalia.

Moonlover · March 23, 2017

I have just returned from my evening walk, which reminded me of a TV programme I'd seen on the BBC a while back. I thought I might share this story with this group.

This was a medical series and the research doctor who headed it up was on a mission to encourage patients to reduce their dependence on medications.

In one of the episodes, he gathered a group of about 20 patients all of whom had at least one of these 3 common ailments. Hypertension, high cholesterol. or T2 diabetes. Some had more than one.

He recorded all of their readings and then had them carry out this simple exercise regime. He had them walk for 30 minutes per day, 5 days a week, for 1 month. They walked in groups to encourage each other.

At the end of the period he took their readings once again. Every single one of them showed improvements in their condition, some to the degree that they felt confident enough to withdraw from medication all together.

The doctor believes that these issues are not medical conditions at all, they are lifestyle related conditions. The message is clear don't you think?

Taggart · March 23, 2017

I was first diagnosed as having high blood pressure in my late 20's. I didn't do anything about it. I'm now 67. I was told by a doctor about fifteen years ago that if I continued with my lifestyle, that I'd eventually have to have a pacemaker inserted. So far, hasn't happened. I made some very minor changes, and that was about it. Just over two years ago I found that whenever I ate my beloved deep fried battered fish and chips, along with a cola drink to wash it down, I would get a lot of pressure in my chest area. One time the pressure and pain got so bad, I had my wife take me to emergency. They did a few tests, didn't find anything, gave me a couple of low dose aspirin and sent me home. My MD sent me for a heart scan and then a stress test. Nothing found. A few months later I tried an order of fish & chips again. Same thing, pressure on the chest area. That was the last deep fried fish I've had. I've replaced the daily sugary drink (coke) with sparkling water. Around the same time I was on two prescription medicines for high BP, both generic I believe. Candesartan 8 MG, and Indapamide 1,25 mg. About a year ago due to lifestyle changes the doctor told me to stop taking the Indapamide. At it's worst my Systolic reading is in the low 130's (usually in the morning) and at it's best around 110-115. My Diastolic reading nowadays is always below 80, sometimes as low as 65. I hope one day to get off the Candesartan altogether.

meatboy · March 24, 2017

18 hours ago, laislica said:

he he, we passed our fourth anniversary last month.

Is that new enough?

It's a begger getting old is it not LOL

Good luck with the new bits, I suppose it's anti rejection drugs and nowt you can do about that.

It's not that I am against Dr's, veggies ain't gonna fix a broken leg !!!

It's the unfair manipulation of the medical profession by the big companies that I am against!

All the best to you.

ONLY 4YRS your still on honeymoon.we have just past our 27th.anniversary and i wont see 71again.

getting old frightens me as i am enjoying my life.i have made 2short visits,but i was sent back[not ready]

muskoka · March 24, 2017

Excellent article

Quote

When Evidence Says No, But Doctors Say Yes

Years after research contradicts common practices, patients continue to demand them and doctors continue to deliver. The result is an epidemic of unnecessary and unhelpful treatment.

by David Epstein, ProPublica February 22, 2017

https://www.propublica.org/article/when-evidence-says-no-but-doctors-say-yes

laislica · March 24, 2017

Thanks for your input to this thread.

This morning I have a glass of lemon juice in warm water.

No coffee.....

It seems to me that the role of Dr's has changed over the years.

When I was a lad their tool box was full of food, herbs, tinctures and the like along with scalpels etc, very little in the way of pharmaceutical medicines.

Now, it seems technology has turned them into people who can classify symptoms and prescribe an appropriate pharma drug to suppress the symptoms for as long as possible.

Who remembers Fennings Fever Cure, it contained quinine and was bitter as hell but it seemed to work!

Back then medicine usually tasted terrible, remember being dosed with castor oil?

Our Dr recommended a one day fast per week!

There is no doubt that technology has provided huge benefits, antibiotics etc but they quickly became the panacea for all things and are misused.

We have produced drug resistant bacteria and the clock is winding back to the days that going to a hospital killed you because of the infection you got there along with the surgery!

The answer is clear to me:

Buy the best, organic food possible and consume much of it raw.

Plenty of daily gently exercise. No sitting down for hours at a time, get up, move around.

8 hours of good quality sleep.

Live without stress, if necessary, change your job.

Choose your partner well, aim to make them happy, that's the way to become happy.

Have three points of view;

1) Your own, based on your own thoughts and ideas.

2) that of a 3rd party whose view is from afar looking at the pair of you.
3) From your partners point of view.

Constantly check that ill is good for your partner and yourself.

Don't take each other for granted, relationships take work.

Cheers

Edited March 24, 2017 by laislica

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When Evidence Says No, But Doctors Say Yes

Years after research contradicts common practices, patients continue to demand them and doctors continue to deliver. The result is an epidemic of unnecessary and unhelpful treatment.

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